Blue's terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day (life viewed through the lens of depression)

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Some of you are aware of my existence by now, but for those who aren't, I'm fairly new to this forum. I've been stumbling my way along with depression for somewhere around seven years. It was triggered by a life event and exacerbated by circumstances since then, which I've done my best to eliminate where possible. About a year ago I changed track with that and made the huge decision to end the relationship I was in. Rough though that was, I finally started to see a bit of progress. I've still had a fight on my hands, to stay afloat and get control of my time and money and my peace of mind, all of which were tied up for a long time in untangling my finances from those of my ex (not his fault, the bank made it really damn hard, and my job and my own state of mind weren't helping).

Now I've started enjoying things again, and am not always instantly down when I'm on my own. I was once a (deliberately) solitary creature who enjoyed my own company and learning everything I could, so it's good to be more like that again. The depression's always there, lurking in the background, but I sometimes go a few weeks at a time without any prolonged episodes. Long enough to start feeling like I'm healing or that my emotions have some concept of cause and effect again. Then down I slam again, sometimes for a day or two, other times for weeks, and it feels like I've made no progress at all. In these periods my mind and my emotions are constantly at war, particularly when I'm alone and/or it's quiet. My mind is calm for the most part, and well aware I'm strong and capable and have strategies and I actively work on those in spite of the depression. My emotions, on the other hand, are running about with flags chock full of negative messages and even though I know it's not (or even close) I feel like everything is collapsing, that I can't deal with it and I just want everything to stop. That's where I'm at, today.

I do have an amazing partner now, who is extremely supportive, and has helped me immensely. My current problem is that I need my friends and family, too. I so rarely have time that isn't ruined by unsociable work hours and also the energy and will to socialise, but my friends are seldom available when I do. In those times I know it may be weeks or months before I can see them again, and I miss them, and that's mostly when I crash again these days. Dunno how to fix that yet, but I need to vent, and here I am. Getting better but having a really crap day.

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey ER,

All good, I got the impression you had a bit on your plate. It's encouraging what you've said about your liver condition. Having a specialist who is on board with what works makes a big difference!

I can't see how they wouldn't. I do loads of research on everything myself, as I'm sure you can tell. I love that your naturopath and GP read it and take it into account. That's land of make-believe stuff for me at the moment. Sadly I'm unsurprised you were previously prescribed meds that were harmful. Seems you've been through a lot of what I have.

Thanks. I'm getting bits of support in places, it's sporadic and largely back-door (that is, related to my husband's health and my carer role, not for me specifically). I'll take what I can get. That said, I've had my first naturopath appointment, which seemed promising. She was comfortable and easy to talk to and she listened. She's zeroed in on gut health and pointed out perimenopause as being a thread between some of my struggles and worsening ADHD symptoms. Hadn't even thought of that. Otherwise, she's asked for a diet & symptom diary and pictures of my eyes and nails & stuff (it was a video appointment so she couldn't look closely). Interested to see what she comes up with.

You're right. No 1 thing for my energy is not calling for services or seeing anyone I'm not comfortable with. Re strengths, I've been trying to follow up on minimalism (one of my special interests) to give me energy as it serves me in my carer role, reduces some of my demands and importantly taps into my love of systems. When I'm able, I work on that and it energises me a bit. Do you have anything like that?

Yup, I have. It did work with Carer's SA, actually. Slowly making progress and getting some people on my side. So glad that works with your psych.

Kind thoughts,

Blue.

[Eagle Ray]

Hey Blue

I’m glad the naturopath appointment seemed promising. The perimenopause comment is interesting as that’s exactly my issue at the moment. I wonder actually if people with ADHD and ASD experience it differently/more intensely as our nervous, endocrine and immune systems, gut health etc are often operating differently which affects the rest of our health? I’d had mild symptoms for a while then end of last October my hormones went off a cliff and I went into an extremely unusual and debilitating anxiety/depression. The GP did hormone testing and my oestrogen was low. Both her and the naturopath recommended a supplement that’s helped. 

The minimalism focus sounds like a great strategy. Anything that gives you energy as opposed to taking it is a good sign. I apply this in relation to people too. Healthy interactions/relationships are energy giving, unhealthy ones the opposite.

For me something similar might be the sorting and processing I do of photo images I take. I can spend hours on this which I find highly therapeutic and it’s like a systems thing too. I like to sort and categorise them.

Categorising is huge for me. I’ve automatically done it since a small child. Sometimes we’d be on a drive through an industrial area. I would build categories in my head of everything I saw - large cables on spools, stacks of timber, different sized tyres etc. I’d create an imaginary store/warehouse in my head with the categorised items. I still do this today with catalogues from different stores, items I’ve seen while shopping etc. I don’t so much choose this activity as it chooses me. It’s somehow calming ordering and categorising things and I know this is the autistic part of my brain. I have extensive knowledge of different bird species too, different wild plants etc. I’m kind of like a walking library.

 I think the systems focus is self-soothing, a bit like stimming. It gives order to an inner experience that can otherwise be somewhat dysregulated. I’ve found I focus on categorising less if I’m in a really calm, regulated phase. I’ll return to it once my nervous system gets a bit chaotic again. It can also help me get to sleep if my thoughts are overactive or troubling.

Kind thoughts to you too.

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey ER,

I think the biggest thing perimenopause explains for me is what I call "word salad", I've been getting my words tangled a lot in the last year or two, which is new for me and I don't like it at all! I don't really know how it is different for ADHD/ASD folks, could be something to look into. I wonder too about my vegetarian diet influencing things, you hear stuff about soy heavy diets influencing oestrogen levels (pure hearsay, I have no legit knowledge on it). Sorry to hear your changing hormones messed with your mental health, glad the supplement is helping. I think it'd be hard to untangle any physical causes from situational causes with my mental health right now, there is so much going on that would make anyone depressed, never mind someone predisposed to it like myself.

I've lost traction with my minimalism this week, need to get back in touch with it. I agree about people, too, some give more energy than they deplete. We saw one of hubby's uni friends last week and felt really good after, she's a very refreshing person to be around.

I hear you about sorting and categorising. I don't do it for fun per se but it does make me feel good about things I have to do and makes them manageable, gives me energy to get stuck into things. If it calms you, great. I have pretty good knowledge of local bird species and a vaguely passable knowledge of plants. Mostly I like being in nature and watching the birds, though I do have a field guide to look up when I see a new bird.

That makes sense, re giving order to chaos. I definitely lean into making systems for any areas of my life that feel disorderly, hence things like minimalism and budgeting being kind of "necessary" special interests that fill a niche when I have to get things done or fix problems. Like you, I'm less worried about making systems when I am in a calmer place. My latest categorising things is I downloaded a Spoon Theory workbook for ADHD/ASD, to help track my energy and reduce my tendency to overstretch myself when I feel good then crash hard because of it. Trying to regulate that better.

Kind thoughts,

Blue.

[Eagle Ray]

Hi Blue

From what I’ve read things like autoimmune conditions, autonomic nervous system dysregulation and endocrine responses can be more prevalent/pronounced in people with ASD/ADHD. So I was just guessing about the influence of perimenopause specifically. So just had a quick look and found a published study called “When my autism broke”: A qualitative study spotlighting autistic voices on menopause”. Only the abstract is available, but it mentions an intensification of common struggles experienced in autism. On the PubMed site where the abstract is there are several other studies on autism and menopause. So it looks like it’s recently getting some research attention.

Tangled words would not be fun! I don’t think that’s come up for me, but I would say my brain is working much less well when oestrogen drops. It’s more like a general blankness and almost inability to function. The emotional lows have been extreme, but I do feel the supplement’s helped. As you say it can be hard to disentangle physical causes from situational ones. In my case it gradually became clear that the hormonal changes were intensifying already existent complex trauma issues.

The Spoon Theory workbook sounds interesting and helpful. I first heard of spoon theory in relation to fibromyalgia which I also have. It makes sense. I can really relate to the overstretching then crashing. Being a carer I can see how easy it would be for you to overstretch because of pushing to keep going with care responsibilities.

I’ve read that perseverance is a strong trait in autism. It definitely is in me. I also feel it’s linked to my difficult birth and fight for survival from the beginning of life. I was a breech birth forceps delivery which in some studies is associated with a higher incidence of autism. I’m also trying to regulate better with overstretching and crashing. I way overstretched myself yesterday in ways that were not sensible, but it’s like an inner drive takes over to push myself.

One thing I’ve found is healthy coregulation with others seems to de-escalate or neutralise some of that perseverance drive. Contact with good people is calming and I’m kind of then able to settle and proceed with life in a less intense way.

Bye for now and I hope you can reconnect with minimalism and it’s benefits.

Best wishes and kind thoughts,

ER

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey ER,

I've seen a lot of similar stuff in my research, though didn't have the energy to dig too hard on the day I looked up autism and menopause/perimenopause. There were a few articles suggesting a worsening of our usual struggles with the hormonal changes, though. Makes sense, common symptoms of perimenopause mirror some ASD/ADHD symptoms.

It's really not. I am perfectly lucid, I know what I want to say, then my mouth up and swaps words around or spills out some nonsense I don't even recognise. For someone who prides herself on accurate communication, this has been rather alarming. It's been happening periodically for the last couple of years, to maybe one or two sentences a day on average, more on a bad day. Your blank moments don't sound fun either. I don't do that unless extremely tired, so tracing a reason isn't hard. I understand the emotional lows, though mine can be traced to specific events, I'm not sure if hormones are in the mix at this time. Glad you have a sense of what is pre-existing and when hormones are exacerbating things, it might help you to manage those feelings. I imagine even a little leg up with the supplement is a relief when it gets bad.

Still haven't read through my book, it's been a bad week for fatigue, & other things grabbing my attention. Spoon Theory has been handy for understanding my weird energy patterns, there's an ND version. The overstretching thing happens because on a good day we want to just get stuff done! And it feels good, so we don't want to stop. Then there are consequences. My role of carer definitely plays into that.

I bet perseverance is strong in autistics. It has to be for basic survival. Your own may be augmented by that difficult birth. My perseverence came from slogging through life with little to no support most of the way. Hope you're feeling better after overstretching the other day, it never feels good the day after. I understand that drive so well, though. You might be right about co-regulation, hubby has been good with reminding me of my limits and what happens when I don't acknowledge them. I hear him even when he isn't saying it, now. It helps.

Not quite there with minimalism yet. I did manage to draw something last week, though. Arguably better.

Kind thoughts,

Blue.

[Eagle Ray]

Dear Blue

I wish I had some good advice for the word mix-ups. It would be very frustrating. Perimenopause does seem to affect people in different ways. I read about a woman who had dropped clothing on the floor but could only stare at it but just couldn’t pick them up. I was like this last November. I’m glad to report I’m better than that now. It’s like the brain stops processing simple tasks.

That’s interesting about the ND version of Spoon Theory. I’ll have a look into that. I have many days where I have to lie down for part of the day, but I’m learning to accept that that’s what my body needs right now. I hope you can find some resting opportunities during the day amongst caring activities. I find even a short lie down on the couch can help me to recharge a bit.

It’s great to have hubby to remind you about limits. I find I sometimes need such external reminders as I’ve often had difficulty guiding and supporting myself. It’s like I can help others much more easily than I can myself.

I’m guessing your drawing is minimalism in art form. I love simple, minimalist designs. For a while I was into minimalist music. There was an actual movement in music called minimalism. Composers would take a very simple idea/pattern and see what layers and other patterns they could create from it. It often involves repetition of phrases and sometimes phase shifting where there are gradual, subtle shifts in musical patterns. The subtle shifts can be so simple but create a whole new effect.

Glad things seem to be going a bit better.

Kind thoughts to you too.

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey ER,

I'm not sure if there is any good advice. I'll keep reading and learning; I may be wrong. As with many things, there's be a range of symptoms you may get, but how many and when varies. I'm glad you're not still struggling so much to process simple tasks, sounds pretty awful. I suspect autistic low energy and processing difficulties are both amplified somewhat by perimenopause.

ND Spoon Theory puts energy into categories rather than just one nebulous pool of energy. For instance, I may have 3 spoons in the Social category on a good day (usually more like one or two in my current state of burnout). About the same in the Sensory Processing category. But I may have 5-10 spoons for Physical Activity or for Engaging With Special Interests, or Academic/Intellectual Pursuits (I'm making some categories up, but they are personally relevant). The workbook looks at these, and gets you estimating how many spoons a given activity uses or if it even gives you any spoons back, and in that way helps you plan and manage your energy. So, knowing the average social activity costs me a minimum of 3 Social and 3 Sensory spoons (often more) and most days I don't have 3 spoons in either category, that's a good gauge of why I'm losing spoons from categories that I would otherwise be okay with. When that happens I end up without enough spoons to engage in things that give me spoons back. Go figure. I hear you about needing naps, or just to lie down if you can't sleep. That's my sensory time out, I guess. It does help.

It is, I value his input a lot. I think a lot of NDs have trouble with this stuff because we've gone a lifetime being pushed so far beyond our limits, not believed or gaslit about our experiences and being taught our needs don't matter and won't be met, so we end up pushing ourselves and ignoring our warning signs. Pushing past them is our normal - to the point where we stop recognising those signs.

Aside from not filling my house too much with art materials, I had given no thought to minimalism in my drawing at all, actually. With digital art, it doesn't matter, a complex piece takes up the same physical space as a simple one. Didn't know about the minimalist music, sounds interesting.

Think I'm outta words, gonna leave it there. Kind thoughts,

Blue.

[Clues_Of_Blue]

This week is off to a spectacularly bad start. Hubby unwell and into a new round of increased medical appointments and heavy duty medications, so very soon after we finally got some answers about what they will or won't do about his more overarching health concerns and the appointments had decreased for the first time in a year. A beloved dog in the family passed away. Worse, Mr Feisty is unwell, even as he heals from an accident he had last week. There is too much tragedy and grief and overwhelm in our lives, it just doesn't let up for a second. I guess how dare I think things were vaguely okay for a moment? I suppose I should be thankful at least that a few changes in my diet and supplements through the naturopath have increased my energy ever so slightly, to deal with all this. A few weeks ago I know I'd have been in meltdown town with any of this happening, and I'm not quite there yet. Small mercies, and all that. Still, sometimes life just blows.

[sbella02]

Dearest Blue,

I'm so sorry to hear what you're going through at the moment. Between your husband being unwell, the passing of a beloved family dog... I can understand where your feelings come from here.

If expressing gratitude helps you feel better, then of course you can allow yourself to do so. But if you're not feeling thankful right now, or if you're finding it hard to feel thankful, you don't have to. You can give yourself permission to feel whatever emotion you need to be feeling, whether it be sadness, anger, hurt...

I'm glad to hear that your naturopath has been helpful in boosting your energy. That's good. 

I suppose the forums serve as a form of journaling for you, from what I've read on this thread. It's great to have an outlet like that for when we're struggling with something. A way to verbalise what we're feeling and keep track of what's been working and what hasn't. If you haven't already tried it, keeping a private journal can also be a helpful way of expressing our more difficult and innermost feelings. 

Are you seeing a psychologist or therapist at the moment? Or if you're not currently, would you be open to doing so? If you're feeling like you need some extra support at this time, professional advice can sometimes be a breath of fresh air.

Wishing you well during this time. Of course, keep chatting with us and posting on this thread if you wish. It seems like this has been a viable outlet for you thus far, and I'm glad to see your courage in opening up to us here.

Take care, SB

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey SB, 

Thanks. It's all a lot. Today was spent at the vet for Mr Feisty, our sweet little bird. It was an arduous day of tests for him, that showed signs of something all too similar to what we were seeing in our eldest bird soon before his passing, last year. Treatment may or may not work, depending on whether the cause is different. Either way, this is a blow to us. Our birds aren't pets, they are our children. Their suffering is ours. 

You'd be among the minority, not telling me to look for the positives, or find something to be grateful for. I'm allergic to toxic positivity and not very inclined to gloss things over. My comment was half genuine gratitude for any small thing helping me through, and half bitter refrain for only ever having small things helping me scrape by. There is certainly a lot of anger in me right now. 

I never could stick to a journal, too much of an echo chamber for me. Writing on a forum like this gains me perspectives and insights from outside myself. I have enough of my own perspective to sink a battleship, and tend to need input from elsewhere to get out of unhelpful ruts. I'm prone to spiralling downward when left talking to myself.

My psych has proven herself untrustworthy, having developed a nice little habit of being really dismissive and smug about particularly important things like whether or not I may have ASD or PTSD. Not exactly what I need right now, least of all when they charge like wounded bulls. I'm in the market for a decent one, three dismal failures so far.

This has indeed remained one of my few viable outlets in recent years, the instability of my support network is glaring. I've found LETSS quite helpful also. Of course my husband is very supportive, though it's not great for him to be hearing too often about how challenging caring for him is. He knows, but doesn't need it shoved in his face, making him feel guilty. Plus we have very similar perspectives on most things and get in the rut together. Sigh.

Kind thoughts, 

Blue.