topic When it's not healthy to compare the pair! in Staying well

When it's not healthy to compare the pair!

Petra — Sun, 03 Jul 2016 20:18:20 GMT

I believe I cope reasonably well with my anxiety. I have compiled a fabulous mental health tool box over time, full of all sorts of stuff to help me keep balanced and pull it out on any sign of the wobbles. There is one thing that sneaks up on me though, and quickly, and unexpectedly, which can bring me down with a thud .... comparing. I don't spend too much time via media celebrity watching for this reason, have never been big on it, wasn't close enough to home to warrant my attention but a snippet of it, or just seeing others sometimes is a trigger. Once on the 'comparing' track I start with the self loathing eg I'm not good enough, smart enough, pretty enough.... and worse....my husband can do better than me! I know.... (head lowered here).... how much he truly loves me, and would be horrified if I shared this thought with him. Sorry....that's why I'm sharing it with you! This intrusive thinking is downright annoying and unhealthy. This is one bump in my otherwise smooth journey at the moment. I'm seeing a psych soon and this will be one of my opening lines....but just wondering if anyone else has thoughts on 'comparing oneself to others'?

Pet 😊

When it's not healthy to compare the pair!

blondguy — Mon, 04 Jul 2016 02:04:25 GMT

Hi Petra

A great topic and nice to see you too:-) I think many people with or without anxiety disorder 'compare'.

With anxiety disorder we may be more likely to compare as our self esteem is like a 'tennis ball in a tumble dryer'

To be blunt I used to think that I wasnt good enough for my ex girlfriend because of my illness. I would let the thought 'float' by me when I could as it wasnt conducive to my recovery. I think that anxiety can also give our self confidence a hard time too which then can open the door for these thoughts.

Having a 'tired' mind can be a pain as we tend to 'overthink' and create only more anxiety. Well done for booking the doc Pet:-) I have always respected your pro-active attitude.

Kind thoughts

Paulx

When it's not healthy to compare the pair!

Petra — Mon, 04 Jul 2016 04:20:09 GMT

Thanks Paul.

Your reply is a big help.

If I may, I'm going to adopt your 'float' analogy, and send those thoughts 'on their way'! After all, that's how the darn things arrive!

Yes. Sleep, lack of it that is, is a tell-tale sign for me anyway, that I'm a little on the anxious side. I'll keep working away at this.

Downloading to the psych will do me some good, I'm sure. Just being able to write on BB and read other's stories helps me in that I don't feel like I'm the only one.

Thanks again for the encouragement and your reply.

When I'm being proactive and posting with you folk, I'm motivating myself at the same time! My inspiration to keep myself well has always been so I can be of some help to others also. I've had many a carers role. Started young.

I've been anxious for as long as I can remember. I've been on the motivation treadmill from the age of 14 after my dad suicided. My world turned black, the depression and other was mind blowing and all that I knew of my life to that age was busted. The ripple affect of his death hung around for some considerable years. This event left me with permanent scars but is also the catalyst to my keeping well.

I like to fix things, and permanently, so the anxiety, past periods of depression, the fear of relapse, is unwelcome, and always exhausting. I believe I need to accept the 'forever' part of my illnesses and also accept the 'ongoing management' required and JUST DO IT!

Pet 😌

When it's not healthy to compare the pair!

blondguy — Mon, 04 Jul 2016 14:16:35 GMT

Hey Pet

I am the same as you with wanting to fix things permanently. I am actually very proud of you as you have never once mentioned the word 'fight' (as in fight the anxiety) and good on you for that!

I had a crackerjack female GP in 1995 that said and I will quote her "Paul...you will have this anxiety long term". I freaked out and thought 'no way'. ....Until I realised that she only wanted me to 'accept' my own anxiety. It took a few years but after a while I understood that she said it "so my anxiety became boring through acceptance"

Oh my...I hope that made some sense:-)

I only started on Beyond Blue in January this year after weeks alone and was beside myself with depression. The therapeutic benefits of posting on the forums have helped me heal and also meet great people like you Petra:-)

I have been and will be a big fan of yours Pet

My kind thoughts

Paulx

When it's not healthy to compare the pair!

Petra — Mon, 04 Jul 2016 20:35:08 GMT

Paul......yes, yes and YES! You definitely make perfect sense! You have hit the nail on the head for me. I had a lightbulb moment on reading your reply post (brought back to the present promptly as I was burning my toast in the process)!

My suspicion of 'needing to accept the anxiety and the possibility of relapse' is another piece in my puzzle! Although I've been proactive throughout I haven't accepted these illnesses as my 'norm'. Perhaps I'll give my conditions a pet-name...and say hello to my anxiety when it pops up...perhaps ...."you ol' boring chestnut"! As for depression....I'll need some time to think of a pet-name for my black dog. I like the Black dog analogy. Relate well to this one (animal lover). Perhaps I can acklowledge it's existence, pat it on the head, and keep going as I've seen in an animated video on just that. One thing's for sure. I'm not doing it alone like I have mostly done so up to present. Especially now I can be in contact with others who are experiencing similar to myself. Thank heavens for the resources and society acknowledgement of mental illness today.

Thank you for sharing Paul. It takes courage to post. Your reply and your your take on what I said and importantly, didn't say means a great deal to me. A game changer believe me! You're a gem in your reply posts too. Not just to me but to all of us. I too am a fan of yours. Love ya work!

Let's all use our illnesses for good instead of evil!

Signing off....

BB cheerleader Pet 😊

When it's not healthy to compare the pair!

RampantRnr — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 03:28:53 GMT

Hi Pet,

Nice to meet you and thankyou for posting and for sharing some issues which have been particularly challenging for you! I commend you for coming on and letting us know what you're struggling with, and that we are all here to help 🙂

I struggle with a lot of the same comparisons as yourself - in fact I am struggling with it right at this very moment. I am in my own head, convincing myself that my wife will get fed up with me, she will leave me and take my son and that will be it for me. I am continually comparing myself to other people, and really asking myself "why does X look so happy" and "I wish I could smile and laugh like X".

But then I realise, that in life, things happen, and that instead of reacting, I need to be proactive, accept that this is an issue that I am managing as best I can, and not to be too hard on myself. What has worked particularly well for me, is that I journal each morning, and at the end of each morning, I write down 3 things that I am grateful for, and 3 things that I am happy about. Each morning, I add to the list of grateful things/happy feelings and read this aloud. I've really only just started, but I think this is an excellent strategy.

Always here for you Pet! 🙂

When it's not healthy to compare the pair!

Petra — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 19:56:39 GMT

Hello RampantRnr

Thank you for replying to my post. Nice to meet you too, and it feels great knowing you and others are here for me. Thank you.

Sharing experiences and tips on keeping well is something I haven't done too much of, until now. I'm a bit dark on myself for this because I now know that doing so is a huge part of one getting well and keeping well. Up until now, I didn't want too many knowing of my anxiety etc for fear of being thought as unfit eg unfit to be in my job, unfit to be a mum! This of course was and is untrue but did and still does motivate me to work harder at managing myself. A paradox to say the least. It's my job these days that keeps me 'in hiding'! That's why I find BB excellent. Thres so much to gain here. Accelerated learning at its best.

Does your wife know that you are fearful she'll leave you and take your son? I wonder what she'd say if you did tell her. It may help to tell her if not. Generally us other halves like to hear what's bugging our significant other. Can bring us closer, sharing the load, dispelling untruths.

When non-helpful thoughts pop up for you, do you have a tool to send them on their way? I'm going to try Paul's suggestion re 'floating' and let my not so very thoughtful thoughts float right on by without me entertaining, analysing and ingesting them!

Thank you for the tip re the journal and writing 3 things to be happy about. Here's a thought....can you repeat those 3 things when comparing thoughts appear? Fire back at these unhelpful thoughts with your 3 chosen ones for that day? I might give this a go myself. Would you like to also and get back to me?

All the best.

Pet 😊

When it's not healthy to compare the pair!

White_Rose — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 21:25:28 GMT

Hello Petra

It's nice to meet you. Our paths haven't crossed before but it's good to talk to you now. Comparisons are the bane of everyone's life. Even those without a mental illness will compare themselves unfavourably to others. I believe this is because the human race is intrinsically competitive, which has been one of our strengths, and unfortunately one of our least attractive attributes as well.

How lovely you have amassed a large mental health toolbox ready for immediate us. Having only joined the ranks of the depressed in the past 15 years and being quite a stubborn person, I only recently started to add to my 'glory box'.

I gather you have not seen a psych before. Is this a psychologist or psychiatrist? I imagine from your post that it's a psychologist as this seems the most useful in your situation. When these folk are good they are very good.

Believing we are unworthy of love and affection is such a feature of depression and so annoying. We know, intellectually, this not true, but our brains refuse to acknowledge this. One of the more recent advances in our understanding of how the brain works is neuroplasticity. This says our brains are capable of change all through our lifetime, which is different to previously accepted wisdom that said once when we get to 30-40 there is no capacity for change.

It's such a tremendous revelation for us because now we can employ change management in the brain without being told it's pointless. Basically what happens is our brains make default pathways in our thinking and, like any path, the more often it's used the bigger and more defined it becomes. Now we know we are capable of change we can start to forge new paths. When you catch yourself traveling the same old highway you need to make a conscious effort to think along a different path. So instead of why is the person prettier, slimmer, more attractive, clever etc we concentrate on ourselves and think in a different way.

For me it's acknowledging the other and saying, "Do you want to be slimmer" (which I do) "and if so why". My answer is because my doctor will then get off my back about it. Seriously though, my health would improve and I would have more stamina and enjoyment in my life. Well stop hanging about and get on with it.

No it's not quite that easy but that's the general idea. The more we travel a new path the more likely it is to become our default path. Isn't great that computer technology has given us a whole new language?

Mary

When it's not healthy to compare the pair!

Petra — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 04:04:39 GMT

Hi Mary,

Thanks so much for your post. I agree. The comparing is in our nature. When I compare and I'm not in my best place (slightly off balance at present but starting to feel better on the anti anxiety meds) the comparing spirals, hitting the bottom with a bottom line of 'check - not good enough'. Happens quick too. I'm working on this one now and have benefited from the kind words and helpful tips and advice in this post. Not to mention that you all have said it exists! Not being the only one helps, although I empathise with those having to go through it too. Coming up from the spiral is a pain!

I'll take on board what you say about questioning the comparison thingy.... I think I'm right here...... Eg my house is old and small, a cottage. It's me all over but then I'm off kilter, spiral starts with the mention of so and so's new house has this and that, and then bam! I didn't have a problem with my house until then. I should earn more, should've got that Uni degree, etc etc etc. Why am I thinking less of myself because I don't have 3 bathrooms, six bedrooms, and a pool!?" Cranky at myself for even going there.....I'm not materialistic! My response if this should come up again...."imagine the cleaning I'd have to do?" That should surface me to the top with "No way do I envy the big house" ..and I love my house again, and I'm back to being my less-means-more self! Yes, I'm sure this'll work!

I have to say, I've never believed people can't create new pathways in the brain. I had a boss long ago, unhelpful to say the least, used to say often "a leopard never changes it's spots" I agree....re the leopard that is, but not the human race. Thank you for filling me in on this one. I'm no expert but that's downright ridiculous and dangerous people can't change their thinking. I've made a great deal of new pathways in my brain to date. The most being from the age of 36!

I saw a psychologist quite some time ago. She cringed and I never went back! My GP took over with counselling. Helpful man but retired. After that I've been flying solo. I see a psych at the end of this month. 😊

You've helped me out here.

Pet 😊

When it's not healthy to compare the pair!

White_Rose — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 12:53:28 GMT

Hello Petra

I'm doing a bit of late night writing so if I make lots of typos it's because I should be in bed. Shame about the psychologist, but there are good ones out there. Shame about your GP as well. I call it downright selfish to retire when people need him. 😊

It's a long wait to see another psych, but then patience has never been my best feature. I do have a tendency to want results today or preferably yesterday. It never occurred to me that I couldn't learn new things until I was told I was too old to learn to play the piano. If I can learn to make my phone do all the fancy things I'm told it will do I can play the piano.

Great change of thought about your house. And it is so irritating when you become dissatisfied with something you previously loved. Well unless we are talking about husbands and that's a different story.

I can see I have brain fade coming on so had best go to bed.

Mary

When it's not healthy to compare the pair!

Petra — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 19:34:00 GMT

Hi Mary

No problems re writing when tired and making blues. Being a recovering perfectionist, I shrug off my typos and 'predictive test' faux pas, which I discover after posting! I also believe it's time I wore my glasses! After all, that's why they prescribed them!! Hee, hee.

Did you learn the piano later in life, or learning now? I love hearing how people have achieved things they never thought they could. Anything, albeit potty training; mastering technology ie the iPhone!; an instrument; study; all of it.

MIL was losing her sight, found it hard to write letters back home. I taught her to use the PC and set it up with enlarged fonts, bigger letters on the keyboard etc, she was 80 yoa at that time! Dad (FIL) laughed, saying it was a waste of time. We showed him!

PS: I have an ex husband and that is another story!

Pet 😉

Pet 😊

When it's not healthy to compare the pair!

White_Rose — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 21:40:58 GMT

Hello Petra

Well if you want a list of all my accomplishments BB needs to allow more words(?). 😊

Some works are still in progress. Self confidence is one of them, plus learning patience but I am doing quite well there. Still a few problems with anger management but I do believe I am getting better. Or is that wishful thinking? I have learned I can only change myself, not others, to accept help because it's offered and not reject the help because I am not sufficiently worthy. To believe I am loved and cared for. That was a biggy.

Good stuff:- I can use my Galaxy phone with confidence and sent text messages, though not in code as I have no idea what most initialese means, receive and send emails and play Scrabble with my eldest son who lives in Melbourne. I am in Brisbane. Plus I have discovered the world of Apps. BB is there. I managed the piano to some extent but don't play now. I keep saying I will go back to it but never seem to find the time. Not that I'm a procrastinator, just can't make up my mind. I had a house built when I left my husband and to this day I do not know where I found the strength and ability as I was pretty lost then. Went to uni in my late 50s. Discovered I had a working brain.

I was a forward child and learned toilet training quite early in my life.

Well done with your MIL and the computer. It is often the ,relatively, small things that stop us learning new way. Old dogs and new tricks can be said positively in one sentence. Yes, part of me enjoys 'showing them'.

I need glasses now for my embroidery. Also when reading small print. I wonder sometimes about hearing but I have decided I suffer from selective hearing, as do the people who speak to me.

Your comment above, Up until now, I didn't want too many knowing of my anxiety etc for fear of being thought as unfit eg unfit to be in my job, unfit to be a mum! rang many bells with me. The past 18 months have been a huge learning curve about life and me. Surgery, medications interactions, depression going down like an express lift, loss of my psychologist, learning to take care of myself. I am so much better these days and actually want to get out of bed in the morning, well unless it's too cold.

I enjoy reading your posts, so much real life stuff but written with humour. It's good to have a bit of a chuckle about ourselves even as we try our best to be well.

Mary

When it's not healthy to compare the pair!

geoff — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 22:51:27 GMT

hi Petra, well I'm not sure where to begin after all these great replies as so much has been said, but to compare ourselves with someone is always going to happen, but it's how you treat this as competition with them or the other is, good luck to them, because once we feel as though this other person is better than us we then start to worry about what it means and then can create a problem.
We hope that when people read our replies is what can change their mind all for the positive and hopefully start to get them out of being depressed/anxious, but if we are stuck in the same path entrenched with depression it can take quite a bit of work to start them on a new track, and yes if you can 'float' an idea then that's a beginning, because depression only means negative thoughts or could we call them 'intrusive thoughts' and these can happen to two groups of people, one who has OCD and the other group are people struggling to find an answer to their problems.
One is easier to erase while the other seems to continually go on and on all the time and this is if you have OCD, while the other who doesn't have OCD can be overcome with help. Geoff. x

When it's not healthy to compare the pair!

Petra — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 20:04:55 GMT

Hi Mary, I laughed and laughed re you being a forward child! My Mother makes me out to have been one of those too! Bless her delusional, proud heart! Apparently, I did the same, and other miraculous stuff as a baby! It wore off as I got older!!

Thank you for recognising my humour for what it is. A coping mechanism for me I guess, in an otherwise unwanted predicament of having to manage my mental health, and my work can be 'mental' heavy!

Think of me when you are doing your embroidery. I envy your ability here. I want so much to be able to do this and other creative work. It's on my bucket list though. For now it's gardening and being creative using media. I'll get there most likely in retirement. I've inherited MIL's embroidery tools and threads, quilting material and knitting implements. I have oodles of books on the subjects too.

Thanks so much for sharing Mary. I really enjoyed reading your reply. I think we may just have a similar sense of humour! Hoping this is a compliment of course! 😁

Pet 😊

When it's not healthy to compare the pair!

Petra — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 20:31:53 GMT

Hi Geoff

So pleased to see your smiling face, and much loved doggy. I'm a Noah's ark kind a girl. Live in the country with my furry and feathery family!

Thank you for posting here. There's always room for more advice on this subject. Just posting about my annoying comparing thingy has helped, and then the advice and chat from others more so. I really appreciate the support. I'm sure the psych will expand on the subject. I'm hoping so because once things are explained I can start working on a strategy to 'treat' that suits me. Until then I flap about not really 'getting it'. I was one of those children that always asked "why?". Who am I kidding...I still do that. Just ask my boss! I'm not good at competing with others. Preferring to stand by someone as opposed to on top of them. I'm pretty much the 2IC, co- pilot. The physical need to buy the latest BMW is not a driving factor (excuse the pun) for me in my life. I'm too practical with money and logical so when the thoughts invade me eg "I'm not good enough because I don't have a BMW, or don't have Botox to smooth out my wrinkles, and give me a nice pair of duck lips" confuses me! I wonder where this is coming from and then get cranky with myself for going that far. Thankfully I don't act on these thoughts of 'lack'.....heavens....my husband would clutch his chest, panting frantically if I came home looking like Daffy Duck!

Now....if I win a BMW in a raffle....that's acceptable!!

Pet 😊

When it's not healthy to compare the pair!

White_Rose — Fri, 08 Jul 2016 03:30:33 GMT

Hello Petra

I learned to sew and knit in primary school and have continued with these hobbies on and off all my life. For me it's a huge effort to get the world out of my head, but making what I hope are lovely things gives me that relief. Writing here on BB keeps me focused. When I write I find I am talking to myself as much as the other person and it is quite amazing how something will pop into focus at the most unexpected times.

I read the MBTI personality traits in the BB Social Zone and could not recall what type I was. Did the test many years ago. No idea what I was before but I think this result was spot on. For me that was a huge leap forward. Not because I discovered something new but because I finally accepted what and how I was. And the most important part of that was I was not special in any way. I am an ordinary person with certain traits, not necessarily good or bad unless I choose to use them in one way or another. I can recognise the things I do well and why, and also why other events have such a huge impact on me.

Yes indeed, we do have a similar sense of humour. I realised that from the first post of yours that I read. Now here's a lady who knows where it's at. And it's useful to be able to ease tensions with a bit of a joke, although that has backfired a couple of times. However I still press on. Readers Digest says it truly, Laughter is the Best Medicine. I cannot imagine living in a world where laughter was forbidden.

Having finished my chores, except for getting the washing in, I thought I had the rest of Friday and the weekend free to play. But I forgot I had another appointment later this afternoon and I need to cook so that when my grandson comes home at 10:30 pm he has something to eat. He is an apprentice chef so has all the benefits of split shifts and long hours. I am usually in bed by then but he can reheat the spaghetti bolognaise without a problem.

I am not sure if I am a competitor or not. On the whole I think I have everything I want or need to live comfortably and although I see lovely mansions and fantasize about living in one, I think the truth is closer to your comment. Think of cleaning all those bathrooms. But then I don't clean my home as it is, I have a cleaner. I went through cycles of guilt because of this until a friend said it was just about choices and what you wanted to spend your time doing. Now I enjoy having a clean house without doing anything.

Mary

When it's not healthy to compare the pair!

Clues_Of_Blue — Fri, 08 Jul 2016 07:00:40 GMT

Hi Petra,

I don't typically spend much time comparing myself to others, but I do chronically compare myself to myself, if that makes sense. There was a time before I was clinically depressed. I was stronger, things didn't get to me half as easily. In essence, I still sometimes get angry with myself when I can't push through the mental barriers my depression throws up. I wonder if my other half will get sick of my moods and illness.

Unlike Paul though, I'm not one to let those thoughts float by. Which isn't to say I let them bury me, either. I am an analytical, logical and practical person. I grab those thoughts and dissect them, to analyse every little bit for validity or lack thereof, and I will follow through with the comparison to the nth degree. No, I am not as impervious to little negatives as I once was. So in analysing that, I look at what has happened in my life, and why that is so. I have been though X, Y and Z which I hadn't when I was doing better, therefore, the cause and effect is I am not doing so well with the same things, now. Of itself that's not fantastic, but I can give myself some understanding, having acknowledged that. Next... how has that changed me? Yes, I'm a bit more sensitive. I don't like it. However, it has given me a greater understanding for the experience of others (which I rather lacked before, as I wasn't one to feel much or pay attention to it when I did), has forced me to engage with and better understand my own emotions, and has overall improved my ability to interact with other people. There are some things about it I don't like, there is some good to come of the bad, and I have a goal I can research and work toward: to improve my ability to cope with setbacks. Analysis complete, conclusion largely positive.

Or when it came to something like my weight, at the time I looked at what I weighed before and why (I was more focused on my mind than indulging my body), concluded that my lifestyle and cognitive changes were unacceptable, so I set a goal and lost weight, also working toward putting myself in the way of more mental stimulation. Sometimes comparisons have their uses, and analysing why we compare and if there's any sense to it can lead to positive change.

When it's not healthy to compare the pair!

Clues_Of_Blue — Fri, 08 Jul 2016 07:11:20 GMT

When I do have rare moments of comparing my life with that of others, again, it's analysis. Remember that your experience and priorities aren't the same as those of other people. For my part I've come from a financial shambles, and everything I have in those terms has been won from a position well behind the norm and has been a fight to get. So the guy with a nice car also had an affluent family or job opportunities I didn't, or money mattered more to him than it does to me, so he has that and I don't. I'm more interested in time to just be, and to build my relationships and keep them healthy than I ever was in money, so that's where I've put my energy. Chances are I'm doing better in those areas than he is. It all evens out in the wash.

Mary, it's by chance I wandered onto this thread and spotted your comment on the MBTI thread. I'm really glad to know that has been of some help to you. I agree with you about humour, too. I stuffed up my finances so bad this week by forgetting I hadn't taken my grocery money out of my account before I paid the bills. It was such a supremely distractable INTP thing to do, I had to laugh. Then I raided my other half's cupboard for some toilet paper...

Blue.

When it's not healthy to compare the pair!

Melissa74 — Fri, 08 Jul 2016 12:25:51 GMT

I just never feel worthy enough. Always feel like no one likes me including my family.

My catch cry "why would anyone love me". A lifetime of never feeling good enough just a failure.

When it's not healthy to compare the pair!

White_Rose — Fri, 08 Jul 2016 21:19:42 GMT

Dear Melissa

I am so sorry you feel this way. It's such an dreadful feeling to believe no one cares about you. Can you tell us more about yourself? On Beyond Blue everyone is cared for so you are quite safe here. No one will think you unlovable. We are here to help and care for you as much as we can.

Can you explain a bit about not feeling worthy? And tell us about your family if you can. Sometimes it is hard to talk about these things but writing can be a little easier. Do you feel you are compared to others and end up as the less nice one? If you want to talk about comparing yourself or others, please feel free to continue posting. I would love to continue talking to you.

If you want to talk about something else can you start a new thread? I say this because your post in the middle of Petra's will not be seen by many people. Your own thread will be seen by more people who can respond about your issues. I will certainly reply to you if you choose to start another thread. Just let me know.

Don't be afraid to talk to us, we do not bite and we would love to chat to you.

Mary