topic 'I am Sorry' Overkill in Supporting family and friends

'I am Sorry' Overkill

blondguy — Mon, 30 May 2016 13:21:33 GMT

Hey everyone and new posters too!....I need your help...understanding...and advice..

I have a close friend who is suffering with depression and increasing anxiety. She is in her late 40's and has been a company director for years until her marriage fell apart a few years ago. To avoid paragraphs which can be hard work to read for anyone I will use bullet points..

Every time I help her she apologises...over and over...
She has chronic post operative pain after a gall bladder removal...(5 years ago)
depression and anxiety have exacerbated since her operation...(on AD's...for 4 years)
she is caring for her mum who is only in her 60's who is frail after a botched brain operation...
I think she is a 'people pleaser'...strict catholic upbringing...nuns with big sticks..etc..

I have gently mentioned many times to my friend to stop apologising to me when I help her with anything...I just need some advice....Is the continual apologizing a sense of low self worth?....Or very low self esteem? I am stuck.

I am a great care giver who can work wonders but I am lost on this one. I am currently looking after six people on a face to face basis...(not on the forums)...but the continual apologizing during any conversations is taking its toll on me.

What do I do when someone I care about keeps apologizing to me all the time? Any understanding/advice would be greatly appreciated 🙂

Thankyou for reading my post 🙂 Any new posters are very welcome to help too!

Kind Thoughts

Paul

'I am Sorry' Overkill

Clues_Of_Blue — Mon, 30 May 2016 15:14:38 GMT

There are various reasons someone may be so apologetic. If she's a people pleaser, she probably does struggle with self esteem. Looking for affirmation and approval from others a lot typically is a sign that there's not a lot of positive reinforcement coming from within.

That said, with my other half at least, I get in a bit of an apologetic loop, myself. Nothing to do with self esteem, but because the same stuff keeps coming up, because it always seems to be him helping me and not me helping him, because I am angry that I'm not able to do more on my own and I'm partly apologising to myself.

They're pretty opposing reasons, but something that helps in both cases is to let the person know if they are helping you in some way, and reinforce that message on a semi-regular basis. Needing help is galling for someone like me and I want to be useful to someone even if I can't be so to myself. Feeling like a bother or that they're doing something displeasing will fluster and upset the people pleasers, so knowing they're doing something right that you like will probably ease that a bit.

Tired, and only formulating half-thoughts, but hopefully that's of some help.

'I am Sorry' Overkill

blondguy — Mon, 30 May 2016 15:37:45 GMT

Hey Blue

I admire your wisdom and that you speak from the heart too..You have an innate gift where clarity is concerned.

I need that clarity right now...thankyou so much:-)

Paulxx

'I am Sorry' Overkill

Lost_Girl — Mon, 30 May 2016 15:44:14 GMT

Hey Paul,

I can only speak from my experience. I find myself apologising all the time, especially to hubby who is my primary carer with my chronic pain. I say, "I am really sorry", hubby says, "I know, I understand". Then nothing more is said.

For me, it is;

acknowledment from me to him that he is doing something that he wouldn't have needed to do if not for my illness
me feeling useless and frustrated that I can't do it myself
me feeling like a burden on him
me feeling like saying that will somehow make him feel less annoyed for having to do it, especially if he is tired. Eg, has a long tiring day at work, hasn't slept well because of me then still has to back the day up with cooking, cleaning and bathing kids etc.
wishing things were different
seeking reassurance that he is happy to continue helping

Every time I say it, it is said with great love and appreciation. Sorry is often followed by I love you or I really appreciate what you are doing for me.

I don't have low self esteem or low self worth. I value myself quite highly even while feeling useless.

I was brought up catholic but as m not a practicing catholic. I am a people pleaser to some extent in that I much prefer being the giver.

On writing all of this, I realise instead of saying sorry I could probably just say thankyou. Somehow thankyou just doesn't seem enough of an acknowledgement of the sacrifice by the other person, particularly with regular care over an extended period.

I hope this helps in some way dear Mr. Woof.

Cheers,

Carol

'I am Sorry' Overkill

White_Rose — Mon, 30 May 2016 15:50:27 GMT

Hello Paul

Well you certainly got my attention with this one. I have two friends who are doing it tough just lately. Friend one is a capable person who has her bad days just like all of us. When she needs help she asks for it and along with other friends of hers, I do what I can. When we part company I get a thank you. Just one and that's OK.

Friend two on the other hand does just what your friend does. She wants to be independent and generally looks after herself quite well. At the moment her depression is causing her a lot of grief and other happenings, which she cannot control, have really taken their toll. So I get phone calls asking me if I am OK when really what she means is she is not OK and wants to talk. Then I get all these thanks, just as you describe, and I get irritable.

I know she is struggling and I want to help as much as I can. In this situation I believe she gets very ashamed of wanting help. "I should be able to manage on my own". The reality is we all need a helping hand and asking is a good sign. Some people feel very guilty about 'bothering' others and are constantly torn between wanting help and being afraid of rejection because they ask too often.

One of the things I do is to thank her for allowing me to help. This is a fairly novel idea to my friend and it does stop the thanks a little. I also remind her that we are here to help each other and she has helped me in the past. A couple of times I tell her when she becomes a nuisance (one of her comments ) I will stop.

It is difficult to say to someone, stop apologizing, because that's all they have to give. I think it's partly pride which says they need to make a return of some kind for your services and clearly money or gifts are not appropriate. It's also a way of appeasing you, just in case you get fed up. And of course it's counter productive.

The bottom line I find is to grit your teeth and bear it. I say, quite firmly, "I know my dear, but you don't need to keep saying this. I am happy to help you at any time." Mixed results. In the end I believe you must live with it. Maybe try ignoring the thanks although that may make her more anxious. You know when you are a bit down a helping hand is great but it brings some shame at not helping ourselves. It's the tired brain giving itself messages and making us feel guilty.

Try to remember this. As your friend get stronger I am sure the thanks will decrease. Meanwhile, keep on keeping on. You are doing a great job.

Mary

'I am Sorry' Overkill

Clues_Of_Blue — Mon, 30 May 2016 15:54:47 GMT

Glad I could help, Paul... Wait, did you just use my own trick on me? 😛

'I am Sorry' Overkill

blondguy — Mon, 30 May 2016 16:03:48 GMT

Hi Carol..Thankyou for posting back....This thread has only been 'on the air' for 5 minutes and like Blues you have given me some light at the end of the tunnel. I am a stubborn capricorn and you have given me some peace tonight....I am learning.

I have been brought up to listen...and not speak.....seriously. You knew this all the time 🙂 Mr Woofxx

'I am Sorry' Overkill

geoff — Mon, 30 May 2016 18:49:25 GMT

hi Paul, there have been many good comments back to you, however she was once a company director until her marriage fell apart, so she would feel this as being weak, and is keen on any reassurance she can get, and not being rejected.
She is trying to restore trust in someone so that her confidence can be rebuilt, but also feels as though that everything that is going on she is actually beating herself up for what's happened.
She has to understand that everybody does make mistakes, I do, you do and no one is flawless, it's impossible to be perfect and let her know that she is no different to everyone else. Geoff.

'I am Sorry' Overkill

Elizabeth CP — Tue, 31 May 2016 01:56:58 GMT

Last year after breaking my ankle I was unable to drive so reliant on others to drive me to appointments (as well as everything else I could no longer do) I felt stupid for injuring myself & frustrated not being able to do normal activities. I also struggled feeling useless as I could no longer care for my husband properly. A lady from church insisted on taking me to outpatient appointments. I felt bad thinking she couldn't afford the petrol & it involved very long waits so I apologised to her. She then told me that she loved helping people & due to her age she was limited in what she could do so she wanted to take me because it made her feel good. She pointed out she had knitting to do in the car while she waited & the radio to listen to. Knowing how much she wanted to help allowed me to feel OK about accepting her offers of lifts to other appointments.

Knowing she enjoyed helping me meant I didn't feel the need to over apologise.

'I am Sorry' Overkill

Moonstruck — Tue, 31 May 2016 02:21:43 GMT

I am not sure if this is the right place to post this or not.......I have to try, yet again, to explain to a friend why I have to extricate myself from a situation they have come to depend on, get enjoyment out of and delight in.....I don't want to do it any more, I don't look forward to it, I have been doing it as a huge favour and know how important I am to this person in this capacity.......

my friend has, I believe, a mild, if you can have mild, version of Aspergers...where he has to do things exactly the same way, same time, same day...adhering rigidly to a "program" and practically impossible to change, or be flexible at all....this is really going to throw him if I change the pattern he has come to depend on for 7 years....I just can't do it any more...I have my own anxiety problems and this situation is escalating my own stress..I am a mess from knowing how to "get my message through"....he does not seem to "hear me".....I have tried to explain, let down lightly, ease off a little bit at a time etc etc....these slight changes have been VERY hard enough for him to cope with.......I just have to get myself OUT of the situation completely He has never been diagnosed, nor accepts there is "anything wrong" although it is painfully obvious. I described his traits to my own psych yesterday....and she said immediately..."oh, sounds like Aspergers".....he is a virtual recluse, no family, an only child, parents dead, no mates, no hobbies, no job and also a dedicated alcoholic.....no trouble in public but knows he is drinking himself to a slow death and wants to go that way......to cut down is out of the question. he has said many times, all he has in his life is beer....and me! I feel so guilty and hate hurting or disappointing anyone.....he keeps wanting me to explain, to justify why I can't fill his needs any more, he can't understand, why so all of a sudden? he is asking me.

It's not a sudden decision of mine at all - it has taken years to build up. and ages for me to get up the courage to say No. I am sick of trying to explain in words he will understand....I am not trained to deal with this strange mental quirk he has (which is not noticeable to anyone else by the way).........My anxiety is thru the roof as I cannot go on like this any more. Does anyone have any tips or do I just run away as fast as I can? thanks..Moon

'I am Sorry' Overkill

pipsy — Tue, 31 May 2016 02:58:18 GMT

Hey Paul. I did answer a while ago, but for some reason it never 'went through'. My ex was a bit like your friend, constantly apologising. With him, he would offer to take someone for coffee, a drive somewhere. If it rained, he would apologise, if it was costly, he would apologise. If he bought me something and it worked out dearer than he anticipated, I would be blamed. I think with him, he wanted things to be perfect, unless it was something for me, then it didn't matter. If it didn't work out as he wanted, for other's, he accepted responsibility. As far as looking after anyone, I don't know, it never happened. I never asked him to take care of me if I felt unwell. If he was sick, he was impossible, terrible patient. His parents always made him believe he was perfect, they actually used to say he was such a wonderful, thoughtful son. I think he felt he had to make everything just right for everyone, if it wasn't somehow this was his fault, hence the apologies.

Lynda.

'I am Sorry' Overkill

Lost_Girl — Tue, 31 May 2016 13:43:46 GMT

Hi Moon,

Tough situation you have there. Even without the possible aspergers if a routine has been in place for as long as 7 years the other person is going to question why.

If the person is insecure at all, I imagine the first instinct for that person would be why, what did I do?

I read a little about aspergers and changing routines but couldn't find a lot pertaining to adults online. What I did note was that people with high functioning autism or aspergers like logical explanations for things. Perhaps bring gentle and easing things off is creating mixed messages or confusion? . Perhaps a direct approach may be better but I imagine either way there will be a negative reaction.

I would focus on "I" statements, eg. I need to change what I am doing at the moment because I am going through a lot of change and I am finding things stressful. In fact, things are so stressful that I am seeing a psych and I need to have a break from my routines and just spend some time focusing on my health. I will call you now and then to let you know how I am going.

This makes it all about you, not him. It says you will continue contact but breaks the routine by being a call that you can control the timing on. Maybe the calls could even be more frequent to start with to help him adjust?

I had to break a very negative emotionally draining relationship when I got sick (no aspergers but a very clingy, very needy person who liked to run all my other friends down I think to make herself more important to me). I just made sure my answers to questions were closed ones that ended conversations more quickly. I didn't ask questions back. I caught up but changed things from long visits at home to quick catch ups out somewhere where I had something to get to afterwards e.g got to get home to start dinner. Over time we grew further apart. I know she is upset about it. We still talk but she knows we are not close anymore. I feel guilty but I know my health comes first.

I hope something in that may help.

Kind thoughts,

Carol

'I am Sorry' Overkill

Lost_Girl — Tue, 31 May 2016 13:51:44 GMT

Hey Paul,

I am wondering if you have explained to Pixi how it makes you feel when she apologises all the time?

I actually asked hubby if it bothered him because I do it all the time and I wondered if it was annoying. He didn't care, he (lovingly and jokingly) said he just added it to all the other blah blah blah wife comments he just ignores haha! So saying, it is very different when it is a friend you are relying on rather than someone you have a contract with (which is what I lovingly reminded him back.... in sickness)....

Anyway, maybe talk about how you feel. What response would you prefer? A thankyou? You might need to give her something to say instead as it has been a while and she will probably have to replace the habitual sorry with eg thankyou.

Cheers

Carol

'I am Sorry' Overkill

geoff — Tue, 31 May 2016 18:43:29 GMT

hi Moon, aspergers can be linked to having OCD, because he has repetitive actions, plus it's a very difficult to illness to overcome and to talk through that issue with him.
To tell someone to cut down on drinking alcohol is virtually impossible, although at the beginning their may do so, but that won't last and go back to their usual routine, which can be known as a habit.
Once again if he does have OCD then it will make it too hard for you to try and change him, especially if you yourself are suffering from anxiety.
Google aspergers and OCD, and would like to know your thoughts. Geoff.

'I am Sorry' Overkill

Moonstruck — Wed, 01 Jun 2016 01:34:01 GMT

Thank you Carol,Geoff.

I must remember the "I" starting sentences. I know the difference that makes with difficult discussions. Good to know you understand. Carol, I see you had to withdraw from a situation yourself with your friend, you may have more guts than I do.

Geoff, Googled Aspergers in adults and OCD.can't say he displays the obsessive washing hands, checking keys,etc - but who knows what he does when at his home? he is into "Rituals" tho. (will expand on that later)

He displays certain Aspergers traits that I noticed years ago - can't empathise with others' feelings, anti-social, can't make small talk or has trouble being politely responsive to others, loathes people joining him when drinking alone - same table, chair, same location, same day, time, takes exact amount of cash for exact numbers of beers he has, refuses to have a mobile phone or home phone. He said he has no friends except me and if I need him "I can drive over to his place"(although he lives not that very far, he cannot see a problem with this) or why it would inconvenience me.

I pointed out how this inconveniences others, if I have to cancel plans, running late, Drs,Dentists cannot contact him re changes of appt times etc.businesses, govt depts have to write him letters. Refuses to learn computer, no email.

He cannot understand why this is a problem for others....as he manages fine without phone contact - he uses public phones to make calls , and never cancels a appt or is running late anyway, cannot see what the difficulty is.

I have no desire and know it is useless to change him, or his drinking habits. However I need to extricate myself as he wants me to join in his "rituals" with him. He cannot see any harm in this, it gives him immense satisfaction. It's giving me the creeps,he says "It's just a game" and hurting no one.

he has said life would not be worth living if I deserted him..cannot imagine a life without me in it. Is there any chance he'd harm himself? his world is becoming narrower and narrower all the time.

thank you again for your thoughts......I wonder if anyone else has had similar experiences and how they coped. I will be seeing him tomorrow and know I cannot let this go on much longer. I had a long walk by the ocean yesterday and realised I had already made up my mind, emotionally and mentally to end the association - I felt 100 times lighter but haven't done the hard part yet. I hope I don't back down...I feel so mean! Moon

'I am Sorry' Overkill

blondguy — Wed, 01 Jun 2016 02:26:02 GMT

Hello Geoff Thankyou for helping me out with your experience. I needed it

Geoff said: "She is trying to restore trust in someone so that her confidence can be
rebuilt, but also feels as though that everything that is going on she
is actually beating herself up for what's happened.

She has to understand that everybody does make mistakes, I do, you do
and no one is flawless, it's impossible to be perfect and let her know
that she is no different to everyone else. Geoff."

What you wrote has parted the clouds...thankyou.......Paul

Elizabeth CP said: "Knowing she enjoyed helping me meant I didn't feel the need to over apologise. " Dear Elizabeth, thankyou for responding....the super kind lady from church is a legend. Especially the way she expressed why she was helping...Bless your kind heart Elizabeth.....Paulx

Moon: Hi Moon...you can post where ever you wish 🙂 I see that Geoff has the knowledge on OCD...I am sorry that your anxiety is spiking again.....I am glad your are on the forums...we are family...Paulx

Lynda: Dear Lynda...Always a delight to read your advice...You said " His parents always made him believe he was perfect if it wasn't somehow this was his fault" You just described my friend 'Pixi'...to a 'T'....I now have a better understanding of the situation. You are a gem Lynda....and your smile too!........Paulxx

Blue's Clues: I sure did 😉 xx

Mary: Hi Mary...What a wonderful reply (and kind compliment) and thankyou so much 🙂

Mary Said: "The bottom line I find is to grit your teeth and bear it. I say, quite
firmly, "I know my dear, but you don't need to keep saying this. I am
happy to help you at any time." Mixed results. In the end I believe you
must live with it. Maybe try ignoring the thanks although that may make
her more anxious. You know when you are a bit down a helping hand is
great but it brings some shame at not helping ourselves. It's the tired
brain giving itself messages and making us feel guilty."

You have a gift for providing learned & wise advice to so many people in need. I am much obliged for you taking your time in the wee hours Tuesday morning to help me.....Paulxx

Carol: I have only mentioned (gently) "There is no need to apologise" After reading all these great posts I will be changing it to Mary's & Elizabeth's approach "I am more than happy to help...etc.." Paulxx

I wasnt expecting such a flood of support in a 24 hour window....I am touched by the kindness of you all..Paulxx

'I am Sorry' Overkill

Elizabeth CP — Wed, 01 Jun 2016 07:38:28 GMT

Paul The reason you got so many supportive responses is that you have shown yourself to be a lovely caring person who has provided so much support for all of us & inspiration with you descriptions of how you have dealt with your challenges. Thank you

'I am Sorry' Overkill

Elizabeth CP — Wed, 01 Jun 2016 07:53:39 GMT

Hi Moon, I have a nephew with Aspergers & have also worked with people with Aspergers so I have some knowledge of the condition. It can manifest in different ways & impact on the person's life to different degrees. The rigid thinking & poor social skills including inability to understand other's point of view are classic symptoms. Unfortunately if you crash you will be unable to help anyone including yourself & the other person. He may not understand this but that doesn't change the reality. It is therefore imperative that you look after yourself by distancing yourself from this person. He won't like it. He won't understand why you are no longer spending time with him but you are responsible for your own health so you can function. If you start to feel guilty about no longer seeing him & worry about the consequences remind yourself why you are doing it '"Í don't like the situation but I don't want to risk becoming a burden on everyone else' Come up with your own mantra to remind yourself. Good luck. It will be hard because you are a good caring person.

'I am Sorry' Overkill

blondguy — Wed, 01 Jun 2016 10:01:29 GMT

Hi Elizabeth.....I knew where you were coming from the other day...I am super grateful for your support xx

'I am Sorry' Overkill

white knight — Wed, 01 Jun 2016 13:02:37 GMT

Hi Paul.

I thought I'd give a contrasting view if this based on my 6 year long relationship with a lady some 35 years ago now.

She was ultra obliging. In fact when the bugs bunny cartoon came on where there were two chipmunks and each would say "after you" the other would say "no, no ,no , after you" and on it went..I would point it out to her how over the top it was to consider others feelings that it appeared abnormal.

I was only in my 20's and eventually was advised by my father that this obliging thing was very much part if her character and not to "fight" it.

I did that and things were better.

I call then "ideocyncracies" . a strong reaction the person expresses from excessive impulses of kindness or consideration or even respect for others.

I think also these people can be very vulnerable to people that prey on others.

My view. But I might well not be accurate.

Tony WK