topic What can men do to help women feel safe? in Staying well

What can men do to help women feel safe?

james1 — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 08:19:55 GMT

Hello everyone,

I just read an interesting article and have also recently watched a controversial show which got me thinking: what can men do to help women feel safe?

I would like to think that most if not all people here want a society where women do not feel like they are at risk. The situations that come to mind for me are walking through a dark area, being at a party and wanting to have a drink, leaving a drink to go to the loo, having a stranger talk to you, being offered a lift, among countless others.

I am asking because there have been many times where I have this massive umbrella (because I lose small ones) and I want to offer to share it with someone, but then I wonder if they'll think I'm creepy and be put off by that. Or if I'm driving my car and someone is running in torrential rain, and I want to give them a lift, but that is creepy. Or if I'm walking behind a lady in a dark alley, and so I stop walking and wait until I'm not making scary footsteps behind her.

Somehow by being a guy, I feel like my presence can be a threat so I try to avoid that as much as possible. So I just want to put it out to everyone: what can men do to help women feel safer? Is there even anything we can do (aside from the obvious don't do bad things)?

What can men do to help women feel safe?

blondguy — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 09:16:39 GMT

Hi James1

An excellent topic James! This is a difficult one, as when we are willing to provide support our actions may be misconstrued as creepy or sleazy....This is sad as we have natural protective instincts to keep women safe yet sometimes we are tarred with the same brush as the few males that cross the line

I will keep showing my respect and courtesy to women whenever its possible

My kind thoughts

Paul

What can men do to help women feel safe?

J-J — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 09:32:48 GMT

Very few gentlemen left in the world and James is one of them.

As a woman, if I'm at a party and we somewhat know each other, it would be nice if you offered to walk me to my car.

However, if it's in the middle of heavy downpour I would not feel comfortable getting into your car if I didn't know you.

It's hard to be either sex nowadays! What does a killer or worse look like? The most frightening monster looks normal, a woman is more frighten of homeless men than some average looking bloke.

I personally don't go out at night unless I'm with a friend, it's not safe anymore.

Thank you for offering this topic for us to think about

What can men do to help women feel safe?

romantic_thi3f — Wed, 20 Jun 2018 02:06:24 GMT

Hi James,

Thanks for your post. This is so lovely to read and I really appreciate that you’re asking this.

As a woman though, I don’t think that I can give you a clear cut answer (sorry!).

The gesture of offering an umbrella can be perceived in so many different ways - anything from creepy to chivalrous. Ultimately it depends on their own experiences as to what they might think. For me personally, it would be unexpected but hugely appreciated! Although I might be too tall to accept it 😛

Personally, I’ve lived in the country and the city and there’s many things I do automatically - like holding my keys in my hand should I need to use them, or avoiding being alone in the dark. It’s unfortunate that we have to do this - but ultimately it’s not something that can change overnight.

I think that it’s probably easy to overthink things - and there’s always the potential of being creepy while trying not to be creepy - like for example if you were just standing there waiting for me to move far enough ahead I’d be more concerned then if you just happened to be a few steps behind. The irony I know!

I’m not sure how helpful any of this is! But hopefully it gives you something to think about.

Oh and sidenote: I stumbled across this article that gave me a giggle - https://medium.com/@annevictoriaclark/the-rock-test-a-hack-for-men-who-dont-want-to-be-accused-of-sexual-harassment-73c45e0b49af While it’s about sexual harassment I think it applies to everything - including helping people feel comfortable!

What can men do to help women feel safe?

james1 — Thu, 21 Jun 2018 01:31:54 GMT

Hi Paul, thanks for your comment. It's interesting that you talk about a protective instinct. I sometimes worry that my wanting to protect may come across as a sense of ownership. I guess it's a fine balance and perhaps has no clear answer. I've been yelled at for opening a door, and yelled at for not opening a door, and so I get confused about do I offer to walk you to the car, or do I not?

Hello J-J, thank you. What you said makes sense. I once offered this old lady to drive her car to the place she needed to go. She stopped to ask for directions and clearly wasn't going to get there on her own. So I drove her there, we had a nice chat, then I walked back to where I was and went home. My mother yelled at me because I was putting myself at risk. I found that funny, because if anything, I thought this old lady would be more at risk of me being a creep! Of course, she could've had someone in the back of the car, she could've had a gun...but at the time, I felt safe and I probably felt safer than she did.

Hello romantic_thi3f, haha if you are tall, there would be no chance of me offering my umbrella except to give it to you outright. I am definitely on the shorter side! But yes, it seems like there is not really a 'solution' to this. With friends it is certainly easier. With complete strangers...I dunno.

I have once walked past a woman at about 1AM who seemed to have a guy following her. I was really uneasy about that guy, but maybe that's just prejudice against hoodies. I needed to cross the road but unfortunately, she crossed the road, then he crossed the road. So I just kept walking forward and crossed later. I didn't really know what to do - do I stop and look back to see if he is following her? Do I just keep walking and hope I don't have to read something in the news?

I know we can't help everybody, but it's situations like that which make me want to help but perhaps I can't?

Anyway, more light-hearted, that article was great! I actually shared that with a few of my friends as my own little social experiment, and it was interesting to see the different responses from the males (didn't know what to say) versus the females (had a laugh)!

What can men do to help women feel safe?

Elizabeth CP — Thu, 21 Jun 2018 02:56:38 GMT

I think you aren't responsible for other misconceptions!! Years ago I sensed intense dislike from a work colleague which made life very difficult. The more i tried the worse the situation grew. Eventually I found out I reminded her of someone who treated her really badly so just seeing me triggered an intense reaction. It had nothing to do with me or my behaviour. Once I realised that I could cope.

Some women have been so badly treated by a man or men in the past that anything you do could trigger intense fear & negative reactions. This is not about you but her past.I believe you need to trust your instincts treating women with respect & doing this with confidence. If you are rejected that is their loss & due to their own problems not you. Being overly apologetic may be seen as being creepy trying to do something underhanded whereas most people would see you as being respectful if you act confidently. This applies particularly to hanging back to avoid following someone.

What can men do to help women feel safe?

james1 — Thu, 21 Jun 2018 03:54:51 GMT

Hello Elizabeth CP,

It's certainly true that there are many residual issues from previous abuse and it's very sad that the abuse can lead to mistrust of men in general.

I understand where you are coming from in terms of acting confidently, but even that is only going to be helpful sometimes I think. Perhaps there is really no win-win case if I am following someone who has had a bad experience. In the past, I've really tried everything and it always seems to garner suspicion. Even walking to the other side of the road and just completely minding my own business.

Hmm...thanks for the comments everyone. It's been helpful for me. It sounds like the best conscious act for men individually is to talk to other men and call out bad behaviour, check in with female friends and encourage better systematic safety mechanisms like better lit streets and more effective laws. Going beyond this, while it would be nice in an ideal world, just seems to be too easily misconstrued which is a bit sad.

What can men do to help women feel safe?

Elizabeth CP — Thu, 21 Jun 2018 08:51:12 GMT

As you say you have no control on what others think particularly if they have had a bad experience in the past but they are the exception. It would be a shame if those few influenced how you acted in general.

As women we need good men to set an example to the others. I certainly appreciate men who treat me with respect. Offering a women a seat, opening doors etc are appreciated by most. If they decline that is their choice but doesn't change the fact you acted as a gentleman. I remember falling & a man offered to assist. I declined feeling very embarrassed & thinking I could get up on my own but ended up requiring help from someone else. I felt really bad for the first man because I was worried he might have felt hurt by my rejection when in reality I appreciated his offer.

With women you know it is easier because you get to know what they prefer. For example my husband doesn't open my car door because I'm too impatient but he will open the door to the house particularly if I have my hands full of shopping. It is those little acts of kindness & consideration that help.

What can men do to help women feel safe?

Croix — Thu, 21 Jun 2018 10:02:22 GMT

Dear James~

If more in society felt the good natured concern you do then there would not be half the problems there are. Plus as you say more safety measures such as lighting will help.

As oyu have said there is no fixed answer about offering help, you would behave differently with someone who knows you as against someone who did not.

One thing one does need taking into account is the difference between someone being merely uncomfortable and in genuine danger or great distress. Under such circumstances the problem of being misunderstood does tend to vanish, thought of course other practical problems may be there instead.

If the person in the hoodie committed an assault then your intervention (assuming you could do so in safety) would be appreciated. Similarly if hte rain caused a flood and someone was being swept away you could make firm contact to effect a rescue and be thanked.

On the matter of picking up hitchhikers, I never so so, and this is as much for my protection as anything else.

Croix

What can men do to help women feel safe?

romantic_thi3f — Thu, 21 Jun 2018 23:40:26 GMT

Hi James!

Hah! Well you can keep the umbrella because I love the rain anyway! But that’s such a lovely gesture.

That’s a really interesting situation - and to me it seems so different to offering an umbrella or a lift - you were genuinely concerned about her safety.
Having said that though - there was every possibility the guy happened to be going to same way and happened to have a hoodie because he was cold!

I think maybe it would help to just mentally list all the options in your head - yes you can keep walking, yes you can stop. Which of those options have less cons and more pros?
The other option could be to ask ‘hey, I saw that guy back there - did you want me to walk with you?’ That way the ball can be in her court rather than you feeling responsible.

Anyway I’m not sure how helpful this has been. It’s tricky. Your intentions are good but yet the way we’re going to perceive it is just so different and sometimes a bit unpredictable. You could offer 10 woman to walk to their car and I imagine they’d all react so differently. But at the end of the day - if you feel more comfortable offering (knowing some might not appreciate it) rather than not - then it’s worth doing.

Oh, and I’m so glad you liked the article! That sounds like a really interesting experiment 🙂

What can men do to help women feel safe?

Elizabeth CP — Fri, 22 Jun 2018 10:23:03 GMT

I'd like to share an experience when a stranger helped me feel safe in the hope it will inspire the men reading this to keep doing what they can to help others rather than giving up because some women might not appreciate it

I was hiking with my husband when my husband started to collapse. I had to physically assist him back down the mountain to our car. A family approached & I told them to go ahead as we were slow. The husband sent his wife & children ahead & stayed back with us. He offered to help but even when I declined he stayed close walking ahead but turning back to watch us to ensure we were OK. When I started to stumble due to exhaustion he was there to steady me. By the time I got back to the car I was exhausted & can't remember if I thanked him but I often think back &wish I could tell him how grateful I was. Just knowing he was there watching out for me & available to get extra help if things got any worse helped me feel safer.

What can men do to help women feel safe?

Quercus — Fri, 22 Jun 2018 14:29:07 GMT

Hi James and all 😊

What an interesting thread. I find it curious to see what a variety of feelings everyone has.

I'm not very good at social situations so my "go tos" have always been...

1. If unsure go with what you feel is polite.

2. If unsure... Ask.

Take the bloke in the hoodie following the girl. If I felt safe to do so I'd probably have gone and talked to him. I've done this before when I felt uncomfortable. Basically I've seen the person's face. They're less likely to do anything if you can ID them. Paranoid much? But it worked. When I worked in retail a bloke would always wait to be served by me. Bit by bit he creeped me out. Mentioned he knew the way I walked home. Knew the entrance I came into the shop. So one day I lied. I told him I had jammed the till somehow and would he mind using card? Then I commented on his name. I had his name. He never came back again. Paranoia much?

Anyhow. Asking works for me. If someone gets angry at my polite default I brush it off and play the country card "Oh I'm sorry I was trying to be polite and now I seem like a jerk. I'll get used to city manners someday!". It's true enough anyway.

However... Being a woman I think I have different experiences to your own. I am trusted because of my gender I suspect.

I've driven strangers before but must admit I'm overcautious because I have kids in the car to protect. If someone is hitchhiking forget it. But elderly people walking home with shopping yes and women with prams at bus stops when I have a car seat free. Noone really blinks at the offer for some reason.

Once I drove local boy who had a huge walk to his street and looked exhausted home. He was wary (good kid!) until the kids asked him who he was and if he liked Paw Patrol. If I was male he wouldn't have accepted the lift.

I've given strangers medication from my handbag which they've taken without thought. Just panadol and the like. But it always amazes me.

Sometimes I wonder why people trust me? I'm the sort a stranger will pour their woes to at the bus stop. Is that a gender thing or a me thing? Who knows.

Sorry. New meds tonight. I'm waffling. Good thread, thanks 😊

What can men do to help women feel safe?

Quercus — Fri, 22 Jun 2018 14:43:18 GMT

Oh! I forgot the weirdest one!

Two little kids younger than mine (under 3 I think) were out on the road at the top of our street. No adult. Cars!!

I stopped the car and left hubby and the kids and took both of them to the front door. Rang bell. Yelled. No reply. The kids were hanging off me and said dad and step mum were out back. I told the kids to go get them. Still no parents!

No way in hell I was leaving. It was either go in the house illegally or call the cops. So I went in. Rather littlest dragged me in. In the lounge finally parents arrive. I thought I was going to cop it.

A cruisy hello (where they bloody high or something!?!). I freaked out and started telling them off haha. "I live at number ... And it's not ok for kids this little to be on the road alone blah blah blah". Meanwhile retreating to where hubby (who was royally peeved) could see me.

Not a word! I would have done my nut at a stranger letting themselves into my house. Nowdays men can't even play in the park with their own kids without getting wierd looks and they were fine with this? I concluded stoned. Who cares. At least they locked the fly wire!!

Hmmm. Think this is more waffle. Sorry.

What can men do to help women feel safe?

romantic_thi3f — Thu, 28 Jun 2018 00:13:51 GMT

Hi!

Elizabeth CP - I loved reading your experience; that’s so lovely!

It does remind me a little of all of the lovely strangers (who I’ve never known the names too) that have helped me out when I’ve had falls and what not. A million opportunities to run away with my handbag and instead they steady me and walk me off the road. People can be so kind!

Quercus - you waffle on! That’s what these forums are for!

I’m totally going to steal your advice about looking them in the eyes and using their name - that makes total sense that it worked since it’s so confrontational! Hard to hide behind a hoodie if people are taking a mental photo of what you look like!

Also feels kind of ironic since people joke I’m from the country when I’m polite - apparently being polite is more of a country thing then a city thing? Where as for you vice versa? 😛 I also love how kind you are to random people! We need more of you!

What can men do to help women feel safe?

Quercus — Sun, 01 Jul 2018 00:50:15 GMT

Hi James and RT and everyone reading.

RT thanks for your kind reply. I'm sorry I took a bit of a detour on James' thread and killed the conversation.

I had a question about your initial question James if that is ok? Why do you feel it is your responsibility as a man to seek out ways to make women feel safe? Isn't that exhausting?

Nat

What can men do to help women feel safe?

james1 — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 01:24:18 GMT

Hello Nat,

Mhmm I don't feel like it is my responsibility.

I hear all these terrible stories and statistics about gendered violence and hear things like, "I can't trust any man" and "all men are the same", so I wanted to ask. We seem to be in such a bad spot with how men and women relate, it was more a hopeful question to see if there was a way to improve it.

It is hard for me to be painted by the same brush as rapists and perpetrators of domestic violence and intimidation simply because I am male and am walking behind someone who was raped. But if I speak honestly, I do think that is the 'price' I pay for being male. Thankfully for me, it is far less than the 'price' most women pay for being female.

So I wanted to hear how women think and feel. I prefer action over inaction but perhaps in this case, there is no action that I can take for women in general to help the situation. It certainly sounds like - and I spoke to my own partner about it yesterday - there is nothing men can do except be the best friend, partner, father to the people in their lives, and listen to the stories and acknowledge their experiences.

James

What can men do to help women feel safe?

HamSolo01 — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 03:58:05 GMT

Hey James and Company.

I guess the question is: How do we avoid tarring good intentions of the many with the bad intentions of the few?

I have no idea personally. I know that there have been instances in the past where I've been chivalrous to a woman, like offering a seat or opening a door - but not because she was a woman. If she has her hands full and needs the door propped open or is of "an elderly disposition" then I offer the seat up for them. Perhaps my actions were perceived as chivalrous but my intention is not to be chivalrous? I can't quite recall instance where I have offered or done something because there was a woman present and I felt she needed my help because she was a woman. The best example that comes close would be getting on or off a bus or a train. Do I let the lady go out first? Maybe. Usually if she is old, because I know there is a generational gap there and it's social etiquette. If she was younger? Probably not.

I generally don't know how to be chivalrous without being condescending. Having said that, I try to be more chivalrous in conversations I have with girls, especially if there are many people in the conversation. If I cut across them, I will then apologise and say that I cut them off. Or I will stop as soon as i realise and then allow them to continue. Basically just being courteous.

In terms of whether or not a girl feels like I am being condescending or feels endangered by my presence? I simply can't know. So I can't make my choices based on the potential for someone to feel hurt by my presence. At the end of the day I will do what I do because I know I'm not an abuser. If my actions get miscontrued i will happily apologise but I can't simply change the way I get to a place (ie avoid an alleyway) or wait until a girl has walked down a street and then wait until she is gone. That's not how society works.

I think weak men are the real threat tbh. They are the ones that abuse women and use violence. They are the threat to women. It's got nothing to do with me.

Quick story: I was dropping my mum off at her work one day and the car behind me was tailgating me and he jumped out and started yelling all sorts of abuse towards her. She told me to drive off because of my safety, insisting that she put herself first. I was angry at her because she put herself in harm's way for me. Her justification for doing what she did was because the guy's appearance was respectable. Which is totally not the point. I think mum saw my point.

What can men do to help women feel safe?

Elizabeth CP — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 10:53:00 GMT

I think the paragraph stating I will do what I do because I know I'm not an abuser. is correct. Trying to second guess what others think will just send you crazy & achieve nothing. I also agree that it is weak men who are the problem. Not necessarily physically weak!!! I thing real men have always been wanting to help & protect others. Even in caveman days the men protected the clan from dangerous animals & went out to catch animals to feed the clan. I remember my dad always looking out for others particularly anyone who was vulnerable. Even today years after he died people talk about the help & support he gave them. He was never over protective or smothering.

As James said men can be the best friend, partner, father to the people in their lives, and listen to the stories and acknowledge their experiences. When good men live by their values treating all with respect they will set an example to others & make everyone around them including women feel safer in my opinion. Don't let the few bad apples spoil it for everyone.

What can men do to help women feel safe?

Quercus — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 14:47:45 GMT

Thanks James for your reply. I wasn't really sure in myself what I was asking until I saw this that you wrote...

there is nothing men can do except be the best friend, partner, father to the people in their lives, and listen to the stories and acknowledge their experiences

I think between yourself, Mitch and Elizabeth you've helped me understand what I was feeling.

I was confused.

You've done nothing wrong. And yet you want to know how to help. This threw me I think.

Because like you wrote.... There is nothing you can do but be the man you choose to be in the context of your own relationships. It is not your fault other men choose to do horrible things.

I think the best way men can help is by influencing other men. Like Elizabeth wrote about her father being a man with solid values. Others respect this. Young men need good male role models like this early in life.

Mitch your story about your Mum made me smile. Some men are violent jerks but women do learn ways to manage this alone. I think your Mum made the right choice. I would have done this too. Sometimes faced with another male 'protector' angry men get more aggressive. I think your Mum made the smart choice to protect you by allowing the jerk to abuse her and vent his anger somewhere. Not good I know but nothing most women wouldn't have experienced.

I've gone off on a tangent again I'm sorry. My point was meant to be that you James and most other men are not at fault. I like the idea of you just living the way that fits your values. It does help if you encourage the same values in the men that you impact along your way.

Thanks for tollerating me waffling.

What can men do to help women feel safe?

White_Rose — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 21:19:59 GMT

Nat waffling? Surely not. 😊

Interesting thread James. I have never thought of men consciously looking out for women so this thread has been something of an eye opener. I have huge trust problems about men which I feel sure any man who speaks to me for any reason quite probably picks up on. And it is sad especially for social situations where I am unlikely to see this man again.

Having said this I will give you this story. I was in my car, stopped and was hit by the car behind me. No, not the accident at the beginning of the year, a different occasion. We both drove our cars off the road as we were causing a traffic jam. I got out of my car as did the male driver. I was shaking as much from unrelated events as the accident. We started to talk and I fell apart. This man put his arms around me and just held me.

In retrospect I suppose this could have been a problem but he simply held me until I recovered. That was a hugely brave act on his part because of potential problems. I was amazed I allowed this and felt safe. I have no idea why I allowed this man to hold me but it helped. So thank you to this man whose name I have never known. We went our separate ways. I am an older woman so maybe I thought this would protect me but from stories in the press it seems age is not a deterrent.

Why should a few men (relatively) dictate the way the majority behave? I like to think I am treated with respect because I am a person rather than a women. Sometimes I get annoyed because a man will make an elaborate gesture towards me with a comment he is doing this because I am a women. This to me is far more offensive and very patronising. Ham Solo has expressed my thoughts very well.

When I get off a train at some stations I have difficulty because the train step is much higher than the platform. This is a situation where being offered a steady arm would be appreciated as I have nearly been pushed over by people in a hurry to get off the train. So horses for courses.

Thanks for the opportunity James.

Mary