topic Chronic ideation in Suicidal thoughts and self-harm

Chronic ideation

M2 — Sat, 26 Dec 2020 05:15:31 GMT

Hi,

Hopefully I'm within guidelines, let me know if not!

So I've always struggled with anxiety, depression and suicidal ideation. The three things are almost like domino's, anxiety leading to depression to ideation, quite quickly.

I finally had enough mid year and went to the GP and was put on SSRI. it helped a lot for months. Sadly, the crazy season tipped me over the edge and I feel hard.

Interestingly, the warning sign for me is the prevalence of suicidal ideation that occurs. Those thoughts are always there (even when I'm relatively happy) but the thoughts are coming thick and fast now. I won't go into detail, but it is always the same mechanism of death, over and over and over.

Last night I almost fell into old habits and called someone to stay using again (it has been a decade). The motivation for this was extremely scary, and holding back was hard. I woke up this morning again in a bad state (though better than yesterday).

Does anyone have any advice on pushing through this? I don't want to feel like this anymore.

Thanks

Chronic ideation

Truc — Sat, 26 Dec 2020 06:50:48 GMT

Hi M2

Before I got slightly addicted to some drugs and also had depression before, so I hope my story could help you a little bit. Before, I did not have many friends when I moved into a new environment, it is hard for me to make friends because I am an introvert, therefore I drank beer, drinking helped me to have more courage to go to talk with others as comfortably as I want, however, of course drinking too much would not be good for sure, I got hangover and my work life, relationship...etc had been going down hill, so I decided to stop because I know drinking is a solution for a superficial cause, the root behind is I am an introvert, so if I want to make friends I should go find someone who may have similar characters to me and also learn from others even they are introverts or extroverts, people are nice to teach us and tell us what they know, so by that way I can make friends easier, and friends are not everything, I find to have a hobby, I would say a healthy hobby, what do I mean by that ? A healthy hobby could bring you joy, happiness, meaning, value... Such as photography which would break our ruminating thoughts especially negative thoughts. And by this way, I am able to avoid the drinking addiction as well. I think if we rely on something too much, we tend to get addicted, and without it, the symptoms may get worse I ssuppose. Im not sure about others, but I think we all have an addiction, thinking negative is also a mental addiction in my perspective, so why dont we choose another healthy addiction anyways? . i hope it is helpful.

Chronic ideation

M2 — Sat, 26 Dec 2020 07:05:58 GMT

I really appreciate you taking the time to reply. In some ways that in itself is helpful.

Some context (stop me if this gets boring): I run a lot r (to get tired, mainly to avoid anxiety), I have many friends, a family, kids, wife, an excellent job (although it does with a lot of responsibility and therefore stress), I write, read, socialise, I live a busy life, there is just something "broken" in me.

The drugs thing... many years ago I got caught up with a specific drug. It is a long story and something I have overcome. Iast night wasn't a need to get high.

My wife is very supportive, I just wish I could push through and get to the other side happy and carefree.

Chronic ideation

Croix — Sat, 26 Dec 2020 09:56:58 GMT

Dear M2~

Nice to talk with you again, even if under these circumstances. Seeing you making use of us as a resource when in need is good for us as well as (hopefully) you. I am impressed you resisted the temptation to use drugs to try to cope -that was brave and showed strenght -as does your being clean for 10 years. Very impressed.

I'm also gladdened you have someone there to support you and that you talk with her. Again brave to open up, and sensible.

I too had a specific method to kill myself in mind, at times it was almost like it was drawing me closer, and like you have bursts of depression plus anxiety

I found there was no way I could get out of it myself, unlike you I did not confide in my partner for a very long tme and was not been treated for the things I needed as I was very reticent with my succession of GPs too.

Eventually it did all come to a head and I ended up with an excellent GP who could see my condition was beyond his ability to treat effectively so worked in conjunction with a psychiatrist. Things improved, my thoughts of suicide receded and became less powerful and over tme I was able to have happiness in my life.

It's pretty obvious that your current treatment is no longer effective and you are entering the same dangerous and unhappy life you had before.

May I suggest you have an extended consultation wiht oyur GP, lay out hte facts including those thoughts of taking your life (hard to do that, I know) . Then discuss options, with perhaps the preferred one you are referred to a psychologist or psychiatrist who tends to specialize in suicidal ideation, review you medication between them and see what happens.

Just at the start that may only be hope, but even that is an improvement. Constant feedback is essential, if local professionals can only see you one every couple of months then if it was me I'd investigate tele-health.

There is another side to get to, I'm there and although not quite symptom free(they are pretty much controlled) have a good life wiht ability, satisfaction, able to receive and give support and love.

I hpe to talk with you some more.

Croix

Chronic ideation

M2 — Sun, 27 Dec 2020 03:06:13 GMT

Thanks for the kind response and advice, Croix. It means a lot!!!

Chronic ideation

Croix — Sun, 27 Dec 2020 11:55:22 GMT

Dear M2~

Relying upon hte frequency of thoghts about taking you life does not strike me as a particularly good way of self-assessment - it's driving way too close to the edge. you used to see movies with rope bridges across ravines (pretty sure Harrison Ford Was in a couple, then you's see hte rope start to fray. Could be most unlucky.

Actually it is a problem I've had to face, as have many others. I use a safety plan called a "Wellness Recovery Action Plan" or W.R.A.P.

https://mentalhealthrecovery.com/
(pay-for though cheap or find one free on the web like I did)

It has sections in it for how you feel and behave from normal life to crisis, and also has what other people say at each stage, so it is not entirely subjective. If I start to go down I have a set of dos/don't do's for each section, up to crisis level where I switch over to the free smartphone app BeyondNow

https://www.beyondblue.org.au/get-support/beyondnow-suicide-safety-planning

It does not take you as close to the edge as you can take action early.

As you can see lots of problems are common to many of us

Croix

Chronic ideation

M2 — Sun, 27 Dec 2020 22:41:38 GMT

Thanks, I'll take a look.

The rope bridge analogy is apt.

Probably more something for the depression forum, but the most bizarre thing for me is that I cannot point to the source of my unhappiness. I plan to call my GPs centre today (she is on leave but any gp will do right now)

Chronic ideation

Croix — Mon, 28 Dec 2020 13:23:47 GMT

Dear M2~

I wish it was as simple as identifying a source and going from there. I have a feeling a lot of the time this is not possible (or only partly so) and other approaches have to be taken. That is not to say there is no hope, just several different ways of accomplishing the same thing.

Mine was easy to establish at it involved duties and events in the police, for others it is more obscure.

With the rope bridge, Harrison always gets safely across just as it breaks, I'm not sure that corresponds with real life though 🙂

Croix

Chronic ideation

M2 — Mon, 28 Dec 2020 13:49:10 GMT

I think having something concrete to point at would help immensely. Instead, I describe my anxiety as one worry being replaced with another when it is resolved, like water filling in the void, another concern fills its place.

The cause of depression is even less obvious, I cannot tell you a single reason why I should be feeling this way right now, but the doesn't lessen the impact and severity of it. If anything it adds to the despair, given the lack of clarity (and long history) imply no relief in sight.

The rope bridge is untangling fast, but it isn't my first one, I'm sure I'll be fine, i just wish I could somehow be better prepared for the next one

Chronic ideation

Croix — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 13:09:17 GMT

Dear M2

I've often felt htat my brain wishes to worry, and then simply picks on something, and if I get over that it picks on something else, sort of until a daily quota of worry is met.

Hope that makes some sort of sense.

As for having something concrete to point to, maybe that might help, I do thing having a set of ore-planed actions to take when worry or depression descends. That is why I use a WRAP plan, it gives you Ind a trusted other too if you can) a replete of what to do as you ascertain the severity of the attack.

Sort of life boat drill in a cruise ship 🙂 Actually I'd not be surprised if you could not pick up a cruise ship at again basement prices ATM.

To be serious for a moment it gives you things to do that you thought up before, no brain power involved when you are in distress.

Rope bridges were always meant to be overcome, they were a classic cliff-hanger to end a Saturday Movie Serial in the 30's and 40's, drawing the audience back for the following week.

Maybe in time a skillful therapist will uncover early problems (provided you are strait with them, something that took me a long time).

Croix

Chronic ideation

M2 — Tue, 11 May 2021 14:20:12 GMT

I can't stop the ideation, it is so pervasive. I wake up and immediately think (almost as comfort) specific imagery which I won't go into. I'm starting to self harm. This at least I recognise as specifically not something intended (at least ostensibly) as an attempt at suicide, but the constant flood of suicidal thoughts is scary.

Why am I doing this? I have a good job, a fantastic relationship, kids, a future. Why the hell am I drawn to depression and thoughts of an "out"?

I'm so sorry for people on this forum having to read this, given there are more worthy and needy people. Please only reply if you have considered them first

Chronic ideation

Sophie_M — Tue, 11 May 2021 14:44:36 GMT

Hi M2,

So sorry to hear that your thoughts are consuming you to the point of flooding you with fear. It is leading you to self-harm, which must be taking a toll on you. You are worthy and in need of support and we are here to help you. We have contacted you privately to offer you support.

Sometime life doesn't make sense as we can have everything on the outside and yet on the inside, something important is missing. There’s no blame here, just a desire to reach out to you and support you.

There are other supports that you can also reach out to like Lifeline (13 11 14) or the Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467).

MensLine Australia is a free 24/7 telephone and online counselling service for men with emotional health and relationship concerns. You can contact them on 1300 78 99 78 or https://mensline.org.au/

If you would like some help finding mental health support, we would recommend that you get in contact with the Beyond Blue Support Service. They are available 24/7 by phone on 1300 22 4636 or on Webchat 1pm-12am AEST on our website: www.beyondblue.org.au/getsupport  One of our friendly counsellors will be able to talk through these feelings with you and can offer support, advice and referrals.

You are not alone here and nor do you have to be. The community is here to support you.

Chronic ideation

M2 — Tue, 11 May 2021 14:55:10 GMT

Thanks Sophie, it means a lot that you have reached out. I'm sorry to add to your load.

Chronic ideation

Croix — Wed, 12 May 2021 08:32:38 GMT

Dear M2~

Welcome back, I'm glad Sophie_M was here to greet you and give you those sensible resources.

I guess the first thing to say is you take as much time on this Forum as you want, you are important and in great need, and the way you express yourself is thoughtful and will not upset others -thank you for that. Plus you are not adding to any load, we are here to help you, you are entitled.

I guess I've said before the outside circumstances on one's life can look absolutely terrific, however it is really irrelevant to the way you feel. As in my life depression can narrow down one's mind to just a few things, dangerous, hopeless while blocking out all else.

I'm afraid to say self-harm is dangerous. I'd expect you know this already however an accident, becoming used to it leading to greater and greater harm to achieve the same effect, or a instant change of intent and then it is too late.

Beyond Blue does have some things to say about it here (my apologies if you have seen this all before)

https://www.beyondblue.org.au/the-facts/suicide-prevention/feeling-suicidal/self-harm-and-self-injury

As far as I know having a trusted someone you can go to when the urge becomes too great is a pretty good way of avoiding the act.

It tends to be a specialist area when it comes to treatment, like the suicidal thoughts and the depression, and I'm not sure if you are having any treatment at all at this time

Would you like to say if you have medical support at the moment? I could not function without it and although am now in a good life I still rely on meds and therapy, just a normal part of life now. It works well though

If you are not may I suggest it - quickly go see your GP/Psych or whomever in an extended consultation and be really frank and truthful (I found that hard and downplayed things). If you are already being treated then I guess you need to tell your medical team that the treatment/therapy is ineffective and needs a major rethink. Would that be something you could do?

Also do you have in mind anyone you can use as a safety-valve and contact when you start to feel overwhelmed? I am most lucky in having a sensible partner I can confide in, and it really helps

It's been a while since you were here before and I'm wondering if things got better for a while. If so and the rope bridges stopped fraying so fast was there any reason you can think of?

Another Q: is there anything you enjoy now or in the past?

Hope to talk again, I'm worried about you

Croix

Chronic ideation

M2 — Fri, 14 May 2021 11:09:43 GMT

Hi Croix,

Thanks for reaching out, I really appreciate the work you and others do here.

I saw a GP and was given medication (SSRI) and for a time I saw some progress.

The self harming is new, and it alarms me too. I initially thought it was a "cry for help" but the fact that I keep it hidden from the world (aside from here) says otherwise. All I can say is that it feels right to do it, against my better judgement.

I don't feel that the ideation is currently threatening to push into actions, but I have had recent days (the day I posted here recently is an example) where actions feel tantalisingly close.

my self esteem is at it's lowest, though none would guess. It feels like I'm betraying myself reaching out in this way.

I never thought I would reach my 40s and still "have" this.

Chronic ideation

Sophie_M — Fri, 14 May 2021 11:57:49 GMT

Hey M2,

It's really good to hear that you've reached out to your GP about these feelings, and that you were seeing some progress with the medication they gave you. Do you think you might feel comfortable opening up to your GP about the recent self-harming? It sounds like this must be so much to cope with on your own, and we hope that you can continue to find some comfort from your friends here on the forums.

We hope that you also always feel welcome to reach out and talk these feelings through with the kind counsellors at our Beyond Blue Support Service (1300 22 4636), friends at Lifeline (13 11 14), or the Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467). Sometimes talking these feelings through over the phone, with someone who cares and understands can be a really important next step in finding the right support that works for you. They can also help you to start the conversation with other supports, like GPs, mental health practitioners, and loved ones, if this is feeling like something a bit too overwhelming for you at the moment.

Please feel free to keep updating us whenever you feel up to it , we are all here to help you through this M2.

Chronic ideation

Guest_4643 — Fri, 14 May 2021 12:18:10 GMT

hello M2, welcome.

i'm sorry to hear all of this. are you able to do anything to distract yourself from the SH or the thoughts of doing so?

even if i can't help much, please know i care. you're loved and cared for. please stay safe.

Chronic ideation

M2 — Sat, 22 May 2021 13:13:38 GMT

Hi mb20,

My busy life means I'm distracted much of the day, but the quiet times before the day starts and after it ends seems to bring my thoughts to these inevitable subject matter. I've recently started running, and this also helps distract, but the thoughts don't end. At this stage I do not think I am close to any drastic action, and I'm thankful for that. The thoughts are scary enough.

I saw my GP and have again been referred to a psychologist. Historically this hasn't seemed to work well for me (aside from some quite strange results from EMDR), but I will try again with a new therapist, and hopefully this will help.

My doctor is also suggesting a shift in medication. Tbh I would prefer to ditch the medication completely.

thanks again to everybody here, I'm not sure how much feedback you get, but services like this help a lot.

Chronic ideation

Croix — Sat, 22 May 2021 15:16:46 GMT

Dear M2~

Yes I agree it is a frightening thing to have the possibilities of what you might do always present at the back of your mind. Looking for the cause may not straightforward and on the surface there can seem to be no reason you can point too.

I can't talk about self-harm from a personal perspective (other than what I have already discussed with you) however in my own case when it came to suicidal thoughts when I did open up to my partner then I had an extra resource, I knew if I told her what I was feeling I'd get comfort and understanding, even if no concrete answers. It made a lot of difference

Do you think you could do the same with your partner? A talk may well end up feeling better than hurting yourself. It's not as if all this will be a big surprise as you have explained your suicidal thoughts before.

I'd imagine covering up your self harm actions might not be as successful as you imagine. Even if the physical results are not visible your mood and attitude would probably be noticed by your partner and be a cause of deep worry - you might be doing her a kindness with frank talk and giving her a chance to simply be with you in hard moments.

I can understand that if your first psych was no help you may well have a lack of faith in subsequent practitioners. This can be a false trail, as you are in charge and can seek the one who gets to know you, clicks, understands and maps out a plan together with you . I have had to try more than one psych, and have been lucky in finding one who I ended up trusting and respecting.

I also believe (and this is just my opinion) that the mode of treatment, CBT, DBT, Talk Therapy etc. is not as important as the relationship.

I also tried a fair number of different medications (which was a right pain, tailing off one, ramping up the next) however I'm glad I did as my current meds, which I've been on for 5+ years, suit me down to the ground. Little side-effects and they do the job. Not perfect but good enough for me to live a life well worth living.

I'd like it if you came back to say how things went (or for any other reason you like)

Croix

Chronic ideation

M2 — Sat, 22 May 2021 15:28:06 GMT

Hi Croix,

Thanks for your thoughtful message.

My wife is aware of my lifelong anxiety and depression, and is a great comfort to me, and has supported me for years. She is aware that at times I have experienced suicidal ideation, but it caused great distress and in turn caused a great deal of anxiety in her. I wasn't able to express the difference between thoughts, plans and actions, so she put me on suicide watch. I would like to work on this without unnecessarily causing her pain. I understand (right now with a clarity I do acknowledge I won't always have) that actions would cause her much much more pain, but I feel approaching that I would indeed reach out for her support.

as far as self harm goes, she has noticed and we have discussed this. Again, it caused distress, but I'm currently hiding the extent of it, which is growing. I do understand this is really not a good thing, I'll work on this.

I have seen seven different psychologists in over 20 years. I have tried mindfulness, meditation, and particularly focused on cbt. Cbt on paper would really suit me as I tend to have a clinical, analytical view on some things, and cutting through the self bias feels like it would be great. Unfortunately in practice so far it hasn't. I will try again though, as I see this as some fault of my own, or something I'm missing and I'd like to try again. As I said, EMDR caused me to bizarrely breakdown (in a good way) and a ton of unknown emotions were unravelled and released, which I feel is the only effective practice that has "worked" for me. I yearn for more success like this.

On a personal front, thankyou for responding now and in the past, it means a lot.

I look forward to seeing the new psychologist and would welcome any other advice you might have