topic Empathy in Staying well

Empathy

white knight — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 08:34:00 GMT

If we asked people on the street if they had a family member with depression what that persons greatest need was you might get the following responses-

Sympathy
Sleep
Dominance from myself
More medication
More therapy
Theyve just got to snap out of it

However, in general, I would propose that EMPATHY is the most valued quality a carer, family member or friend could possess.

Someone that shows empathy is a listener, they are genuinely concerned and they have a rare ability of having the capacity of “walking in your shoes”. Someone able to do that is rare because being able to extend your kindness to someone with an illness they cannot see, restrictions that aren’t obvious and internal turmoil usually invisible, takes a special human being.

For us that need such empathy the least we can do is return some of it. Carers need support as well and such support can be given even as tokenism by way of a cuppa when they return from work, for example.

Back to the mentally unwell. There are various levels of empathy. In my experience and I could be wrong but the less empathy the more selfish a person can be or they have not acquired the basics in their childhood- to reach out. Regardless of the reason you will not transform a person into an empathetic person with demands nor any other method,

If you have a mental illness be wary of your need for empathy in others. Sadly, you might, like me, reduce your social circle to include only such quality people...

Mixing with people with empathy and reducing contact with those that haven’t got that quality is a form of protection along with a means to be much happier.

What are your major needs from other people?

TonyWK

Empathy

quirkywords — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 09:24:30 GMT

Tony,

aht an intriguing and informative thread.

y problem is the word empathy seems to have changed menaing. I was taught that you could have symoathy with anyone but to have emoathy you must be abele to feel what they have felt.

There so many people that I cant have empathy for as I have never had a child die, I have never experienced a flood and I have never had a partner die. I can listen and offer concern but I cant offer empathy in my understanding of the word as I have not felt what they have.

I am going through a challenge of my own and some people say I understand what you are going through but how can they when they have not experienced what I have.

just my thoughts and others may differ.

my needs from other people

are a good listener

non judgmental

supportive

Quirky

Empathy

white knight — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 10:23:43 GMT

Hi Quirky

I tend to see where you are coming from, but disagree.

In my opinion having empathy has its limits in terms of actually knowing how someone feels. Eg

A WW2 fighter pilot is interviewed in a documentary about his plane being destroyed and he bailed out wounded but survived. He describes his pain, his good fortune in surviving and how he lives with his injuries. His description of the whole story can draw empathy from others.

There would be another group of pilots that flew the same plane in the same war that didn’t get shot down... their understanding of the horror would contain more vision of what the pilot went through but still they would be imagining the parachute event.

Then there is pilots that went through the same event as that first pilot.

All 3 groups can have empathy for that pilot as to what he endured but all 3 would have various levels of knowledge on how it felt. So the knowledge level is varied but the empathy could be the same amount.

Lets return to a mere observer of the documentary, if he/she was to embark on studying all aspects of flying a ww2 aircraft, how to parachute, practice parachuting etc they would have a greater understanding of his experience but their empathy might well remain the same- high.

I see not many levels of empathy, your either empathetic or not, like kind or not, in love or not. But knowledge can be variable based on experience.

But I’m open to change of my views.

TonyWK

That how I see empathy.

Empathy

Elizabeth CP — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 21:59:12 GMT

I think empathy is not completely understanding another's situation. That would be impossible because even if we have the same experience we are different so feel it differently.

Empathy is a genuine desire to understand another person't point of view. This means really trying to imagine what it would be like for the other person. It involves asking appropriate questions to better understand & most importantly listening carefully. An empathetic person is a good listener, non judgemental & they can therefore be supportive as Quirky wanted. An empathetic person knows they don't understand fully but want to understand better.

This is very different to the person who claims to understand exactly how you feel. When someone claims that I shut off because they think they know everything so they don't see a need to listen or understand.

I remember going to a GP years ago to get some time off because i was really struggling due to a situation which had occured. He listened & then shared a personal experience of his own which related. He didn't pretend to understand fully but based on what he shared I felt understood & he normalised my reaction. I had been feeling really bad because I thought I was overreacting. His support & understanding really helped me to cope better & move forward

Empathy

white knight — Thu, 20 Feb 2020 08:57:37 GMT

Hi Elizabeth

That is a good example of how someone can show empathy, for them to give a similar example of how the handled a situation or felt/reacted when a similar situation occurred.

I think we are all on different tracks travelling in the same direction on this so no answer is perfectly true to the meaning of empathy.

So, having said that, what if we labelled it-

to display concern in a manner that attempts to feel what another’s experience is, by various ways to visualise an event or experience a similar event that allows you to judge the effect that experience has had on that person. To be able to assist that person with the insight gained from life experiences.

Can we improve on that? Welcome to try,

TonyWK

Empathy

blondguy — Thu, 20 Feb 2020 09:45:51 GMT

Hi TonyWK

Thankyou for another excellent thread topic..

I always avoid not to 'overthink' anything anymore as it can sometimes invite anxious thoughts...

I have found reducing my already small social circle to include people that have a sincere 'care factor' and genuine empathy for my own mental health issues

Foe me this works....'to display concern in a manner that attempts to feel what another’s experience is'...Thanks for helping me out with this simple yet helpful sentence

Paul

Empathy

white knight — Sat, 22 Feb 2020 02:21:54 GMT

Thankyou blondeguy for your input.

A thought returned to me today. Some years ago my wife (she has depression) had a down period. Her best friend now (but a distant friend at the time) rang her and my wife told her she was in bed and unwell. Her friend came over and did some housework (I was at work) and sat with her an hour chatting about everyday things then left.

I realised that empathy can come in other forms, in this case it didn’t involve talking about her illness.

TonyWK

Empathy

quirkywords — Sat, 22 Feb 2020 05:11:22 GMT

Thanks tony and everyone,

think as I said it depends what you think empathy meansand maybe the menaing has changed.

was taught you could only have empathy if you had felt or experienced the same thing.

You could have sympathy and show kindness and concern.

I feel empathy is used a lot where sympathy is the more appropriate word but I may be just out of touch with semantics!

the word empathy is fats becoming overused and even losing its meaning.

Does it matter what we call it when someone is kind and shows understanding?

I feel the meaning of empathy has changed since my school days and maybe I will have to change as well.

Quirky

Empathy

white knight — Sat, 22 Feb 2020 10:28:58 GMT

Hi quirky

language does change. I mean “gay” now has a sexuality meaning it never had when I was a boy.

The word “empathy “ has only struck a cord as someone without it as opposed to someone with it is vast in terms of treatment of the mentally impaired,

I suppose it is a thorn in my side that some humans choose not to give a little consideration to us.

But I take your point that there is another dimension to this, that empathy can only be possible through experience of the event.

Interesting.

TonyWK

Empathy

Paw Prints — Mon, 02 Mar 2020 08:21:42 GMT

Hi all,

According to the oxford dictionary:

Empathy - Power of projecting ones personality into & so fully comprehending

Sympathy - Participation in feeling, being affected similarly to another by his sensations

Compassion - Pity inclining one to spare or help

My interpretation is that you can show sympathy without needing or trying to understand, whereas empathy requires the ability & the willingness to put yourself into another's shoes & use your own life experiences to try to build a degree of understanding of what the other person is experiencing & how it may be affecting them. I will stress the "degree of understanding" as I believe that as we are all different we all experience things differently.

Paws

Empathy

white knight — Tue, 03 Mar 2020 11:49:48 GMT

Thankyou Paw prints

that is an accurate way to interpret these words.

For example, being ex RAAF, airplane enthusiast and model airplane builder and flyer, I may have more understanding of the difficulty and techniques a ww2 pilot would have bailing out. A fellow pilot that has bailed out would have more empathy (as Quirky pointed out).

TonyWK

Empathy

blondguy — Tue, 03 Mar 2020 12:35:43 GMT

Hello TonyWK

I am not a person that places anyone's thread topic under a 'microscope' especially re 'empathy' yet I appreciate when you mentioned 'to display concern in a manner that attempts to feel what another’s experience is'

I respect everyone's point of view about empathy as we are all different....I just read PawPrints post above and for me it really made sense...for myself and thanks again TonyWK for the topic!

my kindest...Paul

Empathy

quirkywords — Tue, 03 Mar 2020 22:05:42 GMT

Hello everyone,

Tony thanks for sharing your experience on this thread.

Paw prints your words mean a lot to me.

"My interpretation is that you can show sympathy without needing or trying to understand,

"whereas empathy requires the ability & the willingness to put yourself into another's shoes & use your own life experiences to try to build a degree of understanding of what the other person is experiencing & how it may be affecting them."

My problem is where people say I understand what you have been through, are going through and they have no idea at all. I know they mean well.

People who say I cant imagine what you are feeling to me are more honest and are showing true understanding by saying that don't understand but are willing to listen.

I can try to put myself in anothers shoes but I can never understand what it feels like to lose a child.

Just my thoughts and I am finding reading other people's thoughts interesting.

Quirky

Empathy

white knight — Tue, 03 Mar 2020 23:00:28 GMT

Thankyou blondeguy and quirky

i too am finding this interesting, the breakdown of sympathy, compassion and empathy.

In terms of mental illness none of us I believe want sympathy yet a “sympathetic ear” is welcome to me. That attitude only has to last 2-3 minutes when I’m depressed to make me feel I have support yet some people can’t even give that. In fact recently a family member said “we all have to carry our own cross” my answer was swift “so if we could do that we wouldn’t need psychiatrists, doctors nor meds, just carry it internally, how comforting”

The lack of any ATTEMPT to listen, care, understand etc is,in my opinion a true reflection of who I don’t want in my life.

TonyWK

Empathy

white knight — Wed, 11 Mar 2020 11:39:25 GMT

Hi all

I came across this internet entry

”Signs You're a Highly Sensitive Person

You absolutely abhor violence and cruelty of any kind. ...
You're frequently emotionally exhausted from absorbing other people's feelings. ...
Time pressure really rattles you. ...
You withdraw often. ...
You're jumpy. ...
You think deeply. ...
You're a seeker. ...
Sudden, loud noises startle you.
More items...
•
Dec 13, 2019

21 Signs That You're a Highly Sensitive Person (HSP)

More results
What is the difference between an empath and a highly sensitive person?

The Difference Between Empaths and Highly Sensitive People. ... Highly sensitive people are typically introverts whereas empaths can be introverts or extroverts, (though most are introverts). Empaths share a highly sensitive person's love of nature, quiet environments, desire to help others, and a rich inner life.

TonyWK

Empathy

blondguy — Thu, 12 Mar 2020 09:50:30 GMT

Hello TonyWK

I understand everyone has their own point of view re 'Empathy' as Quirky made a point about 'never being able to understand losing a child' and fair enough

Just for myself and having a depressive illness Paws has posted well from the Oxford dictionary with..'Power of projecting ones personality into & so fully comprehending'..and when TonyWK mentioned 'Empaths share a highly sensitive person's love of nature, quiet environments, desire to help others, and a rich inner life'

Its only my humble point of view that having a person that can empathise with my illness is Gold...no matter how minor their experience has been with mental illness

Thanks TonyWK again for the great thread topic 🙂

Paul

Empathy

quirkywords — Thu, 12 Mar 2020 21:46:10 GMT

Greetings all

There is a book called the highly sensitive person , and I could relate to that. All my life people say I am too sensitive but I wonder maybe others are insensitive.

I find the introvert , extrovert definition as I can be both in one day. On the Myers Brigg scale I can be both at different times.

I think having someone who understands a bit of what you have been through. I had a friend say I wont ask you how you are? because they knew I would say I am fine when I was not.

Also someone who doesn't try to fix you, and give advice, I find that is showing empathy.

I have noticed that people who are empathic don't need to keep telling everyone how much empathy they have as it is obvious.

Quirky

Thanks Tony for this thread.

Empathy

White_Rose — Thu, 12 Mar 2020 22:51:45 GMT

Hello Everyone

Good topic Tony. It certainly makes us think about what we do and say.

I like your example about your wife and her friend. I believe the friend was being an empath by recognising your wife needed company but not overwhelming her with questions and fatal comments like "I understand where you're at", or "I know what you mean". Talking about everyday matters can help a depressed person focus on a very different topic. I think recognition of your wife's need shows empathy and most certainly compassion and sensitivity. These are rare qualities so I can see why your wife would want her as a friend.

Where someone wants to talk about a topic it's showing empathy by allowing that person to speak freely, perhaps asking a few questions but only a few and only for clarification. We talk about walking in another's shoes and this does help to empathise with another, but it only takes people so far. In the end we can acknowledge support for our family and friends but the person concerned must make the journey. I think that's the hardest part, wanting so much to save the other person from pain but not able to do this.

Just one more category. We area society that in general does not like to talk about mental health with the consequence it is hard to do so. I believe many people would like to listen to us etc but lack the courage. It is courage to walk with someone and more so not to tell them what to do. By making these gestures the listener is showing respect to the person with mental illness and this is a key ingredient.

Mary