topic "You are not being reasonable"! in Staying well

"You are not being reasonable"!

white knight — Thu, 30 Jun 2016 12:57:55 GMT

Ever been told that?

Being told that means it came from someone else right? Of course.

And you scratch your head, that thing that holds all of your low self esteem, guilt and that non productive thing called worry.

So what is reason? Or being reasonable?

Let's look at law to bring this into perspective.

As a jury member in a trial, you'll each be asked to find the defendant guilty or not guilty. To come to a result you have to base your decision of guilt based upon "beyond reasonable doubt".

That's it!. It is based on YOUR decision and the other 11 jurors collective findings of some point beyond reasonable doubt.

So if you follow me on this, being reasonable is a point defined by the individual. Everyone has a different dividing line of what reasonable is.

This point of reason can be a common area of conflict. Ever had an argument with a friend about your location as he/she holds the map upside down?. The conflict doesn't commence because the map isn't facing right way up, its because your friend is certain they are correct and because of that they refuse to (in your words to him/her) " BE REASONBLE"!!!! I AM RIGHT"!!!

In their eyes they are being reasonable...after all they have listened to you tell them the map is the wrong way up and discounted it. You on the other hand find them to be totally unreasonable for not taking your claims seriously.

So you argue. Then suddenly you look at the map...it wasn't upside down at all. In such a case it was you that wasn't reasonable by not confirming the map position.

Can you see that in this instance, being reasonable is a personal view of a situation that likely if in conflict, is based on your own individual judgement.

That example was to explain the complexities of human disagreements and why the claim of "you're not being reasonable" is used so often. Simply because you are not seeing a situation how someone else sees it.

So in times of conflict by trying to be reasonable means not just giving in and agreeing with the other party, but attempting to see why they think that way. Then if you still believe you are correct stick to your beliefs. Don't allow others to rule your right to your own decision making. I.e don't be too submissive.

However if you are proved wrong then apologise. That will mean you are fair and being fair is giving reason every chance of being present when it matters.

Tony WK

"You are not being reasonable"!

JessF — Tue, 12 Jul 2016 23:48:36 GMT

Hello Tony, 'reasonable' is definitely a sliding scale! I like the idea of trying to understand why the other person thinks the way they do. In the case of an argument, it may still mean that you are right, but if you come from a place of understanding it can stop thinks escalating into further unpleasantness.

This morning I had to pop into the supermarket before going to work, and on my way rushing out, I happened to catch the eye of an older, dishevelled looking man quite by accident. He yelled 'what are you effing looking at'. It gave me quite a fright, and my first instinct was to shout back at him, but after my heart rate returned to normal (!) I realised that he was probably unwell and taking out his anger on the world was his way of feeling some kind of control. Doesn't excuse the behaviour of course, but it meant I was able to get on with my day and not be too upset by it.

"You are not being reasonable"!

blondguy — Wed, 13 Jul 2016 00:45:53 GMT

Hey Tony

'Just be reasonable'....That can be a red flag to a bull. If I can translate that from my point of view.."c'mon Im always right why cant you see that you are wrong"

I learned early to acknowledge when I am wrong and apologise accordingly but I do have a dislike when I am being 'told' to think along someone else's lines. Life is too short to caress other peoples ego's

My Best

Paul

"You are not being reasonable"!

white knight — Wed, 13 Jul 2016 01:35:11 GMT

JessF, oh yes aren't our primeval reactions amazing, in your case to yell back is an automatic defence mechanism. Then you realise that he is unwell, perhaps angry with the world. In the end you were reasonable. How do we gauge that?

I suppose if we asked 100 people if you acted reasonable 90% would say yes, 10% would focus on why you "stared" at him and say you weren't reasonable. The odds are in your favour.

"You are not being reasonable"!

white knight — Wed, 13 Jul 2016 02:00:53 GMT

Paul,

Apologising is honourable. I suppose over the years I've ran tired if how many people are clearly in error and don't apologise. It kind of leaves you wondering why we leave ourselves open so readily to being so honest forever apologising to others....that should give us dignity but I feel we lose some in the process. Is it more reasonable to ask others to apologise when they are in error? Unfortunately many will refuse because the words "lm sorry I was wrong" isn't in their vocabulary.

As for being asked what you are thinking.

I had a mother that is a narcissist and was forever asking what I was thinking. I'd reply only to be barraged of my thoughts not bring 100% in her favour.

Peter Brock in an interview was asked what he was thinking on a certain topic. He said "whatever I'm thinking is an extremely private matter". He made the point that he reserved the right, the basic human right if privacy of mind.

So nowadays in the rare event I'm asked what I think, I'll say " what I think is personal but I will offer you my opinion" my opinion being the amount if information from what I think that ....I'm willing to share openly.

Tony WK

"You are not being reasonable"!

blondguy — Wed, 13 Jul 2016 09:45:47 GMT

Hey Tony, I have had this for years off many people " I'd reply only to be barraged of my thoughts not bring 100% in her favour. Whether its a relative or a girlfriend.

I respect the quote you gave ex Peter Brock...so true. Paul

"You are not being reasonable"!

Elizabeth CP — Fri, 15 Jul 2016 12:38:51 GMT

I really like this statement So in times of conflict by trying to be reasonable means not just giving in and agreeing with the other party, but attempting to see why they think that way. Then if you still believe you are correct stick to your beliefs. Don't allow others to rule your right to your own decision making. I.e don't be too submissive.However if you are proved wrong then apologise. That will mean you are fair and being fair is giving reason every chance of being present when it matters.'' A person I know often reminds her children 'You can only control yourself. You cannot control others' In other words you may not like what others do or say but it is up to you how you react. As a parent of strong minded children I learnt early on that telling them what to do was a waste of time but if I asked them & I explained why I needed some help they were very cooperative.

The bottom line is we need to act in a manner that reflects our values being considerate & respectful towards others & apologising when appropriate but if others do not reciprocate then that is their choice. by acting consistant with our own values we should feel good about ourselves regardless of others opinions.

"You are not being reasonable"!

blondguy — Fri, 15 Jul 2016 12:47:36 GMT

Nice post Elizabeth..you think the same way I do..we have the same bottom line

Great post Tony WK

"You are not being reasonable"!

white knight — Fri, 15 Jul 2016 14:31:09 GMT

Thanks Paul.

Elizabeth, good point in terms if only controlling yourself.

Eg. 1980. I a rangers uniform at 42 degrees in Melbourne. Lady with 3kuds had a flat tyre. I changed it for her. My uniform was saturated. She drove off with not sign if gratitude. I was angry.

Then I wondered. Did I change her wheel for gratitude or for thanks? As you would point out Elizabeth, I could not change her as the rude person she appeared. Or was she exhausted from the heat and minding her kids that were also overheated?

Yes, we can't change people and as princess Diana once said, " random acts of kindness for no reward in the hope that one day someone will do that for you if in need"

I went away with faith. Faith that she forget or was distressed. My thankyou didn't matter. Being human mattered.

Tony WK

"You are not being reasonable"!

Elizabeth CP — Sat, 16 Jul 2016 10:35:19 GMT

By acknowledging to ourselves that we have done the right thing we allow ourselves to feel good about what we did -a blessing for us with fragile self esteem. relying on others reactions can lead to disappointment & other negative feelings which we don't need.

"You are not being reasonable"!

Just Sara — Sat, 16 Jul 2016 14:59:03 GMT

Hey Tony;

Interesting topic. I've read all posts and would like to add my view if that's ok.

I once read that during conflict we have a choice; try and 'win', allow the other to have their way because it's not really important in the scheme of things, or engage in a debate to find clarity or bring something out in the open. You're right Tony; being reasonable is subjective.

I have a vivid memory of watching tv when I was a teen. My mum came over and said something about the dolphin I was watching. I told her it was a Killer Whale. She argued and berated me for disagreeing with her then walked off. At the conclusion of the program I called out to her; "Look Mum!" She came over and I showed her the Program Name on the screen; 'The story of the killer whale' in block letters. It was a moment I knew I was right and could prove it. She looked at the tv, then said quite magnanimously; "It's a bloody dolphin!" then walked off.

Conflicting opinions are also about 'intent'. I never forgot this scenario; it proved to me that arguing with her was useless because she'd 'win' at any cost, even with her own young daughter. The truth or facts had nothing to do with it. So, growing up in my home was about power and always being on the losing side no matter what.

With age and experience, I tried several ways to feel empowered around her. In the early days I just let her have her way because this felt safer. But maturing and having my own child, I had to change to accommodate being a role model for him. So I asserted my opinion if I felt it was important. The first time I said "No' to her I thought she was going to throw herself out of the car!

Was my mother reasonable? Absolutely not! Could I have asked her to be reasonable? Absolutely not! Her need to win was more important than humility, integrity, empathy or reason.

I've had people say; "Why can't you just be reasonable about this?" This was always at times they wanted me to agree with them or do what they wanted me to do. It never really was about 'reasonable'. It was about winning and power.

From my end, feeling I was allowed to speak up for myself was more important. That to me is reasonable.

Cheers Dizzy x

"You are not being reasonable"!

white knight — Sun, 17 Jul 2016 13:29:57 GMT

Hi Dizzy

Your post made a lot of sense. Loved it.

Thankyou Tony WK

"You are not being reasonable"!

Elizabeth CP — Fri, 22 Jul 2016 10:03:44 GMT

The important thing you learnt as a child was that arguing with her was useless because she'd 'win' at any cost, even with her own young daughter. The truth or facts had nothing to do with it." In other words arguing with some people is a waste of time & effort. In other words pick your battles. If you know someone won't listen no matter what then they have lost not you. With a more reasonable person you can discuss things & both will gain understanding of each other's point of view . Dizzy your mum was on the losing side because she lost the chance to build a good relationship with her daughter & she lost the chance to gain more understanding by listening to others.

"You are not being reasonable"!

white knight — Fri, 22 Jul 2016 15:01:56 GMT

Great reply Elizabeth.

Tony WK

"You are not being reasonable"!

Just Sara — Sat, 23 Jul 2016 00:17:35 GMT

Thankyou Elizabeth;

When I left home as a teen, I tried to create routine's, habits etc that separated me from my family dynamics. It was difficult due to triggers and over the yrs I met many people like my mum. Anger was usually my first reaction, but I've learnt better communication styles now.

Being heard and validated is so important to me and rightly so. This thread is about being reasonable; as Tony says it's a subjective interpretation of a situation or conversation and desired outcomes. I don't think I've ever used that term with anyone. I guess I may have thought it, but it's usually when I'm not being heard.

You're also correct with my mum not cultivating a better relationship with me and this is her loss. But I also have to remember where she came from. Her childhood was a battle and very sad. I know this isn't an excuse, but we often talk about our own early days and the affect on us. It's the same with her.

I suppose this is my way of being reasonable and accepting she's flawed. I've learned good skills in protecting myself from her opinionated garbage, and this is the important thing.

Thanks again...Dizzy x

"You are not being reasonable"!

white knight — Sat, 23 Jul 2016 16:38:26 GMT

Hi dizzy

Re your last paragraph

Good. And answering her like "if you think so" is the best way. You aren't endorsing her but you are answering her.

Tony WK