topic Re: Humility and "the good samaritan" in Staying well

Humility and "the good samaritan"

white knight — Mon, 18 Dec 2017 06:37:17 GMT

As a boy, for whatever reason, I used to boast about my exploits. Once I joined the RAAF at 17yo, being the youngest of my squadron, I was out of favour with older men...as they saw my boasting as immature.

So, eventually I got the idea that doing something for no award whatsoever is a great example of humility.

I'm not religious, my old mate is and we sat down a few years ago to watch a movie about a SAINT of humility ST Gemma Galgany. His humility was unhuman like, totally amazing. How can we harness this great human ability of humility.

I suppose I first really adopted some humility once I'd left my ex wife and had my kids with me every second weekend and on holidays. Although paying huge child support, my kids needs and wants came first (as we all do). If they needed more clothing and the child support should pay for it...I purchased it anyway. It simply wasn't worth the arguments. My mentality was that I didn't care how financially well off my ex was. (I should point out that even working 3 jobs she was financially better off on a pension and child support).

So, humility in my opinion can grow as we get older. We can improve ourselves as people as we grow older.

How about xmas? There are countless people serving the homeless, no benefits except their smiling faces or grim faces that underneath the matted hair and the overcoats- appreciate.

This is what is amazing here on this forum. Strangers helping strangers. We've had members come here to talk about their worries then over time spread themselves to helping others that join up. We rarely know if we help people, little feedback....it doesn't matter. That's what passionate humans do- leave a legacy of compassion...love and understanding.

To all those champions out there in cyber world thankyou for being here. You are amazing. for any member out there that answers another members post, even just once, to help out, thankyou for doing so. For the moderators and management that battle all year to make this a better place for new members, thankyou.

(I'm not religious)

The parable of the Good Samaritan is a parable told by Jesus in Luke 10:25–37. It is about a traveler who is stripped of clothing, beaten, and left half dead alongside the road. First a priest and then a Levite comes by, but both avoid the man. Finally, a Samaritan happens upon the traveler and arranges for rent for the traveler in an inn for the night, food and water. The traveler never knew the identity of the "good Samaritan".

Tony WK

Re: Humility and "the good samaritan"

AmaraA — Fri, 24 Mar 2023 09:02:41 GMT

the Verse from the bible you wrote at the end made me cry a little.days before my father passed away from stage 4 liver cancer i was told his living position was homelessness, i never knew this nor found this out until i was eventually called from the hospital informing me that my father had passsed away only 3 days later and that he was begging and asking for me in his final moments 😞 something i have to sadly live with for the rest of my life its an awful feeling. I have these dreams of me assisting to my father aid its like a white light and i get him up from the street in which he is naked and unclothed, i home him and provide food and water too him . its interesting. i was a daddies girl and i love my dad very much. in saying that we hadnt spoken for the last 4 years prior his passing.as he was a alcaholic.i had learnt that when he drank he become abusive.i put up with allot from my father as he spent every day drunk when he was with my mother. and i saw things i wish i never had to see. You cannot reason with a alcaholic i seperated myself from him although i would think about him often if not every day and their where times i would pick up the phone to call him and then hang up, when he answerd i could here he was stumbling his words as he had been drinking , he never told me that he had cancer. so i assumed he was doing ok. but little did i no i was very wrong. living with this kind of guilt in a way is so friggin hard. i miss him so much and i remeber the good times we shared . how is it though u learn so much about some1 when they are gone then when they are here. i think it is needing to know the unknowen what it is that makes you so aware of them personally and who they really where. dont know why i am responding to this but it made me think of my daddy . its been just over 2 years now since he passed away and he presents himself to me spiritually in the form of a monarch butterfly. he was a lost soul my daddy pretty much from birth a bit like me.thanks for sharing ur post

Re: Humility and "the good samaritan"

white knight — Fri, 24 Mar 2023 11:31:53 GMT

An amazing post of yours AmaraA. So honest and emotional, thankyou.

Ask yourself- would your dad want you to feel guilty? Or sad?. No, of course not, then how about fulfilling his wishes? He'd love to know your memories of him are kept in safe keeping inside your golden heart.

You could plant a rose garden in his honour or a tree- I recommend a crepe myrtle.

Please google - beyondblue guilt the tormentor

Beyondblue worry worry worry

I hope you are OK. We care for our members, feel free to reply.

TonyWK

Re: Humility and "the good samaritan"

mmMekitty — Fri, 24 Mar 2023 13:50:44 GMT

Hello AmaraA & TonyWK.

Thanks TonyWK for your discussion.

Thank you too, AmaraA for your response. You put me in mind of my own relationship with my parents as well as other relationships I've had & lost. Like your relationship with yur father, my relationships were difficult & I had lost them, in one way or anthother.

But I'm thinking, years later, maybe I can, in my own mind, make some repairs, make peace with these relationships. They need not be made perfect in my mind. Perhaps, if there is a conversation, that would be enough. Like I had done in one dream I had, talking again to someone who'd ended our friendship. I couldn't quite come to an understanding with her, in my dream, but we spoke. Now, even that feels enough.

I only found out she had died of some sort of cancer afterwards. I found out from my father, who told me in a letter, a very insensitive letter which hurt me far more than he was evidently capable of understanding. That was my last straw with him. My efforts with him came around to me being expected to play the role he had in mind for me.

It's so complicated, I can't explain well here.

I was left with so many unanswered questions. I've had to accept there are questions which will never be answered. Okay, I don't get their answers. Maybe I can answer, as if, or with words I can hold onto.

I'm not sure I'm being clear enough.

It's like the way you, in your dream, went to care for your father, & now he's a monarch butterfly. Those are wonderful ideas to hold onto. I can think, also, when he was calling for you in the hospital, it was because he wanted to tell you he loves you.

As for humility, TonyWK, I hope I find my way here again & have thought something to say about it. I'm most curious about your boasting / humility.

Hugzies to you both

mmMekitty

Re: Humility and "the good samaritan"

white knight — Sat, 25 Mar 2023 05:30:57 GMT

Hi mmKitty

Thankyou for being here. I often refer to "acceptance" as our biggest challenge. For me and no doubt yourself, accepting other people for who they are is harder than we realise. The reason for this is the attitude/character or restrictions of some people. I'll explain.

On MAFS which we watch there is a really nice guy there and he rather temperamental "wife". At a final dinner with others he was asked a question what he thought of her. His answer was really wonderful, full of compliments. Yet she replied nastily "you like me only 56% of the time". My point here is that some people are that reactive/nasty/revengeful/spoilt that they would find it near impossible to have a rewarding, calm, loving relationship. With some people thats why they arent successful with a partner most of their life.

That's why you cant sometimes patch up a relationship with a relative. I dont know how many times I've met a relative, my mother, sister, niece etc at a park or hotel and decided beforehand not to talk much, allow them to vent and say little hoping that will help the chance of reconciliation. It hasnt worked because as soon as I say something neutral like "ok, so do you think we can meet once a year?" I'll get "you dont deserve that after you've done ...." and their memory simply squashes any chance.

For the above reasons I find that moving on although hard is the right thing to do. Last xmas I suffered a split family, I've basically lost my sister and her two nieces over a family dispute that didnt involve me. I'm ok with it, sure it took a few weeks but I'd rather non toxic people in my life.

TonyWK

Re: Humility and "the good samaritan"

Eagle Ray — Sat, 25 Mar 2023 06:29:31 GMT

Dear Tony, Amara and mmMeKitty

Thank you for this discussion. Amara, I just wanted to share with you something that recently happened to me in relation to my mother’s death. I really relate to what you described with your Dad. My Mum suffered all her life from the impacts of trauma and died just over two years ago, about the same time as your Dad. I’d been trying to heal her since a small child, which is of course not meant to be the role of the child who is meant to be cared for by the parent. When she died she was broken-hearted, and this left me broken-hearted, stuck in protracted grief.

But what happened over the past week was I found myself spontaneously going back to when she was dying (I was with her when her heart was failing in late 2020 until the ambulance took her to the hospital). I found this week I was able to go back to then in spirit (this is the best way I can put it) and be with her in the way I wanted to then, including the difficult episodes she had in the hospital. The ambulance officers had told me at the time to wait to come in as she would have tests for a while ( she was not expected to die at that point).

So I had this profound healing this week where I was able to be with her as I wished I was then. This happened after a class I’ve been doing that relates to complex trauma and the class facilitator sang this beautiful healing song. There was so much love and compassion in it that it lifted me to this other place where I was able to heal this terrible pain around my Mum’s death. I think this kind of resolution can happen in dreams too as mmMeKitty describes.

I wanted to share too that after my Dad died he came to me in the form of a butterfly too. Several times in the backyard a butterfly with the same colouring as a monarch butterfly but a smaller species would come close to me. One day it just landed on my foot and stayed there for ages. I think these are signs our loved ones are ok and at peace now. Your Dad is reaching out to you to say everything is ok.

And Tony, in relation to your original post, I wanted to share that I was waiting behind a woman at a cafe recently and she was chatting to the cafe worker. She then turned to me and asked what coffee would I like, and then paid for my coffee. There are kind people who reach out from their heart to us, even people we don’t know and may never see again. It was so lovely.

Re: Humility and "the good samaritan"

mmMekitty — Sat, 25 Mar 2023 10:42:06 GMT

Hi TonyWK & all

After a quick search, it seems there are various ways of defining 'humility', depending upon one's personal perspective.

I am inclined to think it is not what I thought it was when I was young & feeling humiliated by my (ex-)step-mother. No, what she did was to erase my self-esteem, confidence in anything I tried to do, leaving me feeling lower than dirt, useless & worthless. That is not what humility from any perspective is defined as.

Being humble includes being able to accurately assess abilities - no exaggeration, no talking them down either. & also to see where we can improve, being able to recognise we can learn more, be taught more, & we can be open to that.

I also think being humble does not require us to seek or have honours, awards, cudos, grand public recognition of our abilities, skills, achievements. Humble people don't need to jump around waving their arms for attention & shouting how great they are, & don't need other people doing that for them. I agree with that, but with a touch of how I know I'd feel distinctly uncomfortable, way too self-conscious, secretly wanting acknowledgement but not wanting to be the centre of attention, fearing I will make mistakes & be revealed as undeserving. That doesn't sound humble, because recognition of my abilities has become all about me & my ego. Even my refusal to accept an award would be about my feelings & not because I don't think my achievement is as important as everyone else's.

from the definitions I read, ego takes the back seat, & humble people might go & accept an award with the attitude that the people giving the award are doing so to show their appreciation of what the achievement has meant for other people.

I not sure I accept that a humble person can be entirely selfless, given that we cannot be of help to others if we disregard care for ourselves. Humble people have to think of their own needs too.

I don't know if there is a humility test out there, but I doubt I would pass anyway, even though I'm not a prideful, boastful, arrogant or self-centred person. I think that to be a humble person would require a reasonably good sense of self-esteem, not as low as mine is still. Having a low sense of self-esteem means I am watching for when I'm going to make the next mistake & embarrass myself. I understand to be humble means I would be no better or worse than anyone else. I am working on that.

mmMekitty

Re: Humility and "the good samaritan"

white knight — Sun, 26 Mar 2023 08:05:33 GMT

Hi ER

Most of us have ensured financial hardship in one form or another. Once recovered it's a good feeling paying for a stranger or a friend/s.

Mmm kitty, humility can be exercised by "talkers" that leak their good deeds. I say this because those good Samaritans that lack confidence to rely on others to lift them up are still good Samaritans but require others recognition for such deeds, why?

I'm not an expert in that but it is part of their nature, to help others and tell others is less humility and being humble is preferable.

I suppose we can't all be humble. But we can all be good Samaritans. 🙂

TonyWK

Re: Humility and "the good samaritan"

Eagle Ray — Sun, 26 Mar 2023 09:33:41 GMT

I think I’m following the discussion here on humility. I recently read a book called Sensitive is the New Strong. The author, Anita Moorjani, talks about how the ego often gets a bad rap and that some of us actually need to turn up the dial on our ego because we’ve been taught to be selfless. She describes the difference between a healthy ego that protects and fortifies you, and being egocentric which means being self-serving and lacking empathy. If our ego is too small we have difficulty with self-love and taking care of our needs.

She says by combining conscious awareness with a healthy ego we can be at our best, for ourselves and others. So I think it’s possible to have humility and a healthy ego together.

I used to chronically put others’ needs before my own based on my childhood conditioning and thought selflessness was what I was meant to do. This was not good for my well being. I also had trouble believing I was worth much a lot of the time (though I think a buried part of me knew rationally that I wasn’t worthless, even though much of me was convinced otherwise). I’m now learning to value and prioritise myself, but I think as long as you remain grounded and still value and care for others, you are not becoming egocentric and you can have humility.

I think I understand what you mean mmMeKitty about a humble person not being entirely selfless, especially if they are trying to do things for others to get love rather than unconditionally. So we may have been taught to be ‘selfless’ but it’s kind of not entirely if it’s from a needy place. So once the healthy ego is established, perhaps that’s when true humility comes online. A person may have been humble before, in a way that’s a bit unhealthy, but they can become humble in a truly healthy way too, with some life experience and wisdom.

Kristen Neff has a good Ted Talk on self-esteem and self-compassion, and says our society tends to over-value self-esteem where we compare ourselves with others, and suggests healthy self-compassion, just being there for yourself to begin with, is really important. Self-compassion makes it possible for us to truly care for others. With self-esteem we tend to compare and compete, with self-compassion our heart expands to embrace ourselves and others together.

Re: Humility and "the good samaritan"

mmMekitty — Sun, 26 Mar 2023 11:19:13 GMT

Hi TonyWK, ER & everyone

The view I'm leaning towards is that my self-esteem is about how I regard myself, not how I feel in comparison to what others may think of me. My position in society is similarly not measured against the apparent status, high or low, of any other member of society.

My personal sense of worth or value does not depend on any external measures.

I think an ego is required to take a look at oneself. There is no way of getting around that.

I suppose, one way to look at it may be: my PDr is no more or less important to my mental health than I am. Likewise, no one I talk to here on BB is more or less important to my mental health than what I say to myself.

I come a bit unstuck when I read that people who are humble are open to any & all voices & opinions. I think it is natural for humans to gather & cull what we experience, what we learn, making choices/judgements about what we see & hear from all voices everyday. It's impractical to take in everything, & not sift through it to form our own beliefs & opinions, which we will more or less live by.

I will be thinking more about this. I think it may be better if I do not set anything in stone.

(May be too late in the day for me to be open about religion, though, & some other points ov view. which I find thoroughly unpalatable.

Hugzies

mmMekitty

Re: Humility and "the good samaritan"

white knight — Sun, 26 Mar 2023 12:52:11 GMT

Hi all,

Wow, some really good education I've received here. I really like the balance of ego and humility especially to possess a healthy "reasonable " ego in order to act humble.

One of the most humble and considerate people ever was Nelson Mandela yet I've never detected any ego. Knowledge, pride, consideration, forgiveness yes. Then again ego could be invisible in such people.

A fine discussion.

TonyWK

Re: Humility and "the good samaritan"

Eagle Ray — Mon, 27 Mar 2023 06:46:20 GMT

Yes, that’s true of Nelson Mandela. For some pride might be regarded as a healthy form of ego, depending on the definition of ego (when combined with humility). And then there’s pride without humility, which I suppose could be narcissism (unhealthy, rampant ego). Though often under the external presentation of pride the narcissist is often very insecure, so it’s not a deep, genuine, grounded pride like Nelson Mandela.

All these complicated words of the English language!

I sense that:

a) being kind to self and others, and

b) staying grounded

…are probably key fundamentals of being a good human.

I think I understand what you are saying mmMeKitty, that sometimes we will hold different values to others, so there might be some views we cannot accept. And then it’s an acceptance we may not be able to reconcile our perspectives with those of others. We just have to live our best life based on our own values. Sometimes that means letting go of some relationships too, which is better than being ultra-accommodating to someone else’s views. We need to follow in our hearts what we feel is right, healthy and leads to a balanced, peaceful existence.

Re: Humility and "the good samaritan"

white knight — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 00:27:39 GMT

Yes, ER, Re: "We just have to live our best life based on our own values. Sometimes that means letting go of some relationships too, which is better than being ultra-accommodating to someone else’s views." I recall singer Missy Higgins quote "I see relationships as fluid". She was responding to her then gay relationship and later married a guy and had children. I think that "fluid" description is a good approach because it allows you to let go of toxic people regardless of being blood or not. At 53yo my younger sister and I I finally let go of our mother due to her narcissistic triangulation of us, it was a relief to finally make that decision, then for 13 years my sister and I had a sound relationship for the first time in our lives. Sadly last xmas my sister adopted the same triangulation tactics on me, a learned experience from her teenage years, I had to let her go. Those she influenced, her two adult daughters, I'd lose also as their mother demonised me etc. Sad but if you have the view that you strive for a relaxed, long and fruitful life then you must make the hard decisions and limit the inclusion in your life with lovely quality people.

With some people it matters naught that you have a big heart or you're a good Samaritan, you'll be criticised so they can elevate themselves.

TonyWK

Re: Humility and "the good samaritan"

Eagle Ray — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 11:00:16 GMT

Hi Tony

I really feel for you in terms of those relationships as we naturally want to be close with family. But sometimes, as you say, it becomes necessary to go separate ways. Sometimes the legacy of the past still infiltrates the present with certain family members and they may simply stay in that position. If you have moved on from prior family dynamics and others haven’t, there’s often not anything you can do but preserve your own values and well being and go towards what is healing for you - healthy relationships with people on the same page.

I’m having a struggle with a relative at the moment too. I’m going down a particular healing path and it seems to challenge the way she’s always done things and led her to be quite hostile towards me. I’ve had kindness in my heart towards her, so it was initially a shock, but I realised I’m growing in ways she is scared to grow and she’d prefer I didn’t change as it makes her feel insecure. Sometimes as we grow, certain relationships fall away, and I’m learning that that’s ok.

I like the “fluid” description for relationships. We can have a really meaningful relationship with someone for a period of time, then one or both people grow in a different direction. But as we let go of certain relationships space opens up for new connections and experiences. Life is a most interesting flux of events. In fact, someone once told me of an elderly lady whose last words were, “Well, it’s all been most interesting.” I feel like that’s a good reflection on life.

Re: Humility and "the good samaritan"

white knight — Wed, 29 Mar 2023 04:30:38 GMT

Hi ER,

I actually feel most fortunate to having transformed from a fretting individual at a younger age whereby I'd grieve as if my friend/relative had passed away to now when I accept that this is indeed part of life.

In my nieces case I've loved them almost like my own kids as their father was one that paid not child support nor took an interest in their lives. In fact one niece cried saying "you're as close to a father that I've had". Sadly they are "flying monkeys" manipulated individuals by a narcissist (my sister) so they are unaware of the gravity of the situation. Hence I've decided to keep a faint line of communication open so one day they might themselves be the victim and see some light.

I've developed a security boundary now that includes what I deem as unsatisfactory unforgivable behaviour. Once crossed then it is usually the end of the relationship. This self preserving strategy took some time to adopt because guilt developed, or rather the perpetrator behaved in a manner that caused my guilt.

I'd recommend such boundaries to anyone that tries too hard to patch up relationships that are toxic. The "good samaritan " can go about our work on those that appreciate it but self protection is a major move forward in my opinion.

TonyWK