topic Married with 2 kids but im gay and living a lie in Sexuality and gender identity

Married with 2 kids but im gay and living a lie

Steven1 — Wed, 11 May 2016 05:11:06 GMT

Hello everyone. This is very hard for me to share but I need to do it. I have been burying my head in the sand for a long time and hoping the problem will go away but here goes..

I am 31 and been married 5 years and have two children but have been attracted to males since I was 11 years old. Over that whole time I have mostly hidden my feelings because of the stigma and attitudes toward gay men.

Over the last couple of years I have become depressed and unhappy in my marriage. I have been trying to blame other things such as adapting to fatherhood and work and financial stresses but ultimately I think it's my sexuality that is the key thing getting to me.

I feel sexually frustrated all the time and am constantly wondering what it would be like to be with a guy and explore the fantasies I have had all these years. Then I feel disgusted with myself for thinking like this.

My friends and family are not very accepting of gay people and I can't begin to imagine the devastating impact on everyone if I came out. The people I would feel the worst for are obviously my wife and 2 children. I love them all so much and don't want to hurt them. I can't see any option but to just suffer in silence and get over it.

I will most likely remain miserable but I don't think I will be happy if I come out either. It will cause waves everywhere and I worry I will lose everyone important in my life. I don't see a solution at all.

Married with 2 kids but im gay and living a lie

Paul — Wed, 11 May 2016 06:55:02 GMT

Hey Steven, Welcome back. Thanks heaps for sharing your burden with us, as I think you and I have chatted about in the past it really helps to talk about how your feeling.

Coming to terms with something that is difficult within ourselves can be made even more difficult by projecting what might happen in the future. Obviously there are considerations that need to be made about the impact on others, but lots of things can simply be put down the list a fair way to deal with at a later date.

I like how succinct you were in explaining your attraction, when it started and your fears about impact on family. That's certainly a massive step and probably one that had you shaking in your boots for a while before and as you wrote your feelings. Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings.

Where to from here is naturally a very personal thing but the universal part is that a shout out from the roof tops isn't the way to go. Quite the opposite. Small steps within yourself, some understanding, some strength and of course help from us here. No rules say that you have to live your life out in misery, no rules say that to explore who you are safely within yourself that you will leave a trail of devastation either. Please be aware that I really mean within yourself and not externally explore, for example an encounter. This of course is up to you, however let's chat about you first and run through a few things before even thinking about external things, coming out, ripples, impacts and all of the things that frighten the hell out of us.

Can you tell me more about being depressed? what does it feel like and how long have you felt like this?

Steven, this might be an ongoing chat we have and it might go on for a bit but I'm certainly happy to chat with you about what's happening and talk about how you're feeling. It's safe and anonymous here and those of us who have a rainbow bus next to our name on the left are members of the GLBTIQ community and really do understand how tough things are.

Let's tackle it together and explore gently without having do make any decisions or tell anyone.

What do you think?

Paul

Married with 2 kids but im gay and living a lie

Steven1 — Wed, 11 May 2016 22:03:29 GMT

Hello Paul that sounds like a good plan. Thanks for your support. By the way I love the picture of the cat. Yours?

My depression started around 2012 when my first son was born. I have found it very difficult adapting to having children. I am constantly tired, irritable, lethargic and have lost interest in most things. I think about death and dying a lot and feel like I have nothing to look forward to.

As I have mentioned in other threads my life has become dull, boring and monotonous. I am going through the motions and am existing rather than living.

My relationship with my wife is not what it used to be. We are like friends rather than lovers. We don't talk like we used to. Our sex life is limited. My sexuality probably has a lot to do with that.

Strangely enough my wife knows that I am attracted to men but doesn't take it seriously. She thinks it's just a weird kinky thing. I told her years ago when I found her reading an old diary of mine. I was furious she invaded my privacy and ended up telling her because she wanted to know what was in there.

It's complicated Paul ! Hope I am making sense and not rambling on..

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Married with 2 kids but im gay and living a lie

Paul — Wed, 11 May 2016 22:26:46 GMT

Hey Steven,

Nice to see you again.

Yes, that's my cat Maggie - she thinks she is a meerkat and stands like that on the doors on my balcony. She's the source of many giggles.

Just so I can make sure I understand - Your depression started when your first son was born, the depression feels like constant tiredness, lethargy, thoughts of death and dying, just existing, nothing is exciting anymore, it's dull, boring and monotonous. That's a whole lot of crap to carry around - most of us here on the beyond blue forums understand what it's like. Its difficult and it feels like there is no solution. Luckily there are solutions and as we chatted about before - we'll find them.

I usually talk about a multiple angle approach to dealing with depression and I think that's what we should look at. You mentioned thoughts of death and dying - they can be frightening. I know when I have had them I am left wondering where the hell they came from. My little sister actually kicked my arse and said I needed to do something or she would fly to where I am and drag me.

I think a better way of explaining that - which is one the many approaches for treating depression is to visit your GP or find a GP you haven't been to if you are concerned that they are the family GP and have a chat. You don't need to explain your sexuality to them simply tell them how you are feeling.

That's one of the multiple approaches where most of us go to start getting well. I really do urge you to consider a GP visit very soon. Thoughts of death and dying that accompany the other feelings you describe are never pleasant and I think you'll find some initial relief with a Dr.

The next approach which I think we should step through a bit slower is talking about the change in how you felt when your son was born. In talking about this you might feel some guilt or discomfort but please know from when we chatted a few months ago, I know you're a great dad, so nothing about that is in question. Nothing at all! It's all about how you're feeling. Let's make a pact. I won't judge anything you say but you're not allowed to either. deal?

There is a Beyond Blue help line that is available 24 hours a day. You are welcome and encouraged to use it if you need to and if you have thoughts of death or dying or anything like suicide, you must call the folks on that number, they WILL help.

Till next time. keep holding on Steven things will get better.

Paul

Married with 2 kids but im gay and living a lie

Steven1 — Thu, 12 May 2016 03:00:35 GMT

I'm not sure how this thread ended up in this section. I suppose because I mentioned death. I still think it should be where it was initially but never mind.

I do have a gp and am on an antidepressant but I don't think it is doing very much. I'm thinking of coming off it. Might try and find a new doctor as my current one keeps brushing me off.

Having children is a huge change and I'm not sure I was ready for it. Given that I feel like I would be more suited to a same sex relationship I probably shouldn't have had kids. This could be very confusing for them down the track if I do eventually come out or end my marriage. But I love them dearly and still believe I can be s good father if they want me.

Married with 2 kids but im gay and living a lie

Paul — Thu, 12 May 2016 06:33:18 GMT

Hey Steven,

Our moderators will move any posts that mention thoughts of death or suicide to this forum. It's an automatic safety thing. No cause for alarm and we can move our discussion back to the sexuality section if/when we get into depth about sexuality issues. - Is this OK with you?

I reckon your suggestion of finding a GP who you feel more comfortable with is a great idea. Can you keep me updated with how that goes? I found it REALLY helpful when I found a Dr that I could relate to and could feel comfortable with. I have absolutely no trouble telling people about myself, but I think it's like any type of friendship or relationship or mateship or even an interaction with a colleague - there will be people we are comfortable with and feel a rapport and those who we just don't. I've found an awesome GP and a great psychiatrist and they are phenomenally helpful.

Having kids is a HUGE change! I was present at the birth of my nephew (my sister's son) and there for the first week. The changes I observed in her and her husband were astounding, there's so much to learn and do and so much bloody sleep to miss out on! The thing was that my sis said even though she read books (4,000 of them she is a bloody bookworm) I don't think anyone is really ready for kids. But as you say, you love them dearly and I know man dads who are gay who love their kids just the same as anyone else and the kids are amazing as well.

Let's run a scenario - Imagine you ARE in a same sex relationship and you had kids (by whatever means) with your partner. What would be different? Can you step me through? I know this doesn't exactly address your situation but I think it might help to step through.

The last paragraph you wrote conveys some pretty strong emotions - I really sense them and understand the upset. I'd like to talk more about the last paragraph next time we write after we walk through your walk through of the scenario I gave.

Until then, keep well Steven.

Paul

Married with 2 kids but im gay and living a lie

Steven1 — Sat, 14 May 2016 23:19:20 GMT

Hi Paul. It has taken me a while to reply as the last few days have been pretty hectic. I understand what you are saying about why the post has ended up in this section.

I am pretty old fashioned when it comes to families. I see a family as a mum, a dad and kids. I believe in kids having a man and a woman as their parents. That is how I was brought up and they are the values my family have instilled in me I guess. I don't have anything against same sex couples having kids but it just seems unfair on the kids to me. I worry about them getting teased and bullied by other kids. School children can be very cruel.. especially when it comes to homosexuality. I worry about all of these things.

In terms of finding a new doctor I know I need to but keep putting it off. I never feel comfortable with doctors. They make me feel anxious. Don't know why. I also don't like talking about my mental health or personal issues with strangers so that is going to be tough..

Married with 2 kids but im gay and living a lie

Paul — Sun, 15 May 2016 19:49:34 GMT

Hey Steven,

Family values are something that is precious to us all and no one can dictate how you should raise your kids a health professional will NOT do this.

Just on your last paragraph - aren't I a stranger?

I understand and respect that you don't like to talk to strangers about how you feel. Please keep in mind that any professional you talk to is bound by law and ethics to maintain complete secrecy. When you visit, they are going to be focussing on your mental health and ensuring you are OK, they may perhaps talk about how to manage some of the emotions that are flying around inside and also the emotions that used to fly around inside. You can choose the time to tell them you are gay, perhaps that might be after a few visits and you feel comfortable with them and they aren't a stranger anymore.

What are your thoughts Steven?

Take Care

Paul

Married with 2 kids but im gay and living a lie

Steven1 — Tue, 17 May 2016 08:43:15 GMT

Thanks Paul. Yes you are a stranger, but it is easy divulging personal information behind a computer screen. I will never see you and you will never see me. It is far more difficult in person.

Married with 2 kids but im gay and living a lie

Paul — Tue, 17 May 2016 21:06:35 GMT

Hey Steven,

I agree - it is easier behind a screen.

Can you tell me what you'd like to gain from the forums here at Beyond Blue so we can help you achieve what you need to feel well again?

Paul

Married with 2 kids but im gay and living a lie

Steven1 — Wed, 18 May 2016 06:16:39 GMT

What I really want to achieve is to share how I'm feeling and to gain advice and or perspective from others. I don't expect a magical fix but I just want some guidance on what I should do in my situation.

Ultimately it is my decision and I know that. No one can make the decision for me but at the moment it just seems too confusing and too hard to tackle so I pretend it's not there and just keep going.

I wonder if any other married men can relate to my post or have been through a situation like this and are on the forum? If so I would like to know how they got through this.

I'm not after sympathy or just having a whinge I just want to hear how others would go about dealing with being gay but married to a woman.

Married with 2 kids but im gay and living a lie

Kazzl — Wed, 18 May 2016 07:59:18 GMT

Hi Steven, hope you don't mind me joining in here and I hope my thoughts don't upset you ... I am now on my second marriage and a good bit older than you so I might be seeing things a bit differently but, for what it's worth, I think marriages only truly work if both partners are honestly happy and fulfilled in the marriage - and I mean honestly and I mean both.

You have much to consider and decide concerning your own life, but so does your wife - whether she knows it or not.

I guess what I'm trying to say, not so subtly, is that the future of your marriage doesn't just depend on whether you as a gay man can or wants to stay with a woman. To put it bluntly, it is equally about whether your heterosexual wife wants a gay husband, or would be happier having the freedom to find a partner who is sexually attracted to her.

In my opinion, if you love her and respect her, and see her as more than just the bearer of your children, this is something you both need to consider.

Married with 2 kids but im gay and living a lie

DrTom — Thu, 19 May 2016 11:04:20 GMT

Hi Steven,

I very much understand where you are coming from! I grew up in a very strongly religious family, and if I reflect I would say at some level I knew I was attracted to men probably around the same time as you. But I tried very hard to do what was expected of me, and I dated a couple of girls, and eventually married. I was married for 15 years, and have three lovely kids, who are now 13, 10 (last week!), and 7. I spent a good fraction of those 15 years in a pretty dark place and was on antidepressants about half that time. I was able to blame it (even partly to myself) on trying to write a PhD (which I managed eventually), and on the trauma of one of my kids being very sick as an infant. But really, in that small part of me that could be honest with myself, the real problem was, like you, that I was living a lie.

Eventually, I felt that I had to admit it (mostly to myself), that I am gay. I felt like I would lose everything, but once I had admitted it to myself, I told my wife the next morning. I love and respect her, and it was important to me to tell her. We separated amicably shortly after. I told my parents a couple of days after I told my wife (actually by email - they were living in the country, and I knew I couldn't do it over the phone. It was a good move. Time to compose your thoughts was good for me and good for them). They were very surprised, but have been a rock solid support.

That was 4 1/2 years ago, and while the first year or two were pretty hard going, things are pretty good now. My ex wife is an awesome woman, and although some of it has been emotionally hard for both of us, she has been constructive and understanding throughout. As I said, my parents have been awesome, and the rest of my family have been fine too. Being a part-time single parent was really hard, but as I've relaxed a bit and as the kids have grown up it has got much easier. I have a lovely partner - we've been together a couple of years, and my ex wife has a new partner too. He's lovely and loves the kids too.

I know there are a spectrum of outcomes, and not everyone is as lucky as I am, but I wanted you to know that if you do get to a point where you do come out (and if/when you do or not is entirely up to you), there is life on the other side of the chasm.

I've rambled on long enough for one post, but if you want to know more about my story, I'm happy to share it.

Tom.

Married with 2 kids but im gay and living a lie

Gruffudd — Thu, 19 May 2016 11:20:49 GMT

Hi there Dr Tom,

Welcome to posting on here. Thanks for sharing part of your story. I think it helps to know things can get better. I am encouraged by what has happened for you.

Rob.

Married with 2 kids but im gay and living a lie

Paul — Thu, 19 May 2016 19:55:49 GMT

Hey Tom,

Thanks from me as well for sharing your story. It seems that one of the important points of your experience is that you came out to yourself before you came out to others. I think that would be really important when it comes time to sharing emotions with others and dealing with some of the difficulties and questions as well.

Paul

Married with 2 kids but im gay and living a lie

DrTom — Thu, 19 May 2016 21:29:56 GMT

Absolutely. Coming out to yourself, and accepting that this is just how you are is the hardest step, at least it was for me.

One thing I forgot to say earlier which I think is also important is that I feared that by coming out I would lose everything, but it never occurred to me to think about what I might gain. Quite aside from feeling much less unhappy and stressed straight away (in spite of the sadness and difficulties), I also discovered there are lots of men like me - who have been married but are gay. I also met lots of lovely caring people who understood where I was coming from, having experienced something similar themselves. Several guys gave me their phone numbers very clearly saying they were not trying to hit on me, and that I should call them if I ever felt at a loss. I never needed to, but just knowing that there were people out there who understood and who cared enough to do that was a lovely encouraging thing.

I have also made several wonderful friends, one in particular who is also a parent (though his kid is grown up), and he comes over for dinner and the kids adore him. He's the person I unload my worries on, and he has a fund of wisdom and experience, and a wicked twinkle in his eye.

I guess the point I hope you get is that as well and the things you might lose, there are also things to be gained. I think most guys in our situation would tell you that they have gained much more than they lost in a whole-of-life view.

Tom.

Married with 2 kids but im gay and living a lie

Steven1 — Fri, 20 May 2016 03:30:47 GMT

Hello Dr Tom. Thank you so much for your post. It made me feel a lot better and gives me some hope for the future.

I would love to know more about how you explained things to your children and how they reacted. Your children are a fair bit older than mine but one of my concerns is how me coming out might impact on them.

Thank you so much for pointing out that there are positives too. I tend to focus on all the negative aspects all the time and really need to stop doing that.

Regards, Steven

Married with 2 kids but im gay and living a lie

DrTom — Fri, 20 May 2016 07:45:19 GMT

Hi Steven,

You're very welcome! I have found happiness I never even realised life contained. Of course, it is not the case that life suddenly becomes easy. My life long susceptibility to anxiety and depression hasn't gone away entirely, but without a doubt I'm in a vastly better place.

When I came out, my kids were 9, 5 1/2 and not-quite-3. My ex wife and I were very much in agreement that we should be up-front (though age appropriate) with the kids, and I think we made the right call (I'll come back to that in a bit). We sat them down and explained (through our tears) that I had decided that it was not right for me to be together with a woman, and if maybe I had another partner in the future it would be a man. I don't think it meant a whole lot to them then, but it laid a foundation. Only my eldest really got the gist, but as the following story suggests, it didn't really sink in.

A few months later, once I was established in an apartment near-by, my eldest asked "Dad, why do you have a double bed?". I replied that the two younger kids often climbed in with me during the night and it would be a bit squashy in a single bed. "Besides," I said, "one day I might have another partner and then I'll want a double bed." He thought for a bit then observed "Well, if you got another partner, and mum got another partner, then I would have a step-mum and a step-dad." I replied "If I have another partner, it will probably be a man." After a pause, during which he was clearly thinking this through he replied "Oh, then I'll have two step-dads."

They don't care that I'm gay. It's only a problem if someone teaches them that it's a problem.

We have had a number of conversations about it over the 4 1/2 years since, and to them it's normal. They've met several of my gay mates, and of course my partner. (We don't live together, but he stays over often.)

The reason I reckon we made the right call, is that anecdotally, the younger the kids, the less of a deal it is. I know several ex-married guys who came out when their kids were in their late teens/early 20s, and it seems that they have a much harder time getting used to the idea. Let me offer a caveat, which is if you decide to come out, let it be for you - because you've decided that is what you need to do. Doing it (or not doing it) "for the sake of the kids" is not a good reason. In my opinion.

Tom.

PS Very happy to answer more questions if you have them.

Married with 2 kids but im gay and living a lie

Steven1 — Sat, 21 May 2016 02:19:34 GMT

Hi again Tom. Thanks very much for replying so promptly and for your words of wisdom. It sounds like you and your ex-wife have done a remarkable job explaining it all to your children. I am glad to hear that they have been so accepting.

My boys are very young (1 and 4) at the moment. So it won't mean anything to them for quite some time but it is still something I have thought a lot about.

With the boys so young I can't bring myself to end my marriage right now. I really don't think my wife would cope on her own (and neither would I). In the same sense I am also aware that it is unhealthy for us to remain together just because it is easier.

It seems like a lose/lose situation. When you split up with your wife how much time did you spend with the kids? Did you just seem them on weekends or how did you work that out? Was your wife working at the time? Sorry to ask all these questions but I can't get my head around all the logistics of it if we split up.

I just keep saying it is easier to just stay where you are....

Married with 2 kids but im gay and living a lie

DrTom — Sat, 21 May 2016 03:09:48 GMT

These things are certainly complicated! And I'll admit I didn't even think about these things when I came out. It was just what I had to do.

When we first separated I stayed with friends for about 6 weeks while I found a place and stuff. During this time, I went round for dinner most nights and helped tuck the kids in to bed. On one or two of the weekends I took the kids down to stay at my parents place in the country.

Since then we have had a pretty stable routine. I had Friday off every second week, and on that week had the kids from Thursday night through to Monday morning. The other week I just had them Thursday night. It worked out to 5 nights/fortnight which is about 1/3 of the time. But we also established a "date night" thing which is that once a fortnight one of the kids and one parent do a date night, which depending on age and circumstance might mean take-away pizza and a movie, or going out for burgers, or a documentary at IMAX or something. So obviously, if my ex is out with one of the kids, I have the other two. This has been a really good thing for the kids, and various friends have copied the idea, even when both parents are still together.

As I said, I didn't even really think about what would happen after. I just felt like it was the end of my life as I knew it. And kind of, it was. But it was also the start of building a new life, one that is much better than I ever imagined.

I understand about the difficulty of coping on one's own. Definitely the first year or so was very hard going. Still, I had my lovely bestie who I mentioned. He would come and have dinner with us, and help sooth the bumps through the bed-time routine, and listen while I unloaded on him. My parents and my sisters had us over for dinner often (even though my sisters still have some ambivalence about matters-gay, I think), and my ex wife had family and friends looking after her.

Whenever you come out (if you choose to do so), it will be hard, at least for a while. For you. For your wife. For the kids. But as you say, staying is hard too. If you do come out, hopefully the difficulty and pain will represent the start of beating a path though to a happier place. One view to consider is that the sooner you start, the sooner you will all be able to recover and build a new life. Not everyone manages it easily, for sure, and it can take some time to get to a good place, but most people seem to get there.

Tom.