I think my 30 year marriage is over

[tim55]

Hi every body,

This is my first post and I'm not sure if this is the right place for what is going on. I guess I'll just put up my story and see what happens.

I was discovered betraying my wife of 30 plus years through the use of internet pornography, by my 18 year old daughter. That was about 4 months ago. Many would say I was addicted, I'm still not sure if that is right or not. Since then I have done pretty well dealing with that side of the problem. Through some counselling, reconnecting with my faith and involvement with a 12 step program, I am "sober" since discovery. I have lied and deceived even after discovery trying to minimise what I had done. The full truth all came out about 2 weeks ago.

My wife and I have been on a roller coaster about what will happen with our marriage. At the moment it looks as though our marriage will end. I am currently living out of the family home and pretty well every interaction I have with my wife upsets her peace. I don't think she is on the road to any healing; that is now just about out of my hands. Any suggestion I make is rejected vehemently.

Its now becoming clear that I will not be spending Christmas with my family. Having me in the house is just the catalyst for my wife's pain and hurt, leading to anger that just spills over our adult children. So I expect to stay away.

I have no family where I am living, although, I have cut myself off from them. My father was a verbally abusive man who introduced me to pornography. I have some support through a church, however, he will be out of the city from tomorrow and has a family of his own to care for. So I am staring at the likelihood of being alone for Christmas. One of the characteristics of an addict is pushing people away and I have done that, with no real friends at all.

There are some things I know I can do. I will be attending Church on Christmas Day, possibly with the family, but I'm not expecting that. I guess I am looking for suggestions about dealing with a weeks worth of days by myself as work will shut it's doors. I will be tackling my addictive issues separately with my counsellor. I'm looking for some general suggestions.

Thanks

[tim55]

Hi bindi,

Thank you again for your continuing support, sharing and wisdom.

I hope she is open to a new approach. My wife suggested we both go to my next counselling appointment, my counsellor does couples counselling and has suggested my wife and I should be under the one counsellor. So earlier this morning this was the emerging plan.

I had done a lot of internet chats, but destroyed a lot of the evidence, both as being evasive and as I did not want ever to have them to go back to. Like the SD card full of images, I wanted them gone. A social media account remained and that has been the source of a great deal of painful discussion. At one point my wife was sending images from that account to my phone. There has been a lot of taunting using my past, the one I have renounced and spent 125 days away from.

I think we are caught in a very destructive place. My wife is looking for exact detail in a raft of areas. I give her what I can, but that is not always enough and because a lot of it is either in sms or over the phone, the communication is not always very clear, not helping at all. I told her something today, and things went very badly when I tried to clarify/correct her understanding. I know there is a selfishness in what I am about to say. I want to bury my past, I don't want to keep going into it. It is the source of incredible hurt for her and shame for me. I would rather be working on today forward. The past will always be there. I did those things, I made those choices. But dwelling in that place can't be good, can it? Most of the conversations end with my wife accusing me of being a liar, a clone of my abusive father, selfish and uncaring. You are right, every time we have one of those conversations, her self worth takes a big hit. She calls herself many things that are just not right and undermine her self worth.

I think we are going the other way around. I dealt with what I had done on a macro level. My wife is chasing details. In chasing the details, my lack of memory of events means that I have not told her something, she then asks a question to which she believes she already has the answer and the hurt, anger spiral again. The upshot is that because I can't be honest about my past in her eyes, I will never be honest with her.

Second post to come.

[tim55]

Thank you again for your kind thoughts. I hope we can find a way through. No matter what happens with our marriage, if my wife does not find a way through with dealing with what I have done to her, I think she will be miserable and angry for the remainder of her life and I have no wish to see that, despite what she thinks.

At the moment she has lost faith in her religion, would counsel our daughters against marriage, considers all men, with the exception of our son, as scum.

But there is very little I can suggest at the moment. I believe my wife still loves me, in time she might forgive me but that does not mean we will be reconciled.

[bindi-QLD]

I think you are right about that Tim, and you mentioned it in your first posts too- your wife has to come to see that she is contributing to her own pain now. Metaphorically, she keeps putting her hand into a fire, when she already knows how much it hurts. Yes, the fire burned her and its the fire's fault. But at a certain point, you have to take responsibility for stopping behavior that you already know will be painful IMO.

I really like the fact that you two agreed to see your Councillor together. I understand that you feel you really don't need to be dissecting the past right now, after months of that. Your Councillor should know how to guide conversations to places where they can be constructive though. That should be the main goal of any relationship counselling, not a gang up, and not processing Individual issues. It would be perfectly reasonable to say that you'd prefer to focus on constructive conversations too, if that's what you want and need.

[tim55]

Hi bindi,

I'm really not sure if we will be talking with my counsellor. That was the plan at the beginning of the day, the conversations today might have changed that, I don't know. That will be the questions for tomorrow. My wife has spoken to my counsellor previously and is not impressed, apart from one or two gems. However, he is the recommendation received through her 12 step group contacts.

I have posted before I have suggested my wife talk with my counsellor. That was greeted with the question of why would I? Any reason I offered was rejected. However my wife did go on to say that she never said she wouldn't talk to him. That had/has me confused. My wife does not want to hear that I am not responsible for my actions....I am. Or anything that normalises what I have done....it is not. My wife also continues to believe she is at fault for what I have done. She is not.

I can only hope we will be able to make some headway before my wife just decides life will be easier without me. That might be the case, but I would still be concerned all the issues I have caused will just remain and continue to cause hurt and harm.

I would prefer to concentrate on constructive conversations. I think I've said I would love to bury the past and just start again. That is putting my head in the sand as well. I have to deal with the past, but I don't want to dwell in it much longer.

[tim55]

I think things are getting much worse now.

My wife has struggled with having a cast on her arm. It has been tight and it has made her feel claustrophobic. A new cast was put on yesterday and she was having trouble with it's tightness. The last I heard yesterday was she was going back to her GP today to see if some adjustments could be made. I've found out this morning that she had been been to the hospital last night, the new cast has been replaced, but they also got my wife talking to the Mental Health Crisis Action Team. She won't tell me how that conversation went, doesn't really want to talk to me at all.

This is so frustrating, I want to help her. Yes it is my fault she is in the state she is in. But I just want to help and find it hard to sit on the sidelines and not to be able to do anything.

Sorry self pitying rant over. If anybody has any ideas on how I might be able to help, please let me know.

Thanks

Tim

[Croix]

Dear Tim~

As far as I can see you need to care for yourself as much as for your wife. If I remember correctly she inflicted the damage to her arm herself by hitting you, and it is not reasonable to take that on board as being your fault.

If this was me (no, I know it's not) I'd simply try to do what is reasonable, acknowledge fault but encourage means of healing, the counseling is a good idea if it comes off. I think you now realize attempting to go into great detail when demanded by your wife is not really possible and only serves to keep the wound fresh.

I think there are two different problems. The first is the porn addiction, which while not particularly good is not in the same class as the things some people might do, you have never injured someone by drunk-driving, or conned someone out of their life savings or assaulted them in the street or really anything of that class. You are dealing with it and learning about yourself and gaining strength as a result.

That is not to say it has not had a profound effect on your wife, but it is something she has to deal with too, and putting all the blame onto you is neither helpful nor realistic.

It is a sad fact we can hurt someone, and do so quite easily. We do not have the same ability to repair the damage as quickly.That takes two.

Croix

[tim55]

Dear Croix,

I will be taking on my wife's broken arm as my fault. My wife hit me out of anger about my actions both on Christmas Night (I was being a selfish and insensitive jerk) and in the past. Our world is full of "if onlys" however, in this case if I had been a better person, then my wife would not have become so angry. Call it root cause analysis if you will.

I am taking care of myself, that is an easy thing to do. I have been completely self obsessed for so much of my life. There is now a big hole in my life as I have nobody to take care of. Four months ago, I would have been waiting on my wife hand and foot, if she had a similar injury, now she will barely talk with me. It is incredibly frustrating. My wife is back at the fracture clinic today, frightened by the idea, but doesn't want me to come and try to support her. Really frustrating but also understandable, at the moment I am enemy number 1 for both her and the children.

I do know we need to be doing something different as we are in a cycle that is doing no good at all. Even that is still my fault to a large degree, my truthfulness fails and that brings as much, if not more pain and anger to my wife. I have to win that battle and time is running out on that front, it may already be too late.

No we don't have the ability to repair damage like that, it will take time and people with far more knowledge and skill than I.

[white knight]

Hi Tim,

Glad you got through the xmas period.

The topics of religious beliefs and personalities between a couple is a difficult subject to tackle from an outsiders point of view. So, the following words are all about better perspective and not to sway you against your beliefs.

By saying "I know God want our marriage to survive" is placing lots of pressure on you when, possibly, it wont survive no matter your faith levels and efforts. A great percentage of marriages are processed in a church (of God) and many of those don't make it 'to death us do part'. I'm sure God would have wanted them to succeed to, but they didn't. Best not to place further obligation on yourself to make the unity work.

By all means try, but long term successful marriages are rarer now and the friendship is more a factor in them surviving, that compatibility element. I believe, just by reading your posts that the pornographic element was the trigger on top of other dissatisfactions from what comes with some long marriages. If I'm right there are consequences-

- You are blaming yourself for your addiction

- You are unaware of other factors that could have broken the marriage anyway

- You are not focused at all in any faults your wife has and it seems neither is she

- Your nature including your faith is pushing far beyond what partners do in order to save a marriage.

- Your wife's efforts seem to be limited. Including appreciation for you "waiting hand and foot for her"

- your addiction didn't physically hurt others

There are probably more things

I think long marriages can fall into a love/dislike phase often permanent. They love you because you have always been part of your spouses life for so long, had children etc, but they grow tired of their partner. It doesn't mean the partner is at fault. It could be that your wife wants a "different" life.

This "different" or "change" is common, you aren't alone in it. I've seen it often, the perfect couple then suddenly they split and within weeks one or both are dating others, not because their spouse is inadequate in any way but because the new guy or the new girl is a change. These people also often realise after a couple of years that their life with their ex spouse was better than they ever would get with someone else but its too late, they also have found a new partner and relish in the "waiting hand and foot over".

I hope you wont beat yourself up too much over something not repairable. Cradle your dignity. Everyone has flaws.

Tony WK

[tim55]

Hi Tony WK,

I think I've said you before, or at least said on this thread, words to the effect that when it is inevitable that there is no way my marriage will survive, I will walk away with dignity and think about myself and my future. However, that point has not yet arrived. I firmly believe (not just from a religious point of view) that the vast majority of marriages end through lack of effort rather than anything else. It would have been easy to walk away from this mess I have created. It may end at being that way and for the best for all, but I have to try first.

There is a concept around that basically says love is a decision. Romance begins with attraction and infatuation, but that only gets a marriage so far, there are times when you have to decide to love your partner no matter what is happening. There has been plenty of that from both sides over 31 years.

I think the pornography was the steel joust that broke the camel's back and my wife is seeing it as the reason for my other failings in the marriage. Lots of you didn't want me, you wanted them. I was never going to be good enough. As I am learning about addiction, that is never the case. Addiction in general begins as using something to ease a pain. That was happening long before I married. It then gets to the point where the something is cannot be done without and causes personality changes.

When I was discovered, I asked my wife to give me six months to wait and see who I was without this addiction. There have been times when she has loved that man. There are times, like now, when I have not been that man, while I have stayed clean, my personality habits have come back to haunt me......lies and self obsession in particular.

My wife is looking for a change, for different, but I believe I am that person, if she will give me the chance (yet again) to show her. But I've just about (or have) run out of chances.

I'll continue this in a second post.

[tim55]

I am blaming a combination for my addiction - my father, an episode of sexual abuse, a life in the military and ME. I have to take responsibility for all of my actions.

Our marriage was strong, we had issues, but I think we could work through those.

Sex addiction is very very rarely about the faults of the wife. I think there are issues now, in that her trauma at the hurt and betrayal is not being treated and she does not seem to want to try.

My comment about waiting on her hand and foot reflects the reciprocity found in a marriage. My wife has devoted her life to me and to our family, now with her arm in a cast she needs (and deserves) help.

I disagree with you about my addiction not physically hurting anybody. If you wish to, chance read about what happens in that industry to young women. No I didn't directly physically hurt anybody, but the production of the filth I devoured did.

As I said at the outset, we are on the brink of ending our marriage, but I will fight for our marriage and the woman I love until it is blindingly clear that nothing is going to save it. That might be selfish on my part, but I believe I have to try. I also believe that if my wife does not find help to deal with the trauma involved in discovering my addiction, she will never be truly happy with me or another man.

I'm sorry to launch at you Tony WK, you were offering a different view and I thank you for it. I just don't agree with it, yet.

Tim