topic 20C in Young people

20C

mandy6 — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:48:38 GMT

Hello group of friendly or problem facing people

So, i have been here a few times and although I have changed since my first post I feel this is largely due to the fact that I stopped caring about anything and I started to not give about what people thought. I am in high school and am constantly feeling depressed. I have also begun to stop trusting anyone and am always extremely cynical. furthermore I realized that I don't care if I have friends because whether some one is my friend or not they still seem to treat me the same way.

the real reason i have come here is to ask for some advice about a problem.

THE PROBLEM: every time i meet someone who has a quality which i dislike or does something i think is either rude or stupid or mean or annoying or just undesirable I consciously avoid doing that thing. for example when someone you know starts talking to you about something really simple as if they are talking about a complex issue and they assume you have no knowledge about it even though it's just something really obvious and then they act like their the best because they told you about this idea. or when people always agree with you even when you start the conversation with a debatable idea and people just don't want to argue so they just agree. or when people don't accept a compliment or fish for compliments. there are more. now i have become a void of nothing because I realised that i actually hate every quality about every person and I can't possibly do something which I hate in other people, but instead i have become this boring nothingness and I hate this more than anything else in the world.

the other thing which makes me angry and feel isolated and then depressed is that no one seems to share the same opinions as me on anything, or when I do something differently to everyone else (which happens often) rather than people supporting me they are just condescending and gossipy. what's worse i have a really bad anger problem and am always so angry at things which other people don't seem to give a damn about.

what i'm really trying to ask is how do you become an interesting person who who doesn't hate themselves and how do you make friends who aren't phony and furthermore how do you keep them?

thanks

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BeeGee — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 12:28:25 GMT

Hi Mandy,

I haven't been around here very long so I haven't run into you before. I apologise up front if I say things that have already been said before.

I'm 48. You probably think you have nothing in common with me - I'm an old guy, you're a young girl - it doesn't get more different. Actually though, we're possibly more alike than you may think. In fact, I've just been diagnosed with depression a couple of months ago, but looking back I can see that it started when I was around 14 and was never picked up. I got so used to it that it became my "normal" and I just assumed this is what life is like.

I have been, over most of my life, a pretty judgemental and critical person. Even if I don't say anything, I'm often making judgements about people and writing them off in my mind while I keep up the polite mask. I hate that I do it and I've tried so hard over the years to stop, but it just seems like an automatic process. The fact that I judge myself just as harshly doesn't make it any better - but I'm seeing now that it's my depression that has distorted my thinking and I'm looking forward to learning ways of overcoming it with treatment.

You are luckier than me - you perhaps at least realise that you are or may be suffering from depression. That's awesome! I only wish I had had the same insight at the same age. If you haven't seen a GP yet about this, maybe think about doing so - this is the first step in starting a treatment program.

I don't know about your family situation; if your relationship with your parents is OK it would be good to get them involved, but if not - you can see a GP by yourself. If you're 16+ you can even get your own Medicare card.

The bottom line is that it looks to me that your thinking is a little disordered and sounds a lot like depression. You can't just try harder and get over it. The feelings that you have about yourself and others are products of depression. Trying to change the symptoms without dealing with the underlying illness will not succeed. Believe me, I tried it for years - it doesn't work.

If this seems too hard there are lots of people here who will help you through it. Don't be like me and end up regretting not having recognised and dealt with depression 30 years ago.

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SubduedBlues — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 13:00:55 GMT

Hi Mandy

Friends in High School, unfortunately there is no easy answer to that question. Firstly, let me start by saying I haven't been in HS since the late 70's so my advice might seem a bit out of date. But I think the underlying principles should remain true, even if the technology has changed.

I attended two Junior HS and three Senior HS's, as my family moved about the country a lot. Thus, I was always having to start over; learn new slang language; and make new friends. Back in the 70's very few people wore glasses (I'd wager a guess and say less than 1 in 1000) and I wore them. So I was always starting on the back foot.

I was not a sports person. I did not have high-achieving grades. I brought something different to school. At first I was weird, through perseverance I was accepted. Cable TV came out in the mid 70s, so I spent a lot of time watching documentaries on all types of subjects. What this did for me is I learned a lot about a lot of topics. No matter what the subject of discussion was -- I knew something about it. And I would use this vast knowledge to help people understand, through the application of the principles and translating one subject matter to another subject matter that the person I was speaking to was familiar with.

And this skill I still use today in business. e.g. at work we were migrating from one computing platform to another. The vendor asked us to confirm that our systems would all operate on the new platform, but was unable to confirm end specification of the new architecture. I translated this as: imaging you are moving house. They would like you to confirm that all of your furnishing will fit into the new house, comfortably and without issue. But, they can't tell you how many rooms there are or how big the rooms will be.

Ok, so I was and still am a geek. My point is, not that do what I did, but that you find something that you are interested in and become an expert in that subject matter. Now, as an expert you don't tell people what it is or how it should be, it's more you listen to what they have to say and then guide them to the correct answer. When they are obviously going down the wrong direction, don't say that is wrong, ask them why they being it is right. Ask them if they have considered this _____ (provide part of the correct solution). The person that people want to be around is not the one that knows all the answers, but the one that helps them achieve the right answers.

I hope this makes sense.

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mandy6 — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 11:46:12 GMT

Hi BeeGee,

thanks for the advice. I really like the BeeGees.

I have thought about seeing a doctor for a while now but every time I decide against it. is it really that important to have a treatment plan and is it really that difficult to deal with the problems yourself? I suppose I don't want to be changed by some temporary chemicals which i eventually become reliant upon. is this how it works when you are put on a treatment plan, you take your medication and feel a false sense of euphoria for a couple of hours until the effects ware off? is it not possible to just get over it over a period of time?

at the moment everything for me is false. for example I can wake up one day and say to myself, " today i'm going to be happy about everything" or "I will be enthusiastic" and then being as genuine as i can possibly ever remember feeling I become this. I know these emotions are completely false however I am unable to distinguish them from any real emotions. this has become quite confusing of late because I just can't tell if i'm truly reacting to a situation or if i'm telling myself i should react in a particular way. like when someone dies or is injured or says something funny I know how i'm supposed to feel, how other people feel in these situations and so I just follow suit to be normal but it's the complete opposite.

also I hate my family and have no friends so basically this site is the only thing i have going for me at the moment and i really appreciate your advice. 🙂

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mandy6 — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 11:58:05 GMT

hi D'jected,

you sound like a well measure genius, basically my goal in life is to be like what you described. so all of your advice is extremely uplifting as it makes it so clear that to be this ideal is achievable.

i have never changed shcools and don't know many people out of school and your post has made me think that maybe there is a problem with the people I am around. Just reading your post made me happy, maybe it's the unwillingness of the people around me to help which has made me feel so bad about myself? furthermore their selfish attempts to be the one's who stand out and in order to achieve this push everyone aside. they become the best not because they actually are but because they are bullies and self entitled? am i just unnecessarily criticizing everyone? do you think people have more good in them than what I think??

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BeeGee — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:58:35 GMT

Ah yes, the acting. If you've read through some of the threads here you will have found people talking about "wearing masks" and "acting". I got very good at emulating emotions - so convincing I even convinced myself and couldn't tell the difference any more. I couldn't tell that I actually wasn't feeling anything at all.

That's depression. When you find yourself going through the motions but there's nothing really behind the face, that's a pretty good sign that you are depressed. People often think about depression as someone being sad all the time. It can be like that for some, but often it can actually be loss of connection with our emotional selves.

I understand what you are saying when you are wary of antidepressants - as if they are a fake mood enhancer - an upper basically. This is a common misconception. ADs actually don't do anything at all when you take one, or two, or even for a few weeks. They actually work over time to change your brain chemistry, because in depressed people there is a shortage of certain neurotransmitters. The most common ADs, called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) work by slowing the brain's garbage collection system when getting rid of free serotonin (a brain neurotransmitter) in your synapses (the gap between nerves). This changes the balance of neurotransmitters and pushes it back towards a normal range. In other words, once established, depression is a chemical imbalance in your brain. You can't just wish it away.

A GP's mental health plan may or may not include ADs; if it does, they may only be temporary while you learn new ways of thinking. For some people they are needed long term but others just need a leg up as a temporary measure. The plan will also include 10 Medicare funded sessions with a psychologist, who will use proven techniques to help you change your thought patterns and get out of negative thought habits. There's more to it than just trying hard to be positive; the techniques they can teach you, you can carry with you and use for the rest of your life.

So - I really encourage you to start with a GP visit. Just talk it over with him/her, share your fears and concerns, and work together to figure out a way forward. In the end it's up to you to decide what to do; the GP can only advise you. You are clearly a can-do kind of person and I applaud your determination to get through this. I believe you can - with the right help. Of course we are here for you too.

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AGrace — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 13:01:41 GMT

Hi mandy,

Welcome back to the forums.

I may be wrong but I'm picking up 2 things from your post. Firstly that you have lost your sense of self. Hence you are trying to act in ways that you think are acceptable or at least the expected. Secondly you have a lot of anger and this emotion is clouding all of your thoughts. It's kind of like looking at the world through angry glasses.

I will say it's common for teenagers to have that feeling that they don't really know who they are. As a teenager your still exploring your likes and dislikes. Your finding out where you fit in this world, and your learning how you relate to others. Sadly schools are a breeding ground for clusters of young people. One day you are friends with a particular group, the next day you're questioning why? Schools also provide the platform to start exploring all of your attributes. You don't need to know everything just yet.

What is less common is this blanket of anger you are caught up in. Whilst you're experiencing anger everything seems negative. The smallest things irritate you. There is a lot of internal and external blame. It'a difficult for you to see beyond anger and frustration.

Have you thought about where the anger comes from? Is it to do with the hatred of your family?

Where to next? I was saying on another post earlier that I'm yet to meet someone who has gotten over a mental illness on their own. Do you really need to go to a GP? My response would be yes. You can then seek the help of a Psychologist. You don't have to take medication, however I'll say the medications don't give you a false euphoric sense. They just help to lift a bit of the fog, so you are better able to think rationally and logically. You will also get a proper diagnosis so you start to get the best care.

Have you attempted to make friends outside of school? Joining some groups or clubs could be a good idea.

People are genuinely good people. The anger in you is preventing you from seeing this.

Look forward to hearing more from you.

AGrace

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mandy6 — Sat, 16 Aug 2014 00:54:56 GMT

hi again

I really don't want to go in circles and I feel this post will do just that. I have been wanting to go to a GP for a while, especially before I found this site, but I have never been to one before. My father happens to be a GP and so any time I have been sick I usually ask him for help. the thing is that we don't have a very good relationship and I would never tell him about my problems so I would have to find another doctor to go to. the problem is that my mother is very controlling and doesn't work so she is always at home. she insists that she knows where I go all of the time and gives me no freedom. so the problem is that I don't know how to get to a doctor in secret and then be able to keep it a secret. I would never tell my family about my problems because they are all rude, immoral, judgmental, morons.
how should i go and see a doctor?

also in the first post you mentioned that I am luckier because I have realised that there is something wrong but i feel like the opposite is true. once you can put a name to something it seems to become truer and more evident and more real. before i realized that I was depressed I thought that what i felt was normal and I was okay with that and I could accept it. now I am always consciously thinking about this problem and i can't just ignore it or dismiss it as being normal or unimportant.

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mandy6 — Sat, 16 Aug 2014 01:09:32 GMT

hi AGrace,

is it really normal "for teenagers to have that feeling that they don't really know who they are"? I have created this alter ego like personality for myself that everyone I know is shown. and i feel that i've done this because now if anyone insults me their not really insulting but but are insulting this thing that i pretend to be. because of this I am always lying about and to myself to the point that I can't even tell the difference. I have become so good at pretending, to the point that to ensure this falseness is not detected by anyone i have made people believe that i'm a really bad liar. so I tell lies on top of the lies. this is really bad and rude and I hate myself for it!! and now if stop lying and show everyone the true me they will think i'm lying. what have I gotten myself into???

also about finding other groups to make friends in, this is basically impossible at this stage because I am in yr 12 and spend all of my time either at school or studying.

also finally are people really genuinely good? because all of the people around me though they may be trying to be good, their inability to think about situations and the repercussions makes them always do stupid and immoral things. and most of the people are also selfish and try to exercise their power over everyone around them which really annoys me.

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BeeGee — Sat, 16 Aug 2014 03:46:23 GMT

Hey Mandy,

That's a tough situation with your parents. Do you mind if I ask how old you are? This might help me try to understand your situation a bit better and think about the options available to you.

The trick with relating to other people is to try and put yourself in their shoes, to see the world the way they do - whether or not you agree with their position or perspective. With your dad, as a GP he has a professional commitment to respecting the privacy and autonomy of all his patients. He can advise and make recommendations but he will understand that ultimately it is the choice of his patient as to whether or not to accept and implement his advice - or indeed whether to even keep seeing him. As your dad, he feels a reponsibility to provide for your wellbeing. It's an understandable confusion of roles, and one of the reasons why it's not recommended that doctors treat family members. It interferes with their objectivity and they may make clinically relevant decisions differently for family members that may turn out not to be in their best interests. In the end, the "best interests of the patient" is what matters. If you are able to see this situation his way, you can make a logical case to him that you feel it's best for you to see a non-family GP for your health issues, as you don't feel you can necessarily disclose to him all issues that may affect your health, and thus may not be able to receive the right treatments. If you can keep the conversation focussed on his perspective as a doctor rather than your father you might be surprised at how effective this is.

If you can get your father on board this way, then the issue with your mother should take care of itself, at least in terms of getting agreement for you to be able to see a doctor for your health needs. You don't need to discuss your issues with them; part of your discussion can be that you have reached an age where you feel the need to be able to start exercising some responsibility for your own health, and that you'd like your right to privacy to be respected. This may be a difficult conversation if your mother is controlling, but even if it doesn't go well it's a good idea to start getting her to consider these sorts of ideas. It may take her time to adjust, but if you can argue your case calmly, rationally and without it turning into a confrontation I think you are more likely to get the outcomes you want.

Good luck!

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AGrace — Sat, 16 Aug 2014 06:23:13 GMT

Hi mandy,

Is it really normal? Yes.

Is it normal to have created this false identity, whereby you feel like you've told so many lies that now you need to lie on top of the lies? No.

May I ask you to google Borderline Personality Disorder? I am no expert, and obviously can't give you any form of diagnosis, but I'd be interested to hear if you feel you can relate to some of the symptoms/criteria.

You mentioned you can't speak to your parents about this. What would their response be if you told them you were really struggling? If your dad is a Dr, then you would think he would understand. You don't have to like them in order to seek their help.

Have you spoken with your student counsellor? At least you could do this while at school. Do you have any siblings? Are there any places your mum would let you go? Can you not just say you are going to a friends place and then go to the Dr instead? In case you would like the information, there is a list of GPs available on BB's website. They all specialise in mental health.

I understand that doing year 12 can be very demanding. Do you allow yourself time to do anything other than study? Not having any downtime can exacerbate your stress levels.

I get that you don't like knowing what's wrong with you, but who diagnosed you with depression? Maybe this is not what you have, Which is why it's important that you see a Dr or counsellor.

AGrace

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SubduedBlues — Sat, 16 Aug 2014 12:56:29 GMT

Mandy

Sorry, I've been offline for a couple of days. I've tried to catch up by reading through your dialogue with the others here.

Since you're in yr12 now, it's not long before uni/tafe/tech and a whole new world opens up. New people from different schools and with many new and exciting viewpoints. Personally I joined the Marines.

A couple of things I learned after high school, that I wish I knew in high school.

1. Be wary of "confirmational bias".

This is where first we preconceive an idea or notion about someone or something (like I know that person cheats); then we actively look for evidence that confirms and spports our preconceptions. Just so we can say to ourselves: "I was right."

2. We "always" have a choice.

There is never an instance where you are left with no choice. People often do stupid things or break rules or make bad decisions solely because they think they have no other choice. Fact is, there is always another choice. True, the other choice may be undesirable, expensive or not deliver your preferred outcome, but the choice is still there. So when someone tells me that they had to do it because they haf no other choice, I understand what they mean is they chose to do it because to do otherwise was undesirable for them.

Lastly, there is good and bad in everyone. Did I preconceive an idea that this person is goid or bad? And am I choosing to see the real truth, or my preferred truth because the real truth is undesirable to me and unsupportive of my preconceived notion about this person?

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mandy6 — Sat, 16 Aug 2014 13:36:30 GMT

beegee

i'm 17,

I appreciate your help, the only problem with your suggestion is that you assume my father is a reasonable and understanding person which is untrue, at least not for situations relating to the family. however i understand that I do need to step into other people's shoes more often in order to understand them and their situation.

agrace,

i sorry to have been misleading it was not my intention and i'm sorry. I have not been diagnosed as depressed by a professional, and i'm so sorry for not making this clear from the start.

what i'm about is going to make me sound like a complete idiot but i can't help it. the thing is if I told my parents they would begin worrying and caring about me, and then they would either tell me to suck it up because what is a mental disorder really? Anyone can put a name to something then say it exists or start calling it a problem which makes you abnormal. or maybe big pharma are trying to make more money so are slowly picking out symptoms which may or may not need to be treated and start calling them different things?? who even decides what the normal everything is compared to is? are there really any strong grounds supporting mental illnesses? either that response or they will be all caring and be worried and try to spend more time with me and stop leaving me alone in my room so often, and start whispering about me to other people in the room while i'm still standing there thinking that me telling them this information suddenly makes me a deaf idiot.

also if i seek their help they will think I care about their opinion. they will also be like ohh "mandy needs my help she must be in really big trouble" and then make a really big deal out of it (because i hardly ever talk to them especially about my problems so they will blow the situation way out of proportion.

OK maybe that was a bit OTT.

I looked up borderline personality disorder and it basically explains me, but you always hear about people who "have nothing wrong with them" (whatever that means) who read the wiki page on mental illnesses and when they finish reading they realize they have at least 10 different disorders.

finally about the Councillor i haven't been to see her but have considered it. should I go to see her??