Blue's terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day (life viewed through the lens of depression)

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Some of you are aware of my existence by now, but for those who aren't, I'm fairly new to this forum. I've been stumbling my way along with depression for somewhere around seven years. It was triggered by a life event and exacerbated by circumstances since then, which I've done my best to eliminate where possible. About a year ago I changed track with that and made the huge decision to end the relationship I was in. Rough though that was, I finally started to see a bit of progress. I've still had a fight on my hands, to stay afloat and get control of my time and money and my peace of mind, all of which were tied up for a long time in untangling my finances from those of my ex (not his fault, the bank made it really damn hard, and my job and my own state of mind weren't helping).

Now I've started enjoying things again, and am not always instantly down when I'm on my own. I was once a (deliberately) solitary creature who enjoyed my own company and learning everything I could, so it's good to be more like that again. The depression's always there, lurking in the background, but I sometimes go a few weeks at a time without any prolonged episodes. Long enough to start feeling like I'm healing or that my emotions have some concept of cause and effect again. Then down I slam again, sometimes for a day or two, other times for weeks, and it feels like I've made no progress at all. In these periods my mind and my emotions are constantly at war, particularly when I'm alone and/or it's quiet. My mind is calm for the most part, and well aware I'm strong and capable and have strategies and I actively work on those in spite of the depression. My emotions, on the other hand, are running about with flags chock full of negative messages and even though I know it's not (or even close) I feel like everything is collapsing, that I can't deal with it and I just want everything to stop. That's where I'm at, today.

I do have an amazing partner now, who is extremely supportive, and has helped me immensely. My current problem is that I need my friends and family, too. I so rarely have time that isn't ruined by unsociable work hours and also the energy and will to socialise, but my friends are seldom available when I do. In those times I know it may be weeks or months before I can see them again, and I miss them, and that's mostly when I crash again these days. Dunno how to fix that yet, but I need to vent, and here I am. Getting better but having a really crap day.

[Eagle Ray]

P.S. I just thought I’d mention that in relation to pop psychology, Peter Levine and SE are definitely not that. Levine has two PhDs in medical biophysics and psychology. His worked is accepted and integrated by many in the trauma field. It just hasn’t gained as much of a clinically-sanctioned evidence base because it is harder to procedurally measure in controlled studies compared with highly structured methods like EMDR. But there are some clinical studies indicating efficacy. It is generally considered gentler and safer than EMDR with lower risk (but could still go wrong if done wrongly by the practitioner). It is based on a nuanced understanding of how the nervous system, in the right conditions, will restore homeostasis following trauma.

Dispenza, on the other hand, has built his approach onto the Law of Attraction, manifestation and abundance trends of the early 2000s, so he is very much pop psychology in that sense. He first came to be known through the film What the Bleep Do We Know? He is a Dr of Chiropractic but presents as a neuroscientist. He does have some good insights and there is some truth to a lot of what he says. But other parts are distortions (e.g. the way he uses quantum physics to back up his methodology by extrapolating subatomic phenomena to macro systems). His understanding of trauma physiology is rudimentary compared with Levine’s extensive knowledge. Levine also had major childhood trauma so gets it from the inside out. Dispenza had a privileged childhood and says he didn’t even know other people experienced suffering until he was an adult. Their two approaches are polar opposites, one working gently with the nervous system to allow it to naturally and organically heal, the other, to use Dispenza’s language, to “defy” and “overcome” the body with thoughts and intentional striving.

I just wanted to clarify those things for anyone reading. Levine’s approach is based on who we are organically as humans and the evolutionary survival mechanisms we share with other animals. Dispenza’s approach is more like trying to create a super human, to think greater than we are and exist in limitless possibility. While it’s possible to shift ourselves in ways that are empowering and increase our potential, to do so by eschewing grounded reality can be dangerous and destabilising. Levine’s approach gets this and is attuned towards balance. Dispenza’s approach makes people feel like they can fly (at least temporarily) and can lead to some transformation, but can also lead to things like rapid destabilisation and decompensation, so it has a dark side.

I just wanted to share those thoughts. What was so confusing for me is that my psych has used both, and they are totally incompatible. Looking back I can really see the schism that was creating in me. Levine’s approach works for me, especially re: trauma, while Dispenza’s approach actually re-traumatises me and leaves me feeling unsafe. So I know the healthy way forward for me.

Hugs,

ER

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey ER,

My take on it is they responded to our emotions as fit their own natures, Sir Pecks being a lively extrovert sharing his joy with us, and Mr Feisty being a thoughtful introvert who would offer comfort then retreat for some space to himself. They both responded to our happier moods with attention and playfulness. We do think of Mr Feisty in particular as an emotional barometer. That's interesting about your alters. Is it that they're kind of protectors, and processing the hard stuff a bit ahead of you? Makes sense that they'd foreshadow what lies ahead. I can see how IFS may not be an appropriate mode of therapy for someone with OSDD/DID, or at least might need modification. I imagine OSDD is pretty complicated to navigate? Yeah, I'd say we are. It's taken a lot of deconstruction, to remove the stuff that it shouldn't look like first. Now there's some room for defining for ourselves what our healthy family should look like, and to build and nurture that. It will certainly be a joy to have a (living) bird in our lives again. I'm struggling a bit with the uncertainty of what kind of bird we may adopt and how to prepare for them without that information (given we don't know what birds will be needing a family when we're ready to take on a rescue, it's not like going to a breeder where they're going to have a specific species and know how old they are and stuff like that, but we don't want to support breeders, we want a rescue bird). Recognising that my worries are centred around change, uncertainty and wanting to settle into a routine again is helping me work through my mixed feelings about adopting again. All challenges with my autism and how stability and routine create safety for me, not a problem with the idea of loving another bird.

Okay, that's a big list of red flags right there. You holding her together in your appointments is just nuts. An understandably triggering role reversal, and wildly unprofessional/incompetent on her part. 

I could definitely see a lack of critical thinking there. It sounds like Dispenza is one of those "charasmatic" personalities, like a televangelist or Hitler (or a comparable figure I won't name, in the current political climate). I find them rather repellant myself, but they seem to have this way of getting people emotionally worked up and ready to believe any rubbish they spout. I'm sure there's something in social psychology studies that gives some insight into the mechanism behind this phenomenon. My own observations suggest that they hook people with oversimplification of complex topics, quick-fix "solutions" to problems, and greatest of all, distraction/misdirection from reality. Showing up with unshakeable confidence in what they are saying, shutting down and creating enmity toward anyone that disagrees with or questions their point of view, shouting slogans and typically harmful nonsense that sounds a bit like science to people who aren't willing to take a few minutes to fact check, using highly emotive language and outright lies to create said enmity... Immature people who haven't worked on their wounds and can't think critically eat this stuff up. It's kinda scary how much pull people like that have. It seems like your psych is in the target demographic, and doesn't have the insight to understand that she doesn't actually "know what's best" for you, and imposing her ideology on you without your consent, especially as a therapist, is absolutely not okay. Who knows if this experience will lead to any growth in her? We can hope so, but ultimately that's up to her and you don't need to stick around to find out.

I'm not even slightly surprised at the results your housemates got from following Dispenza. Spiritual bypassing does not work, there is no quick fix for trauma, and toxic positivity actively does harm. I've seen similar ideologies play out the same way so many times throughout my life. Avoidance is not a cure!

Glad the consult went well. Professional and compassionate are good, and it's good to see you connecting with how your nervous system responded to her. Hopefully the appointment goes well too. I sincerely hope that whichever option you go with, you find consistent stability and accountability with them. Your body will tell you if anything dodgy arises, though fingers crossed it won't need to. 

Could be either or both. Learning one is autistic can come with various changes. If it was a stress response, it might be lessening as he learns to accommodate himself? I'll keep that video in mind, should the energy to follow it up present itself. Those are certainly characteristics that appeal to me, too.

Hugs,

Blue.

[Clues_Of_Blue]

I hear you about the difference between SE and Dispenza's work. When I referred to them both under the popular psychology banner in relation to your psych, it was less about Dr Levine's credentials than the nature of the media coverage. SE and bits from it have come up a bit in social media, and there are various YouTubers teaching about it, whether or not they are following Dr Levine's practices and safety protocols. There is enough popular coverage for someone like your psych to latch onto with or without critically evaluating it for efficacy or safety. Probably should have clarified my thoughts on that at the time, but the word count restricted me some.

[Eagle Ray]

Dear Blue,

That’s interesting, that Sir Pecks was the lively extrovert and Mr Feisty the thoughtful introvert and emotional barometer. Both would have had their own unique, special role in the family dynamic. My two main alters have their unique roles. One is mapped to the part of me that had to be an adult before my time. So he is very resourceful, pro-active and reflects my executive function. The other is mapped to my unparented child self. He is very sensitive, vulnerable and can become easily overwhelmed, but is also deeply emotionally intuitive. While my two main alters are male, I have occasional female ones with minor occasional roles and a few other male ones as well. But really the primary unit is me and T and D. I spoke to the new psych today and she really understood about them and wanted to get to know them. She is gentle and kind and I think would be good to work with. I may try the other new psych one more time too. Both have experience working with neurodiversity which is good. Yes, you are right, that the alters are protectors and they process the hard stuff ahead of me. I’ve learned to realise that when something significant is happening to one of them, it’s what I’m about to go through. It’s quite uncanny, if that’s the right word. I can understand what you say about the challenge of establishing a new routine and dealing with change in relation to adopting a new bird. I guess if you meet a bird that feels the right fit, you can still give yourself a few days to think it through and go through some adjustment prior to bringing the bird home, if you decide to adopt. I would say go gently and just see how it feels as you begin to investigate options.

With my previous psych, the emotion was real and I know she was feeling very upset for me, hence the tears. But I guess I felt that yet again in my life I had to be the strong one, when I hoped to have a collaborator to help me solve the traumatised state I was in. It felt like she became an overwhelmed child in that moment and that I’ve been witnessing parts of her coming out. She is the same age as me and also going through perimenopause, and it’s occurred to me she could also be experiencing some destabilisation with that as I have been. It may even have contributed to her introducing the EMDR without thinking it through. It felt a bit coercive, like I was being railroaded, but looking back I’m wondering if she was extra impulsive due to hormonal instability. I know I have been all over the place myself with extreme hormonal swings. So, yes, the role reversal is not meant to happen, but my sense is she possibly isn’t fully functional at the moment.

Dispenza is very much like a televangelist. He says quite a lot that is factually incorrect. Some of it is relatively harmless. For example, he talked about humans evolving their fight-or-flight response to run away from T-Rex, seeming not to know that humans and dinosaurs did not co-exist at the same time. He also said humans are the only species to kill their own - again not true. Chimps are known to kill one another, male bears are known to sometimes kill cubs, various other species have males who fight to the death etc. So he seems to just make up stuff to suit his current argument. But the serious stuff he gets wrong involves issues around trauma and grief, and physical health conditions, where he espouses his method of going into the void of the quantum field and reconfiguring oneself, primarily via what is really a Kundalini awakening, though he doesn’t usually acknowledge his source material. Such awakenings in eastern traditions are not meant to be forced but to arise naturally through careful preparation. To force them is considered potentially dangerous. But Dispenza’s approach is to push for a result which is one of the things that’s led some people to be harmed. He is basically dealing in partial truths and partial falsehoods in how he presents things. So like the half-safe thing you spoke about, he is highly problematic in not being fully transparent. I sense a repressed dark side in him and I see him teaching others to repress parts of themselves which in my view is unhealthy. He’d claim he’s training them to transmute, not repress, but that’s not what I actually see happening a great deal of the time. His conflating of primary and secondary emotions also shows a lack of understanding (or care) about how things work hierarchically in the nervous system in relation to trauma and this can do a lot of damage. It’s why those with complex trauma and sensitive nervous systems can be harmed in his approach of wilful control via thoughts in relation to basic trauma neurophysiology…

(word count again)

[Eagle Ray]

I’ve never watched anything on SE that isn’t Peter Levine, so I’m not aware of other people’s presentation of it. I’ve read 3 of Peter’s books and watched various videos and listened to podcasts. I find him such a gentle, caring soul. He has been a close colleague of Bessel van der Kolk and Stephen Porges for many years and is very integrated in the trauma field. It’s just the method is not easily measurable like certain other modalities. The three modalities that most often get mentioned for trauma - EMDR, exposure therapy and CBT - are all ones that are really damaging to me. But the reason those ones get recommended as evidence-based is simply because they are structured in a way that can be easily measured in clinical trials. Peter Levine is opposed to prolonged exposure therapy for trauma and I couldn’t agree with him more. It can be barbaric and he’s had to treat people traumatised by that modality. I’ve come to the conclusion that only those who have experienced trauma should ever be the ones designing treatment plans! Or otherwise super empaths who have lots of experience working with those with trauma. In my psych’s case, she does know Peter Levine’s work directly and has done the formal SE training. She was actually excellent at doing SE and I know because a tried a few before her, none of whom were very good at all and I didn’t get anywhere with them, apart from the uni psych I saw who was really nice but wasn’t allowed to fully practise it in the uni setting. It’s a modality based on how animals naturally recover in the wild and Levine spent a lot of time observing those recoveries. He combined this knowledge with experiences he’d already had with early clients of his and began to evolve the principles of SE. But it wasn’t very accepted in the beginning because it was still considered taboo to talk about the body in trauma recovery. So he’s had to break through some barriers but the body is now increasingly being included in the picture. For me, it has been by far the most helpful thing, to work through the body. When one of my alters in particular becomes present (providing he’s ok at the time), and to some extent the other as well, my physical body releases its hypervigilance. It’s really visceral and is a sign of safety and co-regulation. So my dissociative identities are actually part of a physiological healing process for me. It’s how my psyche and nervous system are collaborating to support me.

Sorry, rambling away. I hope you have a lovely weekend ahead. I really hope you can begin to feel some new hope going forward including in relation to a possible new addition to the family down the track.

Take good care and supportive hugs,

ER

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey ER,

Yes, Sir Pecks and Mr Feisty fill very different roles in the family dynamic, Sir Pecks being the only extrovert among us, good at brightening the mood, energising everyone and bringing us out of our shells a bit. Mr Feisty conversely reflecting back to us the state of our emotions & gently challenging us to work on our healing. They've both brought out the best in us, & taught us so much. Your main alters sound like opposite sides of a coin. I'm glad the psych you saw yesterday responded positively re your alters, & they both have experience with NDs. Do you find it comforting when your alters step in ahead and predict upcoming turmoil, or unnerving? I don't think it will be hard to choose a bird, my struggles are more about how to plan now before I have met our new baby. Perches or shelves in the cage, what kind of toys will they like, what size bath to get? We have some safety problems to fix around the house that will take time, & we can't really know before it's done what sort of bird will need a family when we are ready. It's all the unknowns in the here and now that I'm struggling with. It'll probably be a few months before we can move forward with adopting, whether we're ready or not.

If I'm to be honest, this paragraph makes me really uncomfortable. I'm concerned there is a part of you that wants to buy into her narrative that she isn't responsible for her behaviour. As a peri-menopausal person with ADHD - prone to emotional dysregulation & impulse control difficulties - I've had moments of taking impromptu bathroom breaks when my emotions are getting hard to manage in public, and I've sometimes bought a $20 video game on a whim when that money might have been better spent on groceries. What I haven't done is spontaneously endanger a vulnerable person in my care, or impose my emotions on them when they are distressed by my actions... because I am a mature adult who still has a choice in how to handle my dysregulation, and whether to follow my impulses. My actions reflect my maturity, my base nature and my values. This psych's choices showed you her agenda was higher on her priority list than respecting your boundaries & sense of safety. When it went wrong, she then showed you she valued how she felt in the situation above your well-being and appropriate behaviour in a therapist-client relationship. The parallel to the failed caregiver dynamic here is obvious, and I think so too is the instinct to believe that the person with the power really does care and couldn't have chosen to act in ways that hurt you. But she did do that, and after the fact she continued trying to evade responsibility for them. Please believe me that even if she feels bad about them she is responsible for her actions and she has chosen not to take full responsibility for them. Having been conditioned by my mother to protect her from taking responsibility for her behaviours, I know it's hard to look at the ugly fact some people just don't value us or our safety enough when they have a responsibility to us, but it's so healing to look it in the face and say "Actually, they just plain screwed up, and I didn't deserve it".

There are zero surprises in what you've said about Dispenza. It's likely even people without complex trauma are being harmed by this "therapy", if not as severely and it might take longer to show up in significant ways. 

I've come across various aspects of SE and elements of it without the same name in a number of YouTube videos, though I'm thankful the root source of SE is also accessible. If you'll forgive my cynicism about your psych, I can't help thinking that her getting it right with SE when placed next to her unsafe use of EMDR and reverence for Dispenza kind of makes me think "Even a broken clock is right twice a day". I agree that (appropriately qualified) trauma survivors are the best people to treat trauma and to understand when a treatment is not suitable or is going wrong. I have read a bit about the research and principles behind SE. I agree too that the other therapies you mentioned - whilst more easily quantifiable - certainly aren't appropriate for everyone. CBT was rage bait for me, the last thing a traumatised autistic person needs is invalidating nonsense like that. I was very quick to throw that one in the bin where it belongs. Exposure therapy is also a mixed bag, potentially dangerous for trauma in the wrong hands. Interesting about the interplay with your alters and how they affect the physical sensations of hypervigilance, etc. Really does sound a bit like the ecosystem I experience with my little family.

The week-end has been positive, so far. We're planning the things that can be planned for future birdie.

Hugs,

Blue.

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Apologies if I've said anything that seems weird or incomplete, had to cut out a lot for the word count. Wish it actually told you how many characters you had in the message so you could edit effectively, doing it without that knowledge is time consuming, exhausting, overwhelming and stressful.

[Eagle Ray]

Hey Blue,

Yes, it's good to have an extrovert like Sir Pecks when everyone else is an introvert. I was catching up with two friends of mine yesterday who are so lovely and gentle. We are all introverts who are quiet and like our own space and so feel safe in one another's company because we understand what we all like and need. But having an extrovert can be a good thing for bringing everyone out of their shells from time to time. So I imagine Sir Pecks was that bright spark (and still is in spirit). Yes, my main alters are quite different in their roles, but they get along really well. T is actually kind of introverted like D, but just has more capacity to plan, problem-solve and act in a crisis. They are both very gentle but T has more assertiveness and can express anger. D will often intuit and understand what's going on but be more passive and is very conflict-averse. But he is learning things from T. In terms of the upcoming turmoil perceived in the alters, it took a little while to grasp that was what was happening. It's actually a bit unnerving because sometimes what has been happening to them is pretty bad. E.g. T got really bad chest pains and about 24 hours later I then got them. I thought he was going to die. Then when I got them I felt like I was going to die. They were linked to blood pressure spikes occurring with the adrenaline surges. So, yes, a bit unnerving, but I guess it gives me preparation time! Things are settling now so less dramatic. T is holding some anger for me at the moment. I can visually see it. D is being very comforting.

With the new bird, will it be easiest to know the bird first in order to plan for the other things? For example, would the size of the bath be easier to choose based on the size and type of bird? I totally understand about all the unknowns. It will certainly feel better once things are in place with a new bird, you have all you need and have established a routine. Does it help you to have something like a whiteboard to put ideas on and be able to visually see all the things you need to think about, before you bring your new feathered child home? I sometimes find just getting thoughts out of my head into some visual form takes some pressure off all the things swimming in my head, especially when trying to plan and organise something.

I understand what you are saying regarding the therapist. I'm just reflecting on how perimenopause has affected me and I have been at the most extreme end. I've had extreme neurological symptoms and major destabilisation that is just off the scale in bouts since October 2022. I've entered territory I had no idea existed. One thing has been increased internal splitting which is almost certainly linked to the much more obvious emergence of OSDD/Partial DID which I can see now was always covertly there (OSDD1a) and is now obviously there (OSDD1b). I'm seriously wondering if my therapist also has something going on where she is splitting at times in certain dissociative ways. I'm not trying to make excuses for her actions which were inappropriate in terms of the way the EMDR was done, but my intuition just feels like something has been wrong with her as well and she also has been slipping functionally. She has apologised re: the EMDR and said I am right to be angry with her. But she has been a bit evasive and avoidant in other ways. I do think she hasn't taken the full responsibility she should have, but I sense something isn't right at a deeper level (this is really the realm of my intuitive part D here who senses stuff). I could be totally wrong but the thing is she was very kind and supportive with me for a long time. The Joe Dispenza thing was always a sticking point for me because I just don't trust him, but my sense is she actually does and so has been fully sincere in that sense. It's just that it's inappropriate to keep pushing an idea/approach onto a client, even if subtly, when the client has indicated they are not comfortable with it... (word count again)

[Eagle Ray]

I guess the whole situation is so confusing to me I am still trying to process what has actually happened. It feels really terribly sad and I feel a sense of grief for all the positive interactions, successful somatic processing sessions, and caring support that is now overshadowed by basically two things - the disastrous EMDR outcome and her focus on Dispenza-type approaches that I find problematic. I am someone who always wants to problem-solve (I'm now in my alter T's mode) and so I tend to want to understand and heal things, rather than just reject and turn my back on them. That is my nature. I guess I would hope she would grow from this and gain insights as a therapist about what has been wrong with aspects of her approach, thus strengthening what is right with her approach. You can tell I am a glass-half-full kind of person! I guess I'm just very confused and sad and don't like things ending broken. But certain things would need to shift for the brokenness to repair.

Sorry, that was a huge paragraph. I agree, a running total on the word count would be so helpful in composing messages. I'm glad you've had a positive weekend planning for future birdie 💛 Sorry I've rambled so much. Take care and big hugs to you, ER.

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey ER,

There's something to be said for having different personality types in the mix, as much as (human) extroverts can be a lot for we introverts. Sir Pecks was the one who, instead of being dismayed by our lower moods, would jump in and share his happiness instead. He certainly was, and is, such a bright shining light in our world. Would you say T is what D might be like at an older age, or are they more distinct than that? If you don't mind me asking. I guess it's a mixed blessing then, when you see things happening to your alters and know you'll experience them yourself, soon. Must be hard to emotionally process in the moment, feeling for them then worrying for yourself. Glad things are starting to settle, and your alters are able to help you through.

Yeah, there are some things we won't be able to organise until we know what species of bird we will be adopting. Other things are more universal, and we've started organising those. The unknowns are still hard, and the fears one has as a parent are there already, without the joys of knowing our new bird's little face or manerisms and soforth. That's hard. Yeah, I have stuff written down, I don't like to leave my thoughts nebulous. We're slowly working through a list, though other life things are crowding out the planning for the moment. It's very frustrating.

Sounds like we've had very different experiences of perimenopause (though it sure has played merry hell with my ADHD). I guess it's possible there's something bigger going on with the psych, especially if her behaviour has changed significantly since you started seeing her, in which case it might have been better for all involved had she taken some time off to work on her own mental health. I totally understand your confusion, sadness and grief as you process what has happened and what might have been without this mess. All of those things are totally normal and natural. I'm a problem solver, myself, and don't care for things ending broken either, so I do understand the things you're feeling. I've had to learn the hard way, however, that things just keep getting more broken (usually very much at my expense) when I don't shut the door on a problematic situation in a sufficiently timely manner. You've come to the crux of it with your last sentence - certain things would have to shift to repair this, and they haven't shifted. It's okay to have compassion and hope she learns from all this - and it's okay to distance yourself for your own safety. Doesn't have to be one or the other.

Apologies for the disappearing act, the spoons have been low, and my responsibilities never diminish. Sigh. Hope you're doing okay and have had positive steps forward with a new therapist.

Kind thoughts and hugs,

Blue.