topic OUTCASTS in Sexuality and gender identity

OUTCASTS

Grazee — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 04:28:07 GMT

I've had a long life and I'd say . . . only a few regrets. One thing that does upset me is that for a large part of my life I've been an outcast. Early on Society wanted to punish and transform me but as the years have progressed I guess being gay got a little easier; but I'm still an outcast. As I watch TV I'm confronted with a hetro world that is continually in my face. I get angry when I'm forced to view straight love scenes and sex encounters. I have feelings of love and desire that are wholesome and natural but the straight media simply ignores my needs. I find it further insulting that straight society portrays lesbian encounters and I'm led to believe, get turned on by them. Weird?

But create a scene where two men kiss each other, this is deemed unacceptable.

I believe that the Libs, if they win the election, will conduct a plebiscite on gay marriage. That's ridiculous! If two people of either sex want to make a commitment to each other, they don't need anyone's approval.

My journey is coming to an end and I sincerely hope that younger generations will rebel at being outcasts. We gays are wonderful, caring intelligent and resourceful people who very rarely indulge in violence. We should be welcomed unconditionally into all aspects of life in this wonderful world.

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white knight — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 06:14:11 GMT

Hi grazed, welcome

BTW I'm heterosexual, married two grown kids.

I love you guys. So by generalising it isn't accurate. Hetros turned on by lesbian encounters? Not me!!

Forced to view hetros "continually in my face" that's because hetros are the majority...nothing more.

Take politics. We constantly see on the news libs and labour but how much of the minor parties? The major parties have the majority vote.

I really think you have a inaccurate perspective of things. Best approach is to spread your love to others and not allow TV shows to get to you. As for the media when have they reflected society accurately?

We have champion volunteers here that are gay. They are a valuable part if our forums. Just because they are gay is irrelevant.

Yes society has a way to go but large cogs move slowly.

Tony WK

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Kazzl — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 08:29:17 GMT

Hi Grazee, it's very good to meet you. I have read your other thread and want to say I admire you so much for living life on your own terms. You and your generation paved the way for others to do the same, and you endured outrageous discrimination, violence and humiliation in the process. And for that I say both I'm sorry and thank you.

Like you, I can't for the life of me understand why we need a plebiscite on marriage equality. To me it's a matter of human rights. I didn't need anyone's permission to marry and I can't see why anyone else should! Nor do I see why I have the right to say whether anyone else can marry. And the fact that there will still be the option of a conscience vote in Parliament after an almost certain pro vote infuriates me. But I better not start on politics or I'll go off my trolley (and I'm a public servant who shouldn't express opinions).

You are not an outcast here Grazee, you are a most welcome and appreciated member. I think quite a few of us would like to just sit and listen to you.

With much respect

Kaz

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Gruffudd — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 12:34:20 GMT

Hi there Grazee,

Thankyou for telling us about your experience, you certainly have my respect as someone who is younger for being part of the generation who helped make things start to become better for all of us. I know that without the care and mentoring of a very special Lesbian couple, I would have not survived, they intervened when I tried to kill myself, they helped me negotiate university, and they celebrated my relationships and achievements. Most importantly, they helped me understand LGBTI history and to be part of the community.

I had an immediate reaction to Tony's response above. For me as a rainbow champion being gay is not irrelevant it is absolutely central to both who I am and why I am here. If people don't like it, quite frankly they don't like me. Likewise I reacted to how he said that you have a inaccurate perspective of things, I feel like that comes from a place of complete ignorance of the experience you are talking about. I absolutely relate to turning on the television or going to a movie and feeling completely invisible. If there is a gay character it always gets a higher rating like M or R. Usually the LGBTI characters have to be killed off or bad or sad, never just average or like me.

Grazee, I would be honoured to stand with you. LGBTI lives matter. Your life matters, and mine too. I very much welcome your presence here, to me you are a sister and your presence be it reading and the occasions when you post your words you help me feel that little bit more welcome in this world.

Rob.

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white knight — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 13:37:19 GMT

Rob,

I mean well. My comments meant I fully accept gay and lesbian people as equal to heterosexual.

Perhaps that isn't enough.

Tony WK

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Paul — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 19:10:41 GMT

Hi Graham,

I can relate exactly to your thoughts in what you've written. In 1999 I had a friend who was a radio/TV NEWS reader and loved media. He dreamt of the day where there would be shows hosted by gay people talking about issues that affect our community. In 1999 there just wasn't anything out there.

Today there are shows that discuss gay and lesbian issues openly - admittedly not enough or freely enough, but we are starting to have a voice.

This forward movement is because of people like yourself beating the way forward for the next generation and people like Rob and I beating the way forward for the next, and here we are.

Turnbull and his plebiscite and my $10.85 that will contribute from my taxes is a null exercise as Kazzl mentioned. It's a step backwards BUT, we've taken many steps forward to get here and we're not giving up.

The hard work, sacrifice and sometimes despair that has been put in through the years is never wasted and in this case it's possibly a step backwards, but we've made some leaps forward. We've got a way to go, especially for our trans community.

I understand how we are bathed in a straight world and how upsetting it can be. It is changing. It's changing for the better and it's because of pioneers such as yourself - Thank You Graham. Thank you for making it easier for us to carry the flame and continue to take those steps forward respectfully and in solidarity.

Paul xx

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Grazee — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 23:40:21 GMT

Hi Tony . . . Your comments are naturally viewed from a heterosexual aspect. Try thinking how you might feel if your were gay, where the straight world around you just doesn't like you and would prefer to ignore your existence.

One of the fundamentals of democracy is that the majority should protect the rights of minorities. I believe the hetro world has failed miserably in this duty. One of the saddest examples of this is with a man called Allan Turing.In world war two he helped design the original computer and in breaking the German enigma code was responsible for savings thousands of lives.After the war he was caught soliciting a young man, was sentenced to be castrated and eventually committed suicide . . . a broken hero.

Sure we've moved on . . . .but to me neither fast nor far enough.

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Kazzl — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 00:10:58 GMT

Hi Grazee - not fast enough nor far enough for me either!

One thing I would like to add, from a hetero perspective is that it is sometimes difficult to express support in the right way, to know what to say or how to be. Some of us find it mind boggling that in our modern world there is even a need to offer support because in our heads there shouldn't be!

We are all just people - something I say often. But I am learning that that is a simplistic view - saying we are all people isn't enough, because it casually overlooks the discrimination, and while intending to be supportive can actually be dismissive. But we try nonetheless because we care, we believe in equality and we hate discrimination. But we only have inadequate words to express ourselves. (Which my brilliant, gorgeous, wonderful daughter corrects when I get it wrong! Haha)

Not sure where I'm going with this. I guess I'm looking for a little patience and understanding for the straight supporters, who are right by your side, even if we're off-kilter with our words and ideas a bit sometimes.

Love to all

Kaz

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Grazee — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 00:18:25 GMT

Hi Rob . . . its great to be able to talk with younger gays. Please don't give up the struggle; even if the hetro world is grudgingly becoming aware of our existence they will always need a kick up the bum by us.

I've often dreamed of forming a LGBT political party to advance our cause. There has to be about TWO million gays in Australia; imagine the impact this would have on mainstream political parties. Imagine the impact on the larger Gay world. I don't advance this lightly; I really believe we have to garner some political muscle to demand change.

I hope you're happy; happiness isn't conditional . . . its an inalienable right.

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Gruffudd — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 06:24:35 GMT

Grazee, I agree a voice is needed, I don't see why we would not be having a seat at the tables of all the existing parties as well as our own. Some do better than others with Women and Aboriginal people. Same for LGBTI people. Penny Wong is a hero of mine, she has the determination and the substance to achieve much. Bob Brown did his bit for our community, and don't forget Don Dunstan. We have some people out there who are not LGBTIQ but are fighting for a more equal, more just world. Daniel Andrews not only made an apology for what the state had done he is actively participating in the community for continued change, I honestly didn't expect that to happen.

Happiness is a challenge, there is a strong history of depression in my family, which makes getting the environment and my approach to life all the more important. Nothing makes a difference though quite like being around other LGBTIQ people from all ages and backgrounds, and not having to hold back or justify myself.

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white knight — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 23:19:22 GMT

Well said kaz.

Tony WK

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Paul — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 08:26:46 GMT

Alan Turing is my hero - he is the father of the modern computing concept.

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justinok — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 08:35:29 GMT

I know there's a lot of well meaning people here on bb (although I wish more gay people would post, it seems every time I come in here to the sexuality section I see more posts from straight people telling me about their perspective haha). If I had one wish for these discussions it's that straight people wouldn't get so defensive when we point out what the world is like for us to live in. I don't see it happening in threads about depression.

It's like with what happened to Aboriginal people, yes you personally as a white person didn't murder anyone, but we're part of a society and system that did, and continues to oppress. I dunno, maybe sometimes we feel that we need to go out of our way to say how much we aren't racist, and then the conversation just becomes awakward. That's what I see happening here when straight people try to partricipate in these threads. Yes it's great that you treat everyone equally, I would hope so. I treat everyone equally too but I don't feel the need to tell everyone about it because I just expect that's what any normal decent human would do. It'd be like telling everyone that I breath and blink my eyes.

Grazee mate I do worry that things aren't getting better and don't change. The plebiscite really upsets me too. I just wonder if sometimes straight people actually understand how insulting it is. Imagine if, as a straight guy, your neighbour got to vote on whether you were allowed to marry your wife. How could you look them in the eye without feeling demeaned and like they have power over you? Should I start being extra nice to every straight person I meet from now on in the hope they'll vote YES on my civil rights?

I'm just ranting now, sorry.

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Grazee — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 01:50:23 GMT

I am concerned at the last part of your last sentence . . . .'and not having to hold back or justify myself.' What are you trying to say? If its not to personal can you talk with me?

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Gruffudd — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 03:03:05 GMT

Hi there,

I think it is when I as a gay person say what my experience has been which I know can be confronting to hear, or when I suggest something like equality in marriage or talk about my role in parenting children - the response can be a negative one with the suggestion that I am somehow upsetting them or getting my own story wrong. That happens in the lunch room at work, it happens sometimes in a church group. I don't get that response with LGBTI peers. I guess it means I would like to see the world change to a point where talking about my life in just the same way straight people do isn't an uncomfortable thing. I'd be much happier.

Rob.

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Grazee — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 03:05:22 GMT

Well . . . I enjoyed your rant. Your absolutely right . . . no one but gay folks know what its like to be gay. I remember saying to one of my psychiatrists that he couldn't treat me because he was straight and had no idea what its like to be gay.

Sydney Mardi Gras troubles me some times. What the straight folks lining the streets see is a flamboyant parade of gays proclaiming that this is what being gay is all about. Its definitely not! There are many thousands of gays who aren't flamboyant but keep their sexual orientation private. But of course it's better than nothing.

I regard the quest to achieve acceptance, equality and legal rights as the new civil rights movement. Americans of African descent only achieved their civil rights by using their numbers to shake up the establishment.

But first we have to deal with religious nutters and that horrible book called the bible.

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Grazee — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 06:51:49 GMT

Exactly! You shouldn't be made to feel different because your not. Nature simply made you attracted to your own sex and that's been going on since Adam was a speck. In ancient times it was never an issue; in fact ancient Thebes had a battalion of fighters made up, of gay couples who would fight side by side. Unfortunately it was Christianity that evoked the sigma associated with homosexuality even when their own priests were practicing gays.

We've all got to start feeling good about ourselves and recognize our self worth. If people give you the cold shoulder just laugh right back in their face. Make it their problem . . . not yours.

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Gruffudd — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:50:35 GMT

I have no trouble with faith, it has been a useful for me and given reason to live. Definitely there has been much harm done by some people in the institutions and the pressure to have and keep unjust policy and law. It was King Henry VIII that introduced the civil/common law act which evolved into what was being protested against in 1978 with the first mardigras. It was no parade, it was a protest ending in violence with the police, and for my generation I think that time of agitation for change along with the AIDS epidemic are what shaped us. Do you know any of the 78'ers Graham? We can trade stories about them.

I tend to go with living just as I am, and worrying about any implications of that as they happen. It has gotten much easier to do that over the last decade and the abuse has reduced quite a lot. I agree that it might seem sometimes that the change is too slow or that it is the same conversation. I also see straight people on this forum and elsewhere who have had reasons to reflect on their views and how they have treated people and quite genuinely are seeking change themselves. Sometimes they say things that trigger memories of the words and behaviour I have experienced in the past, or say stuff that comes across dismissive of what for us is big but in their context not so much. I will react in this forum and perhaps rant a little, it is an LGBTI space after all and I want to support others like me, it can be a little sharp and getting the balance right is a work in progress.

I think the way out of being an 'outcast' is in joining with everyone else. Not everyone wants to or can live in a ghetto. For me though, even with living openly, I benefit from being able to be myself in a space with people like me - I need both.

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Grazee — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 00:24:56 GMT

The only 78'ers I know are dead. I remember it well; it was a follow-on from 'Stonewall' in the US. Those guys and girls who said enough is enough are heroes to the gay rights movement. Without Stonewall we would still be living in fear.It's a tragedy that, just as the riot gave impetus to the gay movement, AIDS came along and we had to abandon the struggle for rights to deal with the struggle for life.

As to joining with everyone else, consider this. I moved from Sydney down to the Mornington Peninsular and made friendships at the local pub. I attended BBQ's at peoples homes and reciprocated at my home. This went on for three years until they found out I was gay. Immediately they all shunned me; wouldn't speak to me and avoided me. So much for 'joining' in.

I really felt alone until I started talking on BB. I hope you're getting as much out of this as I am.

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Gruffudd — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 08:27:19 GMT

Oh Graham, I have the same sort of experience, moving town, making friends only to have them disengage or shun. It really is a kick in the guts. I know it is unhelpful to get angry with that because only I suffer, I do though, how dare they. I decided a few years ago that people who are going to be like that will at whatever stage they find out, so I decided to be brave and to be somewhat camp and mostly out there from the moment I meet people. there is a price to pay, I definitely have less friends, I am rather visible in the small communities where I live and work, but the friends I have are better more reliable people. I have to travel further between them but it is worth it for me. I guess when I join in it is on my terms. I find it hard to describe how it feels when a straight person goes and lets his friends know that their violence and mean words about me are not acceptable to him.

I appreciate you being here on BB too, being gay makes you family in my thinking, and a friend I hope over time.

The impact of AIDS for me is more people I know in my generation and that awareness that there are too few people in the generations that are older.

I have one 78'er left, she is half of the lesbian couple I mentioned earlier. She is a butch dyke. Listening to her talk about what life has been like is a privilege. I think there is wisdom that only comes with being able to look back on life. We have in our stories individually and as a community what it takes to survive and thrive in the context of adversity.

Rob.