topic When all is lost....what can you do? Be radical? in Staying well

When all is lost....what can you do? Be radical?

white knight — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 08:29:18 GMT

I look back on my disruptive life and wonder ow I survived. I joined the RAAF at 17 lasted till I was 20. By then I'd owned 20 cars on impulsive buying and the debts that went with them. Then a taxi driver, assembly line worker, cleaner, spare parts sales, prison officer and by 30yo I'd had about 50 jobs and 15 professions. I had no idea I wasnt well. Bipolar type 2, dysthymia anxiety and depression and I'm near certain ADHD had a lot of presence as well.

All of this came to a head in 1996 with a plan for suicide. But I survived it- I turned it around...how? A week later my wife and I separated. I fell into depression while living in a 3 metre caravan but survived....when I purchased a block of land and built my own house. And so the unsuspected routine kept going. Frankly I think two things saved me....a change of direction/interest and consideration for others in my life.

So lets put suicide aside. You are depression or anxious, up and down mood or family and friends have abandoned you. Whatever your crisis you are in despair, at the end of your tether and you dont have an answer. Through default and luck I found the answers to my crisis each and every time it came about. What about you? What can YOU do to slip out of your situation and predicament? To do a u-turn with your life and save it.?

Let's look at what is at your disposal. Environment- I knew a guy once, a railway worker that was heavily depressed. He lived alone. One day he didnt turn up for work. A fortnight later he rang me and told me he had taken a job as a jackaroo in Queensland. A year later he rang me to tell me how happy he was. Just one example. Friends and family- if they are causing you grief then take action. We are talking about your health here. In some cases - survival. Take time out or expel them from your life or somewhere in between. Work- chase another job. Social media- cut out the people you have never met.

I'm saying whatever it takes to allow your mind to be cared for, to rid it of negative forces and situations. I'm not saying it's easy, it isnt. There is a lot of fear out there among people to be radical but I'm suggesting that when there is no other option, that all reasonable options have been exhausted....its time to rethink the basics of your life. The alternative isnt an option, when remaining in your current situation is not healthy.

Perhaps others have more suggestions to avoid falling into the hollow well of hopelessness.

When all is lost....what can you do? Be radical?

JessF — Fri, 13 Jun 2014 05:08:29 GMT

Hello white knight, I have to say this could be the best thing I've read on this forum. You are so right, as much as some of us are more prone to depression and mental illness, it doesn't magically appear out of nowhere. There are many things in our environments that can contribute to a poor quality of life - be it bad relationships, bad jobs, broken families and friendships. Some things we can change, and some we can't, and some of the things we THINK we can't change we actually CAN, but we are too afraid to, or it simply hasn't occurred to us an an option.

I'm going to split the difference and say, haha, be conservatively radical!

When all is lost....what can you do? Be radical?

white knight — Fri, 13 Jun 2014 05:14:47 GMT

Hi JessF, thanks for your reply.

Conservative radical? wow. Never thought of that. It's spot on. That's exactly where I was coming from. Sure, make the changes to preserve your life/lifestyle/family commitments as well as make the changes you need to kick start your mental state moving it forward.

When all is lost....what can you do? Be radical?

JillCameTumbling — Thu, 19 Jun 2014 14:45:12 GMT

Wishing Bb had a "like" button 🙂

When all is lost....what can you do? Be radical?

white knight — Thu, 19 Jun 2014 15:43:24 GMT

Thankyou Jillcametumbling

I wonder what the effects of instinct has? We often tell each other- "go by your instincts".

But instincts can be blurred or they hit brick walls. Procrastinating would likely be a brick wall.. Only add to the confusion I suspect.

As far back as 1980 when, after 3 years as a prison officer my instinct told me to get out of that job, that environment. Not for any other reason but inside I was a marshmellow that had no emotional protection. For this reason alone I was totally unsuitable. For years I regretted not leaving earlier because by staying longer than desired I subjected my mind to a few terrible events.

Another example- My wife has a dear friend. This friend has many issues like myself but by no fault of her own when she visits and becomes teary eyed about her abusive past my instinct tells me to get up and walk outside the house to clear my head. I dont make this obvious to her etc but if I didnt do this I'd be heavily effected for some time. It brings me down. Writing on this forum is a lot different. I cant stop when I like...I have some control.

If someone has a partner that is domineering, would that situation suppress ones instinct? If they constantly wanted to get out of the relationship but felt mentally overpowered then this would be going against their instincts like going against a tide....could this lead to a worsening of a mental condition?

So many questions. I'm wondering, in terms of taking radical steps to relieve a situation whether one should run with their instincts or leave it and swim against the tide for the rest of their days? Like living in hell and with fear.

For me, I ran with my instincts in nearly every situation that I faced and nearly all were correct decisions. They appeared to others to be radical, unwise, not thought out enough, knee jerking. But those people didnt have the bipolar, they werent with the anxiety and they werent ME.

Notice I said "to others". I often do that. Compare decisions I've made by instinct on what 'normal' people would think. If its one thing I've learned to do lately its to realise and accept that those with a mental illness are unique and not of the "inner popular core" in terms of toleration, behaviour, coping, emotion, reaction, communication etc and therefore are of the fringe of society, often bullied, discarded, ignored, ostracised, gossiped about, discriminated against etc.

Perhaps we should rely on our instincts more?

When all is lost....what can you do? Be radical?

Struggler — Fri, 27 Jun 2014 15:55:17 GMT

Hi White Knight

Excellent article! Not sure about radical but your suggestions for dealing with an unhealthy situation is no doubt logical.

We have control in many situations. For example, we can purge toxic people from our lives, especially if they are merely friends and I did that. We can remove ourselves from an upsetting environment. I walked out of dinner party once.

When it comes to our jobs that we rely on to feed our families and pay bills, it is not that simple. We have to endure the toxic environment until we find another job to go to so we still have the roof over our head. Unfortunately for me, I landed in toxic workplace after toxic workplace. Was I incompetent? No. Was I a trouble maker? No. Was I lazy? Certainly not. Did I offend people? No again.

I am 59 and dealing with the issue that I'll not have a proper job outside home again. Fortunately for me, I can afford to live on my assets now if I also do some work at home business. This is exactly what is happening with me now. I am finding peace and my mental health improves because I am no longer subject to workplace bullying and discrimination. Toxic work place is the only contributing factor to my depression and anxiety.

So, yes, we can change our situation but it is not that straightforward sometimes. I have only been able to do so now after so many years suffering.

Struggler

When all is lost....what can you do? Be radical?

HelenM — Fri, 27 Jun 2014 16:44:50 GMT

Hi White Knight

I find your ideas really interesting. I have managed to get rid of some people from my life who I found bad for ,me. It took me a long time to realise that I have a right to do that. Finally in 2008 I left my job after bullying and a total lack of managers to understand my needs (they really couldn't get it).

I like that you see 'normal' people as different. So often when I've said in desperation, I just want to be normal, Doctors and mental health care workers have said, What's normal or nobody's normal. Live in my head for a while and they'll know what normal isn't.

Helen

When all is lost....what can you do? Be radical?

white knight — Fri, 27 Jun 2014 21:35:44 GMT

Hi ladies, thankyou for your replies.

"live in my head for a while and they'd see what normal isnt".. Too right. I've observed people for a long time in my past 90 jobs (now retired). Some people never explode with rage, are the same demeanor every day guaranteed. I wouldnt know how that would feel except that it would be darn boring lol.

Yes struggler, the workplace, more than 50% are toxic and have some degree of bullying. It can be the only destructive thing in your life and it can be enough to bring you down. "The right" to make the decisions to walk away from a dinner party that has turned ugly towards you is something we learn...or suffer from the hands of the naive. Those that want a "one up" on you.

I've noticed on Facebook there are at times postings that include the words "crazy". I'm being a little sensitive here but society has a long long way to go. We mentally ill, beautiful people of the world are still pigeon holed, still categorised as being "not one of them". It hurts. As much hurt as an African American called the "N" word and other examples.

This is where 'instinct' plays its part. We have to abide by our immediate reaction or we take risks. Taking risks for some can bring with it many negative thoughts. Suicide is still largely an unknown commodity, what triggers it.

Perhaps not acting on instinct is one on the list of triggers. Some people might subject themselves to ALL forms of abuse and not act upon them. Be the punching bag of all and sundry. I'm just wondering if these poor souls could have a chance of being saved by developing some defence strategies....by using their instincts.?

When all is lost....what can you do? Be radical?

geoff — Sat, 28 Jun 2014 03:07:31 GMT

dear WK, forgive me for not replying to your post, because you have been through so much plus your experience in the field has taught you a great deal, and this includes your life experiences.

You pose a good rational when you say ' I found the answers to my crisis each and every time it came about' and also ' whether one should run with their instincts or leave it and swim against the tide for the rest of their day', this so true in hindsight but when we are struggling with our own depression, we don't have the capability to even fathom this rational, then we are sucked into believing that we will never get any better.

I am the same as Struggler fortunately I do have some assets that keep my going, as relying on centrelink, but then it's catch 22 with them. Geoff.

When all is lost....what can you do? Be radical?

white knight — Sat, 28 Jun 2014 07:18:13 GMT

Hi Geoff,

Yes, I'm aware that when we are in the depression 'zone' rational thought is not even ...well thought about because we havent the capacity to do so. This leads to the belief or even the conclusion that medication and therapy are the two things left that can be effective during these bouts.

I suppose instinct can be more effective when not in a depression period. To ward off potentially hurtful effects. The crystal ball we really dont have....could we develop one?

I dont know. We are creative but not fortune tellers.

When all is lost....what can you do? Be radical?

HelenM — Sat, 28 Jun 2014 18:28:51 GMT

As you say acting on instinct isn't necessarily good in a depression. In my first and absolute worst depression I was disgusted that the health service wouldn't help me to die. One of the good things in depression or just in the human psyche is that we work out the best way to do something based on what we believe are reliable sources. This is what saved me. My facts were wrong and so here I am to tell the tale - Thank God.

Helen

When all is lost....what can you do? Be radical?

Doolhof — Mon, 26 Jun 2017 22:50:55 GMT

Hi Tony,

I'm resurrecting this old thread in relation to a post of yours to me on a different thread.

Yes, I do feel stuck and unloved in my relationship. Where to from here? I have re read this thread and some of the points I have noted from it are:

- I can change the direction of my life

-I can develop and encourage my interests and pursue them

-I can choose to stay or go

-I need to consider what I want from life and how I can achieve that

-Despair can cloud my vision, understanding, perspective and beliefs

-I can take action to change the things I can change and accept those I can't

-Am I too afraid to do any of this?

-Procrastination can have me sitting on the fence...forever

-Feeling mentally overpowered and controlled isn't a fulfilling way to live

Quite a lot to think about!

Cheers from Mrs. D.

When all is lost....what can you do? Be radical?

white knight — Tue, 04 Jul 2017 05:12:17 GMT

Hi Mrs Dools

Sorry I missed your post.

Procrastination?. I'm the opposite hence "be radical" is levelled at those opposite. I see people in their comfort zone, and thats fine but I also see people unhappy and dont understand why they live their only life in a stale relationship or a boring or abusive or dominated lifestyle.

Then again leaving home at 17 to join the RAAF saw me travel around setting up home where ever. Most people remain in their abode district.

Focussing on a controlled relationship, all my family members were controlled by my mother, including dad. It was only in 2009 that I was advised by a friend to google

Queen witch waif hermit

Only then did I realise the extent of it. Narcassism doesnt need to contain all four traits. Just having the QUEEN is controlling in itself...and that includes men.

IMO only when one finally leaves the family home can one feel that weight off your shoulders and your dignity or at least your pride seep back in. The result is so overwhelming that people from dominated relationships rarely return because leopard spots dont change.

My wife is a softy, an animal lover and of course she is beautiful. She is also my princess. And I tell her that regularly

What I see in some relationships is a lack of praise, affection, respect, care, expectations, workload etc. Yet they remain there. The answers to their problems is not to endure that life with that person. In some of these cases, the victim with the mental illness has a lessening of their depressive symptoms a few weeks after settling into their new abode...

Once the shock has worn off and one is settled, its a case of learning to take advantage of a new lifestyle, alone and not controlled.

I hope I've help my friend.

Tony WK

When all is lost....what can you do? Be radical?

Doolhof — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 05:47:01 GMT

Hi Tony,

Thanks for your response. I understand what you are saying. If only it was that easy my friend.

Some days it would be wonderful if it was as easy to leave as it was when I was 17, left home with a suitcase of clothes and a couple of hundred dollars.

Lived in a caravan, found work and ended up living the life of a feral for a while.

Not sure I want to do that at 50 plus. Then again, it might be fun!

Not really ready for a deep and meaningful about this issue.

Maybe the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence for all of us.

Cheers from Mrs. D.

When all is lost....what can you do? Be radical?

white knight — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 12:05:26 GMT

Dear Mrs Dools

Of course.

Take care.

Tony WK

When all is lost....what can you do? Be radical?

Doolhof — Wed, 05 Jul 2017 21:50:55 GMT

Hi Dear Tony,

Just want to let you know I do appreciate your very kind and helpful words.

Maybe for me, I need to be more radical in my life that I have here. I need to stand up for my own rights, look after myself (in a non self centred way) and make the most of what I do have.

Mental health issues, continuous chronic pain and low self esteem don't help the journey.

So it is time for me to rise up like the phoenix and get on with being radical right here where I am!

Hell Yes!

Sounds great...now to put it into action! Ha. HA.

Thanks Tony, Cheers from Mrs. D.

When all is lost....what can you do? Be radical?

The_Possum — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 08:54:05 GMT

Hi Tony

I just came across this post and although from 2014 it's a great an inspiring read.

For me personally, I find this is harder to achieve than may be thought.

In my experience the loss of depression see me so irritable and basically not very rational that I wouldn't want to even think of making any decisions. I know I'd likely regret it.

It is at these times that I rely on psychologists and people around me to help me better understand the situation I'm in clearly.

However this comes with great risk. I've had experience with friends who had their own ulterior motive and encouraging me to make decisions that weren't in my best interests.

I've had family capitalising on my vulnerability when it came to blocking others out of my life (that they didn't like, not me).

I have also questioned some of the advice psychologists have given. They also seem to want to bandaid my issues with a quick solution. Eg family stresses you at? Just pack up and relocate. That's great and all. But they don't have to live with the reprocussion of that choice do they? But I do.

I also find when you have so many people relying on you, it's hard to selfishly break free and just do what we want to feel better mentally. I have my own family, kids, husband, ill family.. It gets suffocating here and I do dream about packing my bags and starting fresh. But I simply can't.

Work wise, I've worked in toxic environments suffered bullying which ultimately resulted in my major depression last year. People in the street still hate me & spread rumours about it. I suffer extreme anxiety from it now.

When I really thought about what I wanted to be I realised I hated my occupation. I want to he a doctor. I sat the GAMSAT and got the marks, my GPA under and post graduate was high enough, I prepared my portfolio for submission ready to sit the interview.

How easy do you think it is for a 35 female with two little boys, no income to undertake a gruelling training program & be posted in locations everywhere, working shifts at hospitals.

Being a doctor is what I want to do. But it's never going to happen. And I don't like me career and settling for jobs that I hate, that bore me and that wear me down.

But that's just too bad for me. It's too late. And with a mental illness on my record I doubt I'd ever be employable as a doctor.

Radical might work for some. But it will never work for me. My mental health is always going to suffer for it.

When all is lost....what can you do? Be radical?

Doolhof — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 11:00:35 GMT

Hi Possum,

Just read your post.

Recently I heard that a couple of the Drs at the centre I attend had mayor mental health breakdowns a couple of years ago. They are still working. One of them I see regularly, the compassion this Dr has around my own mental health issues is amazing, I have received such care and attention from this Dr.

Please don't give up your dream of being a Dr. just yet. I certainly do not know your situation at all, other than what you have shared here. Is it possible for this to become a reality?

There are many reason why I feel I can't leave. My Christian values and beliefs are tied up in it all as well. Right now I am trying to make the most of the things I do have and am trying to stand up more for myself, make my needs known and will try to take steps to feel more acceptance and comfort in who I am and where I am.

A small step for me, last night I suggested my husband pick up the remote control himself as it is always closer to him anyway. He usually asks me to pass it to him so he doesn't have to move off his thrown!

This morning I left him a message asking if he could please hang out the washing. I came home and it was done.

Small steps to help build up my sense of wellbeing and self worth.

When all is lost....what can you do? Be radical?

white knight — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 15:18:54 GMT

Hi mrs Dools and Possum

This thread is one of the most "interpret it yourself and adapt it as you see fit" threads of all.

It cannot be taken literally. It was meant to display how radical actions can in some situations improve your life and even save it in some circumstances.

Eg. Some people tolerate toxic people that are never rejected, thrown out of their mentally fragile lives. If they were to be radical and finally move on in life without them, then it would be a radical step, but not necessarily a radical step for someone like me.

Mrs Dools , telling hubby to retrieve the remote himself was radical. It worked. It might seem subtle but its more significant than it appears. Its a "hey, dont treat me as a slave" statement.

I had a friend. His marriage was collapsing. He told me he was planning to move interstate far away from his terrible wife. He had young kids. In his case being so radical is to the detriment of his children and ultimately himself. It was also what his wife wanted.

He agreed with me that if he left and moved to the next town where his wife never shopped, he was in effect being just as radical (in not seeing her, bumping into her) as going interstate. With so many other benefits like his kids still have a dad albeit part time.

Thats an example of "being radical in a more measured manner".

Being radical the thread is aimed at those that feel trapped in procrastinating mindset that causes them harm to the point where they see no relief in sight.

Tony WK

When all is lost....what can you do? Be radical?

blondguy — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 16:31:51 GMT

Hey Tony...I just noticed your thread especially the 'Radical' term as an offset

I have read your original post that you wrote in the late 14th century......and its a good one.

I like how well you summarized your point in your last post as well...

Just my view on what you mentioned "Being radical the thread is aimed at those that feel trapped in
procrastinating mindset that causes them harm to the point where they see no relief in sight"

Just my perspective on what you mentioned above

never losing touch with our 'inner child'....as in the true meaning
Ive just been told that I am 57 going on 14.....That was a huge compliment for me...
I am a huge fan of JessF and Possum's posts here with their varying clarity
I just have a zero tolerance where taking life too seriously is concerned (even with long term MI)
Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence

I am happy that I have learned the 'art' of being simple instead of being an 'intellectual'

Our IQ is like a volume control.....we have to turn it down to lessen the volume (impact) of a mental illness not to mention the 'overthinking' that comes with continually having an argument with an overactive brain

This is a crackerjack thread Tony...Where have you been hiding it? Good1

My Best

Paul