topic Re: Can Love Your Family,But Don’t Have to like them as People in Relationship and family issues

Can Love Your Family,But Don’t Have to like them as People

ABC01 — Tue, 15 Oct 2024 11:39:39 GMT

Dear All,

I have been told by many people including mental health professionals,that you can love your family members, but don’t have to actually like them as people. Or even choose them as friends or people you would interact with otherwise.

I am finding this very truthful at the moment. Throughout the years, I have consistently lowered my expectations and they still haven’t been met. And if I were to label them from an outsiders pov, narcissistic,debasing, gaslighting,enabling and the ability to not be empathetic would be words I’d use to describe some of my family.

Sometimes I have come to accept that this is a certain aspect of this person and still find a way to love them,knowing they won’t change. It hurts and it takes some time to come to terms with.

What are your experiences/thoughts on this titled topic?

And when if you wouldn’t stand for it from a friend or acquaintance,do you not stand for it from family?

And then what choices do you have?

Thank you.

ABC01

Re: Can Love Your Family,But Don’t Have to like them as People

smallwolf — Tue, 15 Oct 2024 12:19:56 GMT

hello and welcome.

I hope you don't mind a short reply here, as I could go on for a long time. (I have been seeing a psychologist for few years now as what you wrote about is part of my story.) And my Dad died at the beginning of this year. At that time, there was bond I knew I had with the man. And while in therapy there was/is all the stuff that I would talk about which made me feel unworthy, hopeless etc. It's a contradiction that is hard to come to terms with...

Re: Can Love Your Family,But Don’t Have to like them as People

ABC01 — Wed, 16 Oct 2024 05:08:50 GMT

Dear smallwolf,

Thank you for your reply.

Thank you for empathising with me and I support you on your journey too.

It is a tricky one…

ABC01

Re: Can Love Your Family,But Don’t Have to like them as People

smallwolf — Wed, 16 Oct 2024 11:06:51 GMT

So how are you at the moment?

Re: Can Love Your Family,But Don’t Have to like them as People

ABC01 — Thu, 17 Oct 2024 10:56:28 GMT

Dear smallwolf,

I am not great. I have multiple issues going on and then had a massive fight with a family member out of the blue,that put me into a state of shock. My body has slowed down and my mind has gone quiet. I am having trouble being able to write words with a pen. And it is very hard to stay awake,because I feel distressed.

However, I did sit down with that person today to discuss the fight and some of the things said. There is closure on that fight. So I am hoping that will help alleviate some of the stress and things may ease.

I know family is supposed to be unconditional love. But maybe that isn’t reality. Maybe that is just a saying used,like a Hallmark card. I am just not sure how much reality I can really take at the moment. So maybe I just need to focus on just myself. I am just not sure of the direction. Self care and I can call the hotline. I can also talk on here too.

So thank you for asking. That helped more then you know today.

ABC01

Re: Can Love Your Family,But Don’t Have to like them as People

smallwolf — Thu, 17 Oct 2024 12:27:00 GMT

Hey there 🙂

One of the things I worked out with my family at least was to the not bring up topics that could cause problems. Does that mean I was not true to myself. Probably. But for me that was better than getting into an argument or debate. I should perhaps add that I am also a people pleaser type person. I also have my own family and seeing the "others" was/is something you (read "I") have control over.

Now.... taking care of yourself is very important. And it was also good to read that you were able to resolve (?) the fight you mentioned. Might I ask how the fight started? (Something else I worked out was to walk away from a discussion if it was about to turn ugly.)

And writing things down (as you have done) can also be a helpful way of getting things out of yourself.

I hope we might be able to chat for a few days or longer to come...

Re: Can Love Your Family,But Don’t Have to like them as People

ABC01 — Fri, 18 Oct 2024 10:38:14 GMT

Hello smallwolf,

I am a peacekeeper personality myself. I try to put out fires before they start and diffuse any conflict before it starts. I might add, most of the time in the last couple of years they haven’t been as successful as before. Instead of trying to give a different perspective, I am often seen as “knowing it all” or “being inflexible/black or white”. “Always having something to say”. The trouble and truth with that, is I know alot of things different family members have confided in me,so I am trying to stop a situation getting worse,but without betraying a confidence.

I believe alot of people avoid topics to not start arguments. It is easier and less energy to do so. Plus the fallout to deal with. Many people aren’t level headed and open for a conversation where you can have different points of view,and be able to walk away understanding each others and that be okay, however not agreeing with each other. Usually one has to give in to the other or pretend they are. There is usually a dominant person too. And they are always someone you want to avoid confrontation with.

The argument started over the person doing something I asked them not to do. Something small and simple,if listened too. They didn’t,and they told me that they didn’t. Unfortunately the issue was over a massive fear of mine and when I tried to explain why to them, not doing what I had asked was a big issue for me, I was called irrational. Nothing I tried to explain was computed or tried to be seen if they put themselves in my shoes. So we just kept escalating. I have stopped many heightened conversations before,(I have been taught how to assert boundaries in therapy)but this one hit a nerve. And that nerve made me Roar. I don’t want to explain that nerve,it is incredibly raw, but it is something I talk to professionals about. So it is very important to me and sensitive. So the fight only ended with harsh words and the neighbours definitely heard it all.

I wanted the argument to be talked through and certain things that were said,from both sides to be explained and apologised for. So the harshest statements were settled between us and I no longer feel I have to avoid them now. Unfortunately, I do live with my immediate family and don’t have the luxury of space from them. Sometimes that is a curse, but sometimes it is a blessing.

I am happy to keep chatting too. It isn’t nice to hear others experience the things I do,but that in a way,there is comfort in that. And that small slice of it can be a day changer depending on what is happening in life.

It is the biggest shame to have to hide your real self from anyone at all.

So please feel free to say anything you need to,even if we are addressing something about myself.
ABC01

Re: Can Love Your Family,But Don’t Have to like them as People

smallwolf — Sun, 20 Oct 2024 11:59:51 GMT

You mentioned therapy in your email, so I'll bite there ...

I have been seeing a psychologist and psychiatrist for about 7 years (now) and less often than a few years ago. For myself, I know that change takes time. It can take a long time. Sigh. Even when it comes to communication using "I" vs "you" can make a big difference. Or "wish" instead of "but". There are plenty of other examples. This stuff comes from how people would talk to me and my reaction. I tend to be dismissive of things like compliments and feel responsible when things don't work out. Stupid I know. This is also what makes me, me. And so changing the way the "react" is unwinding 50+ years of habit.

I also know that relapses are possible. I have a story from my psychologist about a sheep in a paddock going from one of the yard to the other each evening. It does not mean a reset, but to keep trying. And one day we will get there...

Re: Can Love Your Family,But Don’t Have to like them as People

sbella02 — Sun, 20 Oct 2024 15:25:22 GMT

Hello ABC01, wishing you a warm welcome you back to the forums.

I'd like to weigh in on this topic, because one thing you said really spoke to me - the idea of unconditional love.

I think the idea of unconditional love is interesting, because it implies that you have an obligation to love somebody regardless of how they treat you, which I don't think is, or should be, the case. Healthy love has conditions. It must, otherwise we lose the ability to love ourselves in the pursuit of "love" from somebody else.

The reality is that some people just don't treat others very well. Whether it's from a family member, a friend, a partner, whomever, we must acknowledge continual and/or deliberate disrespect where it occurs, and take into consideration what behaviour we will and will not accept from somebody who is meant to love us.

Albeit, it can be very difficult to just "end" a relationship with somebody like this, particularly if they're family, but it's up to us to consider the consequences of keeping them in our life with losing them. Depending on the kind of behaviour, it can be as simple as having a conversation to bring attention to it, or as complex as cutting someone out of your life without discussion. Again, this is highly context-dependent.

Make sure you're being kind to and patient with yourself at the moment. Give yourself all the love you need. What brings you joy, do you have any hobbies or passion projects? Working on something like that can help to ground you if you're feeling distressed.

I hope this helps a little, feel free to keep chatting with us some more, we're here as you know.

Take care, SB

Re: Can Love Your Family,But Don’t Have to like them as People

ABC01 — Mon, 21 Oct 2024 11:47:39 GMT

Dear smallwolf,

That sheep story is interesting. I see hope in that message. Side Note: I also like sheep,so that maybe a good one to recall if needed.

I don’t think it is stupid about how you react to complaints or feel responsible if things don’t work out. I know quite alot of people who have told me that. At least 3 or 4. It is generally related to how you have been treated as a child/adolescent and generally by their families. Almost like an automatic response. Like we don’t deserve nice things to be said about us. And shoulda,coulda,woulda’s may have stopped the situation turning out like that if only….

I hate being touched. I was told by someone I flinch if they were to try to hug me. I didn’t get family displays of affection, so it was an automatic response for me. I didn’t even know I did it. Now I have learned how to control that. Don’t get me wrong,it isn’t a free for all being touched,but I have learned that not all touch is dangerous.

Things do take time to change and grow. Sometimes though, I wish they’d hurry up. But sometimes I am not the one who has to grow and change. And sometimes pigs fly too.🐷

ABC01

Re: Can Love Your Family,But Don’t Have to like them as People

ABC01 — Mon, 21 Oct 2024 11:55:27 GMT

Dear sbella02,

Your view point on unconditional love was interesting.Do you believe it doesn’t exist?

What about with a pet who you see as family? Something very innocent and unblemished by the human psychie.

I completely understand that you should look after yourself,but family is so complicated.

But you have answered what I asked,so thank you.

ABC01

Re: Can Love Your Family,But Don’t Have to like them as People

smallwolf — Tue, 22 Oct 2024 11:24:41 GMT

Here is the story about the sheep ...

A farmer owned a sheep and in the morning, the farmer would let the sheep into the paddock to nibble at the grass. By the end of each day the sheep would be at the other end of the paddock. When the farmed called the sheep back it would run back a smooth winding path that it had created over time.

One day, the sheep thought to itself... if I could go in a straight line I would get to the other end much faster. And so, the sheep tried. However there were a few problems - the ground was uneven, there were sharp stones and stick in the way and these were hidden by the longer grass. While it took less time, the sheep felt sorry about the damage sustained.

The next day, the sheep reverted to the older and winding path. While smoother, it took longer than liked. But the smoother path was more comfortable.

On the 3rd day, the sheep acknowledged the direct route was much quicker and despite the "pain" went in a straight line back to the farmer at the end of the day. In the process, some of the rocks and sticks would be kicked away from the path.

This flip-flopping between the new path and the old path happened for a number of days. And each time the older path would become a little more overgrown and little rocks and sticks would get in the way. At the same time, a new path was becoming smoother - running from one end to the other would kick rocks off the path and grass would become flatter and disappear in parts. Sometimes the sheep would use the old path 2 or 3 days straight, and other times would use the new(er) path for a number of days straight.

One day, while running from one end of the paddock to the other at the end of the day and using the old path, the sheep noticed or felt this path was no longer the same. It was just as hard if not harder than the more direct route and resolved to new the new path the next day...

From the next day, the sheep went via the direct route to the gate to meet the farmer. As time passed, the older path became overgrown and looked the same as the rest of the paddock. The new path on the other hand became smooth (as the older path once was)... the sheep had made a new path to use.

Re: Can Love Your Family,But Don’t Have to like them as People

ABC01 — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 09:05:02 GMT

Dear smallwolf,

Thank you for sharing the sheeps whole story.

I understand it,but also don’t.

Is it,that is was uncomfortable to make the new path in the beginning,running back to the farmer with sharp things on the path,but soon the path became smooth and the old path became part of the landscape because it was no longer used.

Was it meant to imply that new paths maybe hard and uncomfortable at first, but once we do them for a spell,they become easy. And the sometimes destructive paths can be left behind and overgrown by disuse?

ABC01

Re: Can Love Your Family,But Don’t Have to like them as People

smallwolf — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 11:44:49 GMT

one way of looking at the story is that it is about changing the way we can think about things (or handle situations) and change the pathways in our brains.

part of the reason I was told this story was that I was (am?) a black and white thinker. I am getting better at it. And when something went wrong, with a black and white thinker's mind, felt that I reset and was not getting better and never would.

so with this story ... relapses occur and that's ok. And it is not the end of the world. And as you said, making changes are hard and uncomfortable. But over time, it can get easier. The old path is the how we used to do things.

for example, I was a not assertive person and just accept what someone said to me. So practicing being assertive initially is hard, as we (read I) are not used to it. At this point, I can keep trying to give up. Giving up is like (?) going back to the old path. It can happen. Then we try and be assertive again.

Hope that makes sense.

Re: Can Love Your Family,But Don’t Have to like them as People

ABC01 — Thu, 24 Oct 2024 00:57:09 GMT

Dear smallwolf,

That makes perfect sense.

I too used to be a black and white thinker. It is a family trait passed on through upbringing.

I have since learned there are all shades of gray and that the picture is much bigger if I ask others opinions on the same topic. Even if I don’t agree with their opinion.

As a black or white thinker if things went wrong, I would blame myself and believe I was a lesser adult. I was stupid. I now know that isn’t the case. I too have learned boundaries and how to be assertive, in the right circumstances and with certain people.

Relapses occur and that is okay. Thank you for that today. Just that sentence. I needed that so much.

I hope you have a good day smallwolf.

ABC01

Re: Can Love Your Family,But Don’t Have to like them as People

smallwolf — Fri, 25 Oct 2024 12:39:46 GMT

I hope your weekend is OK or even GOOD!

In the time I have been seeing my psychs (yes!) one thing I have learnt is that we each have to work out our own ways of coping. And perhaps the story I told you might be ok for you also.

Re: Can Love Your Family,But Don’t Have to like them as People

sbella02 — Sun, 27 Oct 2024 07:40:52 GMT

ABC01,

I don't think I'd say it doesn't exist, but with humans I think it's more complicated that being unconditional - we all have a "breaking point" of how much we will tolerate with regards to being treated badly by others. I think that love involves a conscious commitment, and sometimes we must break that commitment of "love" if there's a point or an event where we feel as if our unconditional love has been betrayed. I know many people who have stopped communicating with various family members because they've had enough of being treated badly, for instance.

I think that love for pets can absolutely be unconditional. I love my pets no matter what.

How are you feeling now?

Re: Can Love Your Family,But Don’t Have to like them as People

blondguy — Sun, 27 Oct 2024 11:19:13 GMT

Hello ABC01

Welcome to the forums and thankyou for being a part of the Beyond Blue family too!

I loved my dad as my father ( and may he rest in peace) yet I never really liked him as a person

A very good thread topic ABC01.....well done!

my kindest

Paul

Re: Can Love Your Family,But Don’t Have to like them as People

ABC01 — Mon, 28 Oct 2024 11:26:41 GMT

Dear sbella02,

I think I am preparing to leave my family. As in home. Mentally I always thought I’d stay with them at home and look after them as they are getting older. They have never forced me to leave. But now, I think I need to find a way out. As an adult I need the space to be myself and also live life my own way. I also think our ethics, values and beliefs are very different. I may not need anymore stress from that then I do get. And if I don’t start making moves now,when they do pass,what am I going to do?

But I am scared to do it. Firstly, I need to figure out how I am even going to do it logistically. Unfortunately money doesn’t grow on trees and the housing crisis is something to consider. Someone close to me can’t find a rental and they are working full time and earning solid money. And feeling safe on my own is another factor.

Small steps to start off with. And see where they even take me. I may not be able to leave.

My family aren’t bad people,but purpose and direction, I need it. And some of the behaviours I put up with,maybe I shouldn’t have too.

So…. i guess mentally preparing is my first step.

Thank you for asking,

ABC01

Re: Can Love Your Family,But Don’t Have to like them as People

smallwolf — Tue, 29 Oct 2024 11:30:00 GMT

Heh there ABC01...

In your last post you mentioned having different ethics, values, beliefs etc. This is something I can relate to. While I can accept (?) the way I was raised, it is something I promised (to myself at least) that I would not do the same. In effect, I did an about 180 degree turn. In that respect I hope I am more open, welcoming etc. To be on the other side, or the receiving really sucks. What I am trying to say is that it's OK and can be good to different. For myself the downside was that I felt I could not truly be myself. I am learning (still) that only when I can be that person that I have a chance of happiness.

Be you. I'm listening...