topic Withdrawal from world. in Sexuality and gender identity

Withdrawal from world.

Moi — Mon, 21 Mar 2016 12:17:19 GMT

I transitioned from M to F across 2004–2007, in the job from which I’ve recently retired. Before 2004 i was married, with kids. That ended [not my choice] once my secret unexpectedly burst out. My birth family have stood by me.

My transition objective was to become simply one more anonymous woman in the crowd, blend in, raise no eyebrows, move amongst ordinary society as an unremarkable female. Attention-seeking was/is anathema to me. My carefully researched action plan was implemented over that 4-year span; in essence RLE, HRT, Electrology, Trach shave, speech pathology, FFS, Breast Augmentation & finally SRS. The logistics were complex, the cost [financial & emotional] huge, & the final outcome [vs my objective] was a failure. Yes I finally was free of that awful genitalia, & had its long-desired replacement. Though a source of comfort & satisfaction for me, the public can only see what’s not under my skirt or blouse when assessing my gender.

Despite all my careful research, selection of leading practitioners, & hard work, my hopes were dashed by the time i emerged out the other end of the tunnel. The Trach shave brought only minimal improvement to the ghastly bulge, & the extensive $$$ FFS produced a barely amended face that to this day i cannot look at in the mirror without a visceral reaction of loathing. I simply never see the woman who was needed.

From 2007 to 2009 i forced myself just to ignore my extreme negative self-assessment & also the stares, double-takes, smirks etc. Though many people were respectful, generous & kind, nothing conquered my dire view, nor the many visual cues of random strangers which proved over & over that my objective was unattained. By the end of 2009 i officially gave up, & withdrew from the world. With only rare exceptions i just do not leave my house. I have no social life at all, & little self-belief.

My clinical depression is severe, & a bad social phobia with it. My GP is aware of all this, & has tried to support me over the years since my transition began. I have tried various SSRIs, psychotherapy counselling, CBT, & various online courses. Clarity is important here -- my depression & social phobia are from the failure of my transition, NOT that i regret trying.

Though some weeks & months are better than others, in general i still cry a lot, day & night, including often waking up in tears. I have no vision of a good future, only more ongoing lonely torment. I have suicidal thoughts often. This is my “life”.

Withdrawal from world.

Moi — Tue, 22 Mar 2016 02:41:08 GMT

PS - This other stuff had to be omitted from my initial post due to the 2500 char. limit:

Notice that my stated objectives made no mention of beauty or prettiness, & likewise no mention of attractiveness [aesthetic or sexual] to anyone. That was not a careless omission but was quite deliberate. At no point before during or after was my transition motivated by any sexual inclinations, but only by the imperative to resolve the awful gender dysphoria. Transition is a journey of gender identity not sexuality, though this is widely misunderstood by the Great Unwashed who typically conflate transsexuality with transvestism or cross-dressing. In the case of MTF transsexuals the ignorant assumption tends to be that the sufferers are simply gay blokes who want sex with men whilst dressed in frillies -- that is transvestism not transsexuality. Moreover, that misunderstanding is only further rendered naive when one considers the genital status once one is post-operative from SRS. To restate, transition is a journey to render one's body in-phase with one's gender identity... it has nothing to do with one's sexuality. Post-operative MTF women might be lesbian, straight, or asexual. I am attitudinally the former, but practically the latter. I am completely disinterested in blokes.

I don't interact with neighbours, check mail or put out bins til dark, go out to shops etc, rarely see my remaining family, don't answer door knocks. My drivers licence recently expired, as i couldn't face venturing out for another pic of that tranny's face & throat.

I have suicidal thoughts often, & have worked out exactly how i would do it. That i have not yet enacted my plan is due to a combination of (a) physical cowardice [lest i fail in the attempt & cause myself physical pain with possibly permanent injuries], & (b) a desire to spare my Dad, sisters & kids any grief & pain my demise might cause them. In honesty there's also a tiny but not zero third reason, (c), a naive deluded faint hope that against all odds one day i might wake up & just decide finally to be brave, to just ignore other's reactions, & do whatever i want. It is frequently however a daily process to re-run the calculus in order to weigh up the prevailing merits of Staying or Going.

IMO my scenario is complex because it crosses several boundaries, such that no coping method has worked. Measured against my particulars, all counselling & online courses i've hitherto tried, are woefully simplistic & superficial.

Withdrawal from world.

Paul — Tue, 22 Mar 2016 03:08:27 GMT

Hi Moi

Great big hug. Welcome to Beyond Blue forums. Thanks for sharing your story with us, it sounds like it started with a lot of hope but currently has little hope and none of the desired outcome. This makes me sad and I'd like to help where I can. I understand that journey through transition is difficult enough and one that doesn't have the desired outcome can be very distressing and upsetting. I really get that.

Are you chatting with any other trans people regularly or are you in any social or support groups? If you like I can find some resources for you depending on the Australian state you live in. Other trans people may be able to provide a sense of community and safety for you regardless of how you feel about your journey - even though you might not have the energy to be social, even an online group like this and perhaps another could help.

Regarding depression, If you've read any other posts I've written I believe that treating depression requires multiple approaches. You mentioned your GP who has been wonderful - that's so awesome. Your biological family are supportive which is also wonderful. What sort of things to do you do to treat yourself? Despite feeling how you do about the way things turned out with your transition what can you do to celebrate that you are still an amazing person? Nice perfume? Some beautiful clothes? a lovely meal or even a nice long bath. Sometimes a walk as the sun comes up is a reminder that we are amazing people no matter what.

What are your thoughts Moi?

Paul x

Withdrawal from world.

Flirtie — Tue, 22 Mar 2016 03:51:23 GMT

Hello Moi

As a transgender woman I feel for you !

I have discussed this very thing in an article i wrote for Blaze magazine. It is a strong desire for many to "pass" and it is questionable as to what that means .

If you are personally uncomfortable with yourself it is very difficult to negotiate society because you feel in adequate. You are not! The thing I know is that the idea of melting into the background is something that requires self belief not a specific look. Yes approach to presentation has an impact but if you are self loathing it will hinder you.

Accidentally I worked out that self acceptance has more impact that how you look. We all know ourselves differently, we all generally criticise ourselves more harshly , but the worst thing we can do is to is to not accept ourselves.

It is really useful to seek out community for experiences with peers will give you support it sounds like you need. There are many places online where you can conectwith people who have personal experience that can offer support and crucially affermation that you sound so in need of.

You are undoubtedly a beautiful person you just need to feel it. I understand your despair and if you would let me I will share the community I know with you.

I'm not sure if you use Facebook but it is one simple way to build conection and from it I have conection all across the country.

Withdrawal from world.

Flirtie — Tue, 22 Mar 2016 05:10:33 GMT

I have only to agree with you Moi the journey is about being who you are . The journey to align gender with the physical being has nothing to do with sexuality.

Beauty is not something that is superficial looks but the comprehensive foundation of humanity. Reality is that you are the person who has experienced your path, you know yourself and your journey more intimately than anyone else ever can, you have a story to share and people who want to hear that story.

You have people who care and people who you care about that is a beautiful thing . It is not a superficial matter of appearance it is real humanity. You and your journey are important to share. We all have different experience in transition and everyone has a story to tell.

I find the deeper I go to share my experiences the better I feel about them . As a person who has depression and gender dysphoria I know part of what you feel. What I feel you are missing is community.

It makes life easier.

Withdrawal from world.

Gruffudd — Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:53:58 GMT

Hi there Moi,

It is sometimes big to speak up and say how it is for you. You have my admiration for that. Personally I like a woman who knows themselves, sounds like you do. I was listening to a podcast from welsh radio earlier tonight about trans teenagers negotiating all that medical stuff, family, friends... There is something beautiful in a person who has the honesty to say, "this is who I am on the inside." and to just try be that. I know I have tried, and my experience of being genderqueer has had its ups and downs, but I wouldn't and couldn't be anything else.

So, things sound rather difficult at the moment. I agree with the others that it makes a difference to share the journey. You are worthwhile. I am glad you found beyond blue and would love to have so many conversations on here with you about so many things.

Rob.

Withdrawal from world.

Moi — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 07:00:00 GMT

Hi Paul. Thank you so much for your kind words.

“Are you chatting with any other trans people regularly or are you in any social or support groups?” ... no. i used to, quite a lot, 2004-2009, but thereafter giving up really did mean giving up. I just saw no point. For me i eventually found only distress not comfort in these social liaisons. When i mixed with women who Passed [sorry, i know that term & concept is offensive to many, but it meant everything to me, in my weakness] it just saddened me deeply for the contrast. When i mixed with women who didn't pass, & who worried about it like i did, our mutual negative vibes just ended in irrevocable downward spirals. When i mixed with women who didn't pass, & who didn't give a fig about it nor the reactions of vanillas around them, it brought me very down coz (a) there was even more glare of unwanted notice on me, & (b) i hated myself for not being strong enough like them.

2003-2004 i was a Seahorse [< year]. This was scary, wonderful, fun, illuminating, & unexpectedly pivotal in my later self-discovery. I say this with no ill-will whatsoever, but i found the majority of members, nice as they were, to be “only” men in dresses. At that stage i still didn't know what i was, but that helped me to crystallise what i wasn't.

2004-2006 i was regularly at TGC, & not only was able to finally discover actually who/what i was, but i also gained much new practical knowledge, & made some lovely friendships. As the years passed & different life chapters arose for all, inevitably we all fell away. The closest friendship sadly summarily ended, with her suicide. Vale Paige.

“What sort of things to do you do to treat yourself?” ... pls see a “freestanding” post i'll be adding here after i reply to each kind respondent.

“what can you do to celebrate that you are still an amazing person? Nice perfume? Some beautiful clothes? a lovely meal ... a walk” ... Well, i disagree with the question's premise; i don't feel amazing at all. As i feel so false, fake, failed, i stopped indulging in nice things like perfume & new clothes years ago, When all i see in the mirror is that accursed tranny [or worse], any fripperies simply increase my humiliation & despair. It's much safer just not to go there. As for meals [if you meant out] or walks, i did mean what i initially wrote → i do not leave my house [i don't even go into the backyard, lest i be seen].

Despite my negativity, i do thank you again Paul. Your kindness is a tonic.

Withdrawal from world.

Moi — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 07:04:37 GMT

Hi Flirtie, fellow traveller! Thanks for responding.

“If you are personally uncomfortable with yourself it is very difficult to negotiate society because you feel inadequate” + “the idea of melting into the background is something that requires self belief ” + “if you are self loathing it will hinder you” ... you nailed it. Pls don't think this dismissive [coz i DO agree with you], but despite me being acutely aware of these tenets' veracity, & despite the few years of my earnestly striving to “fake it til you make it” & “hiding in plain sight”, i never mastered the former hence never achieved the latter. I stalled at the “fake” part.

“self acceptance has more impact than how you look. ... the worst thing we can do is to not accept ourselves” .. again i concur [to a point], but knowledge never translated to empowerment for me. Furthermore, whilst your words are noble, wrt the “how you look” part, pls remember my initial post's statement of objective. I HAD to pass... that was the raison d'etre. Failure to achieve that, is failure of everything - for me [not saying for anyone else, just me].

Ta but i eschew Facebook on principle; i vehemently reject its “privacy is dead, your info is our data” ethos, & will never join it. I do use Diaspora, but it's not very nourishing.

“What I feel you are missing is community” [from your other post reply, & ta for the kind words] ... you are surely correct, but...

Best wishes to you.

Withdrawal from world.

Moi — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 07:07:01 GMT

Hi Gruffudd / Rob

Many thanks for your generous words. Yes i suspect that i do know myself quite well... trouble is, i have never worked out how to successfully use that hard-earned self-awareness for the better. Over the years i have had many stern & forlorn conversations if not arguments with myself [does that sound a little bit bonkers?], but the trouble is, i've always got a smartarse rebuttal counter-argument against anything even half-sensible i might say. Ha, what a strange beast am i !

Best wishes to you.

Withdrawal from world.

Gruffudd — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 07:28:05 GMT

Hi Moi,

I would admit to arguing with myself too. I think it sounds perfectly reasonable.

I was wondering about your perfect world. You know the question, it goes like this: if everything was just fabulous in your life what would I notice about you and what would I notice about the world around you?

Usually when I as myself that there are some things I could go and change and some other things that are perhaps not going to happen. One more question though, are there things that others like us can do and say that make your life better?

Rob.

Withdrawal from world.

Moi — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 08:46:55 GMT

How to Fly - Part 1.

There's a section in Douglas Adams' wonderful “The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy” about teaching yourself how to fly by throwing yourself at the ground & missing. The trick is to be utterly distracted by something, anything, unrelated to the impending ground impact just before said impact. Once one masters this knack, the impact never occurs, & flying ensues instead. Not only is it wonderfully hilarious in its own right [i'm a HHGTTG, Red Dwarf, Hyperspace, Monty Python, Whovian tragic], but i've always thought it's a good metaphor for the art of being comfortable in one's own skin, regardless of how others perceive & react to that skin. Prior to my self-imposed isolation, there were various times when, distracted by something else, i was able to just Be, to enjoy friends' company, to feel good, to smile, maybe even laugh. On those comparatively rare occasions, somehow i did not hit the ground, & i flew. They seem but distant memories now, but i'd be lying if i denied their occurrences.

Given i'm recently retired, completely self-isolated, & thus have time to burn, i've been able to indulge my whims [in lieu of An Actual Life] in lots of pleasure reading [i particularly love classic 17th-19th century continental & English lit, most especially involving strong female characters]; lots of mucking about with Linux since i was delighted to discover & migrate to it a few years ago from Windows [it's another nice metaphor; with this OS i can truly customise & tweak stuff so that it perfectly reflects my sensibilities & values]; lots of online political, social & environmental activism [there's sadly always enough ghastly eco-vandal homophobic transphobic pollies & acolytes against whom to rail]; & stream lots of Netflix. All of these, in their own ways, represent other “distractions” which, for many hours & sometimes even continuous days & nights, manage to prevent me hitting the ground. It's not much, but it's something.

Wrt NF, actually i can directly attribute my recent decision [highly unusual for me] to lift my head & break radio silence by posting here & in a couple of other places over the past few days. Does that sound pretty weird? Here's why. My latest NF crushes for the past couple of weeks have been "The L Word", & most recently “Sense8”.

Withdrawal from world.

Moi — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 08:52:56 GMT

How to Fly - Part 2.

TLW: this was a revelation to me, & i fell deeply in “love”, or at least completely entranced, by these strong women, fiercely loyal to each other [um, well, apart from all the sleeping around, ha], supporting & nurturing each other, rallying around, sharing laughs & tears, & not giving a flying fook about negative opinions of others. I admire them so much, & am so jealous... this eventually morphed into me sinking into an even deeper despond at the stark contrast with my “life”.

S8: Oh. My. Goodness. This Show!!!. I love it more than i can describe. It ticks all my boxes; SciFi, imagination & innovation, humour, drama, love, diversity, loyalty, steadfastness, resilience. It is stunning beyond words. For me though, the killer is the characterisation & actualisation of main protagonists Nomi & Amanita... OMZ. Such wondrous love [spiritual & physical] between fabulous post-op MTF incredible woman Nomi [Jamie Clayton] & her fiercesome fabulous lesbian lover & soulmate Amanita [Freema Agyeman]. I care deeply for all the characters, but this pair in particular moved me constantly to tears. Unfortunately similar to TLW, this also inevitably forced me to abruptly see the ground again & fall hard onto it; the utter stark contrasts to me have been nearly too much to bear. I reached out here, in the hope it might help me to bear up.

Jenny Boylan's “She's Not There” paints a chillingly parallel reality also for my “life”, well, at least the earlier parts. Like me she also grew up as a b** increasingly confused about what the hell was going on, what did it all mean, why did “h*” have these thoughts & feel this way? Naturally in those pre-Internet days, there were no ready answers. Just like me, so heartbreakingly like me, she eventually fell in love with a wonderful woman, & was convinced, utterly convinced, that whatever all that earlier confusing swirl of WTF was, now finally with the love of a good woman she would be “cured”, nee “saved”, & all would finally be well, all those strange ideas & feelings would vanish. Sigh. Never were there more wrong hopes.

Withdrawal from world.

Moi — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 09:00:28 GMT

How to Fly - Part 3.

Thereafter our parallels severely diverged. Whereas Jenny had the good fortune of a loving partner who elected to understand, stay, care, nurture & be nurtured, i ... didn't. When i had first fallen in love with Her, i felt emotionally a foot taller. She was my love, my lover, my soulmate, my friend & confidante... & my secret saviour. Once, all those years later, my secret [that i assumed would stay within me to my grave] astonishingly burst from my lips [none more surprised than me], the end came swift & bitterly. I lost far far more than that emotional foot; i was chopped in two. I have never had the maturity or emotional strength to recover from that, even all these years later, & despite the somewhat amazing twists & turns my life took since. That loss, coupled with kinda similar losses of three deep longterm friendships [for the same repudiation & rejection reasons] crippled me emotionally. I decided after all that horrible stuff, though now years ago, that i never ever wanted to feel such intense emotional pain & destruction again, so i would never place myself in a position of vulnerability by getting close to anyone, ever again. My subsequent rejection of myself, as outlined in my original posts, only made the imperative of self-imposed “hermititude” even more compelling. The best i find i can do, is to potter along, looking for each little opportunity to distract myself for temporary avoidance of the ground. Fly for brief periods of respite, & hope each next ground strike will be not too painful. <>

PS - I've now tried 3X to reply to you Flirtie, but they've all disappeared, despite some of my later posts already appearing. I'm confused -- sorry!

Withdrawal from world.

Gruffudd — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 09:45:14 GMT

I like that idea, how to fly. I am skilled in being easily distracted.

When I first became aware that my gender was different to other kids I remember becoming easily distracted all the time. I was 11 so the options were limited to deal with it or get away. As an adult I can't even manage to appear androgynous, my hair fell out and whilst it seems like vanity to some, looking more male is emotionally difficult. So I was thinking about what you said about 'passing', I think it has an effect, certainly on how people treat me but majorly on how I treat myself. Personally I still like what is on the inside.

Withdrawal from world.

Moi — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 10:23:54 GMT

Hi again Rob

Golly, tricky questions! Let's see.

“if everything was just fabulous in your life what would I notice about you and what would I notice about the world around you?” ... Me: You'd notice a nondescript unambiguous woman, with a ready smile, a wry sense of humour, liberally wielding irony, satire & metaphor, happy to help people [if wanted], & willing to take an emotional risk. World: Peace, harmony, equality, happiness, health, safety, food security, no global warming [coz we fully decarbonised & widely deployed renewable energy], polity that valued people & environment over corporate balance sheets. Yeah, i know...

“are there things that others like us can do and say that make your life better?” ... it's already happening, via the kind & generous responses here. Grateful moi.

PS - Now i'm really really confused. Not only have all 3 replies to Flirtie seemingly vanished into a wormhole, but now also "How to Fly - Part 2" has vanished, which means that Part 1 is not properly finished, & Part 3 is significantly decontextualised. Maybe tomorrow they'll appear?

Withdrawal from world.

Moi — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 10:33:11 GMT

"Personally I still like what is on the inside" ... well, i'd suggest that's a considerable asset to have on your side. I congratulate you for it, & wish you well.

Withdrawal from world.

Gruffudd — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 10:44:54 GMT

I think there have been some random things happening with posts lately and it is confusing. I know that the magic computer people behind the scenes will know what to do to fix it.

My immediate thought when I read your description of yourself is that it matches the Moi that I have been communicating with. I feel rather lucky there and guess that it is what comes across. So much of what I see when I look at someone is tied up in their personality and the what they look like is secondary for me.

Your world sounds sustainable in every way from gender to politics to pollution. It would be a great future.

Withdrawal from world.

sarah_beth — Sat, 21 May 2016 13:04:27 GMT

i have pondered going down the same path as you,i knew I was different at a very young age trapped in a male body tried hard to fit in with what was expected of me as a male.got married done the father thing still it wasn't my life it was what was expected of me.in my youth people like me were not to be seen or herd of,still to this day I live in hideing shunned by my family for be different.i have no help from my gp he is a bloky guy not one you would talk to.depressed as I get I battle on I live as a woman at home that's as good as it gets for me......sarah beth.

Withdrawal from world.

Gruffudd — Mon, 23 May 2016 09:11:19 GMT

Hello Sarah beth,

Welcome to the forums, and thankyou for sharing where you are at. It sounds rather isolating. I wonder if it is possible to make things better. Is it possible to find a different GP? What would it take for you to meet others in our community near you who have gone through similar things in life?

I am more then happy to hang out with you on these forums and talk and listen. I do like the name Sarah beth, what makes it a special name for you?

Rob.

Re: Withdrawal from world.

Moi — Wed, 05 Oct 2022 04:21:31 GMT

Me, again [Part 1, care of post character limits]. Sorry for the bother.

I find it nearly impossible to grasp that ~6 years somehow have passed since I created this thread. How on earth did that happen? Can these posts' dates be true? Wasn't it only last month, or maybe the one before, when I wrote? Quite astounding.

Well, anyway, Time has changed, but nothing else has [in any good way], in my personal context. Exhibit A; a diary note I made to myself earlier today:

>Yet another fscked night of broken-sleep crying.

>One more of so soooooo many. Cried myself to sleep, multiple wake-ups crying, crying again at the final wake-up before the inevitable futility of dragging myself out of bed for another pointless day of being, fulsome with my repetitive useless hermititude.

\
>Also, one of the wake-ups with howling was caused by a tenaciously-persistent dream that's haunted me for yonks... I've never really understood it, but I presume it's some kind of subconscious metaphor for my existential angst. I never remember the preamble, but always remember the crux, which is... I am driving, approach a corner, begin steering into it, but then my arms inexplicably become as heavy as lead & I simply can't keep turning the wheel enough, so the car fails to take the bend & I crash catastrophically, prompting me to wake up screaming.

Otoh, my gallows-humour derives a tiny bit of ironic mirth from this recurrence, given I drove for four decades over hundreds of thousands of kilometres without any crashes, & a few years ago I chose to give up my licence & give my car away in preference to the agony of having to leave my house & Be Seen by people, for licence renewal, rego, & all associated car-owning rituals. I came to the view that for someone too afraid to leave her house, a car in the garage was a pointless expense, generating additional stress for no purpose. Yet, that dream cares not...