topic Do You Like Yourself? Your Thoughts are Welcome! in Staying well

Do You Like Yourself? Your Thoughts are Welcome!

blondguy — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 16:52:06 GMT

Hello Everybody and new posters especially:-)

I have had anxiety since 1983 and depression from 1997. There is always someone that says 'You have to Love Yourself' before recovery. When people are suffering from anxiety/depression this may be the last 'advice' they really need. This is only my experience when I am 'advised to love myself' to rebuild my life. I have heard the following from people that cant 'love themselves' which is fair enough as I am a person that cant either. Your thoughts will help me and others learn from your point of view. I can only be 'gentle' to myself to heal...not love.

Why should I love myself if I dont in the first place?
I am in a dark place, how can I love myself?
I dont deserve to love myself
I am depressed...How can I love myself?
I have mega anxiety attacks..what is there to love about myself?
I hate myself and what I stand for...why should I?
I love my partner more...I will care about myself 'later'

When people have depression/anxiety/denial they dont need to be counseled with ' love yourself'. Thats a huge ask.

I dont need to climb Mt Everest by trying to love myself when I cant. It can be an unrealistic and even silly target to achieve having depression

I just prefer to be 'gentle' to myself. Same results and way less stress 🙂 Your thoughts/opinions are more than welcome

Thankyou so much

Paul

Do You Like Yourself? Your Thoughts are Welcome!

geoff — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 19:36:14 GMT

dear Paul, a good post and I'm sure it applies to most of us.
You're absolutely right when a psych tells you that you have to love yourself and you're full of depression/anxiety it seems to be a ridulous comment, and looking back we tend to laugh and can't understand why they say it, especially when you're only crying and can't even talk.
'No doc' what I need to do is find out where I am sitting and why has this happened and not told to be 'love myself', how could I possibily do that, so don't make these silly comments to me, but what you can do is teach me how I can love myself.
So the psych goes through all the options of what you did love to do, but you reject what they say because you have lost all interest to do any of them, so all of your points except the last one are included in what I have just mentioned, because 'I love my partner more...I will care about myself later is different.
Are we trying to love our partner first just to keep our marriage/partnership/family from breaking up, but do we have to pretend that our mood is OK by doing this, which isn't really helping ourselves, well that's what I had to do before the big crunch that I was heading towards, but nothing changed at home so that's when I fell to rock bottom and had my break-down and then nothing mattered.
To love our spouse/partner first before we take care of ourselves means that they too have to reciprocate their love for us and not reject us, because rejection only means danger for us. Geoff.

Do You Like Yourself? Your Thoughts are Welcome!

blondguy — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 19:46:56 GMT

Dear Geoff, thankyou for your wisdom and your personal experience. Having a partner that can reciprocate their love to us being a carer for them is crucial. I have been where you have Geoff where rejection is concerned with depression. I think the term 'Soul Destroying' is an understatement. My Best. Paul

Do You Like Yourself? Your Thoughts are Welcome!

Clues_Of_Blue — Sat, 16 Jul 2016 04:58:12 GMT

Paul, I don't struggle with loving myself the way you do. You know I'm quite at peace with myself on that level. I do, however agree that "love yourself" is a damn stupid thing to say to someone who is in a dark place like you've been in. Comes in line with "think positive". It's a bit like telling someone with half their arm torn off to stop bleeding. Apply a bloody tourniquet or cauterise it and teach the patient what to do after the initial treatment. For a person who doesn't know how, learning to love oneself isn't easy. Starting with being gentle with yourself seems like a good plan, to me. I guess when it comes to loving yourself, it's a matter of finding a place where you feel worthy of that gentleness. Do you ever find yourself being ill-treated by someone and thinking "I don't deserve this"? If you do, you might be closer to the right track than you think.

Geoff, I can identify with your experience on that. My ex and I were both suffering depression and I was always the one holding things together. I didn't exactly pretend I was okay, but I pushed through it and struggled more and more with it as time went on. The more it showed, the more I was rejected by him and the worse it got, so I got to the stage too, where it just didn't matter any more. If it's so shattering for someone with my healthy self-esteem, I can only imagine how bad it would be if I lacked that fondness for myself. I guess part of being gentle with oneself and learning to love oneself is being careful who we keep close to us, people who can see the good in us and encourage us instead of that rejection. It takes time to learn to recognise the signs early on, of people we should steer clear of, but it's a worthwhile skill to pay attention to and develop. The people and situations we have in our environment can have a significant influence on how we see ourselves.

Blue.

Do You Like Yourself? Your Thoughts are Welcome!

White_Rose — Sat, 16 Jul 2016 05:56:36 GMT

Paul

Every time I think you have exhausted your options on new topics you come up with another. Now that's not a sign of a depressed brain. You can't be creative and depressed (can you?)

Loving yourself is such a huge topic. Yes I've had people tell me 'you need to love yourself' as well as the 'think positive' crap. There are people walking around now that have no idea how lucky they are I didn't hit them over the head with a blunt instrument, as described in detective stories.

Having said that, what is the motivation for getting well? Is it love or care for our families? And if so, where did that love come from? Love for our families is a deep well of care for those "nearest and dearest". If we truly have no care or love for ourselves how do we recognise our love for others?

Have many would-be suicides say they believe their families will be better off without them? We read it here quite frequently. And these suicidal people believe they are acting in the best interests of their families because they love these families. Why else do they want to die?

If we are able to block off any love or regard for ourselves we will also block off love and regard for anyone else. Not my words, this is what the psychs etc say. If we really believe, for whatever reason, we are totally unlovable including self love, why would we care if our families are suffering? Doesn't make sense. We certainly don't do it because we are told to do so.

Loving your spouse is great and helps to motivate us to get well (hopefully). But how do you recognise this love if you do not apply it to yourself. NOTE I am not talking about attraction in general or any sexual affection or attraction. I am speaking of that desire to be with the other no matter what. Nine-day wonders are just that, not the kind of affection and care I presume we are all talking about.

Love in humans is not known or practised in a vacuum. We are the clever, clever race, as the anthropologists tell us. Or maybe they have found a better description. Even so we have not yet learned to love anyone or everyone without directing some of that love towards ourselves. In fact it comes from and to us first.

Just because we fail to recognise it at times does not mean it is non-existent. And depression is that time we fail to notice. We are good at not noticing anything then. This is why we need others to remind us of what we already know but refuse to acknowledge. It's the manner of that reminder which is at fault.

Mary

Do You Like Yourself? Your Thoughts are Welcome!

white knight — Sat, 16 Jul 2016 06:43:08 GMT

In fact, with myself Mary, I can be depressed because I'm now being creative enough.

I think with psychs or GPs telling us to love ourselves we need to at all times remain truthful to ourselves. Discount those expectations that are not realistic.

Like yourself for those attributes that you know are endearing, quality parts of your character that shine...not shine above what others do, it isn't a competition with others, its a competition between you and your best.

I have a friend with a foot injury. Her insurance just paid her out, so its a lifelong injury. She is depressed. I feel like shaking her as she has 6 beaut grandkids etc etc. But to her, her injury is huge. If I did that, tell her that her disability is minor wouldn't that be like a psych telling us to love ourselves.?

I don't love myself at all. I admire myself when I overcome problems, design caravans and build them, and so on, especially when encouraged by positive comments. But love myself? Likely not possible.

Tony WK

Do You Like Yourself? Your Thoughts are Welcome!

White_Rose — Sat, 16 Jul 2016 06:53:46 GMT

Oh Tony, I wasn't saying it's OK for psychs to tell us to love ourselves. My point is that we already do that but cannot recognise it. We need to be reminded gently, in empathy and compassion, not ordered to do so as if we are idiot children. I do not react well to that sort of thing at all.

People who are depressed etc usually have the caring gene which is what makes them vulnerable to hurt and depression. It's also a good gene because we really care and empathise with others. If we don't love each other and ourselves the world is in a bad way.

Mary

Do You Like Yourself? Your Thoughts are Welcome!

hope4joy — Sat, 16 Jul 2016 06:59:48 GMT

Hello lovely people, and what an interesting thread!

So much is popping into my mind. But I guess the thing at the forefront is that in order to look at this we need to define what love means. It is a bit of an illusive thing, and is often considered an action. And to me, well I get very angry at empty sentiments. I know people mean well - but to me action is always the most convincing / heart-felt.

The most uncomplicated love I have in my life now is my house-mates cat charlotte. To show my love to her i look after her needs - food, fresh water, letting her out. I give her loving attention (patting) and I really love the cat-smell of her. I accept her annoying traits (waking me up at 3am because she's cold and wants to sleep on my bed, ignoring me at times when i want her to sit on my lap etc) and I see her as a gorgeous positive little being.

So if I were to love myself, I'd say that I'd be good at taking care of my needs - physical, emotional, mental and spiritual. The physical ones I do pretty well - emotional and mental - so so - and spiritual yes I'd say i meet them through following my passion and also how i see the world. So I'd say that I'm growing self love. I guess to really fully love myself would mean accepting myself as I am and meeting my needs for connection more. My negative self judgements often get in the way of connecting with people and ignoring my needs.

I dunno, food for thought anyway. I'm not a fan of fake positive psychology, where you jump to some new extreme, but I do believe in faking it till you make it and reframing things to get a more balanced and positive perspective. We can choose how we see life /events - so why not choose the version that leads to our mental health? I don't mean lying to oneself... just choosing the way that respects, encourages and supports ourself. Builds self love perhaps? Cause its all in the actions I reckon... action brings about change. Its okay if we don't always feel it.

Kindness, Christina 🙂

Do You Like Yourself? Your Thoughts are Welcome!

blondguy — Sun, 17 Jul 2016 08:35:43 GMT

Hi Bluguru. Thankyou for your reply. I liked what you wrote and I quote " that "love yourself" is a damn stupid thing to say to someone who is in a dark place" Thankyou for your clarification and logic on this. Paulx

Do You Like Yourself? Your Thoughts are Welcome!

white knight — Sun, 17 Jul 2016 13:15:20 GMT

"Loving yourself"

Perhaps it's easier to corral what you don't love about yourself.

Its my personality.

Ever tried to get along with a group of other kids and you don't because you aren't "cool". Or slim, or good at expressing humour as you are always serious? You just don't fit in?

But alone in my shed I'm in love with my creativity, my self taught abilities, my solitaire.... My spirit that nobody can harm. I'm safe from sarcasm, deceipt, rejection, theft of my goodwill and so on.

I limit my appearances in events at my small town to remain in that safety zone...too elusive to come to peoples mind when wanting volunteers (I consider bb work enough) and close enough to be respected which makes me feel good.

It isn't all about me, its all about my comfort zone which is vital.

Harking back to my youth. My mother controlled so much of my character she owned me, to develop who she believed I should be, insisted she know what i thought. No place for being alone or free.

I recall at 27yo she insisted I break up with my gf. I had to remind her that she had her opportunity to marry whom she pleased ...I will do as I please. How can a parents child ever love themselves if a parent treated you as plasticine?

" love yourself Tony" is not possible. But....I can get comfortable safe in the knowledge that it is the best I can do with the cards I've been dealt and with my ability to care for others, with that care gene (hope4joy thanks) then I can love my efforts.

Tony WK

Do You Like Yourself? Your Thoughts are Welcome!

blondguy — Sun, 17 Jul 2016 13:27:51 GMT

Hi Christina, thankyou for your reply. I always read what you have to post and am a great admirer of you. I love what you wrote and if I can quote you "I guess to really fully love myself would mean accepting myself"

You are spot on and I may get criticized for this but I dont accept myself very well so in the meantime I will be 'gentle' to myself as I dont really like my own thoughts or level of self worth. Thankyou again for your reply 🙂

Paulx

Do You Like Yourself? Your Thoughts are Welcome!

james1 — Sun, 17 Jul 2016 13:28:04 GMT

Hi Paul,

I really like your post! I feel like every time I talk to my friends, nobody gets it! It's like they're trying to help and I know they're trying, but it's just not something they can empathise with. In the end I just get so fed up that I stop telling them, or I tell them to just listen because I'm not looking for comfort, just an ear.

Here are my thoughts:
- I don't love myself. I don't even know what that would feel like so it just seems like a hard thing to do, especially when sometimes I just feel so terrible about myself.
- I don't want to be told to love myself either, as if that was the only way a normal human being could function. It makes me feel even more wrong, and that's not a nice feeling.
- I take comfort in knowing that I love other people and some people love me. And in many ways, that's enough to ease my mind.
- I sometimes feel confident in myself, but I wouldn't call it love.
- Maybe the last two are steps in the direction of loving myself? I don't know, but if it comes it comes and if it doesn't, well, that doesn't bother me either.

James

Do You Like Yourself? Your Thoughts are Welcome!

blondguy — Sun, 17 Jul 2016 13:37:54 GMT

Hey James1......Thankyou for you post! You have helped me by letting me know that I am not the only person on the block with my thinking 🙂

We have spoken before and even though I not an expert, you have lot offer on the forums. You just made my day!

Your input is a bonus and a help to many others on the forums. I hope you have the time to keep posting with your experience and views where you are comfortable

My kind thoughts James

Paul

Do You Like Yourself? Your Thoughts are Welcome!

QldMouse — Sun, 17 Jul 2016 22:46:40 GMT

Thank you Blond Guy for the thread, and thanks Mary for the pointer.

I've been told that "you have to love yourself first" BS many times over the years.If I have to find a way to love myself before I have any chance of being loved then I'm sunk already. I get that it is wrong, but my self esteem has been directly linked to how loved and wanted I have felt, so it has never been high.

My current therapist is the first to put it as a long term goal with a plan to get there. I'm trying to be nicer to myself as a first step, and moderate my inner voice. We have inventoried my good points, and debated if a few are good or not. I count being emotional as a negative and she counts it as a positive. I think I heard Mary chuckle. Anyway as the exercises go on, the plan is to eventually get to self love. That is the theory, still skeptical. And yes, not happy about the "eventually" bit. Still hoping for the instant pill.

And hi to Christina, yes if I felt better about myself I would take better care of myself, as high maintenance as I am and as much work as I need. But I have been giving more of me to me, as unnatural as that feels.

I know everyone is different, but a few strategies rather than an impossible goal statement would be good.

IMHO.

Do You Like Yourself? Your Thoughts are Welcome!

blondguy — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 14:06:05 GMT

Hi IMHO, Paul here...a belated thankyou for your reply 🙂 I usually try to respond to every reply but I missed yours. I just want to quote you on a great point you made....."I've been told that "you have to love yourself first" BS many times over the years"

You are a smart and quick Queensland mouse...:-)

Your compliment is more than welcome and it means a lot..

My Best

Paul

Do You Like Yourself? Your Thoughts are Welcome!

Starwolf — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 02:57:02 GMT

Hi everybody and thanks Paul for another interesting thread.

Loving myself has been an impossibility. I was considered a failure from the word go. How can an unwanted child or one who is not what parents expect her to be love herself ?

My life would make your average rodeo bull/bronc ride feel like a walk in the park. Some of it was totally out of my control, some of it was caused by my inclination to reproduce the only pattern I knew. I think that self love is linked to self forgiveness. It took years to realize that expecting to win a game with a lousy hand is unrealistic. That my perceived inadequacy at handling people and situations was firmly grounded in this negative past. How can a building withstand raging elements when its foundations are set in shifting sand ?

It is only by putting stubbornness, defiance, anger and rebelliousness to a positive use -for a change- that this self-hatred gradually gave way. A change of attitude, viewing things from a different perspective turned them around. Seeing oneself as wounded instead of flawed allows healing to begin.

So do I love myself now ? No, but I have stopped hating myself. I can understand that my past stuff ups and other people's stuff ups have caused problems and left scars. I can give myself credit for resolving what I could and accept what I couldn't fix (but kept trying). I have learned a lot along the way, trod where few have the opportunity to go, so I am grateful for the ride...and pleased with myself that I survived it against the odds.

Not loving oneself has a great advantage : it leaves room for improvement. Whatever our personality and circumstances, I believe that learning is Life's purpose and that we all are works in progress till the end of our allotted time.

Do You Like Yourself? Your Thoughts are Welcome!

Murrigirl — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 03:19:16 GMT

Hi Paul, Thank you for your post. I smiled often when I read it and thought OMG - I have this very conversation in my head over and over. I too find it hard to love myself. Not because I am not a nice person, but because I got to the point that nothing mattered because of my depression and anxiety. I don't understand the demons in my head sometimes, and I find myself unlovable even to myself. HOWEVER, and it is a big however Paul, I have learnt this also: If I can't love myself, I can do the next best thing which is to look after myself. Even if that is to get up in the morning, shower and dress neatly and tidy. My mother (rest her soul) often said - no matter what house you live in, whether there are cracks in the wall, or missing windows (so my life) there is no reason or excuse not to keep the house clean, tidy and functioning. So I started doing the next best thing. If I cant love the person in the mirror, the next best thing I can do is make the person I don't love (me) look like she hasn't crawled out from under the bridge. I learnt that "OK I have difficulty loving me, but hey, I do love the way I do this......."so I did more of the things I did love. As silly as some things were such as I love the way I cook eggs, I love the way I can braid my daughters hair etc. I just did them over and over. Then I found, I found more things I loved. Eventually I stopped looking in the mirror with self loathing, I looked in the mirror acknowledging "yes I don't love you much but heck you cook eggs so well, so even though I don't love you, I have to like you a little bit - because those eggs are great" Paul the self loathing does get less if you can find even one thing that you can say you are proud of or love. I still suffer very badly from depression and anxiety. I still have days where I can not go to work and can not get out of my bed even, but I have stopped lying in that bed thinking I am worthless and unlovable, because OMG do I ever cook great eggs. Keep smiling

Do You Like Yourself? Your Thoughts are Welcome!

White_Rose — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 03:41:20 GMT

Dear Murrigirl

Thank you so much for your post. It is very hard to recognise you love yourself, particularly when you are in the pits and depression is tearing your soul. I'm just like everyone else here. I don't like myself and at times cannot look in the mirror, but there has to be a spark of love otherwise I would not carry on with my life.

Giving yourself reasons to like yourself or admitting you can do some things fantastically is a great way to start. And it lets you look at other people with the same eyes. What can they do which is wonderful.

I still firmly believe we cannot love others unless we love ourselves. It seems to me that the definition of love is the problem. If I want to help someone in some way it's because I care for that person. Love isn't just the feeling you have for your family. It's the love you have for everyone and that includes yourself. We need to be reminded of our love and not see it as having tickets on ourselves.

Mary

Do You Like Yourself? Your Thoughts are Welcome!

blondguy — Fri, 29 Jul 2016 02:49:14 GMT

Hi Starwolf, thanks for your reply. Wisdom at its finest...I loved this....."Not loving oneself has a great advantage : it leaves room for improvement" I am like yourself...I stopped hating myself as well...keeps it simple...Paulx

Do You Like Yourself? Your Thoughts are Welcome!

blondguy — Fri, 29 Jul 2016 02:58:36 GMT

Hello Murrigirl, thanks for your reply 🙂 You are an inspiration. I love the way you have dealt with self care. I love what you said "but I have stopped lying in that bed thinking I am worthless and unlovable, because OMG do I ever cook great eggs" Your reply speaks volumes where experience is concerned. Great to read your post! Paulx