topic THAT DAMN PLEBISITE in Sexuality and gender identity

THAT DAMN PLEBISITE

Grazee — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 04:41:05 GMT

I was angry to read that the same sex marriage Plebiscite was going to be held early next year. Even if it's passed being a Plebiscite doesn't make it law. What I'm concerned about is it NOT being passed. We all know the history of Australian Referendums . . . the NO vote usually wins. So does a NO vote mean that Gay Marriage will NEVER be accepted in Australia. I suspect that we , I mean we, have more to lose by this vote; even if passed it won't be legal and if rejected we will never have Gay Marriage legalized.

I don't know whether to vote YES ; vote in formal as a protest ; or just not vote at all. Anybody got some ideas??

THAT DAMN PLEBISITE

Cornstarch — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 04:50:16 GMT

My PTSD is just so bad at the moment that I have to live like a monk.

I don't own a television it is that bad.

Most days I can't even read ABC News or the Sydney Morning Herald online because of the sensory overload of horror stories triggering me. I have to stick to Podcasts where I can control the content.

So what's happened?

I am on PTSD island.

THAT DAMN PLEBISITE

Chris_B — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 05:53:58 GMT

It isn't pretty out there in the media at the moment on this issue.

For anyone reading, QLife is always available if you would like to speak with a LGTBI counselling service, they do phone and live web chat.

https://qlife.org.au/

THAT DAMN PLEBISITE

Wednesday — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 07:34:04 GMT

Hi Grazee,

I feel your frustration. I'm not a fan of a plebiscite, you're right we don't have a good record on referendums. My recollection is that it is all how the question is written. If we have a no vote it will be used as to rationalize what ever "they" decide appropriate. I am so disappointed that Australia has deemed this the way to go, it feels like a deceitful, cop out. I know there is always so much more to any politics and the papers dont always get the story quite right, aghh!

Come on polies you can do it, be brave!

If a country like the USA with 324 million people can understand that people are people with equal rights regardless, pass legislation that forced all of its states (including the bible belt and red neck ones) to agree to gay marriage, what is our problem? We are a secular country so they cant really use the religion card.

I've worked in both state and federal government, it will all be about votes and seat margins. So if you're up to a challenge and have a fire in your belly maybe you could start a change.org petition, my guess is that it would take off (I haven't seen one as yet).

Did you read about the student who made Aldi change it's ways and stop selling caged eggs. Or what about Eddie Mabo one man that went to the high court for his people to have land rights and won. there are so many more of course. One person can make a difference.

I love your passion!

THAT DAMN PLEBISITE

justinok — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 01:05:40 GMT

So this is a post I just saw on Facebook... I couldnt have said it better myself so I'm copying it. So angry right now.

"Don't worry about it ... The numbers are in your favour. It'll happen. Have faith in the Australian public to come together and do the right thing."

One night I was walking home alone in the dark. I hear someone yell "Where the f are you going dressed like a faggot?". There's four of them. I run, legitimately afraid for my life.They get a vote.

My first girlfriend was firmly in the closet. I helped her come out to her parents. They bullied her into moving to Sydney to break us up. Last I heard from her she'd been hospitalised after trying to kill herself. Her parents get a vote.

I'm sitting in a year 12 ethics class. I'm being told that Catholics don't really hate gay people, it's just that homosexuality is a sin, and those feelings need to be repressed. I know what's being said is wrong. But I didn't know how to challenge it.That teacher gets a vote.

My uncle thought the queer community of Newcastle were trying to turn him gay because he was seen taking his nephew to the movies.He gets a vote.

I'm sitting on a bus that happens to be going past Parliament House after a anti-SSM rally. A woman sits down next to me, holding a sign "God made men and women for a reason". I bring up intersex with her and she dismisses "those people" as being "abortions of Satan" .She gets a vote.

At a Safe Schools rally, some guy walking past yells at us for protecting paedos and how we're all scum.He gets a vote.

I'm hanging around civic interchange, two Mormons walk up to me. Jokingly I tell them "I'm not interested, I'm gay". I'm subjected to twenty minutes of hostility and postulating as to whether or not I truly deserve happiness. Both of them get votes.

At the pool I get mistaken for a man in the women's change room, called a tranny, a pervert. Right in front of her own children I might add. Setting a great example.Her children won't get a vote at least, but she will.

My elected representatives are planning to give 7.5 million dollars to a whole bunch of people seeking to compel a frustrated and apathetic populace to vote against my rights. For the next 5 months, I can only guess what I might come across, in the street, on TV, in newspapers, let alone online. I can't imagine it'll be escapable.

Every single person attached to that campaign will get to vote, as well as every person influenced by it.But don't worry about it ...

THAT DAMN PLEBISITE

Wednesday — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 07:06:06 GMT

It looks like the plebacite is a "fizzer", thank you Labor!

THAT DAMN PLEBISITE

Paul — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 20:09:53 GMT

Firstly justinok - HUGS.

I've heard a lot of people say that Australia is behind and backwards and hasn't grown up.

The people that justinok describes in his post are generally ill educated. On some social issues Australia is immature and still growing up - Our treatment of indigenous people, our treatment of LGBTIQ+ people. Two examples of where we are behind New Zealand - our closest "family" and the US, our most socially influencing source. But we're still growing up.

The relieving thing about learning and growing up is that it is not linear. The more we know the faster we grow. The people who taunt on the bus, perhaps they will learn soon. Teachers are being educated about sexuality - well, they were in most states but that's an argument for another thread (below) Safe school program, actually I will argue it. Safe schools program was recommended to stay, the government axed funding due to one sentence that was re-worded anyway. Victoria's premier (I've already asked for his hand in marriage so get in line) said "Piss off" we'll fund it ourselves! I think NSW or QLD followed suit. We're growing up.

Those who taunt and chastise are being held accountable more and more - we ARE growing up.

Unfortunately there are people who take more time to grow up than others, but luckily, the phenomenon of the more you know the more you grow is spreading understanding and empathy for GLBTIQ+ people and our plight for equal treatment in society and under the law.

So it seems as a nation we still have some growing up to do. Perhaps our system of parliament has some growing up to do as well. With Labor blocking the plebiscite this might buy us time to grow up quickly rather than have some law enacted that makes it more difficult for equality later on.

As Wednesday mentions, it just takes one to start a revolutionary change.

It's taking just one at the moment to stop a change that we need to grow up and accept. Our Prime minister is working the system cunningly to hold back growth.

I urge you to talk to or petition your federal member, start campaigns, start a change.org.

We're a modern nation with some growing up to do marriage equality WILL happen it just may take time.

Perhaps we need gay couples to occupy the streets of every city and town in Australia and be "wed" at the same time. Regular gay folks like you and I on the main street of cities and towns at exactly the same time stopping the country for a wedding of mammoth proportion.

THAT DAMN PLEBISITE

Kazzl — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 21:13:32 GMT

Well said Paul xx

My very strong view is that this is not an issue for the LGBTI community to fight alone. This is a matter of human rights and there are many many straight people out there who are making their voices heard too. There are already a number of petitions on the go - google and you'll find them.

It is the right and the duty of every person who despises discrimination to be vocal about this, through words and actions. I do love your idea of a mass wedding Paul, and I offer myself as a maid of honour to anyone who'll have me.

It is looking unlikely the plebiscite bill will pass through the Senate, but if it does and we go to the polls in February, then I urge people to vote properly - no protest votes. A protest vote won't make any diffence and will lessen the yes vote, playing into the hands of the right wing nut jobs. Don't fall for that trap - making the question unpalatable and cultivating division amongst the yes voters (splitting the vote) is a well-known political ploy.

Love to and for all

Kaz

THAT DAMN PLEBISITE

Wednesday — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 01:33:45 GMT

Kazzl said:

This is my heartfelt opinion too. I am incredible frustrated by the disgusting ways some of my dear friends have been treated. Change is too slow.

I am not in favour of a vote given our referendum stats. It's not even in protest votes, it can be how the wording is skewed to change the question. Does anyone remember the referendum about Australia continuing to be royalists or become a republic? I wanted to vote for an Australian republic. While I can't recall the exact question the wording made it impossible to vote for a republic, it was not straight forward. it is also about so much more than marriage. I have more rights and I am not married than other have in long term relationships, grrr.

I need to get of my soap box and go get a cup of tea... I am so cross about this.

THAT DAMN PLEBISITE

Just Sara — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 02:29:20 GMT

Wow!!! There's so many amazing posts here, I didn't know who to respond to. So I'll give my say to all and sundry.

I have a question firstly and I hope it doesn't sound ignorant, but in Feb will all Australians have to vote? In the US, they don't have to and the outcome is usually in favour of self-interested and patriotic voters. Their up-coming election will be a doozie! Trump is stirring up the masses; my opinion...he'll win.

Politics is all about speel and image, knowing your demographic and playing the game. The outcome favours the candidate who wants to win more and, do it at any cost. This might be dangerous, but the awful reality is that tactics will create the decision. Rallying our masses isn't going to count unless the Plebiscite is carried. So focus should be on 'us' joining the current game instead of Feb.

My suggestion, is that every 'yes' voter in the country regardless of gender or sexuality, could threaten to vote Green at the next Federal and State elections unless the Plebiscite is successful; not just say it, but promise and follow through. The major parties will poo their proverbial pants and have to rethink their tactics and motivation. Then concentrate on Feb afterwards; one step at a time.

We're still not getting the fact our vote does count. One person can turn into a very big hostile crowd without lifting a finger. (Except on our keyboards) Funding for an ad campaign could come from Gay Pride orgs and supportive interest groups.

The media will do whatever creates ratings. They love a good fight! It's time to stop following the 'good-guy' rules and get creative. I mean, how many individuals out there want Gay Marriage to be legal and/or off the list of issues to be dealt with by politicians? As with religion, they're only as powerful as the people who follow them. See what's happening with child abuse within religious institutions; people power! Media power!!

I vote Green anyway, not just to support this party, but to put the major parties on alert and I'm not the only one.

Anger can be a mighty sword of motivation and expression if used wisely and tactfully.

Let's go get 'em!!!!!!!!!! Take the fight to the ethereal Streets!

Dizzy xoxo

THAT DAMN PLEBISITE

Cornstarch — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 02:43:45 GMT

What cracks me up about the Liberal government is their arrogant attempts to pretend that "factions" do not exist in the conservative side of politics, and it is just the poor old Labour party that has to juggle factions.

As if they are above disagreement and are the only "united" force that can lead.

The plebiscite is direct evidence of Turnbull having to placate the factions!

A very expensive exercise in placating varying views if you ask me. The money would be better spent on mental health.

C'mon Australia we're all smarter than this folly.

THAT DAMN PLEBISITE

Grazee — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 04:54:22 GMT

Hey Kaz . . . thanks for rearranging my little grey cells in proper order. You're absolutely right . . . the issue is more than Gay rights. IF the referendum fails it will be a vote for discrimination . . a big nasty black eye for Australia. After reading your comment I will vote and will ask my local member for his stance on the issue. Thanks for the clarification.

THAT DAMN PLEBISITE

Kazzl — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 12:39:22 GMT

My pleasure Grazee ... 'a nasty big black eye for Australia' - excellent description! Exactly!

THAT DAMN PLEBISITE

Paul — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 19:32:44 GMT

I wrote to my federal member. She happens to be the woman who stood up in parliament and argued for an immediate vote. Most of the opposition had left the room.

I asked her what she suggests we can do to get our message more directly into parliament. I also happened to ponder with her about how fertility magically turns on when a marriage happens and where the statistics come from that children are harmed by having loving same sex parents. I also wondered in my letter to her how the Christian right can redefine the institution of marriage from the bible where its natural form is one man, many women - polygamy.

*CAUTION* product on the box is not indicative of contents. The plebiscite is not binding and can be ignored by parliament despite a resounding "yes" result. The funding for the campaigns to argue their sides will be used on the "no" side to spread hate, bigotry and untruths. Socially constructed conveniences from the religious right without statistical base and actually against what the bible says.

THAT DAMN PLEBISITE

Paul — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 19:54:05 GMT

I can't remember what I voted last plebiscite to change the marriage act. I only remember that John Howard was extremely proud to say that the parliament has complete control of the marriage act and changed it to lock it into the sacred institution it is. "One man and one woman for life"

Can't use the Christian argument...

Exodus 21:10 ... You can marry more than one woman

Matthew 19:1-12 ... If you fall out of love you can divorce and re-marry

THAT DAMN PLEBISITE

Kazzl — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 20:58:55 GMT

It's the religious right that do my head in. How can they possibly claim any kind of moral high ground, or any role as the definers or protectors of what's 'sacred', after the recent royal commission into child sexual abuse?

As for 'one man one woman for life', I think our high divorce rate shows how effective that was.

THAT DAMN PLEBISITE

Wednesday — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 00:29:43 GMT

Love your work Kaz!

THAT DAMN PLEBISITE

Grazee — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 01:44:09 GMT

Yeah, I'm still disgusted with Howard's referendum. It was loaded towards the NO vote. It still amazes me that 48% did vote yes and of the NO's I'm told that over 50% of them wanted to vote for a Republic. Howard, in my view, will go down as one of the worst PM's that this country has ever produced. That he lost his own seat is poetic justice.

At the time the conservatives were in power and we can expect the same twisted question in the coming plebiscite. Let's hope the Senate blocks the proposal.

THAT DAMN PLEBISITE

Jeb_CC — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 06:11:43 GMT

I just really don't understand why anti-gays get so mad over this. The sooner gay-marriage is a thing, the less pride-parades they gotta deal with, lol. It's a win-win situation! And what's so harmful to them? Do their eyes start bleeding whenever they see two men holding hands? I'm a Christian but I'm disgusted with how some gays are treated by us religious folk. And it's really unfortunate that the majority of votes seem to be no. 😕 Come on guys, it's love. Let them have what they want, stop being over-controlling snobs.
And any Christian/Catholic who calls a gay a sinner has gotta remember they themselves sinned pretty hard too. XD And I don't get how loving someone is a sin at all. I like to create my own characters for stories and heck, even those got criticized by people for being bisexual. :I Like seriously? Don't you have something else better to do than bash how other people live their lives? At least you can get married in New Zealand which is something.

THAT DAMN PLEBISITE

Kazzl — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 00:10:00 GMT

Hi Jeb - thanks for sharing your perspective, it's good to see a Christian voicing a view that I think many (most?) Christians hold. That love is love.

What we are already seeing and will continue to see are the views of the more extreme religious (Christian) right wing spewing forth as if they represent the majority. I'm not a Christian, but it occurs to me that allowing the extremists to speak for all Christians could do enormous damage to the Christian 'brand'.

The rest of us might start to think all Christians are haters, who support things like advertising campaigns featuring someone with a rainbow noose around their neck (Marriage Alliance online campaign, google).

We might start to say 'why don't the moderate Christians speak out' whenever there is an act of violence or hate perpetrated by a Christian in the name of God.

We might find our own versions of Pauline Hanson to grab headlines saying we should stop Christian immigration, or a Donald Trump to say let's deport them all.

Familiar?

I have faith in the Australian people. We might be apathetic but I don't believe we are a nation of haters. We are largely a secular society now, and I think the influence of religion is waning - but it would still be good to hear more from the compassionate, peace-loving, humane Christians who worship a God of love.

Cheers

Kaz