topic How do I help someone who cant seem to even try to help themselves? in Supporting family and friends

How do I help someone who cant seem to even try to help themselves?

handsfull — Mon, 16 Mar 2015 00:11:06 GMT

Hi... its my first time here and I am at a complete loss as to what to do next with my sister... I have tried various things to help her for years which have helped on the short term but then she has just sunk deeper into her depression...

Various reasons and causes for her depression as there usually is - and as much as she says everything she knows we want to hear, it has recently come to light how bad her depression is and she has willingly and gladly allowed her 3 children to have come to stay with me so that she could have some time to deal with things and get some proper professional help so she could start healing properly...

Now as much as I am well aware this will take time, it has now already been nearly 3 months that I have had the children with me and my own 2 kids, (I have moved them schools and started counselling etc) and yet the only thing she has done is get referrals. She has missed every appoinment, taken herself off her meds, and told me that she doesnt think she is the best thing for her kids - to which I am adamant she is absolutely is, once she is happy and healthy and functioning again...

She has talked about just up and disappearing without a word, as well as more serious worries... she needs help... but everywhere I turn I am told she has to seek help for herself - but she obviously cant bring herself to do that... she has spent sooooo many years hiding how damaged and broken she is, she cant bring herself to admit it to anyone... she can say the words she thinks I want to hear... but they are empty and very quickly followed by random irrational excuses that she feels justify everything...

If it is a severe case of depression that is the root of everything then surely there is some way to help her?? I think she needs a live in hostel/refuge/rehab type situation to kickstart her lifestyle and routines etc... she needs someone to answer to (that is the only time she feels safe and secure because she knows what is expected of her etc)... left to her own devices she is just behaving like a 15yr old who switches off when you say anything that doesnt suit her or sticks her headphones in her ears so she can forget the rest of the world exists... it is like a big regression that has slowly worsened over the past 5 years...

...sigh... anyways... i have my hands full... and i dont know what I can do to help her any more than I already have...

How do I help someone who cant seem to even try to help themselves?

Neil_1 — Mon, 16 Mar 2015 03:26:30 GMT

Hi there handsfull

Welcome to Beyond Blue and might I say that with your post, you have nailed your name to a tee – indeed, you definitely sound like you’ve got your handsfull.

Does your sister have a husband, partner or significant other? That’s not mentioned at all – but if she is without, then I’m gathering that she is now living almost the life of a recluse, on her own?

Is she far from where you live? Sorry, I’m not meaning to bombard you with endless questions, it’ll just help myself and others here get a bit more context to everything.

I suffer from severe depression, anxiety and ptsd – I have two children (16yo and 14yo) and I don’t think I could exist if they weren’t a part of my every day happenings; ok, yes, I go to work and they go to school and then at home, we kind of all do our own thing, but I’m safe in the knowledge that they’re there and we have our interactions quite often. It seems very odd that she sounds like she doesn’t even wish to get connection back with her own children.

Sorry, but another question: have you tried or do you think that if you could arrange to take her to an appointment, that (a) she’d actually go; and (b) that this “could” just get the ball rolling for her to take on more professional help? Just a thought.

Hope to hear back from you.

Neil

How do I help someone who cant seem to even try to help themselves?

handsfull — Mon, 16 Mar 2015 04:37:32 GMT

Hi Neil...

No my sister is a long term single Mum... her last relationship ended about 7 years ago - he is still on the scene in a small way and has an open invitation to come up and visit the kids - we live about 2 hrs away from where they were before... for the first 4 weeks my sister was spending the weekends with us here and then going home sunday night so she could make her appointments etc... but she didnt do anybof them... the kids wanted to go down there for the weekend so they could say proper goodbyes to their friends and my sister promised to have the house clean and even skipped a weekend visit so she could do it - but when we got there barely anything was done... and the following week was when she said she didnt think she didnt think she was good for the kids... we immediately organised to being her up to stay with Mum which is about a 20minute walk from myself, so she was up here within 3 days and has been at Mums ever since - which was about 3 weeks ago... i then organised to drop her 10yr old son off to her at 8am every morning so she could walk him to school in the hopes it would help her feel connected... she also picks him up and has 1 afternoons a week just with him and then she picks him up another day aswell and both her teenage daughters walk down and they all stay with her for dinner til i pick them up...

this was working well for the first 2 weeks... but she has now taken to sleeping in again and i am left with her son sad and disappointed because noone opens the door (my mum is getting old and has some slight disabilities and sleeps in also)... n then i take him to school myself... so i have decided that is no good for him to repeatedly deal with...

She is far from a recluse - as much as she wants the kids to think she has sat at home pining after them she has admitted that she has been out on "dates" to which she rarely comes home from... we thought that might settle down once she is living at Mums - but no it has started again...

And I understand what you mean about the kids keeping you going... i have ptsd and depression also... n my children are the same ages as yours also...

How do I help someone who cant seem to even try to help themselves?

handsfull — Mon, 16 Mar 2015 04:47:40 GMT

Also... I have taken her to a doctors appoinment after we got her up here and we got her new referrals... but it took a week to get her to book the appointments and now she refuses to go because 2 of the appointments dont bulk bill... so i said she needs to go back n find out if she can get a referral to someone who does... but trying to juggle 5 kids (her youngest has special needs that have not been properly assessed) ...and being a single working mum - just quit my job so i could start Uni this year - and have had to drop Uni back to part time now that i have the extra kids because i just cant manage it all and i dont want to set myself up for failure... but i cant juggle all the kids and her aswell... we actually dont get on super well... i just dont understand her... so i am really struggling to be supportive when she keeps hurting her kids...

We have suggested support groups n group therapy... phone counselling... private counsling... she has referals to counselling n a psychologist... she has excuses not to go to all of them... n no amount of begging n pleading works... i can motivate when i get cranky n frustrated but i am so sick of having to do that... i cant parent her and all the kids... its just doing my head in 😞

How do I help someone who cant seem to even try to help themselves?

Neil_1 — Tue, 17 Mar 2015 02:01:52 GMT

Hi there Handsfull

Thanx so much for getting back to me with your latest responses.

This is more complicated and complex than I thought.

I’m really unsure of what to advise now – as you’ve actually written down a few things that I was going to suggest; like any number of different counselling options, which all seem to go by unattended; but it’s very odd that as she’s given over her children to you, you’d think that she is of the opinion that she is needing some professional help. Yet when it’s offered, she manages to come up with ‘excuses’.

But I can see now how incredibly taxing this is for you and the effort that you’re having to make on a daily basis is going to take a fast toll on yourself to be able to cope. It’s almost to the stage that you’re going to be needing some “me time”, but to be able to find a space of time in the day for that to happen will be difficult.

I’m hoping that another poster may come along also who can provide you with something a bit more useful than what I’ve been able to do.

Kind regards

Neil

How do I help someone who cant seem to even try to help themselves?

White_Rose — Tue, 17 Mar 2015 22:01:23 GMT

Hello Handsfull

I am glad you have found time and energy to post here. Like Neil I am unsure if I give you any help but I will try.

From what you have said it does seem that your sister is hiding behind her illness. Whether this is a reaction to depression and the feeling of not being good enough, or whether this is the easy way out of her responsibilities I can't tell. But the second point is worth considering and I make that remark in all care and compassion. I suspect it's a combination of both.

Until your sister wants to get well you will be running in circles to prop her up. Again this is not a judgemental call about your sister but a fact. Everyone who writes in here knows that they only became well because they wanted to and made the effort. This also applies to your sister.

You are about to put your life on hold for her and that is not acceptable. It is a form of emotional blackmail because you love your sister and her children and want the best outcome for all of them. It's time for some tough love. Personally I hate that expression but it does say it all.

I have a couple of suggestions. First visit your GP, and make it a long appointment, for your own health. Then have a chat about your sister. This talk will be about the options for the care of her children and herself. Can your doctor arrange for or tell you how to go about putting your sister in hospital, at least for a thorough assessment?

I imagine you are raising your hands in horror at the thought but consider the alternatives. You and your family are being stressed by all that is happening. You have reduced your uni time and may end up failing your course because you are unable to do the work required.

Your sister's children are being neglected. Not by you but they have their own needs, especially the youngest who has some special needs and requires both an assessment and treatment. Your own children may start to feel pushed out by their cousins. Your mother is stuck in the middle of all this.

Then there is your sister who is clearly in need of major intervention. You cannot give her this, it's past your capability. This is a dysfunctional woman is need of immediate help and only you can get this for her.

It really grieves me to say these things because I am certain you are hurting so much. Please, call it quits and ask, or scream, for help before the whole family collapses under the strain. You could also consider calling in DOCS.

I am sending you a big hug. Be loving and strong. Get help.

Mary

How do I help someone who cant seem to even try to help themselves?

Beltane — Tue, 17 Mar 2015 22:27:51 GMT

Hi Handsfull.

Wow this must be so difficult for you. Caring for someone with severe deoression- who is really not accepting the depth of their problem or the level of necessity in getting it fixed- is tough to say the least.

she is doing something that is unfortunately not uncommon- she says with her words that she has a problem and will seek help, but her actions say otherwise.

i too, think it's time for some tough love.

life is like a boat. You're floating along Im your boat, and all your problems are things that weigh your boat down. You've already got the stresses of your own life weighing your boat down. Now you've got the worries over your sister, you care of her kids etc, weighing your boat down. Your boat is starting to sink. Her boat is already sinking. She's not doing anything to keep it afloat- missing appointments, cancelling psych appointments, making excuses.

I too think it's tough love time. This might be the hardest thing you ever have to do. Right now you are enabling her- her behaviour is atrocious (though it is the behaviour of a very sick person). I think it's time to stop letting her go on this way- did you say it's been 3 months already? You've done it her way, it's not working, try something else.

i definitely think booking a long appointment with your doctor to talk about her is a good option. If you don't have a good doctor, try to ask around, find a local clinic with good reviews and see a more senior doctor there (more experience).

as harsh as it sounds, it may be time for her to go to a mental health hospital or clinic and stay there for a few weeks. That way she will get the help that she needs and won't be able to back out.

the reality is, she is currently neglecting her children. She has just left them with you, barely visits, and has made no effort to get herself well so she can reclaim care of them. It's serious. At this point child services could become involved (I know you're not going down that road, Im merely illustrating the seriousness of what she's doing).

she needs tough love. And you don't need any more weights in your boat. I truly think you need to get the ball rolling on her going to a hospital for care. She will thank you one day, when she is better.

How do I help someone who cant seem to even try to help themselves?

Chris_B — Tue, 17 Mar 2015 22:33:17 GMT

Hi handsfull,

Welcome to the forums. This is a very complicated and stressful situation to be in, and I second the advice given above that it's very important for you to look after your own wellbeing through all this. I'd suggest giving our support service a call on 1300 22 4636.

There are also specialist organisations that give support and advice to family members caring for someone with a mental illness, I've copied some details below:

Carers Australia is a not-for-profit organisation dedicated to improving the lives of carers through important services like carer counselling, advice, advocacy, education and training.
Mental Health Carers Arafmi Australia (MHCAA) provide specialist mental health support to families, carers and their friends. Support includes: linking people to other carers who can offer face-to-face peer support, education services with other carers, and advocacy services which help carers to identify and find solutions to their challenges.
Carer Advisory and Counselling Service provide family carer support and counselling. Contact your state or territory branch of Carers Association on 1800 242 636 (free call from landlines).

How do I help someone who cant seem to even try to help themselves?

geoff — Tue, 17 Mar 2015 23:00:12 GMT

dear Handful, I am so pleased that Neil and Mary have replied back to you on a very difficult post that we are all scratching our heads as to what to suggest.

Your sister's condition has meant that she thrown all her responsibility as a mother out the window and this has being going on for a long time, possibly believing that with you looking after them then they will OK, but no to the contrary it has affected your life, your uni course and I agree it may be worth deferring it until you are more settled, which isn't now by any means.

I also agree that you need to go and see your own doctor and explain all the circumstances and ask whether it's possible to have her admitted into hospital under the mental health act, where she will receive prompt medical attention and administered the appropriate medication.

The only way now is that she is forced into care, otherwise this is just going to be drawn out even further than it has, maybe the doctor may say that she has neglected her duties as a parent and needs urgent attention, which only a hospital can do.

Too much time has passed and she won't seek treatment by herself.

I wonder how her children feel about her and whether they really want to go back to her, or whether you feel comfortable if this happens.

At the moment it's a no-win situation for everybody unless she is forced into care.

L Geoff. x

How do I help someone who cant seem to even try to help themselves?

Pixie15 — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 04:23:02 GMT

Hi handsfull,

I have read all the posts so far in your thread and have tried to take it all in. There is a lot of practical and helpful information which I will try not to repeat.

Your sister is unwell and the negative things she has been doing may be a result of her illness but that does not mean that you need to tolerate them. If she is going out spending money on escapist activities instead of medical treatments that is unacceptable behavior

If you have had her children for a few months it sounds like you have taken them for the school holidays and have enrolled them in the new school because you were unable to send them back home again. This must be very hard for them. Especially as the uncertainty for their future may impact on their ability to commit to their new situation and make friends and really get involved in the school life.

I am certain you have done all you have for the right reasons however you have taken responsibility away from your sister for things that you cannot really control. I think family services try to keep families together as much as they can and if you have not already done so you might want to think about contacting them to clarify your legal status regarding the care of the children.

Having family members who suffer depression I am aware of how much a depressed person can lose the ability to do things in any routine way. However I also think that having a routine can have a positive impact on a depressed person. If your mother has her own health problems and neither of them have any routine then living with her may not be a good outcome for either of them.

If your sister was living 2 hours away is there any way that you can convince her to permanently relocate her household closer to you. This way you could do what you can to assist her and the children while still maintaining a separate family unit. Although you do not want to have to end up trying to manage two households. You did however I think write in an earlier post that a couple of her children are teenagers. Possibly if they have had a difficult life they may be quite mature for their age and may be able to help.

Anyway I would be interested to hear if any of the ideas in the posts have helped you at all.

Grateful.

How do I help someone who cant seem to even try to help themselves?

handsfull — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 13:13:52 GMT

Thank you to everyone that has replied... all the advice has been wonderful... i hadn't had time to reply until now as wo much has just happened... My mother decided she couldnt handle my sisters behaviour any longer and was going to ask her to leave and go back to Sydney... I went around there for a big chat with my sister... admittedly it didn't go as smoothly as I had intended as I became extremely frustrated at her blankness and lack of emotional response to anything and everything... i did talk to her about being assessed as her behaviour and attitude to life and her health and her children just isnt anywhere within any range you would expect... she has just shut down so far in so many ways... she agreed to be assessed and has volountarily been addmitted into a mental health clinic...

There are a LOT of things in the background of all of this - and havjng the psych question her on things that none of us ever thought to ask seems to have brought some perspective and ownership to some degree... she even said to me last night that they asked her if she wants to stay for a couple of days - and she thinks she wants to stay a bit longer - just not sure how long right now - she said she doesnt think she is capable of coming out and facing all of the problems just yet... which is a huge thing to actually hear her say - she has never really admitted that she sees much of a problem with her life other than the kids being too much for her...

As a background info - FACS (DOCS) were called very early on after it was decided the children would stay with me and are very aware of the situation since before I was as it appears... They were not far off intervening on a serious level from what I understand and I am under strict request to notify them if/when the children go back into her care...

The children are hurt and angry and confused and conflicted and feeling guilty and embarrassed... they blame themselves for letting out all the things they have - and at the same time you can see they are relieved and much more settled and happy now they arent living with the catastrophe their lives were all becoming... having spoke with their counsellors I have had to accept that the emotional and every day neglect that they suffered was abusive and traumatic and it will be a long road healing for all 3 of them...

How do I help someone who cant seem to even try to help themselves?

White_Rose — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 22:41:00 GMT

Dear Handsfull

Your post is fantastic. This has been a tremendous breakthrough for all of you. I realise that in some ways this has placed more stress on you and I do hope you are taking care of yourself. I cannot remember if you said you have had some counselling. If not it may be a good idea to get it off your chest, so to speak.

Your sister's children have been through the wringer but hopefully, with this early intervention from counsellors, they will recover. How are your children coping? This will have affected them as well.

Has your sister made any plans about where she is going to live? It may be a bit too early yet but if your mother is unable to cope with her then she must go somewhere. I suggest she does not live with you. I think she may relapse into depending on you. But this is something your sister needs to talk about with the psychiatrist.

Yes the children always suffer the most. They will need help so that they do not believe it's their fault. Children are so good at taking the blame in these situations so if I may suggest, take every opportunity to reassure them.

I think you are all in for a long period of taking appropriate responsibility and of healing. It seems at this stage that your sister has stepped on to that road with her acknowledgement that there are problems to be faced. I suspect it will be a long road. Remember to rejoice at every milestone and every success and remind each other how far you have all come.

I hope you continue to post here so that we can continue to support you as long as it is needed.

Mary

How do I help someone who cant seem to even try to help themselves?

Pixie15 — Thu, 19 Mar 2015 22:42:13 GMT

Hi handsfull,

Thank you for the update. It sounds like you have made a little progress with your sister accepting that she is in need of help. At least this gives you all some hope for change.

My heart breaks for the children. I hope your sister comes to appreciate how they have really helped her in speaking out.

cheers,

Grateful.

How do I help someone who cant seem to even try to help themselves?

Neil_1 — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 00:33:56 GMT

Hi there Handsful

Thank you so much for your latest post, and you are right, a lot has been happening of late and thanx for being able to share it.

Ok, so for now, it is pleasing that your sister has allowed herself to be admitted to a mental health clinic – as for how she is at the moment and has been for some time this would appear to be the best place she could be in.

And yet within all of this, her children are still very much in the headlines; for what they’ve had to experience and for all that they’ve seen of late as well and as you rightly say, this will take some time for them to get over.

Now, this leaves you and your own children and how you’ll all be in the next little while (possibly an undetermined amount of time) and have you been thinking about ways to get yourself some peace and quiet time, just so your own batteries don’t wear out too quickly?

Neil

How do I help someone who cant seem to even try to help themselves?

geoff — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 02:53:30 GMT

dear Handsfull, thanks for giving us some good news, but something has convinced your sister that she is need of help, and I do hope that she does stay there until she feels a bit better, but a bit betteris not really enough, she has to accept what she has and realise that she has 3 children, not saying this it's terrific that she has accepted the fact that she needs some help, and whatever has sparked her is interesting.

First of all your stamina and love for her and the kids has to be admired and congratulated, because it's not an easy task to undertake, but you have to look after yourself, because if and when or even before, that you have to prepare yourself so that you don't fall into a hole yourself, and that's why you have to see your doctor/psych so that they can assist you when it happens.

You have been a major force behind her children, but it's your kids as well which you have had to carry for a long time,and hey, I'm not forgetting about you as well, so please keep in touch with us. L Geoff. x