topic Advice needed - Please .... in Supporting family and friends

Advice needed - Please ....

Neil_1 — Tue, 13 May 2014 07:49:07 GMT

Dear friends

I don’t know how to write this – I’ve been thinking on how to do this in the best way – you know, without giving away too much information – um, that’s not making sense. I’ll try this.

Last year we (my partner and I) knew that our son had self harmed. Not good as you know, self-harming can lead to life-time memories/scars. I’ve run this by Beyond Blue and I’m not allowed to mention the where’s and how’s for what he did – but just to say that it’s highly concerning for us. The school called us and we were able to speak with him – after some time, we found out that he was doing this because he had friends who were in really bad places and were considering the ‘s’ word. That really shook him up, as he is a deeply caring boy.

Fast forward to last Tuesday – we were called to his school (a new school by the way) – he was found by some other boys self-harming again. The same kind of self harm that he was doing last year, only last week, it was a lot more. We met up with the head teacher and also our son (he’s 16yo by the way) – he had bandages where he had self harmed.

We were both in shock about this – and had no idea that he was doing this – and apparently he’s been doing it for some time (like months and months) and he’s just been very good at hiding it. The clever little bugga! Only he's not so little anymore - he's about my height now.

So this was the post I was going to send last week, when Maresy was saying she thought there was something up with me, and I told her back that she has amazing intuition. But I decided not too, until now – and I do this now, because he’s done it again today!

He's bandaged again and I’m just gutted! We’re beside ourselves with worry – he is unable, or won’t tell us why he’s doing this. There is no anger at all, there is nothing but love and support in this family – he’s told us it’s not what prompted it last year for him. He has said there’s nothing wrong at his school and that that’s all fine.

He has said that it’s nothing to do with his home/family life. (Wow, it sounds like he talks a lot, but that’s not the case – we just gently ask questions and he’ll just say, ‘no it’s not that’.)

We’re now trying to go through different things for what it might be – because there is something there for him that’s really terrible (he’s suggested as such) but he cannot tell us. I’ve told him similar stories that I’ve responded to on this site, and where if the person keeps things to themselves, the situation will only get worse.

He’s been to see a counselor and also a GP - but again, that is something that is in strictest confidence and that nothing said there can be known by us.

This is ripping us up inside and at the moment, I’m injured in legs and in arms, so cannot go to the gym for my workout sessions – so with everything else that is affecting me mentally, this new thing has just swept over everything else and is like a ‘news alert’ a siren with flashing lights attached and is dominating my mind terribly.

I know we cannot force him to tell us – and my partner has tried to be with him to see if he’d open up, but all to no avail. I have tried on a couple of occasions – in fact, only just half an hour ago and I was met with – “I just don’t want to talk about it”.

I have my own psychologist appointment this Thursday – hey can you guess what might be on the Agenda for that session?

I don’t know what to do. I really feel helpless. Any thoughts/suggestions would be so welcome.

Neil

Advice needed - Please ....

white knight — Tue, 13 May 2014 08:47:28 GMT

Neil, my arms are open, reaching you to you and your partner.

Your post reads to me that he could be part of a pact, a bunch of kids that are getting together toying/experimenting with this...?...plan/ploy.

Are there any other friends of his that you could visit to ask their parent for some clues? I'm at a loss...if he has no inner family issues then what could it be?

family trip to the beach (day off school) lunch somewhere on the beach and he might open up. Is he at driving age (learners?) if not a direction to get his learners. Diversion?

Good luck with this. Whatever you do its going to have to be in the immediate future.

Advice needed - Please ....

Jo3 — Tue, 13 May 2014 10:08:50 GMT

Dear Neil

My heart goes out to you and your partner. From reading your posts last week I had a feeling that something wasn't right.

This is so difficult. I agree with White Knight in maybe going out for the day with your son and see if he opens up and even chatting with his friends parents.

Neil, I am stuck to know what to say to you. But just know that I am thinking of you and your partner and hope and pray that your son will be okay.

Sending you a big hug, pls keep us updated,

Pls take care

Advice needed - Please ....

Bridge — Tue, 13 May 2014 11:25:06 GMT

hi neil

i dont have kids so i feel silly even replying to you!

(really i just wanted to send you a big ehug, and the rest of your family too.)

but on reflection, I guess just being around and open to conversation is all you can do- just give him a forum to speak in if he wants to use it. you cant force him to talk. At least then you can feel that you have given it a red hot shot, which might help you at least. It certainly sounds like you are doing everything you can.

the ideas of jo and WK sound like good ones to me- might be a good start.

Good luck

Bridge

Advice needed - Please ....

CrashCoyote — Tue, 13 May 2014 12:17:50 GMT

Hi Neil,

I wish I had some good advice for you, my friend.

I have five kids of my own and although I have faced trials with them, some more than others, nothing like what your boy is going through.

Wishing I could do more.

Kind regards, John.

Advice needed - Please ....

Stuck14 — Tue, 13 May 2014 12:33:44 GMT

Neil, my heart broke when I read this. I am so very sorry that you an your family are experiencing this. It's horrible. I guess I just wanted to write from the other side of the fence, as someone who has (and still does to a lesser degree) self harm. It's a difficult situation. An alot of what I'm going to say your probably already doing, so sorry in advance.

For me, when my parents found out I wanted space, not to be questioned about why an that is frustrating for both sides. You because you want to help him an make the pain stop, but it's quite possible that he may not be able to articulate what it is that has led to this behaviour. There is also alot of shame and fear around self harm, especially for the person that is experiencing it. It is something to hide an.not be spoken about, it's your personal pain an it's so isolating, even with love and support (I guess, I didn't have either). Fear can be in two forms, one of accidentally going "too far" and two, the fear of having it taken away from you. You might think it sounds silly, and I'm speaking from personal experience, but the worst thing you could do is take away the self harm. At the moment, that's a coping strategy keeping him afloat, but it might also be a comfort too. Something that allows him to escape the pain, if only for a moment an where time can stand still, in that moment you feel the ability to breathe for the first time. Also that overwhelming sense of numbness or emotional pain is now something physical and real. The pain is something that can be "felt" an "seen" even if only for yourself. It releases that pressure that's built and allows you to keep functioning.

Yet, at the same time you just want to be loved. All I ever wanted was to be told I was loved and cared for and supported no matter what an just hugged, held tight. To feel safe and secure. That would have gone along way, for me anyway.

As long as he knows all this, which I believe he does than just being there and available for him when he is ready is all you can do, coz the more you prod, the more he might hold back. It's gotta be when.he is ready an not a moment sooner. It's possibly also of slight relief an terror that he knows you both an others know. The secret itself can be quite toxic.

I'm sorry if none of this makes any sense, an I'm not sure if the moderators will edit it or not. I guess I was hoping to give you some insight into possibly what he might be experiencing. If you have an questions, just ask.

Again, I'm just so sorry that your all having to go through this. I just hope that he gets through this sooner rather than later. Wouldn't wish it upon anyone.

Sending you much support an many hugs.

Advice needed - Please ....

Girl_Anachronism — Tue, 13 May 2014 14:05:46 GMT

Hi Neil,

You know I read this post earlier today and had to go away and think what to say in response. Coz, without going into detail, I have been in his position. I've hidden the marks. To this day I have those scars.

Why I am not sure what to say is not because of my previous history, I am at peace with that. I am unsure because my family were not the loving environment you provide, so my reaction was to release the pain inside in other ways. I also remember being a teenager, and even if I had loving parents such as you, I still wouldn't tell everything. It is just a thing at that age.

So I can't really say anymore than what others have said. Try to distract him and give him opportunities to open up, but don't pressure him. Acceptthat he may not open up to you - but he mah open up to a friends, a friends parents or counsellor. Get him back along to see the gp and or counsellor if it helps, even he can't say why. Even in my teenage years, I had two friends who knew about my ...habits. they didn't themselves but they were there for me when I would say that I was feeling bad and wanted to do things.

The pain will out, and in time you will know why. For now, as bad as it is, all you can do is give him opportunities, and watch for the signs you would know all to well in yourself that he might do something more drastic.

I feel for you, I really do Neil. I wish I had better advice to give. Being the lovely people you are is really the best thing you can do for him. He will tell someone, or work through whatever it is. If he has any of the strength that you possess, he will get through this.

Advice needed - Please ....

geoff — Tue, 13 May 2014 15:50:11 GMT

dear Neil, my friend, this is such a worrying situation for you and your partner, and I'm sure that the both of you have been wondering why the hell this is this happening, and I wish in all my honest sincerity that I could be there with you.

Unfortunately it is so hard for our kids to open up to their parents, and I also mean with partners, so they never seem to want us to know, just like my sons went through a short period of smoking bongs, and at first I was horrified, they don't now and haven't for a long time, but this was kept a secret, just the same as your son self harming, maybe they worry about their curfew or entitlements being cut down, or restricted.

Oh boy it's such a concern, and I could give you a list of maybe why, but I'm sure that the both of you have considered every angle, but I'm not too sure if he is going to mention why to either of you at the present time.

Now Neil I am going to mention one idea, and I know that you won't be upset by what I say, anyway I have to say it, and I really don't want you to lose faith in me when I say it.

At his age of 16 years old the hormones are so powerful, so that he maybe wondering about his own sexuality, sorry, because I really care for you and what you have done on the site.

My youngest son had become anorexic when my wife and I were having trouble and also when we were sleeping apart, probably a year before our divorce, so I wanted him to see my psychologist who I had seen for 20 years, he also got on well with her, but after a couple of visits he didn't explain to her why, and this is because he thought that the psych and I would have spoken about it, but she wouldn't tell me anything.

So maybe if you send him to a psych it should be a new person.

My heart goes out to the both of you and your son, and I do hope that you keep this post going, because at the moment it's very important for us to support you this time. Geoff.

Advice needed - Please ....

Guest_3712 — Tue, 13 May 2014 20:09:44 GMT

Hi Neil,

unfortunately like some others here I have personal experience with this.

I was a very troubled teenager and this was a release of sorts for me. it is very hard to rationalize / explain.

What I do know is I would never tell any adults why.

The fact that your son seems to be doing this in a group may mean its not his own personal issue and I would also try and find out if any of the other parents can help with the why ( discreetly of course)

I would also approach the counsellor or GP and while they have to keep your son's confidence they may be able to alleviate your concerns a bit as to what his triggers may be , and what you may be able to do.

You are doing all the right things and while I know this isn't much consolation when faced with such a scary situation keep on providing the love, support and open lines of communication.

Your instinct to protect him is natural and finding that fine line without suffocating them is hard. I also think some diversion tactics as suggested would be a good idea.

Good luck Neil and

Be kind to yourself

Stressless

Advice needed - Please ....

Neil_1 — Tue, 13 May 2014 23:10:30 GMT

Firstly DEAR ALL,

This is too important to play off with just one response to a global all and your posts have been so fantastic to read, so I'm delivering an individual to each - hope you don't mind.

Having said that I might tip White Knight and Jo together:

Dear White Knight;

From all indications we've seen and know, he is the only one doing this. There isn't any group thing involved (and you know as sick as this sounds, I would have hoped there'd be others - it might have made more sense - but yeah, I know I shouldn't have said that, but why is it just our son?). So no group issue there.

He's been such a recluse for a long period of time now - so we barely see him; he gets home and goes to his room and there he stays for sooooo long - he has tv, and internet and he chats to people on line. He's a great kid - he knows right from wrong and he's got a great set of morale standards.

And thanx for mentioning because yes, he's on his "L" plates - I've even done the old country dad thing (hence me being born on a farm and I could drive very early on as it's just a farm thing) - but yeah, I've taken him out to the back blocks where there's some roads and next to no cars and had him driving a little, learning. Wow, I hope CrashCoyote isn't reading this! 🙂 Although he be an ex policeman now, so that should be all good. So yeah, he's on his L's and has a little go at driving. Very early days yet, but signs are good so far.

Dear Jo

Again, thank you for your response, when you've got so many things on your plate at the moment. But then, I guess so many of us do - we just push those things to the side of the plate and take on something else - just to keep our minds occupied, eh?

And on your other thread, you mentioned about our daughter - and more different the two could be is just amazing - she's out with us all the time, either doing her own thing or doing something with us - so we see her all the time and chat away, etc. But they are both their own people and that's great.

One thing my partner did tell me last night was that a work colleague went through something similar and it was strongly suggested to her to NOT forget the other sibling and to be very careful with things for her - I think it was probably a good thing to say, but hells bells, there'd be no way I'd ever forget my daughter.

Neil

Advice needed - Please ....

Neil_1 — Tue, 13 May 2014 23:17:39 GMT

To John and Bridge,

Thank you so much for your posts and support.

And yes, Bridge, we have always been of the opinion that our home is open for one and all (within our family of course - as you probably know, I'm not good when it comes to outsiders/visitors, etc) but open and OPEN in communication. We have always expressed that, from the word go, so they could always feel or at least hopefully feel comfortable in coming to either of us to talk about things.

So of late, we've been going to his room - knocking first of course - and just being there for him if he wants, but he usually doesn't want. But when something bad happens, he will come out and give the biggest strongest hugs imaginable - I'm ok with that sort of thing, but I think he might break some ribs in my partner if he did the same thing. But that's so great. But yeah, it's a worry.

You know, both my kids know I suffer from depression, etc. I remember my daughter being fine with it - but I strongly remember my son seeming to take it differently. So me being me, I cannot help to wonder if for some reason these turn of events are somehow related to me. I don't know.

Neil

Advice needed - Please ....

Neil_1 — Tue, 13 May 2014 23:31:19 GMT

Dear Shay

Whoa - thank you so much for your post - you're dealing with your devils every second of every minute and you took the time out to post. Thank you. It means so much to me.

In a morbid kind of way this is possibly why I've posted this - because I just had this suspicion that some of the wonderful people on here would have gelled with what my son is doing, because they may have done it as well - and out of that, I was hoping for responses (which I've received) as to what they think and yeah, I'm rambling again.

I feel quite overwhelmed actually.

Shay, your post made complete sense - and we've also heard that as well with what you said about prodding will only make them withdraw further, but also to not take away the things that he's using to self harm. Having said that last week, I asked him if he had any more, and he said 'yes'. Last night I asked the same thing and he said, 'no, i don't have any more now'. I guess all we can do is to believe him.

Last week, his teacher said to him, that you must show your parents when you get home - so they can see (the teacher is extremely nice and said it in a really positive fashion) but no, he never showed us.

I've said to him on a couple of occasions of late, that there's nothing he could ever say or DO that will change the way we feel about him. In fact as each day goes by we love him more and more. I always go and sit by my daughter as well and tell her that - and both children respond with massive hugs. So they know and they understand.

The thing that troubles me is that he KNOWS he's got a loving family and that we're 100% supportive - so there's the question - why is he doing it? But am I being really dumb here - as in, why do I have depression?

I don't know. And Shay, these questions aren't for you or really anyone, I'm just thinking out loud.

Neil

Advice needed - Please ....

Neil_1 — Tue, 13 May 2014 23:46:00 GMT

Dear GA

Thank you also for your wonderful post - I do have a burning question for you. You said, you used to self harm and you say you're now at peace with that. Is that at peace with the marks left or the reasons that you self harmed.

Now this is a question for yourself, Shay, Stressless and others who have self harmed like this when you were younger - how long did it last for and was there a particular turning point that made you think, 'ok, I don't need to do this anymore?"

To dear Stressless;

Also, thank you so much for your wonderful reply. Again a question for you: (I really sound like an L plate parent, don't i) - I've been on my "L"s for 16 years. I might progress to P's in another 16 years time! By which time, I'll be a complete basket case.

Ess-Elle, you said that no way would you ever tell your parents. "What if" your parents 'he-man' and 'she-ra', dad and mum extraordinaire of the suburbs and there'd be nothing you could possibly say or do that would affect their love for you? You knew that deep down that if you came forward and told them, they'd offer you nothing but support and love. Would you still not tell them?

Dear Geoff

Dear friend, nothing you would ever say could upset me so always feel free to post your thoughts - they are always so much appreciated. Our son isn't one for eating much and he's probably at a very low level of body fat - not saying he's anoxeric or anything, but just saying.

From all intents and purposes, we "think" he's got a girlfriend, but it may not be that serious - he went on a recent camp - an overnighter and he came back in great spirits and even mentioned about how many friends he has at this school. That was so pleasing to hear.

One item of kind of news flash here: from what my partner was able to find out last night was that yesterday's occurrance was bought about apparently by some awful words that were spoken to him by 'other kids' who knew of his actions of last week. Teasing kinds of things. Now that makes my blood boil - makes me wanna be the alpha dog and go and protect him in a way I know how - but in this society we can't do that.

Neil

Advice needed - Please ....

geoff — Wed, 14 May 2014 00:33:46 GMT

dear Neil, my friend, thanks for replying to each of us individually, a mammoth effort by yourself, and sometimes we would dearly love to be there with you, but at this point of time it may not be appropriate for you, in which case I fully understand, because if we were with you, it could be just dominating your own thoughts, and then clouding any decision.

Sometimes when kids come back from a camp they can say 'how many friends they have at school', which could mean that to himself he maybe trying to convince himself that he has no enemies there, and what this means is that he is trying to believe that he won't be picked on by any of his 'mates'.

It really is a false belief that he trying to talk himself into, but now it's back-fired, but the best part is that he has started to open up or give an indication of why he has hurt himself.

Take care my friend. Geoff.

Advice needed - Please ....

Neil_1 — Wed, 14 May 2014 01:11:07 GMT

Yeah, I just mentioned the camp thing for some reason, but I'm not sure why.

We actually got him out of a 'large' camp thing from his school from last year - it was a 10-night thing away in the wilderness, somewhere up in the mountains of Victoria. I've spoken to mates, who used to go to that school and they had to do that - and the thing they most likened it to was aspects from the book, "Lord of the Flies". Hmmm, just great for developing young men! Not! Anyway, we wrote to the Principal and we were able to get him out of doing that.

Anyway, that's not it - my thoughts are just wandering. It's the fact that he's been doing this for a long time is one of the big things here. So there's something that's troubling him and I honestly don't think it's school related. So I'm at a loss as to what it could be.

Neil

Advice needed - Please ....

Guest_3712 — Wed, 14 May 2014 02:19:40 GMT

Hi Neil,

You ask what if my parents were "dad and mum extraordinaire of the suburbs" and I was secure in their love for me " would I have told them.

Wow! I had to think about that because obviously this was not the case.

Ok the only way I can answer this is if my kids had ever had this sort of problem I would of course, like you, been a/ devastated, b/ upset and confused but ultimately nothing would have mattered except that they knew they could come to me.

Given my history I have always tried to keep the lines of communication open and no topic is off limits. My children do not know my history as I have fierce need to protect them and not pollute their mind with the ugliness of my past

( my psych doesn't agree with this he thinks I should tell them at some point )

I guess like a lot of us that have gone through and done certain things we are super sensitive to the same issues with our kids. I would still try and suss out the councillor for some guide as to what you can be doing.

I think it was GA that said even if with the best parents in the world its the age thing a lot of the time that stops our kids confiding in us. Feelings like shame, fear, frustration , confusion etc are all magnified a thousand fold when you are a teenager.

Shay got it right. her post was so insightful and spot on and it actually brought back a lot of the feelings I had way back when. Whew ! all good but I wonder why I pay a shrink the big bucks when you guys on here are worth so much more.

sorry Neil lost the plot a bit here. be assured you are doing all the right things. Be alert to changes , keep trying to communicate but not push, distraction techniques , lots of love and impulsive hugs and kisses go a long way. Also good reminder to not overlook daughter's needs too.

sorry if I made it more confusing

be kind to yourself friend

Stressless

Advice needed - Please ....

Stuck14 — Wed, 14 May 2014 02:39:46 GMT

Neil, how are YOU going??

Please make sure that you are taking care of yourself too ok! You need to look after.yourself so that you can be there for your kids an partner.

This is a response to your question and please remember that each person is different, it's a case by case scenario an this is just my personal experience.

I wish that I could tell you that I had a moment of clarity an I realised that that survival technique was no longer needed, but it would do you no good to lie. I first started self harming when I was 13, an it is still something I struggle with on a daily basis at the age of 27. Over the years I have had longish periods of time when the urges where not so overwhelming that I couldn't help but not to act on the need to hurt myself, but the thoughts are always there. The times when I would self harm would last month's, every day, maybe several times a day. I required.surgery a couple of times, but when the surgeons realised it was self inflicted, they refused. This has left me quite disfigured an unable to wear clothes that expose those areas. You, (and I know you are) need to fight for him in whatever way you can. This is something that has really affected me, not feeling worth fighting for. But like I said, you are probably already doing this.

How's your daughter going? Is she aware of the situation? Are your son an daughter close?

An try not to get him to make any promises as if he feels he can't keep them, it may be another catalyst for self harming. I hope that your son doesn't have have any lasting reminders of this when he is older as it can really hold you back. Just a thought, an I might be out of line, maybe he doesn't want to tell you out of protection for you. You said that he is aware of your depression and where your at, and DON'T take this the.wrong way please, this is NOT YOUR FAULT! So please, no blaming yourself ok, but maybe him being the thoughtful loving an caring young man that he is, he doesn't want to cause you anymore stress, distress or pain by "burdening" you with his pain an that by relieving this may cause it for you. An I know you would never see it that way, but it's a possibility at the least.

Advice needed - Please ....

Girl_Anachronism — Wed, 14 May 2014 09:39:33 GMT

Hi Neil,

By my statement that I am at piece with it, I am at piece with my scars, I am at peace that it was a coping mechanism and I accept that at the time it was all I knew how to deal with. I am not at peace with the issues behind it. I am working through them, but it is a long and complicated mess of difficult to swallow issues.

I am at peace with history more than anything because I know I can't go back and change it. So if an interaction is going to last longer than 30 seconds or I will have further contact with someone and they ask, I will tell them the truth. They can either handle it or they can't. If they can't I don't need them around me. If it is just a cashier at a checkout that I am about to leave and never see again, I'll dodge the subject or say I volunteer at an animal shelter. The lie doesn't hurt me because they don't really mean anything to me.

I used to say that after a long two years of this in high school, there came a night where I survived something, not by flawed method or healing abilities, but because I said no to that particular darkness. It wasn't a magic pill, the next night was just as bad. But I thought to myself, if I said no last night , I can say it again. And so on and so forth. It turned into days between dark thoughts, then weeks, then months. Looking back I decided I didnt want to be that person I was becoming. I didnt like that person. So I chose to be different.

It helped at the time that my parents separated shortly after, so pressure was off a little without dad there all the time. 2 years ago, I thought if I could just do that again, decide that again, I could save myself. But I couldn't replicate it. Looking back now, I question whether I truly did decide that, or I just buried that person for as long as I could forget her.

Now, she won't be forgotten. She refuses. Now, my task is to deal with her, with the need for self harm and pain outside to equalise the inside. Now, I have to go through every thing I buried back then, and properly fix it, not just bury it for 7 years from now, like a poisonous time capsule.

Have I self harmed since my teenage years? Yes.

Have I felt the urge? A thousand times more than I have actually gone through with creating more scars.

Have there been times, even this past week when I felt that urge? Yes.

Will I recieve an email about this post from the moderators about this reply? Probably yes.

But this is the honest truth. I don't know if it helps. But this has been my honest experience and thoughts. I hope you don't think less of me for this.

GA

Advice needed - Please ....

Girl_Anachronism — Thu, 15 May 2014 01:21:24 GMT

Just a quick post to say I have responded, just waiting on mod approval.

Hope you are doing OK and thinking of you today, Neil.

Advice needed - Please ....

KiwiDave — Thu, 15 May 2014 03:31:08 GMT

Hi Neil

I really just wanted to send you out a huge e-hug and to let you know to hang in there!

I'm 25, with no kids, and I've suffered from severe depression since around the age of 16. While I never self harmed, I took the other route to turned to drugs to try to fix my problems. It may not be the same thing, but if it wasn't for my Dad just keeping at me from day 1 I honestly don't know if I'd be here today.

All of those times he would bug me with questions like "Whats up?", "Everything alright?" I would hate it and would refuse to answer - but in hindsight it was those times where all I wanted was for him to leave me alone that I realized that someone really cared and that gave me the power to push through and continue on.

Tell him from me that there is nothing to be scared of from sharing, it's the hardest thing in the world to do, hell, before I could admit to my parents that I did drugs and was in debt I think I spent about three days in bed crying because I was so embarrassed about it! It's not going to be easy, but you *will* get through it!

Please keep doing what you're doing, just from reading your posts you're an amazing caring father, and any son would be lucky to call you their Dad.

Hang in there Neil!

Regards

Dave