topic Feeling alone in the relationship. in Relationship and family issues

Feeling alone in the relationship.

CalculatedRisk — Mon, 28 Mar 2016 11:16:51 GMT

Hello all, first post, long time lurker. Brief introduction - 8 years ago diagnosed with anxiety (and depression as a symptom of the anxiety). Went through therapy, all good now. Still on mild medication and regular visits with my GP, but for all intents and purposes my life is good - good job, steady income, education coming along. Personally I feel great. Issue I am feeling is with my wife. We have two lovely children, both work etc. However just over 3 years ago I found she was having an emotional affair with an old friend (inter state). Inappropriate pictures/texts being sent back and forth. Long story short I force the couples counselling. So she stopped going about 8 months ago, and went haphazardly prior to then, I was committed to every session and for many many sessions I was going alone to couples counselling (definition of irony).

Now for a bit longer than 3 years we've had little way of interpersonal connection (intimacy, just plain talk, time together etc). It has been a topic of contention that she can spent all evening chatting on facebook, but have no time to converse with me. Success rate for intimacy is about 5% all initiated by me, and having had/have social anxiety the constant knock-back is really starting to feel personal, especially given her emotional affair. Too much work, too tired, can't be bothered are common excuses given for any time together (including family time), but if a friend wants a visit....woooosh off she goes leaving me and the children.

I'm committed in this relationship, but it feels I have a flat mate whom we share custody of the children and the bills. She is a person who I feel doesn't know the value of something until it is gone. Now I'm not looking for answers, I am here seeking comments from people who have experienced similar. How long does one usually work at a relationship problem before deciding enough is enough? If/when it is time to move on, do you really have to think about it, or does one just know when it is the right time and they just make it happen? I know it may seem harsh, but years of oodles of arguments, emails, reading, counselling.......there is only so much I see I can do to try and resolve things. Unfortunately it doesn't just impact me, it will impact the children for the rest of their life what decision I make. Relationships are a two way street requiring two people to commit, unfortunately I feel very alone with this.

Thanks for reading.

CalculatedRisk

Feeling alone in the relationship.

Apollo_Black — Tue, 29 Mar 2016 10:57:53 GMT

Hey there

I know you're not looking for answers but Google Athol Kay and his work regarding increasing your attractiveness and stamping out affairs - it might shed some light on your situation. It's worth a look. Personally I'm at the tail end of my marriage but lost in trying to save the unsaveable so I'm not much help there I'm afraid, but I know exactly how you're feeling and you are not alone. I wish I knew what I know now 4 years ago....I confronted my wife and wasn't prepared for her to call my bluff and my marriage exploded.

However I must say that you need to give your partner a good chance to turn things around. Make it loud and clear with fair warning.

Are you sure she's not having an affair? Is there any way you can check? If she is there is very little chance of you making any positive impact. I know you probably have done so but do your research and get yourself into a good position before you act.

I am interested in what you mean by oodles of emails, reading, etc

Feeling alone in the relationship.

CalculatedRisk — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 03:08:48 GMT

Thanks for the reply. I will look into Athol Kay. I haven't gone down the attractiveness path as I didn't believe that was an issue.

When say 'oodles of emails, reading etc' I refer to the fact that she has difficulty in talking about a problem, instead prefers email as a method. I have spent considerable time emailing back and forth with her trying to resolve stuff. I have read numerous books and credible website literature in looking for strategies, both in the relationship and myself alone at trying to make it work.

I know with 99.9% certainty that she is not having a physical affair. Unless she is having it during work time, then I doubt it is happening. I know it isn't happening outside of work as when she leaves to go visit her friends they go horse riding etc. There may be a new or continued emotional affair going, I don't know. I know many an hour is wasted on facebook.

Cheers,

Feeling alone in the relationship.

pipsy — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 05:07:45 GMT

Dear CalculatedRisk. My name is Lynda. You have a very unique marriage problem where wife is committed to fb, you are committed to marriage/children. Have you tried writing to your wife explaining how lonely you feel. That suggestion is not as dumb as it first seems. If your wife is committed to giving the children a good mum and dad, then she should be just as committed to her marriage. Please don't take offense at what I'm about to say, but could your wife be a bit bored with just talking everyday topics, children, finances, home life etc. Have you looked at her conversations on fb to see what she actually talks about? Perhaps she needs very stimulating conversation outside the marriage. I know with me, my ex used to mainly discuss money (or lack of), where we could go to eat, that about sums up our marriage conversation. There was no intimacy at all, he was not a romantic, couldn't even say the word, 'love', even when singing along to 'love songs' on the radio. He would substitute 'lunch' for the word 'love'. We parted late last year due to interference by his parents. If your wife craves 'love talk' and seems to be getting it on fb, obviously you need to try to understand this side of her. I'm not saying you're at fault, nor is she, communication in marriage is ultra. Try asking her straight out how to talk to her, what does she want that she feels she's missing out. Tell her you love her and want to please her, but are at a loss where and how to start.

Feeling alone in the relationship.

Apollo_Black — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 08:03:41 GMT

Hi again

by attractiveness I don't mean just physical attraction. You should check Athol out. Is there a way you can gain access to her FB messages to be 100% certain nothing is going on?? If there is it needs to be stamped out

Feeling alone in the relationship.

pipsy — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 09:03:06 GMT

Hi again, CalculatedRisk. Reading through Apollo Black's post, I can't help but agree with it up to a point. If you can indeed access wife's fb to read what's being written, it should give you an idea what to say to her. Perhaps whoever is writing to her is saying what she wants to hear, not necessarily 'chatting' her up, but just saying really nice, personal comments that you should be making. We all like to know how special and loved we are. Maybe you could email wife and say the things you want to say, but feel a bit shy about saying them. I was 'scammed' recently, the thing that I did appreciate (even though it was b*****) was the nice things he said. He made me feel special, he called me beautiful. Okay, he tried to get money, but the lead up was what was so nice. Don't worry, no money was exchanged, and I have no contact with him now, the point I'm making is, every woman likes to be told how beautiful she is. I know you said you've already tried emailing her to resolve issues, have you told her via email that you love her?

Feeling alone in the relationship.

Apollo_Black — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 11:11:49 GMT

By the way, Facebook is the devil. I dunno. Maybe suggest the odd device free evening every now and then. Or no Facebook/internet until you've had the chance to have a chat after dinner. I must say, as soon as my wife started on Facebook again things went downhill even quicker. I hate it more than anything

Feeling alone in the relationship.

CMF — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 11:12:29 GMT

Hi,

you mention you were diagnosed 8 years ago and noticed your marriage slipping awY 3 years ago. How were things in between? I'm not suggesting an emotional affair is acceptable but is it possible that those years you were unwell she felt lonely, unsupported, not sure how to help you? How was your relationship during the lead up to your discovery? Were you withdrawn, unable to bring much to the relationship because of your anxiety and depression? I think people seek emotional support if for some reason they can't get that from their partner. How was she whilst you were not well? Was she supportive? When my marriage fell apart I was like your wife, on Facebook, going out occaisionLly with work friends, not talking to my partner but the lead up was I felt unappreciated and was often put down by him and told I shouldn't have a social life as I was home with kids and not working therefore why should I be able to go out? I was very hurt about how I was treated and put down. After I had the kids he stopped helping around the house because I didn't work etc. we didn't connect anymore. I suddenly didn't deserve a life out of the home if he had to look after the kids. I'm not suggesting that you do these things but wondering how she felt during those years and the lead up. Did she feel she had lost her partner? How old are your children? If the lines of communication have broken down and you've tried everything with no success then I think you eec to consider your future happiness and that if your children. You deserve happiness and you children deserve happy parents. I think in your heart you will know when it's time to move on, you children will adjust. How do you think she will react if you suggest a separation? You mention she doesn't know the value till its gone? Maybe a temporary separation to see how you both really feel?

Feeling alone in the relationship.

pipsy — Thu, 31 Mar 2016 01:34:08 GMT

Hi Apollo. Appreciate your feelings re: fb, but feel inclined to disagree. I am on fb regularly with friends, family. I also have connections with my church via fb. We send messages of condolences, support, social function etc. If you abuse the fb content, yes it can lead to problems, but if you use it as a means of connecting to people you otherwise would have no means of communication, it's great. There is also skype which I use to talk to o'seas family. Like 'can't move forward', I feel without fb/internet/skype, I'd be extremely lonely. Maybe C.R's wife feels lonely and feels she can't talk to him for some reason. Fb is not the problem, who she's talking to on it, is. If C.R can find out who she's talking to, get an idea how the conversation is going, it might help him know how to talk to her. I'd say they're both lonely and don't know how to rebuild the bridge.

Feeling alone in the relationship.

Apollo_Black — Thu, 31 Mar 2016 03:09:20 GMT

Hi pipsy - yes I know what you mean. Facebook can be great but it is also a conduit for emotional affairs. There is no way around this of course, however I think if the bulk of an evening is spent with each other buried in their iPhone's then there's a problem (it doesn't mean somone's having an affair though). This was certainly an issue for me and I ignored it to some degree, however even when I tried to address it, I was met with apathy from my wife. It's only my experience though and everyone is different of course.

Feeling alone in the relationship.

coopere — Fri, 01 Apr 2016 11:55:23 GMT

Calculated risk, Know the feeling. My husband has been cheating on me for two and a half years and am unsure it has ended. Keep getting my hopes up.

Feeling alone in the relationship.

CalculatedRisk — Sat, 02 Apr 2016 07:00:37 GMT

Thank you for the response all. During our counselling sessions (with a psychologist btw) one of the tasks I had to do was try and rebuild trust, and the psychologist said that if I keep looking through emails/messages that I will never start to take the steps to trust again. Up until reading this thread I hadn't looked since. I don't use FB but from what I can see on the posts and messages, there is nothing untoward happening. I don't know if any other medium is being used to communicate to other people though.

The types of conversations are mainly about things she feels passionately about, but not passionate enough to do anything but be a keyboard warrior and post on social media - things such as animal cruelty and save the environment kind of material.

In response to when I was diagnosed with anxiety, the formal therapy was a 6 month session from which point I was able to function properly in society. How were things for her? I don't know exactly, I do know unlike her I told her what I was going through and the steps I was taking. If she has a problem she certainly isn't talking to me about it. I understand conversation can suffer in a relationship, but she doesn't have any real communication with me. She used to fight with me because I wouldn't be interested in what people were doing on FB. It may be a good medium for some, but for me FB does not enhance or create meaningful relationships, and I see the potential for increased resentment due to the 'moments of bliss' people post - in my view is not reflective of their life, only reflective of that particular moment, but feel perhaps many people take it as a reflection of their life as a whole.

She does have a preference to spend the evening on FB than interacting. I understand you don't expect people to give you their undivided attention at all times, but the time spent on FB being 'social' far far exceeds the time anyone would be social in a face to face setting had FB not been around.

Relationships take two, but I am struggling to work out the best path to communicate my loneliness. In short say "I'm lonely" and hope it gets listened to? Come out and say "things need to change" but then do things change because they are seen and wanted to or because there may be an ultimatum interpreted in the conversation? Is being inter-connected just as important as respect and honesty? If respect or honesty is missing then it is deemed ok for a relation to end, then perhaps that is too.

Feeling alone in the relationship.

pipsy — Sat, 02 Apr 2016 07:40:33 GMT

Hi C.R. There is one thing I picked up on in your post. You mentioned your wife feels passionately about certain issues, animal cruelty, etc. What are your views about the things you know she feels passionately about? Do you have opinions about what she wants to discuss? How long have you been together? Before fb started, I know it's been around for a long time, but you must have had some sort of relationship? My ex and I used to have trouble communicating. His problem and my problem was, we had little in common. He was working, I wasn't, I couldn't get a job, I am totally unskilled. I relied totally on him for companionship. When we were together he would do a lot of 'surfing' that was hugely popular when computers first took place of t.v. I'm not blaming him or me, we just weren't suited. I feel you and your wife are, it's just that neither of you know what interests the other. Relationships do take two, you're right, but being solely reliant on each other for stimulation can get harder as you get more used to each other. I don't get the feeling she doesn't respect you, I get the feeling she may want you to actively participate. You don't have to agree with all her views, but if you feel strongly against something she feels equally passionate 'for', perhaps you could 'swap' views. What about general 'current affairs'. Look at what the original attraction was, see if you can stimulate something about what attracted you in the beginning. I think she's using fb because she wants to communicate and she doesn't know how to talk to you anymore. No-one's fault, you both need to learn to talk again.

Feeling alone in the relationship.

Apollo_Black — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 09:31:55 GMT

Have you checked out Athol Kay yet? Start working on your own stuff to get your needs met. Rely less on her. If she doesn't come to the party there is a process you can follow

Feeling alone in the relationship.

CalculatedRisk — Sat, 09 Apr 2016 01:58:42 GMT

Well sorry for the delay in my response, I have taken some time to filter and comprehend the advice and opinions thus far. Pipsy, in regard to her beliefs, we do share the same/similar beliefs, however I do not share them strongly enough to do something about it ie: I don't agree with whale slaughter, but not strongly enough to be proactive about it. She on the other hand does believe strongly, but her only action is social media about the issue. So she feels passionately enough to post on social media, but not to actually do something. I personally believe you fix your own backyard before looking over the fence and passing judgement. We used to have quite a communicative relationship, we were active together, conversed, very little in the way of issues (disagreements which is to be expected). I must say that with the few posts I have put here, you have certainly been able to have insight into my situation, and I sincerely appreciate your input.

AC, thanks again for the suggestion of the literature. I am presently 1/3 of the way through his 2011 book (revised in 2015). Thus far not starting good for me, the "I love you but not in love with you" is a phrase muttered several times in the past. That said, the book itself is a very easy read, make perfect sense, and it comes across as though a mate is sitting next to me telling me all that information. It isn't informal or dry.

Unfortunately irrespective of causes and faults, the situation is having a negative impact on the children. The psychologist we/I went to for couples counselling said to not worry about the kids too much as kids are resilient and bounce back - but I can't help but wonder how much an innocent child can take before it impacts them.

Anyway I'm going to finish the book from the author AC suggested and do some soul searching for me. Hopefully along the way it will uplift the kids. As much as part of me wants it to work out, there is a deeper part of me that all and any attempts to fix the relationship have not been followed through on her behalf, and the phrase "that ship has sailed" rings in the back of my mind for her to start to come to the party.

Feeling alone in the relationship.

pipsy — Sat, 09 Apr 2016 04:02:44 GMT

Hi C.R. While I agree you need to keep your own house in order, before worrying about others, it's still healthy to at least discuss pro's and cons about issues you feel strongly for and against. If you find you get too agro, the best idea is simply to agree to disagree. I think, also your psych is pretty much on the ball when he/she mentioned the kids resilience to domestic unrest. It's possible the kids may question certain aspects of what's wrong between you, this is fairly natural and just to explain mum and dad are having problems should ease their minds a bit. Have you tried telling her your feelings about how you see her as not doing her 'bit' to help save the relationship. Unfortunately, with some people clarification is necessary.

I feel so sorry you've almost reached this point.

Lynda.

Feeling alone in the relationship.

Apollo_Black — Sun, 10 Apr 2016 12:34:06 GMT

Hey C.R.

At least you're doing something about it. Actions speak louder than words sometimes. And at the end of the day if you're done, you're done. Sometimes there is nothing you can do. Athol Kay's next book "The Mindful Atrraction Plan" is a lot more user friendly and less of a hammer to the head. it is a sensible path to resolution, whatever the outcome. I also recommend posting on his forum for guidance, if you're up for it that is and favour his approach.

I did a coaching session with him last week over Skype - but that's another story

Feeling alone in the relationship.

CalculatedRisk — Sun, 15 May 2016 10:59:07 GMT

Hi All, been a while and sad to say not much has gone forward in the relationship department. There have been a few blowups, all my fault of course!! I finished reading the book, and after reading it I was left with a strong sense of "gee this is so obvious".

There has been discussion with the wife, and she is very content and happy where she is, however I feel there is an element of taking me for granted. When I express where my needs are not being met, there is huge resistance and "boohoo" sarcastic responses. When the storm clears she communicates via email in a rational way describing what is going on in her mind. If I take out all the noise (my way of saying "the differing excuses") she appears depressed. What irks me is she appears to coherently know what is wrong, but will do nothing about it, rather hide on facebook and say that I need to make a decision if I want to stay (though this last option she knows is hard because we have two kids whom I adore and will forever be in their life).

What I can't get a grip on is why when I talk of my needs (currently lack of intimacy, couples time, talking, outings etc) she combines it all as just sex, and not having any is just fine and she is happy with that. Well if I decide to stop paying the mortgage or cooking tea...is that fine? Whilst the action (or lack of) may be different, the principles are identical - one can't just stop without conversation and a clear path on moving forward.

To answer pipsy, I have expressed my concerns and suggested she try and help save the relationship, however majority of the time it is responded to in anger that everything is fine. Following day usually results in an email with a list of excuses as to her outburst and knowledge that something is wrong but don't know what to do about it.

The bit I am struggling with at the moment is I am a rational person, but when thinking of the kids emotion gets involved. For me right now, I need to find a way to move on, but stand my ground. If when I move on she promises to sort out her issues....well the ship has sailed I think. Hard I know, I love her, but one can only go on for so long in a non-committal relationship.

Anyway, as any new profound events occur, I shall return.

Feeling alone in the relationship.

pipsy — Sun, 15 May 2016 23:34:09 GMT

Hi C.R. From where I'm standing (correct me if I'm wrong), you seem to be talking from two completely different viewpoints on saving the marriage. You've asked for intimacy, talking, time together, she seems to almost accuse you of wanting something you're not actually asking for. She seems to be able to write it down via fb, but has trouble on face to face talking. She's happy, why aren't you, seems to be where the problem is? It almost sounds as though she's deliberately goading you to say something so she can have a major blowout. When you tried asking for communication, she tried goading you with sarcasm. If you were to leave, what would her reaction be regarding the children. Would she be okay about you seeing them whenever or would she put up barriers. If she admits to you being a great father (which I've no doubt you are) the children shouldn't suffer at all. Some kids fair better when there's less tension between their parents. It might be an idea to look at leaving, perhaps temporarily to give you both breathing space. Once apart your wife might become softer and care more. Normally I wouldn't suggest time apart, but nothing else seems to be working and you've tried everything.

Lynda.

P.S. Hope I haven't upset you, that was not my intention.

Feeling alone in the relationship.

Apollo_Black — Mon, 16 May 2016 01:54:06 GMT

Hey CR - things aren't critical - yet.

Don't forget about the "Mindful Attraction Plan". Also consider getting advice on Athol's MMSL forum. You'll need to do quite a lengthy "triage" however it's worth it for the advice you'll receive.

You have every right to want an intimate fulfilling marriage - however you need to stop what you're currently doing because it's not working and you need to find a different solution. If what you read in his first book made some sense - consider joining his forum. The key is to start from the beginning and work your way up the chain (ie: ensure you are physically fit - relationship comfort - etc)... I found the Mindful Attraction Plan more palatable. At least you can work on different areas to improve yourself and take the heat off arguing with your wife about it (for now) - because that clearly isn't working. I see a lot of what your wife is saying in my situation - but at least it sounds like she isn't prepared to go completely psycho because of it... Join the MMSL forum