topic Narcissistic Dad...and his blame game. in Relationship and family issues

Narcissistic Dad...and his blame game.

Aria87 — Fri, 25 Aug 2023 21:01:24 GMT

Over the past few years, my dads behavior has taken a toll on my marriage.

My father treats my husband like he does everyone and anyone. Hes rude, he talks about people, and blames everyone else for any action. My husband had enough, and cut himself off from my parents as he was over my dad calling him only when he wanted something, then when my husband would reach out back he would ignore him or reject his calls if it wasnt a convenient time for him then my dad would stay all quiet acting like he did nothing wrong. Months have gone by, and my dad hasnt asked where my husband has been, because he knows he has stuffed up again. But my dad, will blame my husband and also backstab him to my brothers. My mum would ask, as she is the fixer for all these situations however my husband wont back down now until my dad contacts him back and my husband wants to tell my dad how he upset him so he can learn to stop doing it to him. My husband will every now and then comment about my parents, and i believe this is unfair as i have accepted what they have done, i dont ask my husband to attend things or anything. my dad would call, and call when he wants something, then i would call back when it works for me and he would drop comments like how hes disappointed i haven't gone over sooner, blah blah blah. as strong as i try to be with this, it manages to get under my skin.

and, whats worse, i work with my family, so i cant always stay away from my father, unfortunately.

im anxious that when it comes down to it and i tell my dad what he did, he will just blow up and blame me and my husband over and over again causing MORE troubles. its like he picks a fight with a new person every month.

Re: Narcissistic Dad...and his blame game.

white knight — Tue, 29 Aug 2023 06:19:48 GMT

Hi, welcome

I have a fair bit to say about your situation. My mother is very similar to your father. She even ruined my 1st marriage, she's left a train wreck everywhere throughout her life. I actually dont blame your husband at all even when he mentions your parents to you in a not so good way because everyone likes to be accepted by their inlaws, when they arent they feel rejected and disappointed.

Narcissism is a word used a lot nowadays and its accepted in such cases now. Narcissistic triangulation (google that one) is a process they use to include others in their arguments to ultimately win over their foe- in fact last xmas I had an argument with my sister and that resulted in her convincing her adult daughters to estrange me, pretty hurtful stuff the workers of triangulation. I rang my sister and asked her if she told her daughters not to get involved in the argument between me and her and she actually said she encouraged them to get involved. Horrible work. It is a very effective strategy, one that is learned in early adult times and they dont think its the wrong thing to do. So thats the 1st thing, your father doesnt realise its wrong and your mum is oblivious to the level of hurt it causes. She has a marriage to save so she is in a tight spot.

Clearly your biggest problem is your father not acknowledging he has a possible illness that should be treated. He'll likely (like my 92yo mother) go through his life making enemies and blaming others. You cant make him get treatment if it is warranted. So what is the best thing for you to do?

I suggest you continue with your own relationship with your father the best you can do. If they raise the topic of your husband then your dad must sort it out with your hubby directly, try to draw the line there, this is about him and your hubby not anyone else. Corral that topic!. If your hubby doesnt want to associate with your dad it is very understandable and concentrate on your happiness and future as a couple.

There is a chance time could find they sort it our and tolerate each other... a slight chance. But controlling, argumentative people with triangulation techniques make mountains out of molehills and stability is a casualty. No one is responsible for reckless behaviour using narcissistic methods than the instigator. I sympathise with your husband.

TonyWK

Re: Narcissistic Dad...and his blame game.

Aria87 — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 00:39:18 GMT

Hi Tony,

Thank you so much for your reply!
I too feel so sorry for my husband, and once i dealt with this situation and my father understood HE was the reason, i apologized to my husband that i took too long to deal with the problem.

I have grown up with my father, so i was used to him and just ignored it and moved on. But like you say, noone has to tolerate that. My husband apprecaited i told my father the issue, and loved that i apologised that i took too long to deal with it. My mother FINALLY told my father that now that she knows the truth about the situation, he is at fault. My Father knows its on him to fix, and its been now 2 days since i told my father HE needs to call my husband to apologise, and my father hasnt. I, feel fine, and will continue to see my family without my husband for special events, my father can deal with the guilt until he grows up a little. Hes almost 70.

I feel for you, for your neices getting involved.

If i had my siblings or mother on my case upsetting me over my husbands actions i would be pretty upset too.

Re: Narcissistic Dad...and his blame game.

white knight — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 01:13:26 GMT

Great. I don't expect your dad will apologize as the level of stubbornness increases with some as we get older.

I'm pleased your husband appreciates your apology for the delay, as children of parents we take times to acknowledge the seriousness of our parents flaws.

Time might be a good healer and wisdom to appreciate its effects us in you. Well done.

TonyWK

Re: Narcissistic Dad...and his blame game.

Aria87 — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 04:07:12 GMT

Yeah, i dont see it either, anytime soon

However my father doesnt understand the personality of my husband, once hes done hes done. So my fathers actions stop both him and my mother being involved more in our lives... so its their loss at the end of the day.

I agree, in hopes we dont continue that behavior.

Have a nice day!

Re: Narcissistic Dad...and his blame game.

white knight — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 05:33:20 GMT

Thats the problem with a strong personality (your dad) and a softer one (your mum).

Whenever I had an argument with my mother I also lost my dad. Once 30 years ago I yelled at dad "If I dont get along with my mother, why do I also lose my father" He had no reason but I guessed accurately that my mother would have made life hell for him.

So, you can invite your mother over for a cuppa etc occasionally without your father and allow her and your hubby to continue their relationship, which should be perfectly fine. If your father is angered by it then he is being too controlling.

TonyWK

Re: Narcissistic Dad...and his blame game.

Aria87 — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 02:33:25 GMT

Hi Tony,

Thats sad, i feel for you buddy.

My fathers update yesterday, when he asked if my husband was coming to my mothers bday dinner, i firmly said no, have you called him? and he said no,i called you the other day and you didnt put him on the phone.

which is a flat out lie.. i had facetimed my dad for my son to see his grandparents, and my husband was still at work.

My husband, wont communicate with my mother if he isnt okay with my dad.. and i find that fair. he feels if he does that, its only stirring my father (my husband is respectful this way) so until my father grows up, it is what it is!

Its sad to see my father wont have the courage to admit his error and apologize, and still use everyone else to get him out of trouble. noone he has lost most of his friends in his life. he "looks" and "speaks" tough, but deep down hes a little kitty cat.

Re: Narcissistic Dad...and his blame game.

white knight — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 06:33:59 GMT

It's right they have to grow up. Watching many youtubes recently it's a blanket description that narcissists fail to mature from the school yard defence/aggressive mentality. Then with no insight or lessons learned from others by observation, they cause problems with most people they communicate with.

They also drag others into their disputes. If ever you are then "it's between you and him dad, i cant force you to apologize.".. over and over.

Dealing with a narcissist takes a firm view, not directly blaming but firmly indicating he should take responsibility.

My mother was cowardly, always getting others to patch things up.

TonyWK

Re: Narcissistic Dad...and his blame game.

Aria87 — Tue, 24 Oct 2023 19:27:16 GMT

Hello!

Yep, i can understand and relate 100000%... how sad it would be to wake up this way.

My father, since has spoken to my husband, and they did sort things out.

My father though, just finds something to always fight with someone about. Now its my turn, he was upset i was busy on the weekend and how i told him i couldnt meet with him at the particular time he called me. He then gave me the silent treatment for 4 days, in which i walked into him talking about it to my older brother, busted him. I confronted him asking if he was talking about me, and he lied and said no why would i talk about you. Clearly busted, he then continued to fight with me, and make up dramatic old issues to get out of it. I will fight till the end when he calls me a liar, which continued and continued.. my middle brother, who is well aware of the rubbish our father lies about, announces our dad should be ashamed of himself as im his daughter and shouldnt be talking to me like he was, regardless of who was upset about anything. That is what silenced my father.

I tell my dad, im busy sorry i have this to do.. he hears i dont want to spend time with you.

He calls, when we are going to bed, he thinks were ignoring him on purpose.

no matter what is done for him.. its never enough. same cycle, one sibling to another.

He calls over the weekend, with attitude, so i state he is on speaker phone and my child can hear, he still continues stating fine ill see the kid once a month... when i was busy and had plans. which escalated him lying t my brothers saying how rude i am, how he wont be afraid of my husband, he shouldnt have to come over invited he should come whenever he wants, blah blah blahhhhhhhhh.. and when its a lie, i will defend myself till the cows come home.

My father, when there is no issues.. creates one.

And this is because in HIS past, he has caused issues and he throws the fire on everyone else.

My father too gets my mother always to patch things up, its sad.. then he will continue like nothing happened if he knows the people who was upset with arent upset like he was.

I firmly told my father, what he was saying i did not say, and also told him what he is making up to argue about are past issues. Once its done with me.. he will then continue on to someone else.

I need to learn not to carry on the sadness, because it bothers me SO much when he does this.

Re: Narcissistic Dad...and his blame game.

white knight — Wed, 25 Oct 2023 00:20:58 GMT

https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/staying-well/wit-the-only-answer-for-torment/td-p/71440

TonyWK

Re: Narcissistic Dad...and his blame game.

Aria87 — Tue, 24 Oct 2023 23:47:16 GMT

I have felt that all my life... after this mornings hash out, he still thinks he is correct. He keeps saying im the liar,and i shouldnt talk to him the way i did.. when i replied, as a father you shouldnt of ignored me for 3 days.

He still manages to convince my brothers that he is right, and that i shouldnt be mad if he comes to my house unannounced (my husband hates that!) and tells me my husband needs to get over it for him to do what he wants. I disgree 100%. I have always said, i didnt marry you, i married my husband. he hates to hear that.

The comments of this weeks victim, i have said to my mother as she is understanding and too knows how my father is. I told my brothers flat out, if you want to listen to him, do it, hes a liar. And they just laughed.

Its like they are afraid to admit it.

I will definitely google and read your request!

Re: Narcissistic Dad...and his blame game.

white knight — Wed, 25 Oct 2023 03:19:30 GMT

Families can have habits that remain though they are bad ones. This is because they dont think they are bad even when pointed out to them.

A good example of that is your dad convincing your brothers that he is correct is a form of engaging support from his sons as a means to make his position stronger. That isnt very mature nor is it productive when it comes to being the head of a family that is suppose to lead by example. Again this is an example of how his habits have formed. The real challenge you face is growing so that you take over as the one that leads by example. How difficult is that?

It's really hard but I'll try to give some clarity-

Your dad labels you are a "liar". Leading by example is to not label him as one rather reply like "I dont agree with your account of that incident". It stops the- you are - no your are.. type arguments.
Your dad seek the support of your brothers to ridicule you. Better not to reply to your brothers as " if you want to listen to him, do it, hes a liar". Better to say "if you choose to believe him thats your choice".
Turning up unannounced when you both have informed people of your desire they contact is mildly violating your rules. It isnt uncommon for family and friends to "drop in" so this is a grey area even though its your rule. So, in light of the more serious issues here with your dad, better to be a little more flexible on this topic and at least be thankful your dad feels comfortable enough to drop in. Talk to hubby and see if he can at least allow this imo
"as a father you shouldnt of ignored me for 3 days.". This is another unacceptable aspect of his behaviour but I dont think he'll change. I have a relative that doesn this and I palm it off as "Joe has the ..its so I'm staying away for a few days". Better that than trying to change an oak tree for a pine.

I think you are brave to stand up for what you believe in. Sometimes however it is preferable if you want family to remain in your life that "absence makes the heart grow fonder" and as you said "I married my husband" and thats where your life as a whole, is, to focus on what goes on under your roof and allow your dad to drift enough away that his habits and techniques dont bother you near as much.

Make sense?

TonyWK

Re: Narcissistic Dad...and his blame game.

Aria87 — Thu, 26 Oct 2023 00:02:10 GMT

Hi Tony,

You are so right.

Bad habits, that i never want to teach my child. I agree!

I did when confronting my father tell him, i would NEVER ignore my child for 3 minutes let alone 3 whole days, its not right. And i hope he heard me, for his own sake. And even if he didnt, my brothers understand because our dad does it to them also. More so the middle son, and i get that treatment.. as we dont allow people to say we did one thing when its a lie, whereas the eldest is the people pleaser and wants to respect the fact he is our dad.

I most definitely will be taking on the - i dont agree, if you want to believe him thats your choice.

However the fact my father cant 'drop in' is because he has such a clashing with my husband over his lies, and my husband saw right through it. This was too a trigger for my father, that fact he didnt win the situation and had to apologize.

I had a chat with my mum today, to see what she was told, and he told her nothing.. because he knows very well that my mother would not be happy with what he has done, again and again and again.

As i dealt with this on my own, i felt i didnt need to express to my husband what happened.. as my husband is very protective of me. My dad gets very nervous after these events, as he isnt sure how people will treat him when they find out what hes done and said. So next event will be interesting to see how awkward my dad is around my husband, yet again.

I dont know how my mother has dealt with him over all these years.

She used to defend him.. and now when we chat to her as support, she understands 100%.

My dad can drift his drama into someone elses home, trying to be funny! 🙂

Hope youre having a nice day too!

Re: Narcissistic Dad...and his blame game.

white knight — Thu, 26 Oct 2023 02:25:18 GMT

It's tough on you, being the parent of a parent.

Apart from full disconnect with a relative, we have to make effort to maintain some form of stability if possible. To do that apart from the more mature and subtle communications and wit as posted with that link I posted, we can when we feel like it, inject some encouragement. Eg

My mother I havent seen for 12 years (she's 92yo now) was the most hellish tyrant, narcissistic person ever. However, she had a nurturing side when I was a boy. This made it harder to break all contact because it is a side that I treasured and still do today. I've always said to others that enquired "Her good points are wonderful...her bad points I cannot live with".

So several times when we were in contact I tried to maintain peace and when the opportunity came I would say to her "you were a good nurturing mother when I was young". Thats because it was the truth. It made her feel valued and a good mother but frankly that encouragement didnt work to the extent of me being able to make inroads into her then behaviour in other ways like her cruel ways.

The effect of being truthful can sway someone to feel appreciated and sometimes that can repair some damage. Eg to your father if you said "dad, you provided for your family and worked hard, no one can take that away from you". Then followed up with "I'm concerned that not so truthful statements are made that hurt us, I'm hoping that can stop".

This technique is called "greasing the cherry tree" I dont know where it came from lol (and it isnt on google) but it means priming your communication in a - praise before education process. It can have limited success and can prevent an explosive argument to a more calm exchange.

TonyWK

Re: Narcissistic Dad...and his blame game.

Aria87 — Tue, 31 Oct 2023 19:17:29 GMT

I must admit, i am very emotional... naturally. so when talking or if i am upset about something i can easily cry and raise my voice. But i have found when the excuse of ïm your father dont yell at me"is raised.. and i stand my ground stating "when i am in the right, and someone is telling otherwise i will fight till the end" seems to put realization into everyones heads. I have started to respond to my siblings when they involve themselves in what i do with"if you choose to believe him, thats on you" but when pushed again out of anger i repsond with "dont belive dad" and i storm off. I would NEVER push my brother to do things, never. Yet they involve themselves, more so my middle brother. I have come to terms that the way i felt as a little girl, too scared to ask a simple question because my dad would always be so angry and controlling is where i still felt as an adult, and i need to work on that feeling that im no longer that kid, and he can no longer make me feel this way.

Although we are moving on from our fight, slowly... he still manages to find ways to try make me feel guilty.

I just have to keep reminding myself he has the problem, not me. ANd just because he expects everyone to run around and be around him 24/7 i dont have to. Might buy him a cherry tree for Christmas? 🙂

Re: Narcissistic Dad...and his blame game.

white knight — Wed, 01 Nov 2023 05:46:12 GMT

LOL.

Some of the comments I've develped or picked up over the years to tackle these sorts of problems-

responding to someone interfering in my relationship with another person "that has a lot to do with me, a little bit to do with my father and nothing to do with you"
"So why are you commenting"? They then give a reason so you say again "so why are you commenting again"?
Replying to someone nasty "if I wanted my worst enemy here I'd have invited you"
Responding to someone gaslighting me eg "he still manages to find ways to try make me feel guilty"... "gaslighting originated from the movie gaslight of 1944, have you watched that movie to learn how to do it"?

Some of the above are sarcasm, I learned a long time ago that if you are not equalising the battle ground, like a tyrant of one country... you will be run over. Then when you are defending yourself others on the outside will say "it takes two to fight".. which is rubbish if you are defending. Simple rule- they should mind their business.

As a rule I often expect loved ones to ring and say "how is it even possible that you are so nasty to your mother"? My reply is "why are you interfering, my relationship with my mother is between me and her... it there anything else I can do for you"?

Yes, stand you ground and apologize later if wrong and you'll be protecting yourself.

What do you think?

TonyWK

Re: Narcissistic Dad...and his blame game.

Aria87 — Tue, 07 Nov 2023 23:19:02 GMT

I totally love the comments, however im growing as a person to answer in a calmly manner. i like people understanding what they are doing wrong, and admitting it to then leave me alone. LOL!

my middle brother, the most trouble maker had found himself in a pickle with his own wife.. as he seems to be doing my fathers ways with his own home, in which his wife does not appreciate. maybe now my brother will realize how right i actually was. .. not was.. AM right!

Re: Narcissistic Dad...and his blame game.

white knight — Wed, 08 Nov 2023 00:12:28 GMT

Im glad you found benefit from our chat. Feel free to post again here or in a new topic.

Study Borderline Personality Disorder. It might help.

All the best

TonyWK

Re: Narcissistic Dad...and his blame game.

Aria87 — Wed, 08 Nov 2023 00:42:58 GMT

You have helped immensely! i cant thank you enough!