topic Becoming emotionally numb... in Young people

Becoming emotionally numb...

PrincessMilktea — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 16:50:11 GMT

I'm beginning to lose my emotions, or at least, the intensity of my emotions have declined. I have no life passions/motivations and this didn't bother me so much before, but recently after some existential angst/depression (where I've logically concluded that life is ultimately meaningless for reasons too long to share here) I've become less and less motivated to continue functioning like normal. I'm currently 17 and I see no point in pursuing a degree in economics anymore (I only chose this subject out of mild interest that isn't deep enough to be called a passion) and now I am more or less going through the motions of this prosaic existence but no longer find myself feeling any satisfaction or even dissatisfaction. Occasionally I get a dull ache in my chest because I find everything is unstimulating/predictable/boring and I have tried therapy, but my therapist doesn't know what to do with me after I explained my reasons for being a nihilist.

I believe that my nihilism wouldn't be a problem if I at least had some pleasurable activities I could partake in regularly, but nothing (that I can reasonably do at my age/budget) so far has given me pleasure and I can only assume that drugs/alcohol will help. Obviously I'm aware that this is unhealthy, and so I'm leaning towards something less harmful like antidepressants, however I can't access the prescription and money for this because I don't want my parents to know I'm depressed/anhedonic. Before you advise me to tell them, just know that they are from a somewhat "backwards thinking" culture that doesn't understand mental illness and depression very well, and will probably find it a burden or cause for stress if they have to deal with me. This is not because they don't care, but because they don't understand it and I'd rather not have to placate them when I barely know how to deal with it myself. I also have insomnia, and the last time I tried to explain it to them, it caused me a lot of anxiety and upset because I couldn't communicate to them in a way they could comprehend. I'd be grateful for some advice (and yes I do have a stable social life, I do normal teenage girl things like going to the movies and attending parties, however I'm almost always faking my excitement and honestly feel nauseated from being around other young people. I feel most isolated/lonely when I'm in a crowd as opposed to being alone because I feel like our differing life views just punctuates my social insularity further).

Becoming emotionally numb...

White_Rose — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 18:40:30 GMT

Hello Princess

I must admit I have not come across this difficulty before. If nihilism is correct I have to wonder how the human race has survived for so long. Even the animals find life has a purpose. To be born, grow and die seems a pointless exercise unless the growing is filled with life, laughter, joy, experiments in life and at time sadness. However you have not written here to discuss nihilism so I will move on except to comment that Nietzsche was diagnosed insane when he died.

Let me start with your parents. They are a product of their generation. No idea how old they are but guessing from your age I presume your parents are likely to be late 30s or early 40s. Mental illness has been a taboo subject for many years at least in Western culture. I believe the background for this has been the extreme behaviours caused by mental illness before the medical community starting to develop good treatments. It was shameful to have a MI and families went to great lengths to disguise this. Hardly surprising the effect has lingered and is only now MI is accepted.

I can well imagine your parent's distress to learn their daughter is unwell but I think you do them a disservice by hiding it. On Beyond Blue we are a community of people with various types of MI. Many are your parent's age or older and struggle with coping. Others come here to get help to cope with a child's MI and genuinely try to learn as much as possible. I am not suggesting you discuss this with them unless you wish.

You are old enough to have your own Medicare card. Some doctors will bulk bill for those on low incomes. I suggest you ask your usual doctor what is the policy of that medical practice for teenagers. Have you thought of getting a part time job? This will make a visit to your GP feasible and you will also be able to pay for any prescriptions. Remember your GP cannot discuss your medical condition with your parents without your permission. If you had decided that drugs and alcohol were a good way to go, how would you pay for these?

Do you receive any pocket money from your parents? You could by your prescription meds with this. In any event I think a discussion with your GP is essential. How did you find a therapist previously? Is this a psychologist or psychiatrist?

You say you do not want to pursue a degree in economics. Are you already studying in uni? Change your course an do something that is more attractive to you. Take a gap year. I hope you will continue posting.

Mary

Becoming emotionally numb...

PrincessMilktea — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 19:38:00 GMT

Hi Mary, my therapist was for my insomnia and my vice principal was the one who referred me to her. I believe she was a psychiatrist (not sure, never thought to ask). As for a part-time job, I'm far too busy completing my HSC this year to consider it, and my parents would never allow me to work at this time even if I wanted to. I don't necessarily get pocket money, my parents are of the belief that should I want anything, I need only to ask them to cover any expenses I might incur (which of course brings us to the not wanting them to know I'm depressed dilemma).

And I wasn't serious about the drugs/alcohol thing, though I do have friends who could provide me with both if I wanted to. As for my nihilism, it's uncommon to find others of the same belief simply because most people don't think that far or merely don't care because even if life is meaningless, it doesn't mean you can't live like a hedonist and so pleasure becomes an incentive for them to live a happy life. My problem arises because I don't know what makes me happy, nothing I try or do seems to work (and no uni degree holds any real appeal to me, economics was the half-hearted choice I made after lollygagging in indecision for so long). I simply have a problem with entertaining myself long enough to live out the mediocrity of existence (uni, work, friends, marriage, kids, retirement, death). All these things are an exhausting chain of events I'm not entirely convinced is meaningful or worthwhile for me, though they may be for you.

Also, Nietzsche died of pneumonia I believe (there is still much debate on this, many believe it was syphilis, others opt for dementia, could've been opium, take your pick). He suffered from medical conditions that have more to do with an actual neural defect than an intellectual or existential one, if that's what you were implying by saying he was going insane. But thanks for the advice, I might consider seeing my GP if all else fails.

Becoming emotionally numb...

White_Rose — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 22:09:51 GMT

Hello Princess

Thanks for your reply. I was saying that when Nietzsche died he was already mentally unwell. I'm unaware of the actual cause of death.

If you saw a psychiatrist you would have needed a referral from your GP in order for Medicare to give you a rebate. Paying the full fee would have been in the order of $200 - $300, possibly more.

Have you read Man's Search for Reason by Viktor Frankl? He was one of the Viennese trio, though I cannot recall the exact title. Frankl was a Jewish psychiatrist caught up in WWII. He was sent to several concentration camps and survived. The book is not about the horrors of these camps or war. It is his observations of life in the camps and who lived/who died. He believed men (people) lived or died because they had/had not purpose in life. I found it a readable book once I grasped it was not a horror story. You may find it interesting and something that stands against nihilism.

OK I can see you do not have access to your own money. Sad really. I used to give my daughters an amount every week for doing jobs and also to buy their own clothes. How they spent it was up to them. We believed in allowing to learn about budgeting in a safe place as once they left school and uni they needed this skill to manage in the world. A pity you cannot suggest this to your parents as a useful skill. However I also realise it sounds as though I am suggesting you deceive your parents and that is definitely not my intention.

As far as uni is concerned, do you need to make that decision now? I suggested above that you take a gap year. Many students find it difficult to make the transition to uni from school and have found taking a year off in between is helpful. During this time you could either find a job or engage in voluntary work, eg. working in your local animal centre caring for these animals. Of course there are other avenues. These are merely suggestions which may resonate with you.

Looking for happiness tends to be a self-defeating task. Happiness is what we feel for short period because of a particular set of circumstances. It's not something we can hang on to. Mostly people settle for reason and contentment, very different attitudes to life. I suspect your nihilism may stem from what I see as the desire to amass as much as possible of this worlds goods which only leads to wanting more and satisfying less.

It sounds as though your parents take very great care of you which may feel claustrophobic.

Mary

Becoming emotionally numb...

Dorian_Gray — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 23:19:57 GMT

Princess Milktea

You’re clearly a highly intelligent and articulate person especially for you age, to have come to such a conclusion is interesting, often people take much longer to realise some of the things you now understand. I can’t offer a huge amount in the way of advice but will make an attempt.

I can understand Nihilism and in large part share it, I see no point to existence overall, at best one might, as you indicate, live hedonistically based on what one considers pleasurable (which as you note differs for each individual). You are correct, very few people, therapists included, understand such a point of view, and by and large become very uncomfortable when you raise such issues as it forces them to think about their life in a way they would rather avoid.

You could perhaps go through a listing of hobbies or activities you haven’t tried, seeking any needed funding from your parents, in an attempt to find something that does interest you…off the top of my head I would suggest something like puzzles or complex video/card games, or perhaps a debating website, as I suspect you need a high intellectual level of stimulation to keep you interested. Perhaps even a teenage romance if you can find someone you like.

As someone further down the track from you (30 having had nihilistic views since around 16) there is some benefit in going through the motions of life, to the extent that it fills the time, and in particular study can assist in getting a relatively better paid job and hence assist in accumulating funds so that in the event you do find something that gives you pleasure you are able to attain it all the more easily. I suspect you’re more than capable of easily succeeding in an economics, or any other degree, and for this reason would suggest you definitely do a degree in something, even if you switch out of economics later at least get into university, as whilst you don’t necessarily have to have all the things you listed (marriage, kids, friends) you will need money to survive.

In addition I would suggest arranging either via therapist or GP to get a blood test of some kind to check for any imbalances, if you lack of emotion has been sudden it could be something hormonal.

Hope you're doing well in your HSC, and definitely use this forum to find some ideas and chat with people who have had similar view points.

Becoming emotionally numb...

PrincessMilktea — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 23:32:52 GMT

I received a mental health care plan for my insomnia from my GP (if that helps explain away the confusion). As far as I recall the service was free after that, but obviously paying for medication wasn't. And no I can't say I have read that book, I'll add it to my reading list. Though I guess you could say my belief in nihilism is fairly concrete until logic/facts prove otherwise, but thanks for the recommendation I'll try it out.

As for uni decisions, I don't have to choose now, but I also don't believe taking a gap year will be helpful either. To put this into context, I'm currently doing something called distance education (which is basically like home-schooling), I go here because I have severe insomnia and learning from home will be better for my ability to retain information. Currently I'm doing my HSC over a 2 year course because I've been absent a lot in my previous school, and so I have a lot of time my hands now and consider this to be my "gap year". I've thought about my future career to ad nauseam and honestly, I know for a fact that I have no real passion/dream that I want to achieve and economics is the closest I'm going to get. I feel like I am not really living, but merely existing because of this.

Emotionally I've begun to shut down too, I truly feel apathetic to the world and it's concerns, and unlike my peers, I don't feel any excitement for my future. I barely look forward to waking up. On the up side, my insomnia has gotten a lot better from this onset of depression and emotional numbness, I tend to sleep in for longer hours now and it's honestly become a way for me to combat any negative feelings I get. I know you think I'm trying to amass happiness but in reality I'm really just desperate for something other than this constant apathy or depression. I don't need to be happy, I can settle for contentment or simple satisfaction.

Thanks for talking to me Mary, I definitely feel a little better talking about this to someone.

Becoming emotionally numb...

PrincessMilktea — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 06:26:58 GMT

Hi Dorian Grey, it's nice to see someone else who shares my point of view without trying to convert me otherwise (the username immediately settled my worries, and I knew I found a fellow hedonist in you).

In terms of hobbies I'm already into gaming and I'm also an active debater in real life (though I've come to a point where I no longer feel inclined to win a debate against others, unless those people are close to me or otherwise important to my existence). As for romance...well my tastes range to older men so that will be awkward to introduce to the parents. That aside I also feel like entering a relationship with so much emotional baggage and cynicism will be unfair on my partner, and would rather delay all that until I'm unencumbered with depression/angst. But thanks for the suggestions, I will try to find more hobbies as soon as my HSC is over.

And yes I understand the importance of money, hence why I concluded that a degree in economics will be a lucrative career so at the very least I can afford to do things that actually make me happy even if the job doesn't. The problem is staying motivated until I get there, which hopefully I can fix by getting some antidepressants to quell any negative emotion. I find negativity to be useless and an inefficient use of my time, but unfortunately you can't always reason with your emotions no matter how irrational they may be (here is the crux of the problem). But I'm very interested to learn how you managed to survive this long, I've always extrapolated in my head that nihilists generally have a shorter life expectancy than others and so you're age is a surprise to me, perhaps there's some hope after all.

Thanks for the suggestions, but I've already had a blood test done (for my insomnia) and I'm completely healthy. I suspect my dwindling emotions have more to do with an actual disinterest in people and common human aspirations rather than something hormonal. Thanks again for chatting with me, very useful in alleviating some internal anarchy going on in me right now.

Becoming emotionally numb...

james1 — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 06:59:02 GMT

Hey PrincessMilkTea,

I'm 25 and I don't consider myself a nihilist but not because I see there being a point to life, but rather because I disagree with the whole concept of looking for a purpose at all. So I guess I just...don't engage with that side of philosophy even at the most basic level.

Instead, I just try to live and do the things I want to do.

For example, you mentioned gaming - I love to game as well and when people say I'm wasting my life at 25 gaming, I say it's what I enjoy. I'm not wasting my life if I don't see there being a set purpose for me. But I also like to draw, to travel, to build things and learn things.

I think our difference from the norm can be quite confronting for others and that can cause us a lot of anxiety as well. That isolation can often manifest in us withdrawing from life in general.

I guess all I can say is that there are others like you who share that world view and it's not a bad one. We just need to be careful that it's not something that stops you from doing the things you like doing.

Do any of your friends also enjoy the things you enjoy? Sometimes spending time with similar minded people can re-invigorate our passion for something when we found ourselves in a slump. Otherwise, I used to find comfort in an online gaming community for a DnD-style computer game modification. That was nice because I didn't have friends around me who were similar, but I could just be myself with these people.

James

Becoming emotionally numb...

PrincessMilktea — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 15:34:24 GMT

Hi James, I totally relate to some of the things you've said. I'm into gaming but most of my friends aren't (girls generally aren't interested sadly) so it's hard to find like-minded people. I also love D&D (Neverwinter) but after pvp became more pay-to-win and all about gearing I lost interest in one of my favourite MMOs, it really was a favourite of mine too. I get what you mean by trying to find others like me, but that often leads to befriending boys and honestly some of the sexist/creepy language they use on me after they realise I'm a girl is a huge turn-off from finding friends.

The other day I was playing CoD, and as soon as they saw my gamertag they immediately treated me differently (drilling me with questions about the game to see if I actually knew how to play, how much I played etc). Not fun. In real life this is worse, and honestly, I find girls a lot nicer than boys so I probably won't seek out a gaming community anytime soon. But glad to hear you've found people you can be yourself with 🙂

Becoming emotionally numb...

james1 — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 00:30:20 GMT

Ah, yeah the gaming community can be horribly sexist 😞

Funny you mention Neverwinter - the community I got into was one of the Neverwinter Nights modifications. I found that the one I joined had a lot of people in their mid/late 20's and 30's, and there was actually a surprising mix of males and females.

Though admittedly, that was a pretty rare community.

Perhaps it's a matter of looking at your other interests then. It'll be a bit difficult with your HSC around the corner, but even doing a good overseas trip or even gap year after your HSC can be really beneficial when you're struggling to find your place like this.

I found that going overseas to the UK on my own for 4 weeks was one of the best things I've ever done from a self-development point of view. The change of scenery really helped me to just let go of the "me in Australia" and just try to experience what I wanted.

James

Becoming emotionally numb...

Dorian_Gray — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 01:00:16 GMT

Hi Princess Milktea,

Seems you have already done everything I could suggest! Obviously you’re highly organised.

How have I survived for this long, well firstly I had the belief that I would find the meaning and purpose I lacked once I finished high school, then when I finished uni, then when I got a job… such milestones didn’t solve the issue but kept me motivated. Then in a long term relationship I had with a Lady I found something I truly enjoyed and was motivated to keep her happy…admittedly almost obsessively…but the nihilism didn’t go away even then and it multiplied the normal grief effects into depression when it ended...nonetheless that was/is the thing I enjoyed the most and seek again.

Interim measure is a steady stream of novelty, trying different sports, indulging my intellectual curiosity, devouring books, movies and games. Fortunately there is always more to learn so whilst I know it doesn’t matter, I find a brief excitement associated with novelty a motivator, hence my suggestion. I also find how one relates to one’s nihilistic views changes with one’s experience, its intense as one first comes to that position, and one is always aware of it, but it’s not always so overwhelming, it especially changes as one starts to work.

Motivation can be gotten around by exploiting our biological preferences for habitual behaviour, force yourself to do something long enough and it becomes an unthinking habit (e.g. I did this for running every night and other chores). An alternate motivator might be to consider where you don’t want to end up in the future and be motivated to avoid those outcomes.

I would also advise to try and keep in some social circles, perhaps realign to preferred people, even if it feels tiresome, just being around people does have benefits due to our social instincts, take it from me, nihilism + isolation is a bad place to be and compounds problems. If you haven't already check if some of your friends have similar thoughts. I hope things improve for you and you find something that can content you, take what little pleasure you can from where you can.

Becoming emotionally numb...

White_Rose — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 05:01:55 GMT

Hello Princess

I started a post to you yesterday, got called away and then logged out forgetting to post my reply first. Sorry.

We were talking about uni (amongst other things) and I wondered, given your interest in Nihilism and I presume associated writers , why not take an undergraduate degree in philosophy? It seems to me to tick your boxes with an interest Nihilism, needing like minded people to discuss matters of interest, perhaps an interest in broadening your philosophic knowledge and a degree that you can use in several directions.

Happiness is a fleeting emotion. We are not meant to live on the mountain top in a rarefied atmosphere. We are meant to struggle and achieve. It's the knowledge of these achievements that can bring happiness but we move on. When I was watching QI a while ago I discovered Bhutan is a country that measures the Gross National Product in happiness. I have no idea what they use to decide on happiness, but it's interesting.

To go back to Frankl, he believes that those who have a reason for living, something that makes them want to live, are those who survived the concentration camps. Clearly many died who had this will to endure because they had no choice. It was interesting to read his description of those who gave up on life and how quickly they died. Two or three days I think and everyone recognised the signs.

So if someone can find a reason for living in those conditions surely we should manage given the standard of life we have. Or perhaps not. If you have everything what more do you want or can you have? If you are protected from life and all that may go wrong, what indeed is the incentive to challenge yourself? It seems the early death rate of nihilists bears out his theory. I believe Shakespeare had a few pithy comments on this subject.

It seems to me that distant education is full of pitfalls, especially for the senior student. This is a time when you need to thrash out the meaning of life, so to speak. When all your effort is directed inwards it's hardly surprising you feel lost and unemotional. Who is there to blow that flame into life? I know in isolated communities this is the best they have. Even in these places there is an urge to question life with others. I think this is one of the reasons these parents send their children to boarding school, at least for their high school years.

I think my post of yesterday was more purposeful but I do hope it has given you some food for thought.

Mary

Becoming emotionally numb...

PrincessMilktea — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 18:10:07 GMT

Hi James,

I also considered traveling the world (obviously when I have the wherewithal for it), to be a good way to "find myself". I think travelling is a universal fix to anyone's problems to be honest, I've never met someone who didn't come back as a better version of themselves after travelling. A change of scenery really seems to refine your perspective.

And Neverwinter Nights sounds interesting, may give that a try 🙂

Becoming emotionally numb...

PrincessMilktea — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 18:11:51 GMT

Hi Dorian Gray,

I understand your motivation that "meaning will come after X event happens" has worked for you and that your obsession with a Lady has kept you happy, but sadly I am not able to do the same. For me, love and other life objectives are simply a means to an end, not an end unto itself. What I mean by that is, for instance when you brush your teeth every morning and have a shower everyday you do this because it is a means to an end (being clean), however the act itself isn't particularly appealing or enjoyable. It is simply something you must do.

Similarly, love, hobbies, work are all things we must do, but for me, these things are not attractive per se, they are simply a continuation of events that must be completed to reach the end (death). I believe this is an abnormal problem I have (the loss of pleasure from otherwise pleasurable things; ergo anhedonia), and hopefully I can overcome it soon. I am sorry for plaguing you with issues that seem to leave us at an impasse, but just so you know talking about it has helped me understand it better, so your efforts have definitely helped. Thank you.

Also I took your advice about keeping a social circle today by hanging out with my friends. I admit, this feels a lot better than being alone with my nihilism, they served as a much-needed distraction. However as soon as I got home, the nihilistic thoughts I had put behind me returned, packing twice the punch and in the end I had to sleep it off to feel myself again. I will do as you advise and try to make socialising a habit, hopefully I will feel good enough to deal with this negativity to the point where it no longer happens.

Becoming emotionally numb...

PrincessMilktea — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 18:14:35 GMT

Hi Mary, to be honest a degree in philosophy doesn't leave many appealing career options to choose from, especially since I would rather lean towards careers that pay well, though I very much appreciate how much thought you're putting into this. As for happiness, I believe what you're saying is basically "it's the journey, not the destination that matters" and while I once completely agreed with this view, that struggling is essential to achieving happiness, my problem is that even the struggle is ultimately meaningless if the destination is unsatisfactory to the traveler.

I do not believe that mediocrity is a convincing existence to have, thus I have no desire to "struggle" to achieve this mediocrity despite myself. If you would like to understand the reasons for my unconvinced state (or nihilism in this case), you can read a short piece by Thomas Nagel called "The Absurd", which encapsulates everything I'm unable to explain here.

Becoming emotionally numb...

White_Rose — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 22:55:16 GMT

Hello Princess

Just managed a quick search on Nagel with a couple of summaries of his philosophy. One ended with this summary.

Summary – Life has no objective meaning and there is no reason to think we can give it any meaning at all. Still, we continue to live and should respond, not with defiance or despair, but with an ironic smile. Life is not as important and meaningful as we may have once suspected, but this is not a cause for sadness.

Does this summarise your belief? It seems to me that in my admittedly brief reading Nagel is not particularly saying life is pointless. Rather he seems to be saying there's nothing to make a fuss about in the present because nothing will matter in the future, although he agrees we really cannot say that because we have no knowledge of the future.

It appears to me that we do now does have an effect on the future. We are consciously shaping the future, albeit with many disagreements and far too many wars. It also seems to me that you are not devoid of ambition or desire. You are seriously considering completing a degree in economics because you believe this will give you access to a high paying job. This is not simply a means to an end, i.e. having cash, but an end which means you cab use this money to travel etc So you have a dream, a raison d'être. So how can you be devoid of feelings?

As for happiness, I believe what you're saying is basically "it's the journey, not the destination that matters" I did not say happiness was the destination. We may be happy we have reached or attained a desired event which allows to sit back for while and smile.

You stated, in effect, that travel broadens the mind and the returnee has gained access to themselves, a state of being you want to achieve. It is the exposure to different lifestyles, customs, beliefs and so forth, but you can also do this in your neighbourhood if you try. So why do you think you have no feelings, or that this is only triggered when you are alone. You enjoyed the company of your friends yesterday and you intend to do this regularly. Fantastic. And you have a goal or two, get a well-paid job and travel the world. At this moment do you need any further incentive?

Can you stop analysing life and simply live it? Mix with your friends frequently. Take an interest in their lives and how they feel. Do any of them have problems they would like to share but hold back in case no one else wants to listen?

Mary

Becoming emotionally numb...

james1 — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 00:20:48 GMT

Hey PrincessMilktea,

Being 25 and incessantly self-conscious and philosophical - I did a major in Philosophy in my Economics degree - I can understand the almost compulsive desire to understand the why, and to create a world view for yourself, and perhaps even see what others feel and think about it. After all, I was gearing myself up for a career as an academic either in Philosophy or Economics, so it's just part of who I am.

But Mary also has a good point in needing to stop every now and then, and just live life.

If you like, think of it as data collection. You have a view about how activities are means towards some improvement in the various skills, which may allow you to do more of that, but the end result is death, i.e. a discontinuation of everything. Therefore, they are all a means to an end.

Test that.

Try and prove it correct by proving the alternative to be false. Try and live in the activities themselves without this theory, and see if it just comes back to the theory, or if there are activities which you find have some value beyond another step towards the inevitable.

You can always come back to the theory, but the challenge is to depart from it temporarily.

It's how I go about things anyway. Suspend belief for a while. I'm not wholly convinced, but I've had moments where I was literally in wonder and would be disappointed to have lived and not seen. And that's value that extends beyond being a means to an end.

James

Becoming emotionally numb...

PrincessMilktea — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 01:49:23 GMT

Thanks for the response James, a lot of my reply to your other statements can be interpreted in my reply to Mary, just so you're aware.

"You can always come back to the theory, but the challenge is to depart from it temporarily."

This challenge and I have some bad blood between us. No matter how hard I try, my analytic brain will override any suspension of disbelief I employ. I have often given the same advice to myself, but it's like turning off who I am; a very analytical/logical person. Like I mentioned above to Mary, I will keep trying and will not give up anytime soon because despite the impression I must've given, I genuinely want to achieve this "happiness" even if I understand it to be ultimately meaningless. I've also noticed that you termed the experience as "value" rather than "meaning", and I'm very glad you've made that distinction because its one I can understand and relate to.

Becoming emotionally numb...

PrincessMilktea — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 01:55:57 GMT

"So you have a dream, a raison d'être. So how can you be devoid of feelings?"

This is not my dream. I am not passionate about having money or travelling, the same way you cannot call someone passionate if they like the taste of sushi and thus decides to save a few extra dollars to buy a sushi roll. Sushi is great and all, and I certainly like eating sushi, but this fondness for sushi does not automatically equate to having a passion for sushi. I will not work an extra three hours overtime to buy more sushi, I will not earn a degree in Sushiology if it means I can have an infinite supply of sushi. My life is not suddenly meaningful because I eat sushi. If sushi ceased to exist, my life would not suddenly be devoid of meaning, because sushi is not my raison d'être. Money and travelling is nice, but it's not something I particularly feel seriously inclined to achieve, it's just something I'm doing because the alternative is worse.

"I did not say happiness was the destination."

You struggle to overcome challenges, and when this challenge is conquered you feel "happy". Therefore; challenge = journey, happiness = destination. You will continue this finite chain of struggle and reward to keep your brain happily absorbed with dopamine for the remainder of your existence. You call this "meaning" I call this "tiresome".

"So why do you think you have no feelings"

Because I'm beginning to have less and less interest/feelings for friends and emotional events. I still enjoy them, but not the same way as I used to. This is deeply alarming for me, and I'm depressed that I can't feel as emotionally involved as I'd like to. I'm even beginning to think this pattern will continue in the future and simple joys like eating and listening to music will also start to wane.

"Can you stop analysing life and simply live it?"

I am trying. I am seeking out a way to procure antidepressants so I can motivate myself long enough to earn a degree and a job. It's okay Mary, I will find a way to achieve this, this thread was started because I needed some ideas/advice, and you'll be pleased to know that if worse comes to worst, I'll take your advice and let my parents know so that I can get the antidepressants even at the expense of some anxiety. I never really intended to justify my nihilism nor assert it onto others, I merely mentioned it to give people some context on where I was coming from.

Becoming emotionally numb...

james1 — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 02:07:17 GMT

Hey ,

No problem. I get it and I'm glad you've articulated that you will keep trying. It took me a darn long time and there are parts of me now which I still struggle to "turn off". I try to see it as adding a new dimension to myself rather than ignoring "me" but I guess it's just a slow process.

I know it's a little while away, but if you decide to go to university next year, I think you'll find there will be a lot more people who are more...well, you'll find more people you can relate to. School is quite insular whereas university has so many more people. It could still take a while, but you will find people with whom you can have interesting conversations with.

A lot of my beliefs changed as a result of uni, or even were confirmed, but it's a really good place for learning if you're open to talking to lots of different people and seeing what drives them.

In the meantime though, you've got a safe space here if you need a bit of support. It can be super hard to continue sometimes when the tunnel looks like it just drops away, but I do think that we may as well walk it together rather than alone.

James