topic Re: Overcoming the need for self harm / punishment in Suicidal thoughts and self-harm

Overcoming the need for self harm / punishment

Supermum — Sat, 29 Oct 2022 04:11:04 GMT

Hello all,

I am just wondering if anyone has advice re the overwhelming need for self punishment driven by guilt and past abuse/ trauma in the form

Of excess medication, inflicting pain on oneself, sexual punishment and risk taking ? I do see a psychologist weekly and have input from a psychiatrist who have given me tools to try and help but I haven’t elaborated on the whole extent of my thoughts.
It makes me feel absolutely disgusting at times and I am truly ashamed.
I try to visualize it just as a thought and not to give it the time and to let it pass but it’s just not that easy at all.

I hope it doesn’t offend or upset anyone

Hi Supermum Thank you for sharing so bravely with us her...

Sophie_M — Sat, 29 Oct 2022 04:44:57 GMT

Hi Supermum

Thank you for sharing so bravely with us here on the forum today. We're so sorry to hear you've been experiencing a lot of guilt and shame around the coping mechanisms you've built up to deal with your past abuse/trauma. We know how hard it can be to post as openly as this, but we also hear how much you want to connect with others to get advice and we hope that you will find some responses in this beautiful, supportive and non-judgemental online community that will be truly helpful for you.

We want you to know that this is also definetly something you can talk with our BB counsellors about and If you feel you could reach out to our counsellors to talk this through, we’re available on 1300 22 4636, or you can reach us online here. There’s also our friends over at the Suicide Call Back service on 1300 659 467, or Lifeline on 13 11 14. We're all available 24/7 if you ever need someone to talk to.

We also wonder if you’d like to share some of the things that you have tried that have helped you in the past? Maybe it’s calling a friend or a helpline, exercising, or using an app for mindfulness or distraction?

We look forward to hearing what our other community members have to say, and we hope to hear back from you soon.

Kind regards,

Sophie M

Re: Overcoming the need for self harm / punishment

therising — Sat, 29 Oct 2022 20:15:06 GMT

Hi Supermum

I feel for you so much as you face this incredible challenge and deep longing to make a difference. I'm hoping the following angle makes a difference to you.

One of the ways that makes a difference for me involves me becoming more conscious of my inner dialogue. 'Where's it coming from?' becomes the #1 question. Only when I can pick where it's coming from can I begin to manage it. Not sure if you can relate but I'm amazed by the amount of people I've met over the years who experience the 'You' factor with their internal dialogue. For example, you could ask yourself the question 'What's wrong with me?' and hear in response 'You are are hopeless. You're pathetic' etc. What is saying 'You' and 'You're'? Someone suggested we have a number of different facets to who we are. When we throw out a question to our self, one of those facets will respond. Again, the question 'What's wrong with me?'. If the inner critic responds, it may respond with 'You're pathetic', yet if the inner sage responds it may respond with 'You need to develop greater self understanding'.

Took me years to figure out why I was so brutal on myself. I finally realised the self loving compassionate part of me had not yet come to life. So how could I possibly hope to channel a part of me I hadn't developed. I've brought it more to life in the last few years typically through the phrase 'Under the circumstances...'. While I punished myself for years for making some shocking destructive choices, I stopped beating myself up through 'Under the circumstances, of relying on alcohol to manage depression, I made poor non conscious choices while under the influence'. I show compassion toward my younger self who faced depression and alcoholism. Under the circumstances of never being led to understand how self love is felt and developed, I was cruel toward myself and highly self destructive. The loving compassionate part of me dictates this was not my fault, not knowing how to love myself. Not a lot of us are taught. Typically, it's only when a lack of self love becomes intolerable that we go looking for ways to begin developing it.

'Under the circumstances...' can trigger a deeply compassionate part of us that needs us to become more conscious of our circumstances before it can show us great love and compassion.

Re: Overcoming the need for self harm / punishment

Eagle Ray — Sun, 30 Oct 2022 01:16:22 GMT

Dear L,

I just wanted to send you support and for you to know you are not alone in facing these challenges. I feel that what The Rising says is spot on about when the absence of self-love becomes intolerable, that’s when we start to seek ways of finding it. But it’s often a very vulnerable time and it can bring the shame and abandonment from the past up for us. But these feelings are not our fault, so it’s developing that compassionate self that the Rising describes that can become our new inner self-carer.

I’m going through this stuff right now and have had self-destructive thoughts come up, and it can be very hard when in the midst of that to not get lost in it. But I keep trying to come back to being a loving carer of myself. When I reached a point of overwhelm recently I called Lifeline and got a lovely, gentle man and somehow his kindness activated my inner-self care potential and it changed the state I was in. I’d called another helpline minutes earlier and got someone who was stressing me out with intense questions I couldn’t answer, so ended that call and re-composed myself enough to call Lifeline and got someone calm and caring. That was a bit of my inner self-carer that was still functioning that was able to act on my behalf and not give up. So I’ve found reaching out for connection, like you have done by posting here, can be a way of activating and expanding that self-care dynamic. The fact you have reached out shows you have that caring part developing in you already. As that part gets stronger, the self-destructive parts start to lessen.

It can be a process of flux, moving between states of self-love and self-destructive thoughts, but as long as you can keep the self-love part online, even if it’s in the background, you have this to draw on and that can help you feel safe. I got to pat a dog I met yesterday and even something as simple as that activated a feeling of self-care within myself.

I find it incredibly healing to spend time in nature where I feel held and safe. Is there something you have that helps you feel supported and connected? A way of resourcing yourself when challenging thoughts and feelings arise?

Re: Overcoming the need for self harm / punishment

Supermum — Tue, 01 Nov 2022 01:13:53 GMT

Thank you for your reply ,

A lot of what you were discussing tang very true for me . The inner critic seems to be constantly commentating on every thought every decision and it’s brutal . So I like you resort to alcohol and bad decisions risk taking .

I am interested to hear your theory on the under the circumstances mantra .

Re: Overcoming the need for self harm / punishment

Supermum — Tue, 01 Nov 2022 01:49:57 GMT

Hello ,

It’s reassuring and validating to hear I am not alone as sometimes I feel like I just need to do something to stop the emotions. I struggle with the person I have become and I have no time for her. just don’t like the person I have become one little bit.The only release sometimes is pain physical pain ( that I can handle )to drown out the pain I can’t handle . I often find that that pain to feel something else and the punish the person I do not like. Im ashamed of this .. very ashamed as it comes in the form of self harm . .No one knows and no-one sees/ feels it but me. This makes me feel inhuman and that I will never be normal again .
I too love nature and walking my dogs and this is part of my self care as well as seeing friends for catch ups and dancing .
This partially fills my cup but the bloody critic and self loathing seems all to quick to knock over that cup .
Lx

Re: Overcoming the need for self harm / punishment

Eagle Ray — Tue, 01 Nov 2022 05:33:36 GMT

Dear L,

I understand what you are saying. Sometimes it is wanting to feel a different pain from the emotional pain you are in. As you say, a pain you can handle. I was in that space a couple of weeks ago. It is so hard sometimes.

I try to get to a place of self-love and nurturance. I’m thinking of posting some reminders of this for myself at home, to catch myself out before I go into self-criticism. I actually bought a stuffed toy for myself the other day, representing my inner child. I gave her a name and picked her up a few times to hold her when I’ve felt myself collapsing again, to activate a self-care response instead of a self-attack one.

I’m glad you have dogs. They are so good for us. I don’t have one right now but I’m thinking about it.

If you start to feel any self-harm impulses you can always call a helpline or post here, even if it’s just for a chat to distract you. Sometimes that just allows you to co-regulate with another person and helps to feel safe again. When I spoke to a gentle, kind man on Lifeline recently he was asking me about my hometown and the nature places around me, and it was just a very normal chat about normal things. I find just having such a simple and kind conversation can really help so much.

Another thing that a psych once taught me was just bringing myself back to the present by looking around the room to see where my attention falls. Then she got me to say what I noticed and I got to describe the colours and shapes of things that I liked, such as a pot plant and the forms of the leaves. It’s a form of grounding that brings you into the sensory present moment.

You are showing great self-care and courage by posting here. Sending you loving and kind thoughts 🙏

Re: Overcoming the need for self harm / punishment

therising — Wed, 02 Nov 2022 20:19:24 GMT

Hi Supermum

'Under the circumstances...' can definitely be a challenging one to work with, with the challenge involving having to work out what the circumstances actually are. I've found it's far from easy when it comes to identifying them at times. Even more challenging is when there is a set of circumstances. I've found with a set, I can eliminate 1 or 2 issues but still remain depressed for a period based on the other factors I haven't addressed or am not yet conscious of. Self understanding can definitely be taxing work at times. Can get pretty exhausting.

A set could look like

When the analyst in us is analysing all the things that are depressing in life, so we can become more conscious of them
We're lacking restorative sleep (the kind that restores energy levels while impacting our inner chemistry). We might think we're sleeping all the way through the night but be wrong. Such is often the case with sleep apnea, for example
When people are simply hoping we 'get better'. They may care enough to check in on how we're going but not be actively loving us back to life, pushing and raising us to do the things that are going to make some difference
We may be lacking a serious guide, while feeling so overwhelmingly lost to the point where it's deeply depressing

So, the depressing set of circumstances: Our inner analyst working overtime, a depressing lack of energy, no one actively raising us back to life in ways we can relate to and being stuck in a depressing standstill at crossroads. I suppose you could say, it's the perfect recipe for depression, a combination of ingredients. The recipe for success has to then also have a number of ingredients, the ideal mix.

Being kind to our self might sound a little like 'Based on the number of depressing factors in my life, I'm actually performing like a champion while in a state of dysfunction'. Sometimes we can wake up to how amazing we actually are under the circumstances 🙂

Re: Overcoming the need for self harm / punishment

Supermum — Thu, 03 Nov 2022 11:36:23 GMT

Ok so my psychologist today said that my diagnosis is BPD . That I hit the markers of 5 of the tick boxes. I don’t want to tick the boxes …

Re: Overcoming the need for self harm / punishment

Eagle Ray — Fri, 04 Nov 2022 05:27:54 GMT

Dear L,

I have some familiarity with BPD having had friends with it and my Mum showed possible signs of it in that she fitted some of the symptoms but not others, but was never diagnosed. I’m not diagnosed with it, but during particularly stressful periods I’ve seen elements of shame and fear of abandonment emerge. They haven’t led to frantic attempts to avoid abandonment but I’ve felt that urge within in me. I’ll then feel shame that I’m feeling that way. When I’m most affected that can lead me to feel self-destructive. These feelings directly relate to actual experiences of abandonment in childhood and shame induced by others in childhood.

I just mention these things because we are complex beings and even if you get a diagnosis it is not a fixed thing that defines you. It is psychological medicine’s attempt to define and understand what is going on, but you are much more than that and a precious and unique human being who can grow and work through those challenging things you experience.

BPD can also look somewhat like complex PTSD. If you don’t feel the diagnosis of BPD quite fits you, you can explore that further with your existing psychologist. You can also seek a second opinion. But even if it does seem to fit, it’s ok. I try to think of all the diagnoses that end in ‘D’ for disorder, not so much as fixed end points or ‘disorders’ but something that can shift and change.

Some people are now preferring to describe post traumatic stress disorder as simply post traumatic stress, and there is increasing talk of post traumatic growth. So you are an organic being who can heal. I know that’s not an easy journey, and I’ve just crawled myself out of a dark night of the soul I’ve been in over the past week. It’s an ongoing process, but the fact you are reaching out and communicating here shows you have good self-awareness and you want to resolve and heal stuff within you.

How are you feeling today?

Re: Overcoming the need for self harm / punishment

Supermum — Fri, 04 Nov 2022 11:01:21 GMT

I agree I am not a diagnosis but a work in progress . I hope I can heal and not be in the mindset I am and the thought processes I default to all to easily . If you don’t mind talking about your dark space and what caused it and what enabled you to crawl out?

I want to get better , I want to think about these moments in my life without the emotional distress it causes … one day .. .

How am I feeling today ? I’m annoyed . I don’t like the tag they have given me although I can’t deny some of the similarities. I also handed over my stockpile of drugs to my psychologist. To reduce the risk of harm I guess .. a positive move on my part .

I just wish I wasn’t so alone in all this . Those around me don’t understand … I wish the people on this forum were here with me . To share time with .

Re: Overcoming the need for self harm / punishment

Eagle Ray — Fri, 04 Nov 2022 13:59:05 GMT

A few different things have caused dark spaces for me. The most recent was processing early childhood experiences of being alone with parents who had their own trauma. I had exposure to some verbal and physical abuse and quite a bit of uncontrolled rage, but also my parents just being psychically absent from me. With my Mum this absence started at birth. I found I was able to understand the survival personality I developed in order to survive which was based on perseverance for me. I’ve always been trying really hard at everything. I became a carer for my Mum when I was very small. It was like I thought this was my role and she encouraged it, viewing me as her parent when I was just a kid. From babyhood I had no one to orient to, which babies naturally do looking for a parent. It’s like the isolation of that really hit me this week and it made me realise how outside the human world I felt growing up. It’s why I’ve so closely connected with nature which has been like a parent to me.

So I kind of went into an isolated state this past week as I felt the isolation from my childhood. A few things brought me out of it. One was recalling situations where I’ve stood up for myself, including more recently. This got me in touch with healthy anger and assertiveness, and somehow this helped me energetically heal some of the powerlessness I felt as a child and got me out of the shame that I felt. I was shamed a lot as a child. I’ve done things such as throwing a cushion into the couch and yelling in the car (where it’s safe to do so without freaking out others).

Also I’ve gone to a favourite place by the ocean that helps me to feel safe. Sometimes it’s the only place I can calm down. I feel held there by the rocks, plants etc on the hill I go to, as weird as that may sound. I also listened to some favourite songs that expressed the kind of pain I’ve been in that connected to my personal experience. I’ve called helplines to co-regulate with another human being and feel safe.

I’ve experienced some abuse as an adult as well. I recently processed a couple of instances of sexual and physical assault with the psychologist that I had not previously discussed with anyone. She helped me move through these memories and somatically process them. I’d compartmentalised these things off from the rest of my life and experience up until the last few weeks.

Re: Overcoming the need for self harm / punishment

Eagle Ray — Sat, 05 Nov 2022 09:44:45 GMT

Hi again L

I just thought I’d mention what I’ve been learning about today in case it helps in relation to crawling out of a dark place. I’m still learning this process myself, so the most qualified person to help is your psychologist. But just sharing what I’m learning.

Today I‘ve been learning about structural dissociation which can occur in PTSD, Complex PTSD and BPD. It’s when parts of ourselves made adaptations to stressful or traumatic situations in the past, often in childhood but sometimes later. These adaptations made sense at the time because it’s how we protected ourselves but actually are not helpful in the present. So to take just one example - the inner critic - we might have developed this because of things said or done to us, but also felt if we are hard on ourselves we might meet the standards we think others have of us and they might be then less likely to harm us. So we do this behaviour to cope, but later in life it’s actually harmful. If we feel shame we might collapse into this and become self-punishing. This is often unconscious (structurally dissociated) so we find ourselves doing it before we are conscious of it. But by bringing it back into consciousness and integrating it with our core, wiser, adult self, we can take the power out of the unconscious impulse.

We have a wise, stable part which shows up as us seeking help through therapy, recognising we are struggling and working to do something about it. It’s like we can re-integrate parts of ourselves that became fragmented, have compassion for our younger self and move towards becoming whole. This is what I’m working on anyway. Each person will have their own parts for their own reasons that might need integrating, so it will be different for you, me and the next person. So it’s often identifying the emotion and need under an impulse that fits your situation and that understanding can help extinguish the impulse. Just wanted to share that in case it helps.

Re: Overcoming the need for self harm / punishment

Supermum — Wed, 16 Nov 2022 11:45:59 GMT

sorry for the delayed response . Im

just in a very crappy headspace and anything and everything feels just too much … too overwhelming .y psychologist has said I have a working diagnosis of BPD . This has made me hyper fixate on everything negative and I just feel so bloody overwhelmed . I feel low and not in a good headspace . I just want to switch off crawl away and never come out again. I just don’t know how to move forward . Help …

Re: Overcoming the need for self harm / punishment

therising — Wed, 16 Nov 2022 20:06:09 GMT

Hi Supermum

A state of overwhelm is brutal. Not sure whether you can relate but I find when I'm in such a state, I'm not always entirely conscious of it. What I mean is when I'm in that state I tend to think 'I can't handle this. What's wrong with me? Everything just feels too much'. In hindsight, when I come out of it, I realise I was in a state of overwhelm where If it's anxiety or what I like to call 'unwelcome super hyper activity' my brain and mind are almost completely overwhelmed and my nervous system and vascular system on occasion, amongst other parts of me. It can be a seriously exhausting state to be in. If it's overwhelming levels of depression it can still be about hyper activity. The inner dialogue becomes brutal to work with, the frequency and volume.

Sometimes picking which parts of our self are overwhelming us can be tricky. When the analyst in me comes to life and manages to work full time, I'm overwhelmed by analysis (trying to analyse the hell out of everything). If the feeler in me has taken up that full time position, I'm overwhelmed by feeling absolutely everything. When the 2 are working together, I'm overwhelmed by how I feel about what I'm analysing. If the critic in me is there full time, I'm overwhelmed by calculating everything that's 'wrong' with me. If my intolerant sense of self is present full time, the part of me that refuses to tolerate any form of neglect or injustice from anyone, I'm typically overwhelmed with anger.

I've finally realised overwhelm is the point I reach just before a constructive 'breakdown'. It's a period of time in the lead up to me being forced to break everything down, so that I can make sense of what's led me to such unbearable states. Overwhelm has always led me to recognise each individual piece of the puzzle I face. Identifying each one allows me to put it together, gaining the overall picture. Same end result every time, me thinking in amazement 'My god, no wonder I was so overwhelmed!'.

While it can seem like we're working with a 10 piece puzzle that should be easy to solve, in reality we can be trying to make sense of 100 different issues (a 100 piece puzzle). Don't underestimate the number of factors that have led you to this point. There will be more than you realise.

Re: Overcoming the need for self harm / punishment

Eagle Ray — Thu, 17 Nov 2022 11:27:48 GMT

Hi Supermum

I just thought I’d echo The Rising in saying that I’ve also often found a period of turbulence happens before some new growth or clarity. It can feel like there’s no way out sometimes, but just be as gentle with yourself as you can. It can be like the storm before the calm.

As for the working BPD diagnosis, I’ve been listening to some interviews with psychologist Janina Fisher and she has some really constructive approaches to complex trauma and BPD in particular. She’d prefer it’s name was changed as she doesn’t view it as a personality disorder but as a trauma-related attachment disorder. She helps clients to identify and heal parts of themselves traumatised in childhood and has had some good success with it. I just thought I’d mention her as her approach is positive and encouraging.

I get the crawling away and never wanting to come out again. Many times I’ve felt like crawling under a rock. If it makes you feel any better, I hid under my hoodie and covered my face with my hands when my psychologist was trying to hold space for me today. She is the nicest, safest person so it’s nothing to do with her. It’s my feelings of non-safety that stem from my childhood. She let me stay there until I was ready to come out. It’s ok to feel vulnerable and you can even let yourself rest in that place for a while, imagining it like a safe burrow (or whatever works for you) where you can feel protected and comforted. Then you can come out a bit stronger and rested.

Take care xx