topic Venting about the same sex marriage debate in Relationship and family issues

Venting about the same sex marriage debate

Sad_Puppy_Dog — Mon, 18 Sep 2017 10:20:23 GMT

This might be a left field subject and tricky to articulate but I will try. Also, I just don't know where else I can say this and predict that I can do so, maybe without a wave of judgment.

I'm straight and believe in same sex marriage. I'll vote yes when the chance comes. I have a few casual friends and acquaintances who are gay or bi. I have no issue with homosexuality.

But the inundation of content (Usually grandiose Facebook posts) by pro SSM people seemingly EVERYWHERE is just starting to get on my nerves. Even though I have consciously cut WAY down on FB, (Largely due to prevalent toxic negativity) I still see these posts all the time and in the media ALL THE TIME. I understand the value of it and I support it.

It make me feel a little bad to be negative about it. It is an issue I believe in but I'm not as passionate about it as others. I feel kind of "resentful" for lack of a better word. I'm going through the hardest Hell of my depression/anxiety. I've had 2 traumatic breakups, the 2nd I'm still not over 4-5 months since it finished (Complicated) and I've had to manage the concept of on/off suicidal thoughts in recent times too. I guess I don't have any room in my head to care about this cause even though I support it, I am kind and very, very empathetic.

Since breakup no. 1, I have been consciously been working very hard at trying to grow, trying to be MORE kind, empathetic, understanding and even forgiving, even of those who are bigoted, cruel and mean spirited. Easier said than done but really working towards a more peaceful and less reactive self. Perhaps this is my classic overthinking but I wonder if I'm resentful because I'm not getting attention. I want MY problems solved! So am I self absorbed? Is it envy for all the likes (Ugh) my Facebook friends are getting? Do I see it as narcissism? I'd normally be one to cringe when someone uses the term 'virtue signaling', but I kind of find myself silently accusing some straight friends of it, that they are maybe seeking adulation by being crusaders for SSM. Maybe they actually DO genuinely care. That makes me feel dirty, going along with the "virtue signalling" concept.

I don't know when the votes are all tallied up. I hope it goes through but there's just only so many cases of people droning on and on about it so aggressively and ubiquitously and declaring "Unfriend me if you vote No" before I think, "Enough already, we get the point!"

And now I feel guilty for complaining about it.

Venting about the same sex marriage debate

justinok — Mon, 18 Sep 2017 23:41:33 GMT

Hey mate, I don't want to jump down your throat cos it sounds like you're feeling bombarded enough already.

But maybe I can give you something a bit from the other side of the fence.

I'm a gay HIV positive man with no contact from my family anymore because of both of those things. This whole debate is doing MY head in.

I'm avoiding Facebook and news because of it. On the off chance I do weaken and read, I see things like:

- Someone paying a skywriter in Sydney to fly a plane over the city with VOTE NO spelled out in huge letters

- Sneering government ministers for whom this has zero effect on their lives calling people like me 'delicate little flowers' for getting upset

- 'Stop the fags' posters going up around Melbourne, and hate commentary comparing gay men to paedophiles

On a personal level, I find myself looking at everyone I see on the street and thinking, this person has a right to vote on my life.

I wish I had the luxury to be tired of this debate. Straight people don't have a horse in this race, so they can go hard out supporting equal marriage knowing that if the heat gets too much in the kitchen, they can just change the channel and go back to talking about Game of Thrones because the result will NOT affect their lives.

I'm so angry that my life is a political football and I don't know personally if I can cope with three more months of this crap.

I tell myself that I have coped with far worse for the last couple of decades in my life, but some days this just feels like too much.

So I'm sorry that things are really rough for you right now. If it helps, my feelings about this whole thing are complicated too, because I look at friends I know in relationships of 20+ years fighting for the right to be married, and while I want happiness for them I also feel resentful as I feel like no-one is ever going to want me. Add that to the NO commentary in society, and I feel like the world is telling me I don't deserve happiness anyway.

Venting about the same sex marriage debate

Sad_Puppy_Dog — Tue, 19 Sep 2017 00:37:16 GMT

Oh look I can imagine how punishing it can be with homophobes and bigots refusing to see you and your wish for equality as valid. I agree. Maybe that is why the YES campaigners have been at such a high level of relentlessness as they have been recently, to combat it. It reminds me of the Looney Tunes cartoon between Marvin The Martian and...Wiley Coyote (?) where one pulls out a weapon then in reaction the other pulls out a bigger weapon, then turn for turn the weapons get bigger and escalate. It's to drown out the opposition, to No campaigners.

I don't know, sometimes it just feels a bit redundant as well. How much chance is there left of changing anyone's mind from No to Yes? Most people would likely have their stance made by now wouldn't they?

I don't want to undermine the issue or the cause. Maybe I just can't relate because it doesn't affect me directly, even despite my empathy. I absolutely want equality, I do want equal rights for all. I do feel that it is important, but guess sometimes I might not view it with the same level of importance as some other issues, not to say that you can't crusade for MULTIPLE causes at the same time.

Maybe I feel that some of the crusading (From straight friends) feels a bit insincere or false. Maybe I am just hypersensitive and reacting more about this than I should because I'm just, irritable.

Does any of this make sense? I just wanted to write it out somewhere to get it off my chest, whether it was absurd or not.

I feel bad for criticising people that are doing the right thing and are actually "passionate" about something instead of trivial, superficial nonsense. On the other hand, there is this part of me that has this uneasy feeling that some people's motives are a bit off and more than anything else, this feeling of repetition with no new information or insights to give.

I received my voting paperwork this morning and I'll tick yes for same sex marriage. I guess, you know how it is when sometimes you hear people (gay or straight) that blurt out in frustration "I just wish LGBTQI lifestyles were accepted as normal as heterosexuality so that we don't need to keep talking about it and needing to have parades and pride, etc! (Just to get representation) I can't wait for that day!"? I guess it's kind of like that. It's an impatient feeling to wish we were just at that point, which I'm sure everyone else wants to be.

I've never felt frustrated about this before and I don't like to be. It has just randomly boiled up.

Venting about the same sex marriage debate

justinok — Tue, 19 Sep 2017 01:20:02 GMT

Hey mate, knowing that people are voting YES and taking the time out to do it makes me feel better, even though I have very mixed feelings about having to say 'thank you' for doing it. But thank you anyway.

I think I share the same frustration as you in a way. It is very easy for some people to hop on the bandwagon and crusade for their own personal reasons, which is what I was getting at when I said that those people can just step away from the fight at any time when they get bored with it, but still reap the benefits of being seen as a 'progressive' citizen.

That's one of the things that angers me about having this vote in the first place. All of this kind of crap has been enabled. There are genuine issues that affect each and every Australian that we DON'T all get to vote on, that politicians wouldn't dream of letting us vote on. The only reason this is happening is because certain NO politicians don't want it to happen. Firstly it was so they could kick the can down the road and avoid debating it, now I feel it's just mean-spirited: 'ok you're going to get your marriage but we want to make damn sure you know at every junction just how much we think you're not normal and we don't accept you'. As if we need reminding!!!

I guess what does concern me at this point is that people who are feeling like you who will end up voting NO just out of spite, or to be contrary. I think the politicians who forced this postal vote know all this, and wanted to create as much chaos as possible because they know it will favour NO. And that makes me so angry.

Venting about the same sex marriage debate

Guest_128 — Tue, 19 Sep 2017 02:19:25 GMT

My opinion,

There has been far to much attention and hard working money spent on something that the majority really couldn't give a frying fish about.

There are sooooooo many people dying suffering with abuse ,physical pain, mental health people that go everyday, a mother dies at 40 leaving 3 young children.

So no I don't feel Sorry,for the way I feel,I feel for the ones that should be getting help.

Dory

Venting about the same sex marriage debate

Guest_128 — Tue, 19 Sep 2017 02:21:08 GMT

Its simple don't listen or go on social media because all it is doing is feeding the Evil.

Venting about the same sex marriage debate

justinok — Tue, 19 Sep 2017 02:59:10 GMT

Easy to say if the issue doesn't affect you.

I'm pretty tired of this issue either being framed as so important that it must be voted on by each and every Australian, or so insignificant that we shouldn't be spending any time on it.

Well excuse me, but my life and my relationships DO matter, particularly if I'm being shut out of a hospital because I can't name a partner as next of kin. I sure as hell don't want my family anywhere near me in the event something happens to me.

Venting about the same sex marriage debate

Guest_128 — Tue, 19 Sep 2017 03:10:18 GMT

I didn't say it doesn't effect me.

it is effecting everyone.

That is what the problem is!

I am not arguing I am Have my say.

Dory

Venting about the same sex marriage debate

Sad_Puppy_Dog — Tue, 19 Sep 2017 05:29:30 GMT

You raise some good points Justin.

This would have been SO much easier if the government just changed the legislation and that would be it. But like Dory has said, money has been wasted for a decision that should simply be made and as you have pointed out, the chaos has risen where the No people are made more able to voice their opposition and spread their bigotry and treat LGBTQI people as 2nd class citizens. It's very unfortunate, even if SSM is clear to go in the end. I can imagine your anger.

Highlighting a cause I am passionate about, I'm trying to view your position through the prism of the anger I feel at the stigma, apathy, lack of action and lack of empathy regarding mental illness in the community, which being here I'm sure you know quite well and have feelings about. Because that's just another example of a group of people who are marginalised, abused, mocked and forced into silence through fear of judgment WHEN INSTEAD being open and talkative about this SHOULD be happening. And depression is common in the LGBTQI community because of those above reasons. That's a Hell of a double punch.

Imagine how much mental health could grow in people if their LGBTQI lifestyle was accepted as normal and such hardcore persecution didn't exist. If only. So, one could view a green light on SSM as a small victory that means just a bit, especially if you don't have any great belief in the concept of marriage. Others could see it as just one more step forward towards normalcy and acceptance, because the partners are afforded those same rights legally and as next of kin. One more step forward, in whatever form = greater normalcy = an element of less stress, turmoil, shame, fear and silence = theoretically one less reason for mental illness to have power over people.

So in the bigger picture maybe I can see the importance of the campaign. But I'm still irritated at how much it is dominating everything in the media, the "progressives" that want to remind the world just how progressive they are. It's masturbation, it's narcissism (I LOATHE narcissism, which social media truly enables). Cynical yes but not inaccurate. I've seen 3 posts today of people taking photos of their Yes box ticked. Great, you're doing the right thing, good, but you don't all have to tell the world about it. It feels kind of crass, a hijacking or piggy backing of a cause to show us how awesome you are. Just do it, no need to tell us all. THAT I suppose is my real gripe when you get down to it.

Venting about the same sex marriage debate

Quercus — Wed, 20 Sep 2017 06:17:42 GMT

Hi Sad Puppy Dog,

I think it's a good idea that you've created a thread on this topic because all the debate and vitriol being thrown about is enough to upset anybody. I've long given up social media and to be honest could not tell you the last time I watched the news or read a paper. And it's quite possibly the best thing I've done for myself in ages.

This vote and the smear campaigns on both sides are disgusting. And don't get me started on the vote itself. All it will achieve is upsetting people. If the vote is no people get hurt. If the vote is yes it causes fear to the religious community. And what if it is too close to call? Another smear campaign? Another vote? More hatred and fear and division and resentment and pain for everyone involved?

I keep wondering if all of this could have been avoided just by choosing a word other than 'marriage'. Bypass the religious debate all together and give same sex couples the right to be recognised as a family. Forgive me if I've missed the point completely but a lot of the people I know who are voting no are doing so because of their faith and nothing more.

Thank you for creating a place where people can discuss this.

Venting about the same sex marriage debate

Lonelydan — Thu, 21 Sep 2017 03:10:59 GMT

Hi mate, just wanted to say thanks for speaking up I know how hard it is, and for you even harder. There all coming out of the woodworks aren’t they??? You’re right the politicians have turned this into a smorgasbord for idiots to feed off. Like you it makes me so angry that my rights are dependent on the permission of another. When do I get to decide if two absolute idiots can get Married produce children then divorce leaving behind a car crush of heartbreak. Dan..

Venting about the same sex marriage debate

Waterfalls — Thu, 21 Sep 2017 04:48:13 GMT

I support gay marriage. Sad Puppy Dog just seems to be pointing out a sad fact that even people that support it are getting overloaded with it. Me included. Its the fault of religious types etc and the government they don't just get this thing done.

again i support it. That's not the point, just personally i can't even maintain a relationship because of this depression, and whether I'm straight or not doesn't matter. It just serves as a constant reminder to what I lack - at least a relationship. Yes, perhaps this is my distorted way of thinking but that's just how some people think at least my reasoning for this to be low on my capacity to keep caring list

I don't even agree with having to vote. They should just do it. In my home country they were allowed to vote on brexit - look how that turned out.

Venting about the same sex marriage debate

Just Sara — Thu, 21 Sep 2017 04:57:49 GMT

I thought I might get in on issues you've raised SPD;

I'm not going to address Yes or No, but I will talk about the right to be heard and acknowledged.

Without societal dialog and rebellion, politicians will go where votes, popularity and money is. That's life! They're buck passers and private school hypocrites with little experience in real world hardship. In essence, they don't have the skills to deal with this by themselves.

Throughout history, speaking up has been fraught with danger when rebelling against inequality. Prior to women getting the vote, horrific stories of torture and large scale human rights abuses, littered the papers with 'Serve them right!'

Marriage equality is only 'one' of many plights the LGBTI community have had, and continue to deal with. So it's totally understandable our outrage is put forward with such gusto; moreso by some than others.

Fear of losing ground or power seems to be at the core of religious factions as again, history shows. Taking on the church will always cause uproar. They're running scared and putting up a good fight relying on 'one' phrase in the Bible eluding to how bad 'laying with another man' is, as the backbone of their hysteria.

Current technology has given [all] our voices an indispensable worldwide soapbox, and with that comes the good, bad and ugliness of free speech. Those with fairness, real world knowledge, discernment and intelligence will sort thru the crap.

I'm sorry you've been affected by this process of rebellion, it's worth noting that anxiety will cause people to react far more severely than otherwise. Maybe your mental health is the cause of your grievance and not what's being said. My opinion only, so please discuss if you want.

You seem in a bad place mentally/emotionally, so I urge you to join the mainstream forum sections as well as voicing your concerns here. I hope we can support you in your recovery.

Thanks for listening...

Kind thoughts...

Sez

Venting about the same sex marriage debate

Sad_Puppy_Dog — Thu, 21 Sep 2017 06:13:38 GMT

Hi Sez,

Maybe the depression/anxiety is a factor. Like I said, it has just kind of randomly boiled up and it happened to be the "right" thing to irk me at the right time. I'm honestly just trying to avoid it on social media. I don't have TV reception and don't read the newspaper so it really is only the internet where the subject will come up. I just have no need to keep exposing myself to the issue and I'm trying to limit my social media usage as it is. I voted, it's done.

I am in a bad place. I'm trying to do what I can on the boards to use this board as a way to help expunge the negativity, get advice, try to offer some, etc.

Venting about the same sex marriage debate

Just Sara — Thu, 21 Sep 2017 06:26:10 GMT

Well you've come to the right place. Do you have a thread you can call your own? If you don't, please create one ok. I'd be more than happy to engage in some uplifting banter or help with that horrible negativity we all feel now and then.

You've been honest and open with this thread, so congratulations. I love it when people share their thoughts, even if it's not popular. It's created great dialog between members and given an opportunity for an important discussion; I applaud you.

Warm thoughts;

Sez

Venting about the same sex marriage debate

Sad_Puppy_Dog — Sun, 24 Sep 2017 06:56:03 GMT

Hi Sez,

I've had a bot of a break the past couple of days but yes, I'm sure I have a thread or two of my own. It seems that you can be limited in how many you can create (?) but, I have them out there.

Venting about the same sex marriage debate

white knight — Sun, 24 Sep 2017 09:14:10 GMT

Hi justinok

Youve been around here for quite a while.

Im a hetrosexual married man, grown up kids, baby boomer.

For what its worth, I wish nothing more than to give you and the LGBTI community everything I currently have rights to.

Im 61 but at 17yo joined the RAAF as a common homophobic guy. At 21yo I joined the prison service and met many LBGTI inmates some with great advice on my on again off again relationship with my girlfriend. !

So my attitude changed and ever since Ive acknowledged the soft hearts that swell in that community. Being a sensitive poet I connect with minds of compassion and love.

Your post early on here on this thread struck a nerve and I felt for you.

Rest assured if the NO vote gets up it wont last for long.

Justin, go about your life seeking a happiness that no one can break rest assured there are people like me that see you no less a human than I am.

Take care you beautiful soul

Tony WK