topic Carrying our own cross in Staying well

Carrying our own cross

white knight — Tue, 26 Dec 2017 01:35:06 GMT

My ex brother in law told me many years ago "you JUST have to carrying your own cross"

That was during a period of dwelling on a serious back injury and struggling with anxiety and depression. He had chronic rheumatoid arthritis and although in much pain...never complained. Why the contrast?

Well we can assume some people have different pain thresholds. The other factor is we cant accept the major changes in our lives of such huge negatives.

When someone tells you to "carry your own cross" it can be hurtful but if we have the better attitude we should consider the possibility that they are right, that they have a point to make.

Having a back injury or any other injuries can effect every minute of your day, even simply sitting. So there is no escaping it. However if we continually moan about it, it can effect our relationships. Carrying our own cross means- realising other people have their own challenges in life, might be concealing them or if not, have a limited ability to withstand listening to others problems.

There is no better example than xmas lunch. All people expect that arriving for a family gathering, to catch up with friends and family is going to be happy. Its exciting and rewarding, quality time. The last thing anyone wants is to endure people complaining about anything.

The sadness we personally endure or the pain should be concealed unless asked IMO, once asked thank the person for asking, give a brief reply and change the subject maybe to their issues.

Such carrying of your own cross for some doesnt come naturally, as in my case. I had to learn that wearing a happy mask to conceal my problems/pain sounds unfair, fake etc but it is to allow for others to enjoy their time in a festive mood. People can be kind and considerate and still cant put up with too much of a depressing mood from someone.

Sadly but true, there is a time and a place for everything...even dumping onto others our illnesses. We should keep it minimal and allow others to enjoy their time.

Thats an opinion, do you agree?

Tony WK

Carrying our own cross

Sad_Mushroom — Tue, 26 Dec 2017 21:13:07 GMT

Hi Tony,

Yup I agree.

I know that I am able to carry my own cross so, to me, it's more important to be there for those that can't.

Some people struggle and cannot cope and I've always thought I was lucky because I could. There have been times in my life when I thought I would lose the plot and not 'come out' the other end but somehow I've always managed. Each time it just made me stronger.

Instead of concerning myself with what I had suffered I relished in the thought that I'd beat it. Even a small win is still a win.

I hurt my neck many years ago and was bedridden. When I began to walk again my kids took me out to dinner. I still did not have use of my arms so my sons had to cut up my food and feed me. Little buggers sat there in the restaurant, food on the fork, zooming it around and saying "zoom zoom, open up mummy, the plane is coming" then they'd stick the fork in my mouth. Laughing their heads off! Every time I'd try to tell them to stop it, they'd stick another fork full of food in my mouth. I sat there spluttering and trying to give them "the look" (You know that look parents give their kids when it's inappropriate to yell at them?) That just made them laugh harder.

For me at that time my MI was a blessing. My brain just could not understand the seriousness of what had happened so I wasn't scared. I had very little pain as my brain was not processing it. I was never bored as the little voices in my head were full of ideas on what I would do when I got better. I NEVER once thought I would not get better, even when doctors were telling me I would not get much better.

Today I load the truck at work. I'm a distance runner and can lift weights with my sons.

Some days our cross is only as heavy as we allow it to be. I carry my own cross because I make it out of paper now instead of lead. Mine used to be made from lead but I've learnt to take it easy on myself so I can help others carry theirs, until they too can make theirs from paper.

Carrying our own cross

Elizabeth CP — Tue, 26 Dec 2017 21:45:55 GMT

I've been thinking about what you said. Your comment there is a time and a place for everything..is true. As SM illustrates we are all different & react differently even to similar circumstances so I think it is important not to compare yourself with others or feel bad because we aren't managing as well as someone else. As far as pain is concerned I become quiet when in severe pain &will not talk about it. This is not about being strong or bearing my cross it is just that it takes every bit of mental energy to cope with severe pain that I am unable to express how I am feeling.

As far as sharing with others we need to be careful who we share with & when. With some people if I think they might be struggling when they say they are fine I will ask 'How are you really feeling?' This gives them a clue that I am willing to listen if they want to share their feelings. Often these same people will do the same back to me when they have time to listen or may say I'm busy I'd like to talk another time thus giving a clue that now is not the time to vent.

I remember the christmas after my dad died really struggling to keep a happy face on. I didn't want to spoil things for everyone else so I excused myself & left the table to find a place on my own to sit & cry. My brother joined me later leaving our spouses to supervise the kids & make sure they were enjoying themselves while we cried & shared our feelings.

Carrying our own cross

Doolhof — Tue, 26 Dec 2017 22:08:12 GMT

Hi Tony,

Yes, it can be a balancing act, knowing when to share and when to hold back. I would rather a person share though than to find out later on they had done something horrible. Even if it was Christmas.

If a person asks me how I am and I feel like they really want to know, I will tell them, then try and find the positives in life as well. I like to end with a laugh and a bit of hope.

Hi SM,

Thanks for your encouraging words about turning your "cross from lead to paper". Some days I think of my cross as being made from impenetrable concrete, loaded up with unexploded bombs, dragging a huge anchor and chain...no wonder I feel exhausted some days!

Hi Elizabeth,

I like your points as well. We are all individual and our pains are our own, mental, physical, emotional, spiritual or what ever. Sometimes a good cry helps to release some of the sadness, can be healing and beneficial.

For each of us "Carrying our cross" can mean very different things.

Another interesting topic, thanks Tony!

Carrying our own cross

bindi-QLD — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 01:28:00 GMT

I'm a very sympathetic person and my Dad wore away 3 of his lower back disks in his prime years, so I am especially sympathetic to back pain. He didn't `moan' but couldn't hide his suffering. Partly because he couldn't walk for a year, and he had to do a lot of exercises for the rest of his life to regain his ability to stand and walk. As a girl, I loved helping him. Anything I could do, was not a problem.

This thread speaks to me though. I dislike a certain behaviour which I call `playing the victim'. Some people are always looking for attention and sympathy instead of solving their own problems. They can be very selfish and play the victim to keep everyone around them focused on them. If you want to talk about whats going on with you, they carefully ignore it, and change the subject to how much more of a victim they are than you. I guess its attention seeking behaviour. I probably dislike it because I've fallen for it a lot, and felt manipulated over time. If someone has no interest in solving their problems, I tend to back away these days.

So yes, in that respect I agree with you Tony. Good thread.

Carrying our own cross

Elizabeth CP — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 04:23:19 GMT

I think Bindi hit the nail on the head. Helping people who really need it whether practically or emotionally feels good particularly when appreciated rather than taken for granted. I remember a friend who had helped us previously asked for advice. I was very happy to help. Since that time each of us have had times as both the giver & the receiver of assistance. Sometimes it has been a listening ear other times more practical help. Never have either of us felt taken advantage of.

In contrast I have had people expect help but then take advantage of me. Others expect everyone to listen to them but never listen to anyone else. They leave you feeling very uncomfortable.

Carrying our own cross

white knight — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 12:28:49 GMT

Hi all,

Each reply has been inspiring and so interesting, thankyou.

I too have been gullible more so in the past, and helped then taken advantage of. Though, better to have that happen once in 10 and help the other 9.

Sm, I'm in awe also of your lead and paper analogy.

Carrying our own cross

Sad_Mushroom — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 06:44:47 GMT

Hi all,

I too am very aware of those that "play the victim" and I feel sorry for those people. It is frustrating generally but when I think of the 'why' behind it, it makes me sad for them. To think there are people whose only self-worth and self-value is gained by making others feel sorry for them. Needing to 'play the victim' must have it's own MH issues behind it.

Those are the people who make their cross from lead. Repeating the same miserable stories over and over to seek attention must impact on their own MH and at some point convince them that they really are suffering badly. Instead of enjoying what could be a full good life they get stuck in the revolving door of seeking attention and self-pity. How sad!

What I have noticed is others tend to get fed up with the constant drama and sad whinging and try to avoid the "victim player" which only leaves them feeling left out and miserable.

Dools, my cross used to weigh me down. I found it's like packing a suitcase to go on holidays. Once you have that cross you tend to keep "packing stuff" in there without realising you can "take stuff out". Of course, we need 50 pairs of undies for an 8-day trip, just in case something goes wrong! I began by thinking I'll pack 3 pairs of undies and buy new ones if I need them. Who really needs undies anyway? LOL There are always things we CAN unload from our cross. I think sometimes we have had them for so long we get scared to chuck them out. It's like chucking out a part of ourselves and what makes us who we are.

bindi, you only fall for the 'victim players' because you care. In life, we all get manipulated and fooled and it sucks big time but that is what makes us wiser and stronger. I have been manipulated many times and I thank every one of those people. I am now much wiser and much stronger as a person. I do feel cheated but a little bit of humility won't do me any harm.

Elizabeth, as always you have covered just about every aspect. Being able to see all sides and have solid worthy input on each and every aspect never seems to escape you. I look for your name on threads and enjoy your ideas and suggestions.

LOL Tony, this is your thread and I feel like I just pushed my way in and carried on with my own say. Sorry but this topic is energizing and certainly gets the brain doing stretches and star jumps. Thank you for starting it.

Carrying our own cross

white knight — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 22:44:35 GMT

Hi SM

Noo problem, whatever direction a thread goes is fine, a natural course.

Im very positive but thanking someone that manipulates me I can't go that far. Likely because my mother was a master at being a tyrant and manipulation was one such weapon.

Those playing the victim is a fine line to those needing attention because they have less than adequate mental strength imo.

The first says things based on placing guilt on othets. They have little regard for others having issues of their own. This person refuses to carry their own cross as it works against their objective. They are often an emotional game player.

The second one seeks attention because they more genuinely need help and support. This person strives to carry their own cross but struggles.

Just my take on it.

Tony WK

Carrying our own cross

Sad_Mushroom — Sat, 30 Dec 2017 01:02:21 GMT

Hi Tony and all,

When I began volunteering at the food relief centre (soup kitchen) it was to help those in need. I was in need but felt I had the strength to help those that had run out of strength. Imagine my horror after a few weeks while walking to work to start peeling veggies, cooking and cleaning (with my 3yo in tow) when as I pass the local pub a bunch of blokes are yelling out saying hello and asking me what was for lunch. These people were regulars at the centre. They would turn up right on lunchtime and leave straight after. Back to the pub.

I realised I wasn't helping them. All the centre was doing was providing meals each day for those people, so they could spend their own money in the pub! I almost quit. I felt like I was being used.

I began attending the committee meetings and looking into the facts and the bottom line of it was funding! There were about 15 people who attended lunches who really really needed help BUT the Government was not going to chip in to fund a place that only helped 15 people. So, the organisation allowed these "fakers" to get free lunches each day because the Government would chip in to fund a place that served lunch to 50-60 people a day.

If it wasn't for the 'fakers' there would be no funding and the 15 people who really really needed help would have had nowhere to go.

Yes, it irked me and it still does that that is the way the system works. If you have 15 people asking for help they get passed around the system, fobbed off and they fall through the cracks. BUT if you have 50-60 people asking for help a "system" is set up and put in place to provide support.

Our 'victim players' contribute too. As much as we dislike it and see the unfairness in it, they contribute to the "word' getting out there, the education that's put in place and the support facilities that are set up for the real victims.

Now things are changing as many people are stepping up and admitting to things such as depression/anxiety but years ago if it wasn't for the 'players and attention seekers' we would never have had enough voices asking for help to get any help. In the days when only a handful were brave enough to admit to MH issues, we needed the 'players' to join in to get the word out there. The players helped boost our numbers from 15 to 50 which helped get the issues out there and known.

Again, I'm probably not making any sense to anyone. It's a matter of numbers. Squeaky wheel thing.

Carrying our own cross

Sad_Mushroom — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 07:24:55 GMT

Hi,

I remember about 20years ago when I first wanted to "out" myself for having MH issues. My friends etc were horrified by the ramifications. Not only for me but for my kids and their school etc.

Back then having an MH issue was a dirty bad thing.

I had a friend and she was doing OK but she always compared her issues to mine. If I was sad so was she. I would be sad because my meds were not working and work was a nightmare, she was sad because she didn't have a car to meet up with a guy she met online. I would end up driving her to meet the guy and babysitting her son while she went off on a date.

No matter my issues her cross was always heavier. She did this to others also.

She honestly believed she was carrying a cross. She didn't work so was always broke. She didn't drive so could not meet anyone she met online. She could not afford babysitters. SHE thought her cross was real. It was real. To her it was.

IN her defence she was a lovely lady and would help anyone she could. She had limited education and had no chance of getting a good job. She had never had a job so had no experience. She was raised by a mother who made out she was sick all the time, as the mother needed attention, so this lady was convinced she was too sick to work. She was raised to believe she was sick and dying. She was raised to be an actor and played it well.

I have a question: How many of the 'players' are carrying on a family tradition of acting like sick people, when indeed they are not sick at all?

Carrying our own cross

white knight — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 08:41:53 GMT

Hi SM

good point and question.

My wife has a friend, single 57yo, 3 adult kids. She rang us regularly for 12 months for many various illnesses. My wife took her 2 hours to the eye and ear hospital and return, numerous appointments. She had her license and a car but allegedly couldn't drive.

Eventually I suggested to my wife that we must look after ourselves emotionally and financially before we give to charity. In the end we took her to the local hospital and upon checking her promptly charged her $65. She was shocked but it was the only way they could make her stay away when there were other real cases.

Following a 2 month holiday we returned home. The next day this friend arrived. How are you? I ask. "Well, I've got a sore forearm from using the chainsaw and a neighbor thinks I'm a hypochondriac and....." This went on for around 10 minutes. Then I interjected "After 2 months away I think its better for you to ask how our holiday went...don't you think"?

She has moved to Adelaide. Now we get calls from her and every call commences with problems. Our friendship with her no longer exists. We are an earpiece. Now we've found out from others at a local club that every member of this sewing group has the same sort of relationship.

It sounds cruel but I am not in this world to pander to anyone that is one sided. My relationships are two sided and of "roughly" equal care and support. So in answer to your question I think it could be many things- family trait of attention seeking, insecurity, real mental health issues, past abuse, loneliness.

Tony WK

Carrying our own cross

Sad_Mushroom — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 08:57:52 GMT

So Tony,

Do you think the "players" do it because physical ailments can be disproved by Doctors etc and MH issues cannot? All a player needs to know is a friend with a MH issue or how to google to read up to PLAY the game?

BTW all this question is not only for Tony. I would like to know what others think as this is "stealing" from us. These people "steal" from our pain and make it their own pain, then steal the help that should be ours.

Am I being too tough on these people?

Carrying our own cross

white knight — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 22:21:07 GMT

Hi sm

Re Am I being too tough on these people?

Great question. Thats the kind guilty person that these people take advantage of. We dont like hurting others. What if he/she does have a serious illness? OMG I'll feel so bad.

Perhaps there are boundaries or telltale signs. Eg our friend drove to the shops the day after my wife drove her to Melbourne the day before when she couldnt drive. Initially we believed her stories but many times later they didnt add up.

Frankly our illnesses were of more severity but these people are focussed on themselves. Nobody can be as sick as them. Its all about them.

Members welcome to comment.

Tony WK

Carrying our own cross

Doolhof — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 22:51:32 GMT

Hi Everyone,

There have been some interesting points made here.

I feel there are some people in this world who believe they are here to be served and cared for by others and have no idea that is not the way other people think.

We can change our character and personality traits if we try, but if they suit us well, why would we? The squeaky wheel gets the most attention.

I know some people whom I think are down right nasty in the way they behave, will they change because I think they should? Do they think they need to change? NO.

The person who makes the most noise is attended to first. The one in front will be served first. The quiet person at the back may be ignored altogether.

Some people carry their cross with lights and horns going off for all to see and hear. Some carry theirs hidden under a thick coat so no one else can see it.

I hope I am the person who can see someone else's cross that is hidden and to offer them the help and support they may need.

Cheers all from Dools

Carrying our own cross

white knight — Sat, 06 Jan 2018 08:46:30 GMT

Well said Mrs Dools

Theres a saying about "feeling sorry for oneself for having no socks until I saw a man with no feet."

Tony WK