topic God as part of my life (but in no way do I expect everyone to agree. in Staying well

God as part of my life (but in no way do I expect everyone to agree.

HelenM — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 17:01:25 GMT

Life's quite tough at the moment. When I go to bed I feel the best because the day can't ask any more from me. I write a prayer to God and read a little book that helps. God is dwith me always but unfortunately I don't feel it often during the day. But if I read of religious people from the past some had a good relationship God but it didn't make everything honkey dorey. In fact I think that they were often writing years later and distance enhances the view. When I look at some of my depressions from the past they don't seem so bad. I

t seems Mother Teresa found God to be absent throughout most of her life. I'm going out soon and can't finish what I'm saying. Plus I'm getting quite confused. Helen x

God as part of my life (but in no way do I expect everyone to agree.

BKYTH — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 00:00:57 GMT

I think that often people expect their belief in God in itself to improve their lives. The spiritual life to me, whether or not it entails a belief in God, is something that one has to nourish. And that can only happen by developing wisdom. God must be more than just an idea, something that we just turn to for comfort. A relationship with God has to be nurtured and each of us has a responsibility in that process. I don't ask of life to be comforted. My spiritual world is devoid of a belief in God and so I approach the difficulties of life in a different way. I find acceptance of suffering a useful tool in the process and an awareness of its universal nature a sobering reminder that it is not personal. It does not belong to me. Suffering will occur and it how we respond to that suffering which can make all the difference. Wisdom is the essence of the spiritual life and its heartbeat and I strive for the capacity to first accept whatever I am confronted with and then to see it as a challenge rather than a problem. Perhaps in that courage one reaches God. We must find God in our struggle rather than hope to be relieved of that struggle by God. Philip.

God as part of my life (but in no way do I expect everyone to agree.

Lori — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 12:35:10 GMT

Hi HelenM,

Sorry to hear that your going through a tough time at the moment.. To be honest i find it pretty cool that you write a prayer each night, i find it interesting and inspirational. You are right though at bed time the day really cant ask for much more.. If you feel that God is not with you throughout the day have you thought of maybe writing a prayer in the morning to see if that helps ? If God can't make your day "honkey dorey" then it is up to you, i have all faith in you.. You are just as capable.

Goodluck and keep in touch!

- Lori 🙂

God as part of my life (but in no way do I expect everyone to agree.

HelenM — Tue, 08 Dec 2015 15:43:48 GMT

Hi BKYTH

In some ways our thoughts are similar. I don't believe suffering is sent to us. It is not a personal thing and actually I regularly think of the vast community of people who are suffering. Ours is a shared experience.

Tbh I know God can't take away our problems but I'd like to feel his presence. Along with wisdom, I think honesty and love are important for us.

I really admire you for your acceptance of suffering and I know my pain would be eased if I could accept mine. My ability to accept has improved for my low levels of depression. At one time I had to be depression free and able to get on with my life before I'd feel satisfied. Now I can recognise that good days are just that, good days. However, bad spells are made significantly worse by my fear that they will never go. I'd like to hear how you manage Philip. You say you treat it as a challenge. I know I sound a bit dumb but could you explain it a bit.

Thanks, Helen

God as part of my life (but in no way do I expect everyone to agree.

BKYTH — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 00:00:46 GMT

I will have to address your 'not dumb' question in an odd way. I've been involved in the psychiatric system for over 40yrs. A few years ago when there was nothing left to be prescribed and ECT had produced no benefit. A psychologist mentioned the term Aspergers during a discussion we were having. I didn't know it at the time but this to be the most important word that I would hear in my life. The diagnosis's had piled up around me, as they can be prone to do, and they just changed like the seasons and it had always been apparent to me that the discussions I had with the bewildering array of faces which one encounters over such a long period of time were futile. Thus began my writing career as I struggled to find a voice that the person in the other chair might recognize but that too failed miserably. No one was at fault. When you find yourself in a psychiatric hospital young in life and your difficulties result in more and more admissions inevitably the labeling begins and you are then perceived through the lens of that system. Anyway the result was that about a year ago I was diagnosed with Aspergers and in my research on the subject leading up to that diagnosis I discovered a world that resonated with my lived experience for the first time. 40 yrs in the psychiatric system achieved nothing and it never could so I was obliged during those years to develop strategies to deal with whatever I was presented with on my own. I remember when I first read the 'serenity prayer' at my first AA meeting I saw what I perceived to be a profound truth about life in it - That is, to come to understand the difference between what you can change and what you can't. Equally I recognized the truth that you so well expressed in the first to lines of your post. The importance I place on wisdom is that it allows one the ability to not reject suffering but to work with. It is in suffering that we discover who we really are as our 'easy answers' and 'good time philosophies' dissolve away. To see a situation as a challenge is to take responsibility for it. I am running out of words so will have to finish. Philip.

God as part of my life (but in no way do I expect everyone to agree.

Danny_Dolphin — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 01:13:34 GMT

Good morning Helen M

Yes it is quite a difficult and confusing question when you consider your religious beliefs in comparison to a pragmatic world where others live lives that seem to work very well without being involved with a religious practice. I have to admit my own religious beliefs have come under attack in recent years as it seems that religion causes more problems than it addresses but of course that is the people not the religion and there are many more good people than bad ones. However its the spiritual beliefs that Philip mentions I think is the key. That is what it is difficult for me to integrate while still holding on to them and I think its a part of our make-up.

Psychologists use the term existentialism that is a reason for being, we can sometimes suffer if we do not have a reason to live our lives and religion is that for many people.

When I am feeling as though the world is too much though I will say a short prayer before I go to sleep so you are doing the best thing in communication with your God and you believe in that as its the time you most feel at peace. My question to this difficult question would be do you have a local church and congregation to turn to for support and would you consider finding out more about how psychology works so you can better understand your feelings? There are many books on the subject although I would avoid ones with religious or lifestyle overtones. Another direction may be to give time to volunteer organisations as you have a need to fulfill a worthwhile ambition from your comments and this may help those you help and also your own lovely personalty. Of course you may already be involved in your local community and also with your church in which case it may be time to also look at other activities to give you the peace of mind you seek.

God as part of my life (but in no way do I expect everyone to agree.

HelenM — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 10:07:19 GMT

Thank you Philip for your really interesting answer. You've really been on a journey and are continuing it with the wisdom that, tbh, I envy. Having said that, 40 years in the Psychiatric system is a tough apprenticeship! Desmond Tutu said 'if you have to suffer, suffer well'. It seems these words were written for you. If I come across as sycophantic it is actually because your qualities are the ones that are crucial in horrendous situations. I'm thinking of hostage situations etc There's a book by Victor Frankl, 'Mans search for meaning' . He was a psychiatrist who spent time in a concentration camp. This book is about mans ability or inability to cope. I

write poetry. I write it for myself. It's relatively good. For me it must meet a certain standard and then if I feel good about it I'm happy. I wrote a poem some months ago and the last two lines partly explain how I feel about life let your soul live at least to seek purity in an indifferent world.

Your post has given me food for thought. Thank you. Helen

God as part of my life (but in no way do I expect everyone to agree.

HelenM — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 10:20:19 GMT

Hi Danny Yes II am active in our church, though it's only for my relationship with God. People there are fine but it's the spiritual side that is important to me. Actually I do volunteering in a charity shop and love it. I can no longer do paid work. I get a lot of pleasure from helping people but have to limit myself otherwise I become exhausted.

I'm pleased that you find prayer helpful. Some people think it's wrong if you only turn to God when you need him. I think God's happy to listen anytime. Take care, Helen

God as part of my life (but in no way do I expect everyone to agree.

BKYTH — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 12:31:57 GMT

Yes I know of the book you mention. The books title is sexist. Perhaps the title should have been "Woman's search for meaning" But that aside the quote you refer to by Desmond Tutu points towards and understanding as is not the understanding itself. What does he mean by that? What is it that we need to be be that will make it possible for us to "suffer well?" The statement is more of a question than a truth - It is not enough to just admire it we are obliged to tease out its relevance and to discover that upon which it is based otherwise the statement " If you have to suffer, suffer badly" is an equally valid assertion. I would like to read the rest of your poem as there is much richness in the last two lines that you excerpts from. Philip.

God as part of my life (but in no way do I expect everyone to agree.

HelenM — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 09:04:41 GMT

Hi Philip Suffering well. I took that to mean that you shouldn't let your suffering make you angry or self pitying. Desmond Tutu cited Nelson Mandela as transforming his suffering. My poem is only five lines. But here it is

Things Eternal

Don't let your depression define you.

Do not let it find you sitting at the window

like a widow grateful for the company.

Let your soul live at least

to seek purity in an indifferent world. Helen

God as part of my life (but in no way do I expect everyone to agree.

BKYTH — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 19:57:49 GMT

I agree with your assessment of that quote. Since suffering is an inevitable part of life it seems futile to resist it. When difficulties arise it is more useful to say "why not me?" as "why me?" If complaint or self pity had any practical value to them they would be of use at such times but for me that doesn't seem to be the case. As someone who has no interest in the existence or non existence of God I see life itself as a process devoid of any inherent fairness or justice and being just as indifferent to the question of whether or not there is life after death I cannot look there to expect some final rationale of lifes vicissitudes to be revealed to me as some part of a supreme beings elegant plan. I wonder if what you are alluding to in the first three lines of your poem is the way in which all of us, if we allow ourselves, can find companionship in our sense of despair and suffering rather than to incorporate such experiences into our lives in such a way that we can transcend them and move forward. "Let your soul live at least to seek purity in an indifferent world" seems to me to be a commandment for us to be more than what we can ever be if we allow ourselves to be defined by the jargon of any definition. It is not our suffering that defines us but rather our capacity to find the "purity" that is all around us even if we have long ago lost the capacity to see or recognize it. Philip.

God as part of my life (but in no way do I expect everyone to agree.

Sparkles183 — Sun, 10 Jan 2016 21:53:42 GMT

Hi Helen,

i hope u r still around on these forums

i am just reading over your thread after having a break from these forums for the last couple of months.

I think being a Christian or religious and having a mental illness is one of the hardest things and the next hardest thing is accepting u have a mental illness. I think that is because the lack of aceptence within the church as well, a lot of people within the church sees it as emotions not as a illness.

I was first diagnosed with depression in 2012 . ( although I had it for many years before that) at that time I had a volunteer position as assotiate pastor within a church. And I just literally ran away from my diagnosis I left my job and my my church and traveled thinking God was going to do some miricle.

It is not until just recently that I am starting to accept my illness and what I have to do to get better. I just finished reading an article before I checked these forums on famous Christians with depression and it talks about a famous lady who is a host of a Christian tv show and she has now came to a place where she wakes up in the morning grabs a glass of water takes her tablet and says a prayer of thanksgiving thanking to God for the doctors.

I am not at that place yet but I will sure like to be.

as for for feeling the presence of God and feeling God is with me sometimes I find that difficult myself although having been through both of the feeling the prescence of God day in and day out. And times like now where I hardly feel him I know it is times like now that I grow the most in my faith. It is a biblical exp to have times in the desert ( when u r not feeling God) but we all get through it no mater how difficult it may be...

i hope things r getting better for u take care

sparkles