topic Re: Fast tracking problems - anti dwelling- identifying the moment in Staying well

Fast tracking problems - anti dwelling- identifying the moment

white knight — Sat, 19 Oct 2024 00:59:56 GMT

I have, through natural processes, chased methods of how I can more quickly overcome roadblocks in my life. This is fundamentally due to having had a stressed life eg long relationships failing and the grief processes along with them. Over time I've grown less tolerant of that grief and become more desperate to leap frog them onto happier times. This is why I'm sharing this with you as it has saved me from much hurt.

The scenario- A long term relationship begins to fail. You've tried counselling and changes, nothing works. Your partner says they no longer are in love with you. Your natural strategy is save the relationship but you've already tried doing that with counselling... what extra counselling will you both need that would reverse this falling out of love development? Sometimes a partner will hold on forever waiting until all their issues vanish, they rarely ever do. When is the time to be realistic? Well that is subjective but as a rule of thumb there are signs that pop up regularly that tell you it can be saved or cant be saved. Eg both declaring love for each other and acknowledging outside stresses are to blame is a "can be saved" moment. A "I'm not in love with you now" is a "cant be saved" moment. Those phrases may be comments that are regretful and expressing that could go from cant be saved to reconsidering if it can be saved, but this isnt common.

I had a "cant be saved" moment in a past relationship. My partner over many years had manipulated our finances to become the number one controller of our money. I was on an allowance. By this time I wasnt happy about it and felt my easy going demeanour resulted in being taken advantage of. I was earning 3 times her salary but always treat us to equal. Then a lifelong passion arrived- to purchase a special vehicle. That car would be owned by our company so it was a tax incentive... or we pay extra tax, so it was also clever to buy. She was not a car person so rejected the idea. At one point in our discussions she made a statement- "you can have the car but you have to save for it out of your allowance". I worked it out to take 42 years. That night we talked and that moment it "cant be saved" came "well start saving". I've discussed "passions" in other threads but a passion is a burning desire and those without a passion dont have that feeling and cant relate. It was over.

So, making quick decisions saves us from more hurt and dragging out issues- nip it in the bud!. Your thoughts?

TonyWK

Re: Fast tracking problems - anti dwelling- identifying the moment

randomxx — Sat, 19 Oct 2024 03:22:52 GMT

Hi there Tony.

Thinking one more dimension from me personally , on the as to whether it's a can or a can't.

Still says she still loves me every time we talk , but yet also says she just can't be in a relationship though bc of her stress and anxiety and the health problems it's all giving her and that she can't even look after herself anymore.

So to me it's a can be bc the love is still there and so is all the things that made us up as a couple, but then it's a can't bc although she still loves me, she says she can't.

What is all that l'd like to know ?

l agree with the fast tracking thing though bc l saw all this stuff in her 6yrs earlier when we met and so that's why even with the love and all we had, it ate at me and l couldn't commit. And so all that time, and here we are so should have l fast tracked it and gotten out sooner or would committing have avoided the way she's feeling now , dk .

Re: Fast tracking problems - anti dwelling- identifying the moment

Scared — Sat, 19 Oct 2024 04:42:09 GMT

Yes but love is often irrational where by we put up with or do things we dont normally let our rational mind say or do.
I agree with you to pull the pin on a souring relationship early to avoid the drawn out pain ahead and that is rational thinking. I too use rational thinking when my g/f doesnt call me as much and I immediately understand she doesnt miss me as much as I miss her. But the rational thinking is to save oneself from pain thus allowing the irrational thinking to creep in and take over. Is this irony or a paradox im not quite sure. At the same time your brain is saying end it now equally it saying the opposite. Our brains are obviously wired to dodge emotional hurt but then comes a bigger question as why then we allow ourselves emotional pain as so many of us do on beyond blue. I mean rationally I can say I dont want this depression anymore yet my depression at the same time can then be seen as irrational as I dont want it. Im then led to believe that you cant be rational without the opposite irrational existing in the same place. I admit I am completely irrational in this context even knowing its to my detriment. Maybe our need for irrational thought comes from evolution in keeping couples together for a child to have the best chance of survival for the sole purpose of keeping a species progressing. I speculate but why not

Re: Fast tracking problems - anti dwelling- identifying the moment

white knight — Sun, 20 Oct 2024 03:33:37 GMT

I'm familiar with your situation as I followed most of your posts on your thread of recent times.

Ok, so lets narrow down a few things using some logic and rubbery figures. Let's say out of 100 people we could fall in love with 10 of them. Out of that 10 there could be 2 that we are very compatible with and stay with each other forever. Then there could be 5 that the relationship wouldnt work out at all and they wouldnt be saying they still love you after separation. Then there is 3 left and those are the ones that leave the relationship but still harbour some love for you. Of those 3, 2 could get back together once issues were fixed and 1 out of the 3 could be a person that is open enough to state they still love you. That could be your ex.

For someone to say "I still love you" can be broken down into segments. Obviously they could love you but they dont think they are compatible/share interest etc. The other possibility is that we all describe "love" differently. There is a giant gulf between "I love you" and "I love you and cannot bare to see us not be together, I cant live without you- can we try again?". Then there is the person that says the "love" when really they say it because they like you or embrace the memories they shared with you and so on. You could interpret her "I love you" as being something so special that there is hope you'll both reunite, whereas she could say that to another ex boyfriend and so forth.

"The phrase of "I love you" can only be taken seriously as 'true love' when the words are backed up with commitment and actions... otherwise it's just 3 words... albeit rather hollow for you (as they lead nowhere)but means something to her, short of reuniting"

I have more female friends than male friends due to my sensitivity. I'm more emotionally connected. So a female friend I've known since we were teens, when I leave from a visit she tells me "I love you". We can get so focussed on these words but we should regard them as "can't" moments if they aren't accompanied by the actions that suit a romantic commitment.

Finally, an ex partner might have other reasons hidden. eg if she decided that she wants a different type of guy be it physical, emotional or personality, that should be taken in a manner that isnt personal. It's nothing personal for someone to seek someone different, it doesnt mean you arent good enough to be loved and to give love but everything to do with her not finding what she wants in yourself. Whereas another lady, you might tick all the boxes and never leave your side.

A good test for committed love from an ex is to see if they knock on your door and they tell you face to face that they want to reunite by moving back in. If they dont visit and say anything else then its mere words.

Moving on is hard but in my experience its easier when you start dating and once you fall in love again it becomes clearer why it didnt work out. I saw an ex I lived with for 7 years at the local shops 3 months after we split. I left her as she couldnt commit enough. We chatted and I said "I really loved you" and she said "yes I know but I'm confused". That was a "cant" moment as her confusion was why she could never commit. What I needed was "I was confused then but I'm not now, I still love you and I'd like to try again, what do you think".

TonyWK

Re: Fast tracking problems - anti dwelling- identifying the moment

white knight — Sun, 20 Oct 2024 03:55:37 GMT

Hi Scared

I agree with you about evolution and survival from our actions

Some times its impossible to explain lust when we have a logical mind. Lust or love can be so magnetic that logic disappears. We can be physically compatible and fully "in love" but not compatible in any other way or the reverse. It is indeed a minefield. The older we get the better we become in navigating that dangerous field.

We "allow ourselves emotional pain" because we are wired without the necessary roadblocks other people have that stops them getting committed emotionally in the early days. Us emotional types that fall in love quicker become startled when our newish partner breaks it off because we might like football or she feels smothered or there's a guy she met that she likes better???

When I was in my 20's I saw girl after girl get together with what I felt was a poor catch, some guy that treated her poorly, drank heavily, had a girl on the side. I could never understand it. When I became single again at 40yo I was shocked how many divorced women out there wanted a single guy like me that eg built his own house, ran his own business, treated his lady like a princess and loved children. It seemed the girls in my 20's with the wrong guy committed to them and learned their lesson as to what is a good guy and what they really wanted. The same goes in reverse.

The situation of one partner more needy for them than the other can be frustrating. We all like to be loved but some like to be loved one hour and freedom for activities the next. My wife has a cousin that she's close to, a lady her own age and my wife met her husband on the wedding day 25 years ago. That was the only day she met him in 25 years until we got married and he turned up. So her cousin was social, active in dog clubs etc but he remain at home... but they love each other and are committed, odd but??

Perhaps I'm introducing rationality to an emotional topic- love. But that rational thinking is a safeguard to what love can do to us. To come to a quicker result and move on by identifying the "can" and "cant's" moment isnt easy, however once into the habit of doing so you will know that true love and commitment has arrived when you drop them off at their door and realise the whole day was feeling of can, can, can....

TonyWK

Re: Fast tracking problems - anti dwelling- identifying the moment

randomxx — Sun, 20 Oct 2024 04:43:48 GMT

Thx for the thoughts Tony much appreciated , and what's more they make sense of a few things.

1stly though l should add that me feeling as though l can't commit then goes right through in that case and l wasn't my usual self in a partner way, always holding back and a bit suss. Says bad match right there likely l know but l just needed things from her to trust the situation got all the love and affection a man could want but it didn't always feel real- which bugged me even more.

So when l say committed, l just mean l never did find out how things would've been if l'd had been my full on bf self with her instead. So all that was a catch 22 bc she didn't understand that l saw things in her about her, even though now she says when l reminded her so ok you were right, l know l was right, l knew then too. But so that all left her needing from me too bc l was hold back it hurt me to but l had to go with my conscience.

So with all those different loves you talk about , yeah , l see what you mean and l agree. l think she does love me for sure and she has done soooo much in all kinds of ways butttt, she was also in huge jambs all through too and needed it though and so what kind of love well, as you say nope she isn't turning up now and saying she wants to try again, she has everything she needs now that was the other part that always worried me and here we are. Her situation is sorted now but now she's too sick to have a relationship, apparently. lt might be about us too, ldk. l kind of did leave her needing more bc of my side in things, but at the same time, her mum has done and says all the exact same things. 78 now been single 30yrs. She's always thought she's doomed to be her mum.

l feel like saying when she does talk loving me,l need real love so pls just don't say it anymore.

l use to have friend girls but l've given up. They either fell in love or wanted to sleep with me. So either way, the old girls as friends thing, it's just never worked out. l'd always think well it's obvious l'm not in love with you and l don't wanna sleep with you or l'm married or whatever, that's why we're just friends butttt, apparently it's not. So l take my hat off to you in navigating that one.

l'm a bit scared to jump back in tbh , even if there was someone about l felt that way about. I was still getting over ex w when l met gf , she was very patient but it really messed with me and wasn't fair on her. l just don't want to expect someone else to wait around for me.

Re: Fast tracking problems - anti dwelling- identifying the moment

white knight — Mon, 21 Oct 2024 04:43:05 GMT

Re: "got all the love and affection a man could want but it didn't always feel real" the question now is- would you have felt "real" with another compatible woman? eg you were getting the love and affection you needed so is there elements of her that didnt stack up and of those would have you found the same in another person? Road blocks can come with every potential partner and that narrows the problem down to your own quirks. Such quirks are a direct threat to happiness.

Following 3 long term relationships I was committed to finding my soul mate. So I dated a lady that I'd matchmade with my once brother in law. During one date we danced in my kitchen. This lady was actually my best friend for over 25 years. After 10 days she broke it off. She was surprised with my philosophical reaction. Secretly I adored her as a friend and potential soul mate but outwardly my reaction was- if she is hesitant then she isnt what I hoped for. So she asked me "why so cool about it". "Well my soul mate would want me forever, wouldnt make me fight too hard for her heart and we would work everything out together, the world would be our oyster". Then a few days passed and she rang to meet me. At a park she was upset, she had felt uncomfortable that I was kind of "family". So I discounted that and told her so. "I always admired you" she said, and "I know I could fall in love with you but I'm scared". My answer- "well the way I feel, due to knowing who you are over a long time, I'll either dance with you in my kitchen or I wont dance at all with anyone else". The fact was I'd remain single from 53yo onwards. I wouldnt be bothered trying with anyone else. We married the following year and now 13 years.

My point is- if a relationship breaks up the reason it dissolved must be fundamentally decisive. If there is say 3 or 4 issues that could be fixed also decisively, then it could work again. If there is present multi "if's" and "why's" then its a never ending circle of confusion.

My first real love for 7 years (the lady I bumped into at shops 3 months after we broke up)... throughout those 7 years she couldnt move on into a marriage (we lived together but marriage in my period was still expected). After 6 years I gave her an ultimatum "in 12 months if you arent decisive we are no longer". 12 months to the day her answer was "I'm still thinking about it but I love you". That was heart tearing but I left. I had to accept that the one road block was never going to repair itself. 20 years on we met up. She was living with a guy for 5 years. I asked "would you ever marry him". Her reply "I'm thinking about it" lol.

So, a person could be perfect in every way but one major one, that one hurdle will always remain a hurdle...

TonyWK

Re: Fast tracking problems - anti dwelling- identifying the moment

randomxx — Mon, 21 Oct 2024 10:00:02 GMT

Can't thank you enough Tony as your ideas and wisdom mean a lot to me and the proof is also in the pudding as they say.

She said to me once, you will never get a better partner than me, and she was right. As l say she was such a giving person and took great pleasure , genuine please in just looking after you , and you her, it was a huge part of her culture.

None of that was the problem . The reason it didn't feel real bc earlier on she needed someone, desperately, so that was one angle and as l say her problems are sorted now but they were huge, but now that they are she doesn't need me and here we are. So that was one angle that really worried me early in. What happens when her stuff was sorted, will she still be the same- that took 4yrs.

The other part was though on the other hand, there were things about her character, personality, attitudes, some of that cultural too, what it meant though was that there were traits l just didn't trust, and once again, here we are.

l really hoped to see those, l really hoped to be wrong, l wanted to marry her, but l needed to be sure l was wrong about those things first.

Problem was, as a sweetheart as she can be, to this day it still looks like unfortunately l was right about them.

So love, affection and anything else could want are all beautiful and many a man might've been happy bc of all that, but l needed to know it was all real, not just duty or culture or that she needed me. And that the love was real too, and in the right kind of love,the kind you talked about.

But sadly once again, l was right about that and it's depth, it's kind of love, too.By the looks anyway bc once again, here we are.

As far as compatibility, we had differences, but but nothing extreme or unworkable , the kind your talking about. We felt the same and most things in the world too, views and stuff and we existed mostly really well together, my weird lifestyle was exactly hers too which is rare.

But nope, had of it had been an Australian girl or probably other nationalities , l wouldn't have even had those issues and doubts, not if it was real love, bc they work and think totally differently, more akin to the sort of thing you describe.

GF actually had a hard time wrapping her head around some of our ways and attitudes compered to hers,theirs, she didn't get a lot of it. lt's very complicated all that but you get the gist.

But as you say, in those ways there were things too that did make us in ways incompatible but which wouldn't have even been a thing with someone else.

You were right too in being that way with now wife, earlier. Unfortunately l tried it too with her but it didn't work. She was really curious and started calling me and messaging a lot , a wk after telling me she couldn't be in a relationship , but in the end though sadly nothing had really changed deep down. Think she was just a bit bamboozled at my reaction in ok then and walking away to start.

But like you say l guess, lf she didn't turn around and get her head straight, try , then she wouldn't have been the one and so l suppose gf isn't the one either then.

ldk how l feel about starting again yet or bothering. Sounds like your mind was made up though. l would prefer a partner l've always preferred that life, l don;t know if she;ll come along again though now.

Thanks again Tony.

Cheers

Re: Fast tracking problems - anti dwelling- identifying the moment

randomxx — Mon, 21 Oct 2024 11:13:28 GMT

Tony , did you always love your friend in this way, or did something change causing you to finally realize and get together after all those yrs ?

As far as the fixable things with gfx, any of my doubts were basically fixable. The one most important thing that basically came from these things causing doubts, could've changed everything , it all lead back to one thing.

Trust basically, trust in her love and of how real it was.

But as you've said , real love will stick around and want to work it out, the right kind of love will.

That was my problem in a nutshell, l just never quite felt as though she would if the going got tough, and here we are.

Got no doubt she does still love me as she says, but l don't think it's that kind of love you talk about or the kind l also needed to see.

Unless, it really is all about her sicknesses , what do you think about that ?

She's been to hell and back over the last 10yrs poor thing but has had a hard life right through too .

She says her depression and anxiety now, is partly inherited . her mum and uncle both have terrible anxiety and depression , and part from real things and life she's been through.

That's why she says she can't work it out, say's she doesn't have the strength left not for two people or to even look after herself.

Would you think the right love could, ? l don't know myself . Her mum did the same thing in her 40s, cut of everything and has been alone since.

Re: Fast tracking problems - anti dwelling- identifying the moment

white knight — Mon, 21 Oct 2024 14:20:46 GMT

My 1st wife and I were married 11 years. During all that time I knew "D" and matchmade her to my BIL. I split with wife and lived with another for 10 years then split. D split with her husband after 20 years. So we were both single in 2009. We became a couple 2010. To answer your question, while we were with other partners we both didn't have any romantic feelings, pure friendship.

I will be frank, there's no hope that I can see for you both, based on lack of drive from her and trust issues from you. Relationships need effort and faith, hope and reassurance, care and sacrifice. It must all mesh like a smooth gearbox, not get stuck in 2nd.

"No doubt she still loves me"... more like she still possess (a) love for you. Having a love for you doesn't tick all the boxes, certainly it's something nice to hear and cradle those words but it isn't- "in love with you".

Google- beyondblue who cries over spilt milk

Beyondblue the frog and the scorpion this one teaches us that someone's nature doesn't change. I can discuss them when you tell me what you think of them

TonyWK

Re: Fast tracking problems - anti dwelling- identifying the moment

randomxx — Mon, 21 Oct 2024 20:41:31 GMT

Yeah, l wouldn't think you'd be the kind of man to walk round being married to somebody yet being in love with somebody else. l can understand how something else developed later on though in a different way with all new circumstances.

You hear of this sort of thing a lot really actually, well l have , and l always wonder about it when l hear of it and how it developed from one level to that next.but your situation makes perfect sense, your a lucky man mate.

Unfortunately l don't have any long term female friend where something like that might be possible.

Anyway, also sadly to yep, l think your right about gf. l always had a worry about her love. l put it in another post here but that one seems to have gone west , or we might end up with a double kinda post later on if it does pop up now.

But it all caused me to hold back on her. l was never the full partner, l just couldn't open up that door with her bc l just couldn't trust her love basically. lt's hard to explain but there were cultural attitudes with her people, there was also her desperate situation when we met, and also just some of her attitudes, it was a mix, but l just couldn't just couldn't trust it.

l often wonder what if l just did, laid it all out there, just went for it properly instead of this weird hold back thing l felt and couldn't help. Would've her love developed into the right love, or maybe it even was after all to start with but maybe l holding back just wore it down. She knew my love wasn't right either, at least not in the ways she was getting it and that really got to her and l couldn't blame her.

ln ways though even though l'd held it back, my love actually turned out more real , more the right kind than hers, really. Bc l'd still go on and work it out but hers had quit, sickness or not l still feel it's quit.

So now my doubts are even more so and l feel like moving on bc that's just not the love l wanted anyway. lf there was going to be another it'd need to be 100%.

Thanks a lot for the threads and this chat too Tony , very appreciated it's really cleared things up and pretty well also sadly confirmed what l'd feared too bc it all adds up. l'll find those and read through.

All the best

Re: Fast tracking problems - anti dwelling- identifying the moment

randomxx — Mon, 21 Oct 2024 21:22:15 GMT

This is actually the 3rd time she's done this. Spose l was an idiot going past the first one. l'd leave the door open though bc she's a hot head and stressed and her anxiety goes through the roof with her stuff still going on.

She'd usually just start talking again, messages n calls and l've let it go on from there. Some times l've thrown in a bit of temptation too , but so has she. like l'll come up to hers. lt's easier for me to get away and up to hers than for her to fly down to mine.

This time though she's seems different though and resigned to her doom, l call it, to be her mum. She's still calling and messaging, but still all doom and resigned .

ldk.

Re: Fast tracking problems - anti dwelling- identifying the moment

white knight — Mon, 21 Oct 2024 23:55:02 GMT

There's two things that stand out RX. You have a lot of "had I done this or that" I would have been better off. Or if I stopped trying the first time" it might have worked out. True love ticking all the boxes would have prevailed for both of you if it was there. You handled it your way and guilt shouldnt be an option because had you had your time again you likely would have done the same things because thats how RX does things. Guilt sometimes gathers momentum for one of two reasons, we compare our decisions to what others might do differently or we blame ourselves for things not working out because we feel incompetent. Neither is accurate. Guilt is a sham, its a shackle we dont need. Dwelling is a product of guilt and regret.

Remember, as I eluded earlier, there is women out there that are more suitable, all you have to do is find the one. People are so vastly different so no good saying to yourself that you wont look because of this reason and that reason and basing your thoughts on previous relationships. It's like a new discovery.

My daughter met her husband on Tinder. Their compatibility was remarkable, both teachers, both into computers and computer games, both aspiring for the same in life. To be successful on computer dating sites is to ignore the poor reviews of them and take out of them what you need, if the desire is to meet someone. Dating is one of the best forms of moving on from a past relationship because the realisation that people can be so different really hammers home on dating. My first real date with my current wife was vegetable soup at my house... there must have been something in the soup!!

There's a lot of "maybe's" in this thread. That's a sure sign of dwelling. Dwelling on the past is commonly due to-

remaining in contact with the person you dwell on (so constant reminders)
a mental roadblock with moving on
not taking practical steps to distract you from past life (dating or sports/hobbies)
Not busy enough
Feeling like a comfort zone is to go over and over on the same topic thinking that will sort it out
having an indecisive parent
Guilt and/or regret
Romanticising the good and dismissing the bad of a relationship
of the false belief that no one could ever replace that person in ones heart

Hence why all of the above can be disregarded with the direct decision that - no it didnt work out, I tried my best, she wasnt ideal so I must move on. Now, where do I start...

I'm not disregarding the intensity and hurt you've experienced nor continue to suffer from, its terrible to dwell on things as I used to do the same (my mother was a chronic dweller). The road towards stopping to dwell isnt an easy one to follow through with. It take almost personality change. Hence a need for practical steps to force yourself into activities and being busy with life so your focus is on other things.

How do I know this? That 1st wife of mine we had 2 kids. Due to her abuse of me over 11 years (yes it started on out honeymoon), that led to that one and only suicide attempt then left a week later, I ended up in my 11 foot caravan in a caravan park with visitations every second weekend. It was only when I began to build my own home physically plus working 12 hour shift work that I was so busy and so exhausted daily, that after a while the grief of losing my full time fatherhood and the guilt of "could I have done this or that better" that I no longer had time to think about it. The 8 months of building the house before moving in (still a lot of work to do) allowed me my freedom of mind, a process to stop dwelling. It was a game changer.

An example of dwelling. I left the RAAF at 21yo. When I was 19 I had a brawl with a colleague and I felt guilty about it as he had been a friend. So at 21yo I found his at a new airforce base and surprised him when he saw me. I apologised to him and he walked away. That was 1977. Then when Facebook came about in 2010 I found him on that and sent him a message. He blocked me. I told a close friend about this continuation of my dwelling over this that spanned 33 years!. He said "well I would have stopped contact the first time". That comment provided me with the knowledge of what was reasonable and what was over dwelling on the past. Being forgiven was my need, it is no longer a need.

Such growth results in the future being more important.

TonyWK

Re: Fast tracking problems - anti dwelling- identifying the moment

randomxx — Tue, 22 Oct 2024 03:47:57 GMT

l take time to work through things and l like that , especially in something like this.

One things for sure , l've sold my share of the property nd am now living up on the Murray in a caravan, so yeah , there's new direction alright .

l made my mind up and got the ball rolling the minute she flipped this last time.

l was there until my d grew up and she is was really happy l'd decided to do this.The idea was 8yrs ago buying that was to be there for her and with her while she grows up but to also have a nice life and spot after divorce for myself too, it was a gorgeous spot and place, but to also see if l liked it long term.

lf not l'd move later on was the thought.

Always told gf to that the town the place , the house, it was a lovely life as a couple situation, but should l end up single when d is ready, l'd leave.

Gf went off, why did you leave why did you leave well, you flipped again, l'd had enough, and now l've left, but then she's but but but, no more buts though sorry love.

Been a huge few mths let me tell ya, wrote about it in your other thread you linked for me a wk or two back.

So yeah, new life as we speak, dk what l think of it yet but anytime l send pics to anyone they're saying you lucky bugger so eh,, hopefully well, we see.

Mind you , few times lately l wake up step out and think- you lucky bugger ha ha, so we see.

l don't want to deal with any more property any time soon, and l'm not sure where l'll go when l do, and l don't really giva damn either right now.

Maybe l'll meet miss right right here on the beautiful river hey.

Gf , you know, with ex w, l knew day we met, so did she, it was a given, no brainer. We traveled 10yrs and married on an island, had our beautiful daughter, but with the yrs we did change too and unfortunately well.

l did feel that way about gf too and so did she we talked about it within wks, she wanted to move in and go for it. l was the hold up.

Anywayyyy, l hear Tony and thku very much.

Re: Fast tracking problems - anti dwelling- identifying the moment

white knight — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 05:54:38 GMT

The Murray is great. There's a good free camp at Nyah west of SwanHill at the rec ground, water, dump. You are doing what I suggest to many, change environment settle yourself financially and go through the motions of figuring it all out until you can move on mentally. I think your last thread went some time and I couldnt keep up with the posts as so many replied. I hope you benefitted.

Re: Why did you leave etc" "You flipped again". Interesting. My lovely wife does have some depression, sleeps a lot. And with my issues we can help each other out when we are down unless we are both down at the same time then its tough. We identified that lack of sleep effects both of us in terms of mood. So that has helped figuring that out. But we that have mental health issues are really better off with someone stable as our rock. A therapist once said "Tony, when are you going to stop running around trying to save the world"? Well I still do a little but that comment alone made me identify that along with anxiety and mania she helps me to slow down merely being herself. She does everything at the same pace eg waling the dogs I often look around and she is 50 metres back "you're the one thats walking fast" lol. So there are so many things that we can number in terms of compatibility that we dont think of when dating or the first year or so living with someone.

One thing I'd like to mention RX is that I was one person with mental health issues that caused me to be immature for my age. eg at 17yo I joined the RAAF but emotionally I was say 13, At 21yo I worked in a maximum security jails but emotionally say 16 and so on. It was only when turning 50yo that I realised I was emotionally about 50yo, the same, I'd caught up. Most women are the opposite. So with some men like yourself (perhaps) you werent able to commit mentally to a relationship because you had some sort of discomfort from things like trust issues. I've known many men like that, whereas I was the opposite. When I married my first wife I shouldnt have and we had 2 kids and I paid a heavy penalty a few years later when I had to leave due to the torturous attitude she had. I dreamt of the day my youngest turned 18yo (14 years ago) and that day my child support stopped. I no longer had to tolerate her attitude and told her I no longer want any contact, no matter the reason.

So along those journeys I managed to realise some people were toxic and not good for me. But it would have been a shame if I'd become too much of a recluse. So I became very careful who I allowed into my life on a permanent basis.

TonyWK

Re: Fast tracking problems - anti dwelling- identifying the moment

Scared — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 07:02:53 GMT

May i chime in

Its about being inlove vs Loving someone

My mum used to tell me being in love is not the same as really loving somebody.

Her point of view was if your in love then you can fall out of love and that real love there is never a falling out of love.
For years i disagreed until I met my last partner. This time my love was different for her. I valued what was right for her and happy to put her first. And after 8 years my love has never wavered . Yet i dont feel in love only love for her wellbeing. And I wouldnt choose for any different now i feel this way. There is never temptation for others and for a long time I pulled my hair out trying to get her to believe me that i love her still even if she has put some pounds on. I always told her I love her however she looked and I cant fathom a time i could be out of love. Im not in love with her but I love her warts and all so to speak.

What are you thoughts on my views.

Re: Fast tracking problems - anti dwelling- identifying the moment

randomxx — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 09:58:33 GMT

Thx Tony and don't worry you haven't missed much in the thread, dilemmas been going on quite awhile and lots of circling. But, as l say to people that's often my way of working things through if l have to, works for me eventually.

Some things in life are down the barrel right but every now and then we get a tricky one.

There's a lot to our story though no cut and dry poor thing had the lot when l first met her and for 31/2 yrs in. A violent ex, courts, insane legals, lawyers, immigration, on and on.She'd had anxiety and depression most her life so you could just imagine all this, and in a new country.

And we were long distance too 70% of time bc she had to stay in Sydney for all that so added fin or us both too. l supported her all through as she did me too but l wasn't perfect either far from.

listening to you talk about different people and your own things too, probably a lot of us through bb see ourselves. We've both got tempers too like you and yours, l also have a sabotaging streak and she has a bit of it too-but with distance and all the stress plus my own stuff on top of hers, it was worse and made it even harder, especially for her.

Even with all that though, to this day l still hardly believe some of the things she's done for us and for me , been through for us and it's why l question everything and half the time it's not even her or love talking but anxiety and pressures.

And just today she proves it yet again. She text me with an idea. This is so her, in a gorgeous way l mean. She's excepted now l left my place and l'm up here and she has and idea. When l've finished my holiday she calls it, why don't l come and live in Sydney. Hence my on and on thread ha ha. Deep down even with all the stuff we've had and all this barking, end of the day inside, she hasn't given up.

This is about her 100th idea to save things, she;s a brilliant idearist .

l don't know what to say here after all that now so l'll just leave it there for now.

But yeah l've had so many realizations to this last 5-10yrs but especially through all this with her too. She is braver than me when it comes to commitment.

The Murray , hell yeah Tony , it's pretty well sacred to me as it should be to every Australian l feel. Such a special place all 2.6k kms of it, don't you think. You can still see our Aboriginal people here in the trees in the waters along the banks, 1000s and 1000s of yrs.

Thanks very much for that spot l'll def check it out when l head further down. l've stumbled over the most beautiful spot here atm , just out of Cobram, which is a lovely little place too but the Murry along here is just really something too.

rx.

ahh, ps.

Yaknow scared, l know what you mean and me, l think if l wanted to dig into it l'd say being in love turns into real love.

Re: Fast tracking problems - anti dwelling- identifying the moment

white knight — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 13:15:09 GMT

Thanks for your input Scared

I actually think "loving someone" is better than "in love". "In love" is blind to the warts, we ignore the bad habit and have unreal expectations of the future.

Loving someone can have various levels of intensity, of adoration and cherish them. It's more stable and sustainable.

TonyWK

Re: Fast tracking problems - anti dwelling- identifying the moment

white knight — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 13:29:58 GMT

Once we were on the Vic side of Yarrawonga busy camp spot. Over the river was a bank empty. So we went there. It's called Sandy Beach, 13km west of Mulwala. Top spot.

I think if I was you and your ex gf texted me with such idea to reunite I'd be asking for a detailed plan eg why, where, how, when and 1,5 10 year plan. If she can't provide details then it's shallow. Eg her mental health, what's her plan to prevent/reduce "flipping out" as you call it? How intense is her love for you? Could she visit you and spend a few weeks with you to test the waters? Does she know what happiness is? It's as though she has a level of comfort with you and yearns that but with no real plan it's like producing an ace and holding the deck hoping other aces will follow...

TonyWK

Re: Fast tracking problems - anti dwelling- identifying the moment

randomxx — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 21:00:52 GMT

Morning Tony and shout out to scared.

Thx again Tony might have to wander up there and check it out. Could only imagine all the spots along, hope to go all the way through to the mouth eventually, although lately l'm wondering how l'd even leave a spot like this o we see.

Yeah she's planned 100s of things for us right through she has brilliant ideas but l've been the silly bugger hold up .

She;s also come down to mine for mths a time over the yrs too she'd still be there she'd have never leave unless for legal obligations back up Sydney happened a few times. l'm the one usually gets um ah . l've realized l've subconsciously sabotaged , internally panicking , use to being on my own 5yrs before she came along, l'm fairly introvert, my divorce and everything there, as l say, she's much braver than me .

The anxiety and flip usually came into it from sydney when she's back home alone and panicking herself with all her pressures she has there, she's never like that when we're together.

My d says she gets back gets scared gets all her other pressures coming in again her anxiety hits the roof then here's us still long distance bc of me, l think d probably nailed it tbh.

But anyway, reading your other post about starting over and all those things you list, yeah, l can see what you mean. l don't usually have any contact with an ex myself actually either, ex w is only about any parenting and d.

Gf, just haven't made my mind up yet if we're done so haven't closed the door yet. So as you can see it was no ordinary situation with us but if l decide to close the book l'll def' take your tips.

Tbh, l'm not gonna live in hope forever but as yet l just haven't felt right about completely giving up on us either, not yet anyway. But for now l'm doing what l'm doing doors may open or close along the way, just trying to get my bearings atm.