topic Religion and Depression, Anxiety, &c. in Staying well

Religion and Depression, Anxiety, &c.

Damien — Mon, 20 May 2013 08:52:39 GMT

Hello.

I have noticed on a few of beyondblue's Facebook posts in particular that there are occasional Bible verses posted as if the answer to mental illness is found in religion. In other places I have noticed that people who have a religious faith have had their "reason not to feel hopelessness" abused by people who don't like religion at all.

I am interested in this stream and wonder what people's experiences of this sort of thing is. Does Christianity (and other religions) offer anything positive to the way we feel as Anxious and Depressed people, (and I experience GAD, Depression, and Social Phobia), or is religion just another reason for people to bully us when we're down because we "don't have enough faith" or we're "sick because we're superstitious"?

Please don't Bible-bash or bully me with your atheism. If however you have been Bible-bashed or put down for being religious I'd love to know how this has affected you as a person with Depression or Anxiety.

Thanks,

Damien.

Religion and Depression, Anxiety, &c.

geoff — Tue, 21 May 2013 00:56:27 GMT

dear Damien, well I won't bible bash you, it's people choose whether they believe in a faith or whether they don't.

I will try and look at this at a different angle, as I'm not religious, but what happens to those that have no faith and how are they treated by the people who do have a faith.

My ex is catholic, but she had PND with our second child, although she was not into going to church every sunday then, but now she does, and I wonder if she is doing this to connect with the god she believes exists, but then this god seems to be referred to as 'he', and I don't believe that I have heard of anyone calling this god a 'she', which is curious, and maybe those who are religious have an explanation for this.

When she had PND I can't remember her saying that 'god' would help her through her depression, and she over came this by herself with help.

Now she says that god is looking after me and that he has guided me through this depression, however 20 odd years of depression hasn't convinced me one bit.

If she wants to believe this then she is entitled to do so, however I can't agree with her. Geoff.

Religion and Depression, Anxiety, &c.

Vegetarian Marshmallow — Tue, 21 May 2013 05:53:54 GMT

Quoting the bible is fine. Of course there's lots of pedestrian, wrong, and nonsensical stuff in the bible, which religious people sometimes seem to think is more profound than it really is simply because it comes from the bible (you get this from any fan of anything - teenage girls will post quotes from their favourite singer like "I like cheese sandwiches. Sometimes, I eat them for lunch.", thinking it's an amazing revelation), but if it's a good quote, it might have a positive effect. I quote lots of places. TV shows, movies, books, whatever. I'm sure I must've quoted the bible once or twice. Quotes are nice.

Religion hasn't had much effect on me. I was definitively an atheist by the age of about 13, slightly before any inkling of depression. I never considered "turning to God" for refuge from anything. I just don't believe any religion is real, so I don't have the option of turning to it.

I haven't really been bullied about being an atheist. It just tends to be a mutual sort of "You don't believe in God? How strange!" / "You believe in God? How strange!" thing. There was a kind of douchey guy on a forum once, who was like "All you atheists are the same! No morals, no sense of the beauty of the universe, blah blah blah.". I wasn't in any kind of vulnerable headspace to particularly care about such sentiments, but his vitriol was there, nonetheless.

Preachy religious types can be annoying but I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt that their heart is in the right place and they're just trying to save me from hell, rather than forcing their beliefs on me.

It'd probably be pretty dumb to start deriding religion to a depressed person who's finding it comforting, unless perhaps it's also contributing to their depression somehow.

I think religion can certainly offer comfort to people in various forms of suffering, though I think there are better alternatives, and I would be happier to see people turn to something less exploitable ("Give us your money, we need a new fancy church!", "God says this is the correct way to live, so you must live this way!").

Religion and Depression, Anxiety, &c.

Damien — Tue, 21 May 2013 11:02:28 GMT

Hello Geoff and Rodentdron, thanks for responding.

I find it interesting how as a Christian (there, I've said it) how much this fact about me seems to make a difference to the people I speak to about Anxiety and Depression. Most people, the vast majority, are fine with it and don't see any issue. "What difference does it make?" is their response if they even think to comment.

I've not had any non-believers make negative comment to me, although I am aware of others whose stories include their being hassled for being "deranged anyway" or "superstitious" as if their beliefs are somehow the cause or a contributing factor to their biological or situational Depressive Illnesses. Of course I think this to be unfair as commentary, but as I say I know of it only third-hand.

What I have come across is Christians using Bible verses or their own interpretations of what "faith" means to be demeaning toward Mental Illness, although usually in the absence of their actually knowing anyone who struggles in this way. Yes there are passages in the Bible that speak of Jesus and faith in Jesus being a source of strength and hope, and as a believer I use these "promises" as part of my meditation or as script for my CBT self-talk. But I do not hold at all to the idea that a Christian who is experiencing a Mental Illness or Mental Health Disorder is somehow less of a woman or man of faith, or is "a sinner" just because they are sick.

Sadly it seems that what might be a source of great strength, (personal faith and spirituality), and support (your local church), have the capacity to become something others can turn against you and a place where stigma is at its most disparaging.

Of course churches (local congregations) and "The Church" (the institution) can be the cause of issues in life, examples of this are well known through the news. Rodentdron you mentioned a few more and you are correct. These are reasonable observations about Christianity in the 20/21 centuries, but not actually my point this time.

What I am hoping to do is to remind believers of all sorts, (not just Christians, but that's what I know most about), to be people of compassion and patience and not people of intolerance or judgementalism. I ask out of genuine desire to understand and show respect, for others' beliefs and experiences.

I guess the other thing is to see if other people are thinking like I am or whether, as a GAD and Social Phobia person myself I've just found a random hobby-horse which is actually just me and no-one else is really interested. I'm happy enough if it is "just me", but it doesn't hurt to ask.

🙂

Religion and Depression, Anxiety, &c.

The_Real_David_Charles — Sat, 25 May 2013 07:53:40 GMT

Dear Damien,

I remember the old BB site having a lot of anxiety about having a post on religion. Pre-empting the discussion with "we better not go there" type moments. When the post finally came through (from Kiara Tiara who sadly didn't last more than a couple of weeks on this new system - great loss in my opinion) it seemed to lack the punch and diversiveness that everyone expected. It was actually quite disappointing. A bit like Carbon Tax. Not much meaning was extracted.

If you count me as a Christian it would be in the lapsed sense. There seems to be a "fall from grace" at the point the Devil takes form. Prayer is often described as being done "for" someone under attack from the forces of Evil. Uplifting, Open and Honest but then if a Christian tells someone "I'm praying for you" it can lead to discomfort and resentment. "Why do you think you are better than me ?" kind of thing. Probably not given a good rap by Jehovah's Witnesses bashing on your door at 9am on a casual Sunday morning. Uninvited. Are these methodical and organised conversion visits helping the Jehovah Witness or the "sinner" ? Strange that such door knocking is considered OK but there is a mandate that a Jehoval Witness must not canvass his own neighbours. Double standard ? You bet.

I've seen and read a few of your posts and you are always on the money (no, you didn't steal the collection box). Just looking at Christianity and all it's humbling sacrifice would make one believe in a greater good. It's long term. Maybe the fact that Christians pit themselves against the Devil is what makes them a target for things like depression, anxiety and other medical problems like cancer, etc. Damien, I've noticed that as soon as a position is taken in society it almost invites the opposite position to challenge it. Being a Christian doesn't molly coddle you against the sins of the world. It might bring fantastic community support and friends that will bake you a quiche if you end up in a psych ward but it's never about you. The overall vibe has a bit of heart. And anything with a bit of heart quickly gets bashed (your term) or trampled on.

My favourite verse from the Bible is "Jesus wept". Born an outsider, hailed as The Messiah, all those miracles, proverbs and healings, finally crucified for being a public nuisance, resurrected, suffer the indignity of the disciple Thomas sticking his finger through a nail hole on his hand to "prove" it all did happen.............if BB had been around at the time I think Jesus would have posted one hell of an entry. But then his complaints were minimal and he accepted his destiny.

It's a twist of psychological projection that some people "bash" Christians. You'd think Jesus took enough of a "bashing" for the world already. Just saying.

Adios, David.

PS Seriously, did you take the collection box ? Lol.

Religion and Depression, Anxiety, &c.

Damien — Thu, 30 May 2013 01:43:35 GMT

Hello David.

Yes having asked the question here I then did a word search and found Kiara’s posts, and the answers given by you and the gentlemen in the above conversation. Shame it did not continue, but yes this system can be frustrating which is ironic given the theme of the forum.

My point in raising God’s (or the gods’) profile is, as you have observed, not to Bible-bash but to ask the question of whether spirituality is a relevant source of strength, at least for the religious, and thus a place where psychology and care might be interested to look. I have never been the sort of Christian to swear off medicine or to throw away my crutches before the miraculous restoration of my legs “in faith”, and you will have seen that I always advise towards GPs. (After all, if you can get a doctor to attest to your miracle then how cool is that? Hehehe.)

I see prayer as a pastoral activity, a sharing and a discussion and should never be an imposition. I don’t offer prayer to others unless I know they will say yes, and even then I go on to ask, “shall I pray with you now or shall I just mention you later when I am praying?” And yes, “pray with” rather than “pray for”. This does not mean that the other person needs to talk as well, but it does mean it is a joint effort of being in God’s presence rather than me “doing unto” some random cripple in the hope of racking up Double Frequent Martyr Points.

Of course as well as seeing “medicine” as taking an interest in the spiritual, I’d love to see more of “religion” taking an interest in “psychology”. Christians and other religious types will experience mental illness if they are human. Perhaps a strong belief in a strong God will provide assurances and hope in life, even if there are no gods the mental placebo should be amazing, but faith in God does not stop a religious person from having low levels of serotonin as much as it does low levels of insulin or testosterone or anything else. We can have special cakes for the diabetics at morning tea, and special wafers so gluten-intolerant types can celebrate Eucharist, but when it comes to mental stuff the churches go all exorcist. Why so?

Those who quote the Bible passages where God offers strength and hope remind us of great promises, but from the context of the post (rather than the verses) these words read as condemnation. “God offers peace, so if you’re disturbed then you’re a sinner.” Bullshit man! At the same time there are the anti-theists, not just atheist or non-religious but people who actively want to eradicate (Christian) religion who get on about superstition being a form of weakness in itself, and of course the whole (true) story that religion and religious people can cause mental illnesses through abuse.

It is for this reason that I didn’t continue my conversation with Sarah (sare_anxiety). She said God was telling her she was useless, I said God doesn’t say that. She said she understood that the voices she heard were lying and that she’s not in danger. That’s enough for me! There was no need for me to try to convert her back to Christianity, (she said she’s left), my point is no “conversion” but “conversation”. I counter bad spiritual advice voices with good spiritual advice. She didn’t need evangelism, but she just as much didn’t need “there’s no such thing as God so HTFU”. So often it seems those are the only two offerings made to spiritual people with emotional struggles.

Thanks for the support David, sorry it took so long to reply, it’s been “one of those days” for about nine weeks now. 😉

Damien.

PS. No the collection box was not me, although I did steal the cookie from the cookie jar...

Religion and Depression, Anxiety, &c.

The_Real_David_Charles — Thu, 30 May 2013 14:40:24 GMT

Dear Damien, cookie eater and decent guy,

Although I paint my partner/wife as a bit of a militant dictator in terms of "allowing" me on the internet (lest I become violently manic and overthrow the Government) she is much more in tune with religion than me to the point of regular attendance, Healing Ministry and having a fairly universal grasp on society rather than "where's my beer ?". One time at band camp, no, one time I went to a Healing Ministry and when the time came to offer some prayer for my mental disability I suddenly declined. Like you said it's only a belief system if it works for you. The only psychological explanation I can offer is that I didn't want another imposition (in the form of prayer) on an existing imposition (in the form of bipolar). Add in the Spanish Inquisition and we are all on the HIgh Seas in this boat people often refer to. Although sometimes we're all on a roller coaster too (as others describe). I just thought we were all sick. You must be sick of this paragraph by now so let's move on. In the old BB site there was no paragraphic opportunities. Just endless text.

On another occasion I was coming out of a 9 month manic admission and felt a bit of spiritual support would help. I went to the Healing service and sat at the back so as not to appear too keen. Half way through the first hymn I fell asleep, no, I mean I felt an evil cloud over me. Sorry, must tell the story straight. No more mucking around. Darkness gripped me midway through the first hymn.

An old lady in the row infront (that later was identified as not being known by anyone) suddenly confronted me with haughty laughter, rolling her eyes till they stuck on the top, frothing at the mouth and some Ancient script spieled out with utter evil and dark menace. Although I was in a line of 15 and the small church was holding about 100 all this behaviour was directed at me. After this lady was bustled out the Priest made a declaration that "This place is a sanctuary for those that seek the Lord and there is no place for the Devil inside these walls" and everyone cheered. The service continued but I've got to admit I was a bit shaken. I recovered enough for tea and biscuits and enjoyed hero status.

The same evilness surrounds me on nights when my wife goes to Bible Study. Seriously, by the time she returns I have practically got the weapon of self harm and attempted suicide. Kind of a battle of Good vs Evil. But then I always figure if I can take such attacks at least the Devil won't go for my children. Or maybe my kids just have a stronger faith. It's quite disturbing nevertheless.

If mental illness is the Devil's work then he's pretty good at it. The slightest disappointment can lead to suicide. The slightest hiccup in marriage can lead to divorce. All it takes is one chink in the armour (or spiritual armour). I always thought I had it bad enough with 26 yrs bipolar and a family that never accepted my wife (but adore the grandchildren !). 3 medical retirements. I mean, maybe the Devil is just saying "Stay down - don't even think of praying or seeking The Lord's help to get better or have a better quality of life". It's quite a learning curve.

Your techie skills in finding the other post are admirable. From memory that religious post fizzled out too quickly. Maybe this thread will have a bit more interest if people seek another level of understanding. and forgiveness.

Adios, David.

PS My wife said that as Jesus has already died for us we don't have to suffer with separate burdens anymore. In short, don't sweat the small stuff. This response may be too way out, too long and too broody but so are parts of the Bible.

Religion and Depression, Anxiety, &c.

Vegetarian Marshmallow — Fri, 31 May 2013 13:08:46 GMT

Damien said:
What I have come across is Christians using Bible verses or their own interpretations of what "faith" means to be demeaning toward Mental Illness, although usually in the absence of their actually knowing anyone who struggles in this way.

I would be curious as to which came into the person's life first - their intolerance or the religious doctrine i.e. did the doctrine lead them to intolerance, or did their intolerance lead them to interpret the doctrine in a way that agrees with their pre-existing beliefs? I tend to assume the latter - all the world's a mirror. I think these are just plain dumb people. You get them everywhere. A religious community is no more immune to them than any other social circle. I imagine their nincompoopery also exhibits itself in aspects of their lives other than religion. I'm not surprised it'd be more prevalent in people who have no actual experience in the matter, because if they did, their love for their afflicted comrades would stand a chance of overpowering their dipstickitude.

Religion and Depression, Anxiety, &c.

Vegetarian Marshmallow — Fri, 31 May 2013 13:57:25 GMT

Damien said:
We can have special cakes for the diabetics at morning tea, and special wafers so gluten-intolerant types can celebrate Eucharist, but when it comes to mental stuff the churches go all exorcist. Why so?

Well, anything affecting the mind has implications for the notion of a soul. You know, what happens to a person's soul when they undergo a corpus callosotomy or develop Alzheimer's?

But I think this is also somewhat present in society at large just because the physical is more.. tangible. I think in the public understanding, the body (excusing the brain, which houses the mind) is "solved". We can more easily think of our bodies deterministically, as machines, because we can see them, touch them. Not so with the mind.

Religion and Depression, Anxiety, &c.

Damien — Thu, 24 Oct 2013 09:07:10 GMT

Unclaimed Cabbage.

How sad! I would claim you, you seem nice. 🙂

I've been doing all my posting over at blueVoices for a while now, but since religion has come up as a new comment I thought you (and Geoff and Real David) might be interested in this excerpt from my blog.

http://damienwrites.wordpress.com/2013/06/18/christian-pastoral-care-for-depressed-people/

😄

Religion and Depression, Anxiety, &c.

The_Real_David_Charles — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 06:18:20 GMT

Thanks Damien,

Maybe people save religion for the last minute. And then are not sure what to pick. It's almost like we have become fine tuned to wait for the special, the 2 for 1 deal, etc. But, as you well know, the Trinity (or 3 in 1) of Christianity seems a good bargain. Maybe there is a similarity between depression/mental illness and religion in that the experience of each seems to lead to acceptance of being or acceptance of faith.

My wife's church just got rid of all the musicians covering 5 services. A new minister favours the workings of Taylor Swift so has elected to form a small band to do nothing but Taylor Swift type religious feel songs and has even made a list of 20 suitable hymns/songs for that purpose. I don't know much about church politics but it seemed unfair to dispose of genuine voluntary talent without a thanks or dinner. Imposing modern songs to include the modern generation could be seen as prejudicial. It's a church that had many, many great musicians help out (who work with pro bands, the Symphony, Opera, experienced Youth group types). Now they are left with a dingy band of the worst musos. Who MUST reh Wed nights else be fired ! Where is the compassion for that scenario ??????

Adios, David.

Religion and Depression, Anxiety, &c.

geoff — Fri, 25 Oct 2013 14:35:20 GMT

dear Damien, no.2 photo man, I had been thinking of where you have been, as there have a few religious comments that have been posted lately.

I was hoping that you weren't going through a difficult time.

I am interested in mental illness centuries ago, and whether there is any documentation that is available, however I'm sure that if someone back in say King Henry VIII's time had depression there they must have been considered to be possessed by the devil, and therefore 'off with their head'. Geoff.

Religion and Depression, Anxiety, &c.

Damien — Sat, 26 Oct 2013 08:27:59 GMT

Hello Geoff,

Yeah, I have been sick for a bit, but mostly I've been helping the conversations get underway with the blueVoices channel on here so that's where I've been. I also admit to being "scared off" by that know-it-all guy a few months back, the one who'd had all that experience and knowledge yet didn't know how to talk with people. That made me mad, so I just stayed away.

I'm taking a few months to really look at the topics of mental health and faith/spirituality. I'm still a student and have finished my studies for the year, (super organised, Uni goes for another six weeks but I'm ahead of it),and so around loking for a summer job, having Christmas, and generally being Australian in summer I thought I'd keep my brain active (and not bored) by doing some personal study.

Wow, what a long sentence!!

Anyway, the post on my blog (above) is an assignment I completed earlier this year in my pastoral care unit and I thought I might go back over it and some of my resources in an engaged yet relaxed way. Whether it becomes the definitive Theology of Serotonin I doubt it, but it will be interesting for me as both a pastor and a patient.

If you can, please take a look at the blueVoice thread, otherwise I'm thinking it's safe for me to come back and post along this thread once more.

🙂

Religion and Depression, Anxiety, &c.

Lillybell — Sat, 26 Oct 2013 23:07:59 GMT

Hello, my experience is that religion can have both a positive and negative effect on depression. I have known Christians to offer simplistic solutions such as having more faith. I also know of a case of a lady with severe bi-polar disorder who was prayed over and told the demons had now left her body! I've also known atheists who see religion as a crutch while they're sitting there smoking marijuana and sucking on a stubbie! Some of the new age movement and advice it offers can also be simplistic and dangerous. I've read things where they've advised people to rid their life of negative people. Considering that depressed people can be negative, it is the last thing they need to hear.

It has been interesting for me to read the posts about marriage separation on other threads, because it provides an analogy to how I'm feeling at the moment. I became a Christian in my early teens. I married a fundamentalist Christian and we've had 6 children together. I've always been prone to depression and can remember it even as a child, though I didn't realise then what it was. I've had a series of tragedies in my life. The worst one occurred a few years ago. This completely shook my belief in God to the point that my faith has disappeared. The reason I mentioned the analogy to marriage is because in one sense this is what it feels like to lose faith in God. It is like losing your life partner. Many of the things people have said that they feel is what I've experienced. I feel too as if I've lost my anchor. I've accepted this new way of being in the world but it is difficult when I'm surrounded by Christians and feel as if I don't belong. I am still married but feel a loneliness in the marriage because we're both on such different paths. My children are Christians and I've never shared my struggles with them because I don't want to upset their equilibrium. Sundays are the worst for me because it is the day that the family all go off to church together and I'm left alone. I can't phone a friend because they're at church too! What I still do have though is hope. I don't have a permanent solution but I remain hopeful of finding my way through all of this. I know that some days are worse than others. I've also been working my way through an online degree and that has been one of the best things I could have done. It helps to channel my mind into something more positive and helps to control the obsessive thoughts that I often feel I'm a prisoner to. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to share this.

Religion and Depression, Anxiety, &c.

Damien — Sun, 27 Oct 2013 03:27:36 GMT

Hello Lilllybell,

Thanks for joining the conversation.

I'd not thought of the marriage parallel before, since I'm not married and my faith is strong, but yes I imagine I would be talking in terms of grief at loss of a life-partner. I suppose it's hard to grieve with your Christian friends when all they want to do is reconvert you, if that's indeed the case for you. I imagine that might be a common approach for some.

I'm pleased you still have hope, that I think is the greatest offering religion provides in mental health situations, especially for the reasons you have offered about having a means to focus on positive things.

Bless,

Damien.

Religion and Depression, Anxiety, &c.

geoff — Sun, 27 Oct 2013 15:00:14 GMT

dear Damien and Lillybell, although I am an atheist I am enjoying this thread.

Damien I liked your humour when you say ' Theology of Serotonin', why not, it's a good description that maybe people who don't have depression can associate with.

You must be super intelligent to finish 6 weeks ahead of time.

Can you study for next year, so again you will ahead of time?

I'm not sure as to whether money is an issue here, well it always is, but the soup kitchens are a great way to interact with people, not that I know, but my ex helped out for awhile, and now living with a chap from there as well, but it's a good way to listen to the poor or under privileged and I'm sure that they would love to have someone who will listen to them.

Are you interested in mental health centuries ago, and I'm not sure about the documentation available, but my pet love is the old English history.

Lillybell I'm pretty much the same as you, as I lost my belief when I was a young kid when somebody died every year, and no matter how hard I prayed it didn't stop the deaths, sorry Damien just saying, so now I have been an atheist for a long time.

My ex is catholic and goes to church every week, while our sons are also catholic but don't go to church, and it doesn't bother me one bit what religion they are, as long as they are happy, but no one can be happy 24/7. Geoff.

Religion and Depression, Anxiety, &c.

The_Real_David_Charles — Sun, 27 Oct 2013 21:29:13 GMT

Dear Damien,

I was pretty close suicide with all that justification that you have alluded to - "I also admit to being "scared off" by that know it all a few months ago, the one that had all that knowledge and experience yet didn't know how to talk to people". Being "scared off" a site that is set up for scared/anxious people !

To demonstrate the depth of fear I experienced from the same responder I had an anxious moment only last month when another responder criticised me for asking "Has Kate (CEO BB) had experience of mental health ?". At the time it was taken the wrong way by each party. Instantly, I was trying to identify that this might be the same person you are referring to but, of course, BB edited out my vent. I was back to dealing with the "That made me mad, so I just stayed away" part of my brain too.

In the light of this more general reference might I add that as a parent who has really struggled with bipolar and bringing up my own 3 kids I found it almost impossible to accept parental advice for this same direct yet unempathetic responder. The world of the single person vs the world of the parent is so different and I would not presume to tell a single person how to run their lives.

This will probably be edited out but at the risk of alienating the moderators yet also at the benefit of explaining this slightly raw situation to other responders I was allowed a thread called "Dear Facetious" for any interested. Although his user name changed a few times after that the manner was always a bit too arguementative in my view. And I enjoy a long post or good discussion ! I would go to bed thinking "What am I wasting my time responding on BB for ?".

I think this is the key to abuse. You can be in an abusive relationship and think things will improve or at least be put on hold. But when you see someone else's abusive relationship unfold in Public it's a real eye opener and you may want to even step in. When you're nasty to someone they generally come back with more nastyness. When you love and accept someone (back to the religious thread, boy, only took me 5 paragraphs ! Lol) then, as Damien will surely confirm, life can be meeted out with equal measure and the ills of the world can suffer no more.

"Harmony Day" - just passed - was set up for similar reasons. We have enough turmoil, anger and rage in the world already so why not be mature and more loving of each other in our local communities ? Maybe the acceptance of religion is not about recognising what a great prophet or mantra there is but more about whether we will allow ourselves this fleeting desire to be loved and be worthy of love.

Adios, David.

PS I've cut down to 1 post a day so you won the Meat Raffle today Damien ! Otherwise I'll escalate to mania by NYE and stuff up my own band's work, which would be a shame, as we've just signed to to do that fortnight's filming in NY with Sesame Street for next April 2014. 16 years preparation for a 3 min clip. Sounds like sex ! Lol. You always sound married to me although I know it's not the case. Must be the all knowing bushy eyebrows. "Remember to pick up the milk". Yep, I got it. It seems strange to equate Sesame Street with an answer to prayer but my partner assures me God has had a part in this saga. Just ask Elmo.

Religion and Depression, Anxiety, &c.

Damien — Mon, 28 Oct 2013 01:37:07 GMT

I've been thinking...

EXPERIENCES OF DEPRESSION AND ANXIETY AMONG RELIGIOUS PARTICIPANTS

1. Why and how religion matters to religious people compared with the secularising moves and secular-normative understandings of Australian culture: Comments such as: “prayer doesn’t work anyway”; “if church bothers you so much why won’t you just leave church?”; “churches are abusive and hypocritical anyway”; “you know you’d be okay if you weren’t so superstitious”.

2. The stigma of mental illness in people with strong faith and beliefs: spectrum of experiences with religious leaders and participants. Comments such as: “if you had faith you’d be okay”; “why do you need more than God?”; “Christians shouldn’t need drugs”; ”Christians shouldn’t need psychology or secular counselling”; “you have demons”; “this is a spiritual problem”; “you have too much sin”; “this is God’sjudgement”.

3. The stigma of being an identified religious person in the wider community or a target of hate may be related to anxiety. Comments such as: “you must be a terrorist”; “you must be a paedophile”; ‘your ideas are unscientific and dangerous to children”.

4. The stigma of Religion being [linked with] the cause of anxiety. Comments such as “you just want someone to blame”; “you’re just looking for money and a cause to sue the Church”; “if you’re so angry why don’t you just leave?”

5. Fear of excommunication/disfellowshiping: the ever present threat of discrimination and isolation from the community of belief may be related to anxiety.

6. Added stigma to any of the above if the religious person is a religious leader. Comments such as: “but you’re the minister!” Additional anxiety of religious organisation being the employer and landlord.

Religion and Depression, Anxiety, &c.

Damien — Mon, 28 Oct 2013 01:46:29 GMT

Hello Geoff,

Sadly I am unable to get too far ahead of myself as my studies are semester based, and next semester should involve the first of my practical sessions where I will be out in the community with a mentor and reporting structure to monitor my progress as a student. I have however registered for an intensive course so an entire subject will be "out of the way" in February, and the other unit I am doing 1:1 by Skype with the lecturer as a special favour. I'm actually looking forward to having some mental health study time. 🙂

I'm not super intelligent, just super organised. 😄

I'm interested in metal health for as far back as religion goes, and if you look at my essay (blog linked) you'll see references to the soul care offered by monasteries back in the day. There are of course historical events directed by syphilitic kings, and kings with porphyria (George III), and the Bible also speaks of specifically cursed kings who went mad too. As a Christian I do believe in the spiritual realm and the reality of demons and spirits, but I certainly don't believe that's the whole answer to mental illness.

You never have to apologise for saying how you lost your faith Geoff, or that you don't have one. I understand why people lose confidence in God's goodness or even in God's existence, I have had opportunity to doubt these things but I haven't left entirely. Why? Grace? Maybe. Stubborness more like. 😉

It's always good to talk with you. 🙂

Religion and Depression, Anxiety, &c.

Damien — Mon, 28 Oct 2013 01:57:55 GMT

Wow, so pleased to have won the meat tray David!! I always worry about Elmo, not having eyelids and all...

Some fights are not worth getting in to. I recall the know-it-all scary guy making some comment along the lines of how he became more and more impressed by me with every post of mine he read. I really didn't want to say that the trajectory was in the opposite direction for me, so I said nothing. But as I say, I've been positing over at blueVoices a bit and I've also been doing work with BB in Melbourne and some public speaking advocacy here . (I live in remote/rural South Australia.). I am sad that your equilibrium was thrown out of kilter by the comments received, and yes I am not one for coming to a therapeutic place and getting entwined into arguments...this is part of my concern with Church as you indiicated in your comments on Taylorswiftianity. 😉

I'm here to share in the teaching and learning. My background is in education (I think you know this) I have been a teacher and a school chaplain. I enjoy speaking with others about my life in the ways in which that might be helpful to them, and listening (mainly in silence) to the stories of others. I learned something new from Lillybell in her equation of losing her God with losing her marriage, although happily for her only the first has occurred. I thought that was a great analogy and there was nothing Facetious about that. 😉