topic Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’? in Long-term support over the journey

Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’?

Tams20 — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 05:15:00 GMT

I’ve been struggling with depression lately and have been experiencing some very dark moods. I haven’t missed a day of work or caring for my family, even though I barely hold it together some days and my weekends are usually spent recovering. I’ve been on SSRIs for a few months that I feel aren’t working that well and have also scheduled a review with my GP this week. Am also going to ask for counselling just so that I can talk to someone about my issues, as I am not one for burdening friends and family with my problems.

Just recently I have started fantasising about a particular method of suicide. Quite graphic thoughts and planning (I won’t go into detail) that has gotten me so concerned that I now take steps so that I physically couldn’t do it. I don’t actually believe that I could do it, I don’t actually think that I am suicidal, but on some days I feel quite reckless about it, almost as if I’m daring myself to do it. I almost enjoy the thought of it. After the urge has passed I think if my kids and I feel like the worst person in the world.

Is this a common thing for when you’re depressed? Is it perhaps related to the medication?

Thanks.

Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’?

BluBelle — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 12:03:15 GMT

Hi Tams20. I think to a certain extent, it's normal(ish). It's a bit tricky to talk about without giving specific situations, which I think is a no-no here on the forums, but I have heard psychologists say that most people have thoughts of doing something reckless out of nowhere. But I'm talking about daily situations you find yourself in where you suddenly think about how easy it would be to cause yourself harm. It has a name apparently, and Edgar Allen Poe wrote about it. It's called the Imp of the Perverse, and essentially, it's an urge to do the worst possible thing in a given situation just because you could. It's about realising how fragile human life is and how easily it could be blotted out.

Having said all that, it generally refers to fleeting thoughts. If it's reached a point where the thought is so consuming that you're actually taking steps to keep yourself safe, I think it's worth exploring with a therapist. It could be related to the medication, I've also heard it can be related to anxiety and not feeling able to manage it.

Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’?

Croix — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 13:47:37 GMT

Dear Tams20~

I'm sorry to hear your life is having this effect on you. At present you have the pressure of the issues you talked about elsewhere and no real confidant at home.

Having that idea of killing yourself can be one of several things, most of which are highly dangerous. I'm no doctor and would not attempt to give this a cause, or try to predict what might happen. All I can say is that you should make full use of you next doctor's appointment and be wholly frank. In fact if you can get in earlier please do so.

If you feel it would be too hard to talk about this face to face then do what I've done in the past and write it down - point form is fine - and share the paper. A long consultation if you can get one.

The reason I'm so concerned is the fact we do not know ourselves as well as we expect. I've been surprised (unpleasantly) with my actions and would imagine other people can too.

Croix

Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’?

White_Rose — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 16:40:49 GMT

Dear Tams20

Hello. I have seen you around the forum a little. Thank you for sharing your story.

Fantasizing about self harm or suicide I think is common when someone is not travelling well. We all have our various scenarios for when things go a little wrong. When life gets a little tough financially it's easy to dream, as it were, about winning Gold Lotto or being left a fortune by Aunt Joan. We know they are fantasies but they give a little relief at times.

Thoughts of ending your life because you see no future can be attractive. The thought of no more pain is tempting if only fleetingly. While it remains a fleeting thought there is a brief relief. Dwelling on ways and means is more serious. When you see your GP please tell him/her what you are thinking. It's an irony that some antidepressants have a side effect of of suicidal thoughts. See what is listed on the explanatory sheet that comes in the medication container. If there is no sheet then ask your pharmacist or look it up.

All ADs are not equal and while many of these meds suit a large majority, they can be ineffectual for some and/or have unpleasant side effects. It is a matter of trial and error. I know because I have a long history of taking meds which do not suit me and this includes medications for medical conditions other than depression. If I may suggest, can you write down how you feel and when you started to experience the destructive thoughts relative to starting on this medication.

It's good to give your GP a factual account of what is working etc. And more importantly, have the discussion about your thoughts. If you are going to ask for counselling may I suggest you see a psychiatrist. They are the experts in ADs and can offer meds more suitable for you. GP do a fantastic job but if you are having these thoughts it's best to see someone who has more expertise in this area.

I have been going to psychiatrist for several years. My GP prescribed an older medication than an SSRI and it has worked very well, but everyone is not the same. Horses for courses. My psychiatrist is happy with my prescription.

To return to your thoughts, they can be seductive and they can become a habit before you realise. It's really great that you have taken positive steps to remove the temptation. I would love to say stop dwelling on your thoughts and think about something else but it's not that easy, which is why I believe you need the help of a psychiatrist.

I hope you will continue to post here.

Mary

Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’?

Tams20 — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 10:12:13 GMT

Thanks everyone for your support.

I’m going back to the doctor tomorrow. I can’t seem to pull myself out of this hole so I think it’s something I need to do. I will explain the problems I have been having and see what she thinks. Mary, I will ask about the Psychiatrist for getting the meds right... it’s pretty obvious that something is wrong when I feel so much worse than before I started taking them.

I’m certainly not travelling well at the moment but I told my husband and he’s keeping a close eye on me, which is good. I feel a bit better for telling him, as he is best placed to support me. I don’t want my parents to worry and my friends will no doubt make me feel even worse in my ‘hyper-sensitive’ state, I’ll either be disappointed in their reaction or not believe what they say, so unfortunately for him he’s my only option at the moment.

Thanks,

Tams

Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’?

White_Rose — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 11:07:58 GMT

Hello Tams

Thanks for your reply. So pleased you will see your GP tomorrow. It's good that you have told your husband how you feel. This is another safety layer. I am also thankful that your husband has acknowledged your difficulties and is actively helping you. Sometimes partners are a little scared in this situation. Glad to see your husband is coping.

I can appreciate not wanting to distress your parents. In my situation it was my adult children I did not want to upset. Moms never get unwell or only briefly and our children want this to be the case otherwise it shakes their certainty in a world of uncertainties.

You sound a bit like me in being unable to believe others have a genuine regard for us. I have lost count of the number of times I have been asked if I would help a friend in my place and of course the answer is always yes. So why do we disbelieve anyone would want to help us. We are not terribly logical when we are deeply depressed or upset.

so unfortunately for him he’s my only option at the moment. T rather think your husband loves you and wants you to be well. If that means helping you to stay safe then that's OK. I know he cannot remove the thoughts from your mind but what if you were to have a signal of some sort or simply tell him when you are having the dreadful thoughts. Talk about the things that will divert your thoughts and have something handy to do when this happens.

The fewer times you get to consider suicide the better. I understand the reckless feeling, the desire to tempt fate and see how far you can go. That is a dangerous path to follow. One careless moment and your life will be over. You have said this is not what you want so talk with your husband about how to change the recording in your head. Also a good topic for your GP tomorrow.

I have no idea if your GP will suggest a stay in hospital or not. It depends on you to a large extent. Do you have private insurance that would cover this? Your GP may be able to get an emergency appointment with a private psychiatrist who can offer you a bed in a private hospital. Not trying to scare you but it may be something that is raised. My psychiatrist wanted me to go to hospital when I first went to him. Unfortunately I had no insurance so of course could not afford it. I really wish I had been able to go. I was so very depressed and really quite at risk. No husband, living on my own. So I worry about everyone who feels unwell. I hope all goes well tomorrow.

Mary

Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’?

Tams20 — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 11:38:09 GMT

Hi Mary,

Thank you for your concern. I must admit the thought of a hospital stay does scare me a bit... I hadn’t thought about that as a possible outcome of tomorrow.... I’m not sure how comfortable I would be with that to be honest... I don’t feel ‘at risk’ enough for that, but I suppose she may think differently.

I think my husband is a little scared of the situation, his first reaction was to tell me I’m not leaving the house until my doctor’s appointment tomorrow. I reassured him that I am able to resist the urge and he knows I’m actively trying to get help, so I think he feels a bit better. Still worried though. My parents definitely don’t need to know, they live 800km away and would panic.

Thanks again for the support.

Tams x

Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’?

Medea78 — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 12:07:53 GMT

I think I know how you feel. I know 99.9% that I would never do anything but every day a thought pops into my mind that I have to push away. I never come close to acting on it but it’s always there in my periphery

Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’?

Tams20 — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 04:10:51 GMT

Hi Medea78,

My thoughts used to be on the periphery but they are becoming a bit more prominent. I'm starting to worry about whether I can actually continue to resist the urge. Pretty sure it's a poor fit with my meds though, so hopefully I can overcome it fairly easily!

Tams

Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’?

White_Rose — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 06:25:10 GMT

Hello Tams

Didn't mean to scare you with hospital. I was thinking of possible situations and perhaps giving you a heads up. It is highly unlikely you will go to a public hospital because the number of available beds is so low as to be almost non-existent. You would have to be critical to be there and I don't think you are anywhere near that. Hope that helps.

I can imagine your husband's face when you told him. I think he is worried about you, normal.

I am trying to think how I got past that stage. It is doable. I think I talked to various people a great deal and accepted whatever support I could get. I tried not to involve my children as I said above. Far too emotional for them. I also had a skilled psychiatrist who let me ramble on. I realised one day I had not had these thoughts for a while and when I made an effort to think about it I realised I had no need or desire to end my life. It was an amazing revelation.

Now when things go wrong, as they do for everyone, I find I am looking for a way to manage instead of giving up. Actually that annoys me in a way because it is so much harder to keep focussed on what I am going to do next. Maybe you can focus on what you are going to do next when these thoughts return.

So here I am getting better every day even though some days are not very good.

Mary

Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’?

Tams20 — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 10:43:20 GMT

Hi Mary,

It's great to hear that you have learnt coping strategies and are getting better every day (despite the odd off day). It sounds like it has been a long road for you.

I took Croix's advice and wrote down what I have been experiencing lately and gave it to her to read. I didn't trust myself not to 'down play' everything once I started talking. There was a lot on the page! She started asking me about my past history (I used to self-harm as a teenager and was a very big drinker and quite reckless in my behaviour as a young adult). You were right, she did suggest a stay in a private hospital to have a rest and get some treatment, but like you I don't have the right private health insurance to cover it. She has given me a low dose of an anti-psychotic to level me out, along with my SSRIs and I am going back to see her again on Friday to work out the next steps. She wanted sooner but I have work commitments that I can't get out of. Whatever happens I cannot lose my job - I am the sole breadwinner for my family.

No idea what is going to happen, I'm still in shock about the situation to be honest. A few months ago I was just starting to feel like I wasn't coping, now it has escalated to the point where my doctor is recommending a trip to hospital. I can't believe it. I don't know how this has happened. I've always been able to keep myself under control.

I just want to get over this and get back to my old version of 'normal', as kooky as that was.

Tams

Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’?

Croix — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 12:33:23 GMT

Dear Tams~

I'm very glad Mary has joined you here, she has a load of experience and wisdom.

Thinking about hospital may seem a shock, but it is not really. You have reached the stage where you can think about and start to deal with all the things you have pushed to one side. So in a way you are in control, just the problems you are facing are not the ones you had before.

Going to hospital, if you do, can be a real help. I have found it so, in fact I simply kept getting worse until I did (No, I'm not saying it is the same for you, or that you will go, just giving a positive story)

Your doctor sounds very sensible, and did not try to rush things. That is excellent.

Incidentally while I remember there was never anything to apologize for, you are going though a hard time and changing your mind over how to handle friendships is fine. You make a judgment based on what is happening now. Personally I think stepping back rather than harming existing relationships in the heat of the moment is very sensible.

Croix

Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’?

Tams20 — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 02:45:49 GMT

Hi Croix,

My doctor was certainly leaning towards a hospital stay, without being alarmist in any way, but I don’t have the private cover and I really can’t afford to be off work at the moment. As the sole breadwinner for my family I absolutely have to keep my job and keep doing it well - I can’t compromise on that at all. Am inter dyed to see how the follow up visit goes tomorrow.

Re: my other post, you give me far too much credit... in the last 24hrs I have taken a ‘make or break’ approach with this particular friend, and as I expected ‘break’ was the outcome. I have been so disappointed by her lack of support in the past week or so, I think it’s better if we’re not friends. She’s not good for me. I have other friends who are checking up on me on a regular basis, I don’t think she deserves so much good will from me when she’s not genuine. I’ve decided to concentrate my efforts on people who deserve it. Makes me sad, but I also feel like I can now move on. Bad, but good!

Tams

Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’?

smallwolf — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 04:12:11 GMT

Tams,

Hi. I have seen your around forums, and stumbled upon your thread quite by accident to be honest. I saw your question in your initial post about whether this was "normal" or not. It is not a topic which we would tend to bring up with loved ones or friends "I had this thought last night...". My thoughts are generally fleeting. This does not mean that I am not suicidal. But those thoughts are ever present, or come back periodically. I guess it is how we deal with those thoughts....

Fast forward to your latest post, you also mention that you are the sole breadwinner. It is a fine line we tread between being a provider for your family and recognizing your health issues. But then you also have to takeinto account your financial position, and then there is emotional baggage etc. And the next statement will probably make me sounds contradictory and hypocrite, but... I have said that I put my health before my work. (And yet I am still working at the same place full time.) Not sure what your triggers are but... if things at work are turning us into people that we don't want to be, or make use consider things that are abnormal, then something has to give. And it it gets to a choice between family and "other things" then I choose family.

Can I ask whether your parent know anything about what you are going through? Can you tell them? My mother was the first person I spoke to during my meltdown. We speak weekly (?) about various things, and will check to see how I am travelling. And now she also detects differences in my tone of voice, of what I say vs what I feel. I believe that it takes community to make us well again and that I cannot do it by myself.

I cannot really tell you or give you advice as to what action(s) to take, except to relate aspects of my life that might be similar to yours and maybe in that, you will find something useful to grab hold of.

Peace and best wishes.

Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’?

White_Rose — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 23:49:38 GMT

Hello Tams

Good to know your GP has experience in the mental health arena. Yes it has been a long road for me and there is much in my past that has contributed to my depression. I separated from my husband 18 years ago and have lived on my own ever since. I think the separation was the trigger for my depression even though it was the right move.

It's not the easiest road to travel which is one of the reasons I am so pleased you have joined us here. We are not an emergency resource and if you need any immediate help then I suggest you phone the BB helpline 1300 22 4636 or the Suicide Call Back Service 1300 659 467. Don't let the name of the second one put you off. They are amazing people and will talk to you for a while if you are in need.

Both numbers are available 24/7.

It is unfortunate you do not have medical insurance. I signed up to a fund after the psych's suggestion and I did need to go to hospital. As Croix has said, it's place to get your thoughts together. However I also understand your position as sole breadwinner unless you have sick leave or holiday leave where you still get paid.

If your friends are unable to provide support at the moment then let them go. There all sorts of reasons why some people find this difficult but it's of no help to delve into the whys. Let her go and allow yourself to be supported by your other friends. Your husband is obviously a good support person.

Do you read much? I recommend getting this book, possibly from your library. Living With IT by Bev Aisbett. You can read it in about half an hour. It's light to read with some cartoons but raises serious issues. IT is panic attacks but I found it equally useful for depression. The reflections and comments will fit a large range of difficulties. You may find it very helpful.

The desire to get back to your old self is a good motivator. Your description of the depression escalating is pretty common.

Can I ask you not to put too much pressure on yourself? Getting well is probably going to be a long process. I saw a psychiatrist when I first became depressed and asked how long it would last expecting him to say something like six months. Imagine my shock when he said a couple of years. What we do not realise is this depression has been building up for many years in ways we hardly notice. Now you are conscious of what is happening you can work on your recovery. Just do not beat yourself up if you are not well in the short term.

Mary

Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’?

IsaJett — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 00:14:09 GMT

Hi Tams

thanks for sharing your post. About two years ago I was suicidal because of a marriage breakdown. Saw no light at the end of the tunnel. I am grateful to report that I survived that and doing well. The internal conversation with myself was atrocious. I realise now I was my own worst enemy. Telling myself all the worse stuff I wouldn't even say to a stranger. I have now learn to be my own best friend. I now know the only reliable person is myself. The strength is within myself . And the good news for you is that your strength is within you . You have all it takes to help yourself. Your will to do it is what will assist you in this mountainous battle. Its not easy but its within you . It is sometimes hard to stay positive as you feel like its one thing after another. And like ...why can't I catch a wave and ride it out??

when we tell ourselves we CANNOT..we have actually lost half the battle.

on the other hand if we tell ourselves we CAN ...then we are half way to winning the battle.

Omg now you thinking where this positive Guru come from...but hahahaha believe me...my positive energy scares me sometimes as well ...but I wouldn't have it any other way as it has been my go to and has seen me through the darkest of times.

I have often just laughed at my own plight that I was in and still in Humour is such a good way to cope ...otherwise you be crying. But crying is good too...a sobbing mess ...a wet sobbing mess...where the pillows are all soaked.

Anyways I hope this post at least puts a smile on your face and that you know you are not alone.

Stay in touch 🙂

Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’?

Tams20 — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 02:28:39 GMT

Smallwolf, Mary, Isabel,

I hope you don't mind the 'communal' reply, but I like to acknowledge everyone's responses individually, as they are all helpful to me.

Smallwolf... My work is not a trigger for me (although it certainly was in my last job). The work can be stressful, but in a good way - challenging, problem-solving, looking for innovation, collaborating with others - I am the type of person that thrives on this, and I find that I can go a full day without thinking about my problems. I do struggle with self-esteem and confidence, but I get positive feedback and have developed a good reputation in my industry, so this helps me challenge my 'inner critic'.

I have shared some of what I am going through with my parents, but not the full extent. I plan to speak more openly with my mum when I've had my follow up appointment this afternoon. I want to tell her the right way so that she doesn't worry about the wrong things. I need to plan it a bit.

White Rose... Thanks for continuing to support me on this thread. 18 years is a long time to be living with depression, I can't imagine 18 years from where I am at the moment... I'm a bit apprehensive about the timeframes required but as long as it trends uphill from now then that is a good thing.

I do have sick leave and annual leave at work, it's more of a case of the timing. I'm feeling a bit better on the new meds, so I think I will be ok. And I'm getting good support from my husband, as he is not working at the moment he's able to keep an eye on me.

I am very sad about one particular friend, she admitted she doesn't know what to say to me because everything she says seems to be the wrong thing. And she also said doesn't want to hear any more negative things from me. Message received loud and clear! I feel she seems to be making it my problem, but it's not worth arguing about. I've been pleasantly surprised by other friends and how great they have been. I have learnt valuable lessons about the strengths and limitations of my friends. I'm certainly not on my own, I just need to learn to ask for help from the right people.

Isabel Sabrina... Thanks, you made me laugh! I also believe in humour, I can pull myself out of a mood by cracking jokes with others. I do have moments of sobbing too - you need a balance!

Thanks for your positive thoughts, I do have the strength to get over this. I've lived with it for so long, it's certainly not going to beat me now!

... Thanks to all of you x

Tams

Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’?

White_Rose — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 13:21:57 GMT

Hello Tams

I think I misled you a little. Although it has been 18 years since I left my husband and the several years after were very hard and distressing, I did recover. It seems that I fall back when life gets stressful. The good news is that I have a great psychiatrist and equally wonderful GP who have both supported me and helped me to learn management skills. Sometimes I think I am a bit of a slow learner and then, like Isabel, wave to you, I realised I was the person who made the changes. Others can only point the way and support you.

Nothing like a bit of adversity to see who your friends are. Yes, I have lost friends for different reasons and often it has made me sad and wonder if I could have done something different. It doesn't do you any good to spend time wondering about the motives of others. Simply keep yourself moving.

Like Isabel I find humour is good for the soul. If we cannot laugh at ourselves the world is a poor place. So I laugh and feel much better for it.

Short post tonight because it's past my bedtime.

Mary

Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’?

Tams20 — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 00:52:19 GMT

Hello Mary,

Thanks for staying up past your bedtime to reply to me 😊

Doctor’s visit yesterday was an eye opener for me, I was with her for nearly an hour and she reviewed my notes again and asked lots of questions of me (as we were a bit rushed the other day). She said she believes that I might be suffering from Bipolar II and has referred me to a Psychiatrist for an assessment and treatment plan. I was gobsmacked! But when she explained it in the context of what I had told her it all started to make sense. My behaviour and ‘personality quirks’ all started to make sense.

So I’m in shock at the moment, I’m not sure what is going to happen from here. If I am Bipolar it will be good to put a name to it, but I can’t help worrying about what that might mean for my future. She did say something that made me feel better about myself yesterday, “if I am correct and it is Bipolar II, you must be incredibly smart to have worked out your own way of managing this so successfully for so long”... that made me feel better!

I am a bit down today as I ponder the future, not such a great day for me. But, true to form, I have managed to drag myself out and am currently sitting at the hairdresser getting my hair done. Trying to stay positive!

Tams x

Thoughts of suicide when not ‘suicidal’?

Croix — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 01:04:39 GMT

Dear Tams~

You said: "but I can’t help worrying about what that might mean for my future"

As far as I can see it can only make your future better. As your psych said you have a battery of coping mechanisms and have leaned to deal with the problem successfully unassisted, now there is the possibility if the diagnosis is confirmed of focused medical support to assist further.

Knowing the characteristics of bipolar 2 would allow not only more understanding of yourself but enable you to make plans and allowances for any future ups and downs. While my problems are not in that area I've found psychiatrists to be a great help over the years.

It looks pretty hopeful

Croix