topic To apologise or not to apologise is that the question? in Staying well

To apologise or not to apologise is that the question?

quirkywords — Sat, 10 Jul 2021 23:48:47 GMT

Welcome everyone.

I call myself the queen sorry as I'm always saying sorry whether things are my fault or not .

Someone could tread on my toe and I would say sorry .A friend will be late and I'll say sorry. You get the idea.

I am often being told I say sorry way too much and that could affect my self-esteem..

It is just second nature to say sorry. I am not aware of it until someone points it out.

I thought I know people who never apologize or rarely apologize but no one ever seems to say to them that they should apologise more.

So do you think it is worse to apologise too much or too little ?

I am interested in your personal experiences.

To apologise or not to apologise is that the question?

Guest9337 — Sun, 11 Jul 2021 04:41:48 GMT

g'day quirkywords,

Pretty cool discussion you've opened up, thanks.

I'll start with a joke. Are you saying sorry for saying sorry too much?

I recall watching a movie about Frank Sinatra staying in an Australian hotel back in the 70's. One thing FS said, I dimly recall, was that he would never apologise. Unions got involved, Bob Hawke got involved, it's a true story, check it out - quite an amazing bit of our history.

I suppose that saying sorry is, like many actions, is an optimisation problem. Already you and I have defined the two extremes, always sorry, never being sorry. A good guess is the optimisation is somewhere in the middle hey!

If we say sorry so much that others don't even believe us, could be an issue.

If we never say sorry we may destroy relationships where apologies are required to move on.

If we say sorry at the slightest event, are we even meaning sorry/apology? Could just be like one of those phrases that people say but not feel. Like I'm so hungry I could eat a horse.

I won't say I'm sorry or apologise unless I feel it deeply AND have rationally thought it through... because when I am sorry - I hold myself to restoring the damage done that needs apologies, ie. I commit to change as a healthy act.

To apologise or not to apologise is that the question?

Guest9337 — Sun, 11 Jul 2021 04:50:02 GMT

Upon reflection I've recollected the one place I am quick to apologise, is sport.

I play a non contact sport, so if I accidently bump an opponent, after the rally I might say sorry, but I've already thought that through so can act quick on it - like a gentleman.

To apologise or not to apologise is that the question?

LJpd81 — Sun, 11 Jul 2021 05:56:35 GMT

Yes I say sorry and thank you far too often. I am always saying sorry. You are definitely not alone.

To apologise or not to apologise is that the question?

quirkywords — Sun, 11 Jul 2021 06:43:54 GMT

David

Thanks go your contribution to the discussion.

I feel I say sorry to avoid conflict and just in case.

Sport is an interesting one .

I had close relative who said never apologise never explain because they felt it would be lying to falsely apologise for something that they never did and they always believed they were right!!

To apologise or not to apologise is that the question?

quirkywords — Sun, 11 Jul 2021 06:46:09 GMT

Lip

Do you ever say sorry to keep the peace and avoid conflict?

Thanks for your post.

To apologise or not to apologise is that the question?

Guest9337 — Sun, 11 Jul 2021 07:02:01 GMT

One of the quite old retail industry methods for dealing with an angry customer was to open with "We are sorry."

The argument was that sometimes an apology is enough for the customer to feel satisfaction and continue being a customer.

For retail, back then in 1980's & 1990's, it was simply and openly about keeping a customer coming back into the store. We were even told we could say sorry even if we didn't feel nor believe we were actually at fault.

Just keep the customer coming back, happy.

To apologise or not to apologise is that the question?

quirkywords — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 11:05:08 GMT

David

The customer is always right was around on the 50s or even before.

I think it has always been the mantra of retail customer service.

I think if you show the customer you are listening and understand their problem by saying sorry it helps to stop them bring angry.

To apologise or not to apologise is that the question?

geoff — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 17:24:40 GMT

Hello Quirky, a good question.

If you say sorry to someone when you know you are in the right, then it may be a fear that you are going to lose this friendship, so you say sorry, hoping for a positive response from them.

When you continually keep saying sorry, then what does it mean when you are definitely sorry, does the person believe you, probably not, so does this affect the relationship, probably yes, as honesty and trust are questioned.

Saying sorry to keep the peace and quiet are often said to keep any conflict away, but this can eventually turn against you and make you very careful of what you want to say next.

Best wishes.

Geoff.

To apologise or not to apologise is that the question?

therising — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 20:39:42 GMT

Hi quirkywords

'Sorry' is definitely an interesting one. Can recall analysing this word some time ago when wondering why people say 'I'm sorry for your loss' when someone they know has passed. I suppose it's a matter of 'I'm sorrowful for your loss'. Should add the fact that I love to analyse the hell out of words so as to find a bit more heaven in life. Words can be so potentially depressing, hellish.

Perhaps a lot of us are conditioned into saying sorry, when we're kids, and then be led to wonder 'Why do I say sorry so much?'. It's like some poor kid gets hit by his brother and then yells at his brother before a parent steps in and and says 'Apologise to each other right now!' The kid that got hit tries to explain but is yelled at, 'You heard what I said, say sorry!' What the heck?! How is that fair? As a kid, you accidentally drop something. 'Say sorry'. You might trip over someone's foot who's got their legs stretched out, relaxing in the lounge room. 'Say sorry'. You speak over someone else because you're just so excited to get what's in your head out into the conversation. 'Apologise for being so rude!' As a kid, we can be conditioned into spending half our young life apologising. I suppose, in a way, it becomes about saying sorry for just about everything before you told to say it. Before you know it, you don't even realise you're saying it until people start to raise your consciousness.

Suddenly, people may say 'Why are you apologising?' You say 'I don't know'. 'Why do you say sorry when you don't even mean it (when it holds no meaning)? You say 'I don't know'. 'Why are you saying sorry when it wasn't even your fault?' You say 'I don't know'. I suppose it's a matter of if you go back far enough, to when you were a kid, you'll know.

When my parents were together, my father used to say sorry for just about everything, even to the point where it didn't make sense. It used to drive my mum nuts. When she'd ask him why he's said it, he'd typically say 'I don't know' followed with 'Sorry'. This is where I wish to thank you quirky, for raising my consciousness. I'd never considered before the reasons as to why my dad did and still does this. His mother was known to be a somewhat heartless woman and a cold disciplinarian. His dad was the sensitive parent but died when my father was young. His constant apologising now leads me to feel even greater sorrow for the kid in him.

🙂

To apologise or not to apologise is that the question?

Guest9337 — Tue, 13 Jul 2021 07:12:20 GMT

G'day quirkywords,

I wonder how far back in history the "customer always right", just "say sorry" to keep them happy, ethos goes back into history. You mention the 50's.

Would it be an expression of the Golden rule : Do unto others as you would have them do unto you?

If so that goes way back to early Confucian times, 600 BCE ish.

To apologise or not to apologise is that the question?

Guest9337 — Tue, 13 Jul 2021 07:35:53 GMT

G'day therising,

I just looked up the etymologies of both "sorry" and "apology", very interesting.

Sorry comes from sorrowful just as you have written. So sorry can be just an expression of sorrow, rather than an apology.

Apology is a more formal, coming from a defence about an act.

Merriam Webster dictionary has an interesting webpage about the topic.

When Did 'Apology' Start to Mean "I'm Sorry"? | Merriam-Webster

Also wikipedia has a very interesting page on "non-apology apology".

Apparently these days people say sorry/apology without admitting fault, or being inclined to change/fix the issue.

To apologise or not to apologise is that the question?

Ggrand — Tue, 13 Jul 2021 09:12:36 GMT

Hello Quirky and everyone.....🤗..

I think I’m like you..I have and still do say sorry to people even though I know 100% that I didn’t need to...

I know for me saying sorry to someone..is me trying to protect myself from abuse..anger..being yelled at....I’ve been doing it since as long as I can remember....Sometimes the word sorry did protect me......and sometimes not..

I still do it today...but not automatically...I do think about it beforehand, what if I didn’t say it....what if I did say it....To save any hassles, confrontations and the person making me feel at fault, which isn’t hard for them to do with me....I get confused, want the conversation to end....then making me feel all guilty etc...to me it’s easier to just say sorry...to keep the peace..

Quirky.....my late husband said to me a few time...saying sorry means nothing to him..He never apologised at all...because he was always right...

Take care everyone....

Grandy...

To apologise or not to apologise is that the question?

quirkywords — Tue, 13 Jul 2021 10:51:16 GMT

The rising

Thanks for your detailed and well reasoned reply. I know I say sorry as a reflex and to avoid conflict.
what about people who never apologise because they feel they are always right should they be encouraged to apologise when they are in the wrong.

Geoff

sometimes if one lives with a person who is always right one says sorry to avoid conflict at all cost. The trouble is one feels like a doormat and wonders who they really are.

To apologise or not to apologise is that the question?

quirkywords — Tue, 13 Jul 2021 10:58:19 GMT

David thanks for your contributions to this thread.

I had an ex who after drinking would apologise and then say I brought out the worst in him. That is a Claytons apology.

Grandy I even say sorry when someone says I say sorry too much.

I do it to avoid conflict and if you live with someone like your late husband, and I have, you just say sorry so the person does get angry and swear threaten you.

I think it id a form of gaslighting when people say you said x or did y when you didn’t and you know you didn’t but after a while you doubt yourself.

Thanks everyone for your posts.

To apologise or not to apologise is that the question?

Guest9337 — Tue, 13 Jul 2021 16:20:26 GMT

Hi quirkywords,

Red Pony communications The Claytons apology.

Has a good aussie discussion of that type of apology.

To apologise or not to apologise is that the question?

geoff — Tue, 13 Jul 2021 16:24:09 GMT

Hello Quirky and everyone, my ex hardly ever said she was sorry, there might have been an explanation but sorry wasn't a common word.

I now tell her this and she always says it wasn't true, may be I need to spell it out to her s -o -r -r -y, it doesn't bother me anymore.

Best wishes.

Geoff.

To apologise or not to apologise is that the question?

therising — Tue, 13 Jul 2021 20:20:35 GMT

Hi quirkywords

I believe it should be encouraged for people to become conscious of a mistake, a misdeed, a fault or feeling remorse etc. Depending on the circumstances, how they express this will vary. Could be 'Sorry (I feel sorrow for how I've led you to feel)', 'I apologise (for my error in judgement in this case)', 'This is my fault (maybe one I have not been entirely aware of until now)' and so on.

While someone who says 'Sorry' shows awareness, someone who never admits consciousness in this way is questionable.

🙂

To apologise or not to apologise is that the question?

therising — Tue, 13 Jul 2021 20:26:55 GMT

Hi david'n'goliath

I've come to love looking up the origins of words. Sometimes I find the origins of certain words hold greater meaning than their mutation, into current language. It's a shame how such impacting words have lost their true meaning.

🙂

To apologise or not to apologise is that the question?

Guest9337 — Tue, 13 Jul 2021 20:41:59 GMT

Morning everyone, still dark outside here.

My UncleD had two gins and a smoke during our conversation about sorry/apology, he came at it from a Biblical perspective, stating that the ultimate aim of "sorry" is repentance and forgiveness... So the progression in his position, is..

1. person x does something that harms person y.

2. person y communicates their aggrievement to person x.

3. person x progresses through stages of.

3.1. acknowledging harm of person y. 3.2. communicating sorrowfulness about causing harm to y. 3.3. making apology. 3.4. making right the direct harm and any in-direct harm, if possible. 3.5. aiming to never do the harm again. 6. forgiving oneself for causing the harm.

So that's my version of what he said to me, something in Mathew I recall. I suppose there is much in the Bible about our topic, and that some of that informed Australian Law on the matter.