topic 13 Reasons Why in Suicidal thoughts and self-harm

13 Reasons Why

lizzie50 — Sun, 09 Apr 2017 06:11:18 GMT

I'm not sure if anyone has seen the Netflix series 13 reasons why. A young girl stating through tapes 13 reasons that lead to her killing herself, the people involved then reading the tapes. I just finished watching the series and it really hit hard to home for me, being able to relate to a lot that she went through and feeling like life just doesnt get better. I've had anxiety my whole life and depression severely in the past 6 months due to a nasty breakup with an emotionally abusive narcissist that still feels the need to belittle me and our relationship. I often take to heart what others say about me and care deeply of their opinions of me.

Before watching this show, i actually wrote several letters to people who have impacted my life both positively and negatively. I wrote one to my ex that was straight to the point of how he treated me and spoke to me hurt and how much words hurt. He left and broke up with me during a bad time for me when he was the only one i trusted enough to share my darkest thoughts. The letter pointed out all his lies and stories he made up about me, his fears and insecurities that led him to run away. I do blame him for the way i am now, for the emotional and mental abuse. Previously i've pointed out to him what is in the letter and how i have been feeling. It destroyed me even more how he reacted to it.

Telling me that all i do is play victim, ive ruined his life, i wouldn't take no as answer, every nasty name you could call someone, liar, cheat, dramatic, over sensitive. He claims he hasn't done anything to me at all, he simply just woke up and didnt want me anymore (lie) Telling me that ive caused my depression, he has nothing to do with me. He said me telling him my dark suicidal thoughts has pushed him over the edge and he doesnt want to deal with me because he cant see why and that im being stupid. That he wouldn't feel guilty cause I am just pretending to be upset to make him feel guilty and sad.

My point is that during the series i watched the individuals felt a great deal of guilty for what they had done to her. Why does my ex not see what his done? Why cant he accept his wrongs now rather than when its too late? What goes through a narcissist persons mind to not feel empathy or be mature enough to admit when messing up? I was baffled and heart broken to pour my heart out and get that response. The series really touched my heart and this was playing on my mind.

13 Reasons Why

geoff — Sun, 09 Apr 2017 20:04:24 GMT

hello Lizzie, I haven't seen the program but I'm sure it would be very disturbing.
Whatever you wrote to your ex he will never accept a word you had to say, because remember he was an 'emotionally abusive narcissist' and for him to agree with what you have written down would only mean that he is giving in to you, and that's not what a narcissist could ever do, he wants to wipe his hands clean in this situation.
People do feel guilty when it's too late and for this young girl to commit suicide because there is nothing they can do to bring her back, and by saying that I wonder how much help they would have actually been if she pleaded for them to stop her and then with ongoing treatment, or are they just wiping their hands clean so that they can get on with life.
To try and pour your heart out to him will not work, simply because he didn't want to help you when you were living together, and now you are separated it would mean that he feels that he has given into you, but a narcissist will never allow that to happen.
No matter what you try and do can I suggest as much as you want an apolgy from him, it isn't going to happen, so can you cut the chord and let him drift away, so that you can get the help you are looking for.
Unfortunately this series has triggered and reignited those deep feelings that have been worrying you for a long time, but if you stay in contact with him then you won't be able to get better, I know it may not be easy, but your safety and welfare is our concern. Geoff.x

13 Reasons Why

Croix — Sun, 09 Apr 2017 23:28:42 GMT

Dear Lizzie50~

Welcome and thanks for posting. As you've already found people here understand and offer their help. Geoff has given you spot-on advice about cutting free from your ex (no, I understand not an easy thing to do at all).

If one is vulnerable then watching the wrong thing can be a disaster. I have a tv mini-series I can't watch now. Before my illness (PTSD, depression, anxiety) I could watch anything, now that same set of DVDs would be a massive set of triggers - dangerous. If I'm ever 100% again I'll be able to watch it, not before.

You are not like Hannah Baker, you are taking action while you are alive, you have not just given up like she did. I do think she could have gone after Clay if she had the strength, then again maybe Clay could have tried harder too.

Writing letters to those that have helped you - that's a good sign that you are taking action rather than just reacting and also something that reminds you that a few people have been a positive part of your life.

Not all doctors or councilors are like Porter, out of their depth and worse than useless. I've mostly had very good ones.

I can understand you concentrating on your ex in your post, but I'd like to know more. For example are you under any form of treatment for your anxiety and depression. Do you live by yourself? How about family or friends, is there anyone you can talk to who will care?

I'm not just being nosy. With more facts people here can relate more from their experiences and help better.

If you are not under treatment I'd do the following, book a long consultation with your GP and ask to be tested for depression and anxiety - see what happens. I could not climb out of my depressed state without outside help.

Write everything down first if you think you will not get it all clear in the surgery. I had to.

I'd also suggest having a look for information on those two illnesses in The Facts menu above and browsing this Forum to see how others have coped with similar situations.

You will have received an email, in it is details of an app I've found terrific called BeyondNow. You fill it out in advance and reach for it if things get overwhelming. If you can't find it look here:

https://www.beyondblue.org.au/get-support/beyondnow-suicide-safety-planning

Things can get better, as I said you are not Hannah and will not make here mistake.

Please post again and talk more

Croix

13 Reasons Why

lizzie50 — Mon, 10 Apr 2017 05:50:46 GMT

Thanks for the reply!

It was an intense show, however I feel happy that something like this is out there for people that have a negative stigma around mental illness, for them to maybe understand it is an illness and something that deeply affects people and that words can hurt.

I have been seeing a counsellor regarding my anxiety, depression and more often since she sees PTSD signs in me from my abusive ex. I am studying primary teaching and also studying counselling for young people in secondary school specifically so i often do into my session feeling embarrassed cause I am usually the one giving young people some help and find it ironic i am not in this position on the other end. I live with my mum and young sister, Mum is my biggest support system, she is always concerned about me and goes out of her way to ensure she asks how im feeling and we often have movie nights to chat and binge eat junk food when im feeling low. I am not on any medication as I am sometimes apprehensive and concerned about side effects and becoming too dependant on it, it makes me feel like a failure kind of.

My parents have recently split up and my dad leaving the house, which i am very relieved as i have never had a relationship with him and he has never been kind or loving to my mum. Being around him caused my stress and anxiety levels to sky rocket, so i feel now that he has just moved out things around the house will be better and ill feel safer as such as in calmer and having home as an escape.

Its been 4 months since the ending of the relationship, in the past 2 weeks I feel I've had more bad days then good, not wanting to go to work or uni or even socialising with friends. Some of my friends understand while other have a negative stigma around mental illness and feel as though its just a phase and ill get over it, so its hard to explain how i feel and why i want some alone time. Its hard to explain it to people that have never experienced it or been exposed to it. Especially wiht a narcissistic relationship, the emotional and mental trauma is intense and hard to ever explain to someone else.

Thanks for the kind words x

13 Reasons Why

lizzie50 — Mon, 10 Apr 2017 06:00:13 GMT

Thanks Geoff,

Its an intense show, but i feel extremely powerful to people to educate them as such. The countless letters I have written is extensive, even my journal entries from last year when we were together was still talking about his inner fears and how he is a coward etc.

I know in my heart and mind what happened between us, he can say all the nasty words and lies he wants but i know its not the truth. My problem is i always seek validation from others as i always second guess myself, i want him to say the truth however its sad that ill never hear it. Im a big believer in karma and people dont get away with destroying other people, so im sure itll catch up to him one day. I was always too good for him, not to sounds cocky. I had a job, 6 weeks off being a teacher, social life and the ability to acknowledge my issues and mistakes. He delivers pizzas 2 nights a week, left school early, smokes weed everyday and has a small circle of friends, he had no motivation or drive to do better. No awareness that something in his mind isnt right, its sad and scary and i feel i stuck around cause i saw him vulnerable and he didnt like it. Coward is all i say when i think of him.

My goal atm is to gain my self-confidence back and start to trust myself and that i am a smart person. Try and focus on my physical health more and determined to graduate soon. I have deleted and blocked his number now as i have been too tempted to message or call him during my low points. I am not entirely sure if i miss him or the company he provided me. Ive gotta start putting myself first, he broke me so he cant be the one to fix me essentially. xx

13 Reasons Why

Croix — Mon, 10 Apr 2017 07:51:55 GMT

Dear Lizzie50~

Thanks for your reply. I'm very heartened to hear that you have such a good relationship with your mum, when I was at my worst it was absolutely essential, having close family support.

While it is sad parents spit up it sounds as if that was the best thing. Anything that makes stress levels hit the roof needs to be addressed, and if his absence does that, good. How does your mum feel, does she need support?

You sound as if you have so much that is positive in your life, with the end of your uni studies approaching and a new and interesting vocation coming up.

With your friends, I'm sure the good ones will care and give you what you need, even if they do not have the direct life experience to match yours.

There a couple of things I'd mention. Geoff has said it already, your ex is never going to validate you, say he was the one in error or feel guilt. This goes completely contrary to how you've described him here in this thread and elsewhere.

In a back-handed sort of way you are depending upon him, as you say yourself My problem is i always seek validation from others. In this case you may be stuck. Concentrating on the other things in your life may help -I'm guessing I'm afraid, perhaps you counselor may be able to say more.

The other thing is meds. While I'm all in favor of being med-free if possible I found that I could not be. Like many they played a very big part in my recovery. Prior to that I held the same suspicions and reluctance you have talked about, though I don't now think myself a failure for having to take them, any more than a plaster cast for a broken leg.

Properly supervised they can play their part. I'm not advocating anything at all, I specifically am not saying you should take anything. I'm merely saying if a qualified health professional who knows all the facts suggests them, please don't write it off out of hand.

You talked about being a counselor for secondary school. I would imagine that the experiences you have would make you a better and more understanding one.

I hope your plans for your physical health and study work out ok

Croix

13 Reasons Why

bluegurl — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 01:42:17 GMT

I have been just like Hannah Baker since I was 15, in 1975. For me, my soft heart has never hardened enough to deal with the shitty world I live in. I have never attempted suicide, but if i do it will be successful. At 56, I know the world is always going to be a bad place full of hard hearted people that have levels of cruelty in them I will never, ever understand. I am unlike Hannah in that I have a natural defiance which turns me into the hulk when people try to bully me, but I am so tired, my soul gets tireder every year. How long does a person have to endure this torture before you just give up?

13 Reasons Why

bluegurl — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 01:50:00 GMT

Lizzie you seem like a much stronger person than you think you are. I am glad you got away from this man, he sounds like he wasn't capable of appreciating you, or understanding your issues. You deserve so much better.

13 Reasons Why

JessF — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 04:19:10 GMT

Hello bluegurl, I haven't seen the program, but I would like to echo your words to Lizzie about yourself, that you seem much stronger than you think you are. Despite the way you feel about the world, you have not attempted suicide, and it seems you can see big differences between yourself and the character in this show. Reflecting on those differences, like your natural defiance, and why you have made different choices to her holds the key to why you have kept going all these years and why you will continue to keep going.

13 Reasons Why

White_Rose — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 07:07:22 GMT

Hello Lizzie

It's good you believe in yourself and not the lies and put downs from your ex. It is the nature of a narcissist to believe they never do wrong and are incapable of seeing the hurt of others. When they are challenged, as you did by writing to him, they become aggressive and will hit out at you and anything associated with you. So his reply to you was in character, but not true.

Needing others to validate you is also my story. I am learning to believe in myself. I hope you can move on from him. No more letters or other means of communication because he will continue to hurt you. Let him make his own life without you however hard it is at the moment. You need time to heal and start your new life and career without constantly looking over your shoulder to see where he is.

I think most people who post in BB have had an issue with medication. I know I did and it took a while for me to accept the necessity. Generally they are not habit forming. Maybe in the distant past with the advent of antidepressants, some were addictive. I would love to mention names but it's not allowed. Talk about it with your GP or whoever will be prescribing the meds. Side effects can be uncomfortable. Many fade away after a short while and some do not. You need to keep track of how you feel to help your GP know the best AD to prescribe. I have never had a good experience with the commonly prescribed group of ADs called SSRI. I now take an AD from the first group that came out, Tricyclic meds. I have no side effects and more importantly, it works.

I have no idea what will work for you, that's why we have doctors. Write down all your questions and fears and ask your doctor. I doubt they will lie to you. Together you can work out a plan of how to start taking ADs, what to look for in terms of your reactions, whether you need a stronger or reduced dose. It's all up for discussion.

I felt ashamed of taking ADs initially, largely due to the comments of others. But I am happy to take a daily tablet to help manage my diabetes. Does that make sense? Not really. In many ways I am far more dependent on my diabetes meds than my AD. Remember, no one has to know what medication you take. It's not a usual topic of conversation. So if your doctor suggests ADs, have the conversation, ask what they do, how they work, how you start or stop taking them, what to look for. You are a strong person because you believe in yourself. Meds do not make you weak.

Mary

13 Reasons Why

Guest_128 — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 09:16:09 GMT

I am sorry for all your hurt.

but it is time for you to shine!

forget this maggot and live YOUR life. He never understood and never will!

he is winning,still owns you and sucking yourself dry.

CARPE DIEM

13 Reasons Why

lizzie50 — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 07:46:02 GMT

Thank you!
I understand everything you've said, I know i will eventually get past this and I will look back and be like he was a horrible human. I feel ill always have a place in my heart from him as he was my first love, however he is a coward afraid of love and anything real. He lives in a world out of touch with reality, its scary and sad.

I feel obsessive and like my thoughts are taking over my mind, today while at work i just broke down crying and i couldnt even give a reason why because it just feels like its everything. I feel overwhelmed.

I am positive you are strong person too and you deserve nothing but the best!

13 Reasons Why

lizzie50 — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 07:56:07 GMT

Hi White Rose, thanks for the reply its lovely to hear from you!

Its crazy, half the time when we argued i honestly had no idea how it started, where it came from and what we were even arguing about. Most of the time i just agreed with what he said because i couldnt be bothered arguing, it was always after we had been on amazing dates and started to get close he would back away because he is a coward and afraid of being vulnerable. Its hard because I dont know what he thinks of me, i shouldn't care but god i really do for some reason. I am starting to trust myself more and know everything his said about me is pure lies. It was always over text too, in person he never said a nasty thing to me it was always the opposite and its so easy to hide behind a screen. Narcissist are toxic scary people, its worse they dont even see it. His friends and family obviously believe him and what his said about me, they think im a lying cheating crazy person. His mum however always said to me how scared he is of anything real and serious, anything that makes him real and makes him vulnerable, she said 'i know what his like, if you ever have trouble with him one to me' red flag there!! He was always angry if i spoke to her, monitoring us and would never let us be alone in a room together, i wasnt allowed her number nothing! Anytime she confronted him, he threatened to leave the house. Scary

That does makes sense to me yes, from experiences my older friends have said about it, it didnt work for them they felt it was worse for them. However as you've said its different for everyone, my GP is lovely and i trust his advice his always been honest with me about things. I have booked an appointment next week and i am actually looking forward to it, feels like i am making steps forward even if its just a doctors appointment. I really appreciate everyones advice on here and letting me rant all the time, its like im a broken record!

13 Reasons Why

White_Rose — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 10:46:31 GMT

Hello Lizzie

Good to hear from you. This is the place to rant in safety and no one will think the worse of you because we have all done it. I must admit I smiled when I read about you crying at work, a nice friendly smile. I will tell you my story. I had become extremely depressed but was definitely not going to tell anyone at work. So I would get to the door of my office and put a smile on my face and breeze in. One morning I did this then got to my desk and realised I had left a piece of personal writing on my desk and bout how I felt. I was terrified someone had read it, no matter that it was highly unlikely, and I fell apart. Sat at my desk and cried.

The room gradually got quiet and a colleague came over to me and took me out of the room. Can you imagine how embarrassed I was, how humiliated I felt? Talk about let it all hang out, I made it so very obvious. No one commented about it for which I was thankful. My colleague took me to a local GP who wrote a referral to a psychiatrist and basically ordered me to go. In retrospect it was quite funny but it took me a long time see that. And that was really the start of my journey.

What you say about your ex being afraid of being vulnerable is true. He will always have the need to be the boss and will attack anyone who challenges him. It's amazing how they can make you feel in the wrong no matter what has happened. And then you miss them so much because they really appeared to be the caring sort. So comfort yourself that you will get over him and realise you got out of a potentially nasty partnership.

Take time to heal. Do all the things you like and enjoy the company of your friends. The dark days will end and you will be happy again.

Take your notes to your GP appointment and ask anything you want to know. I would love to know how you get on if that's OK with you.

Mary

13 Reasons Why

Croix — Tue, 02 May 2017 01:14:45 GMT

Dear All~

I viewed the 13 Reasons Why series, I have not read the book. I wanted to give my impressions in case others were considering viewing it too.

OK, I do not want to give much detail - I do not recommend viewing it unless one has a valid reason for doing so - not just for entertainment.

I viewed it all after attempting to answer a poster (Lizzie50), wanting to have a more thorough grounding in case there might be others.

I found it overall a very unpleasant experience, a couple of scenes I had to cue forward though. I would imagine for any in this forum who have come into contact in some manner with suicide it might act as a trigger.

It is a well made teen-oriented drama, good acting and quite skillfully thought out, though set in a universe that only has 'attractive looking' people (not one overweight student I could see in a whole school?)

The publicity surrounding it maintains the series is a social good talking about 'conversations that we think are necessary to be had'.

It breaks many established rules on the portrayal of suicide, ignores the realities of mental illness and downplays the availability of support services. It emphasizes the gulf between teen and adult, portraying the latter as being mainly incapable or irrelevant.

As far as I can see those with the intelligence and judgment to be able to gain benefit from it would gain that benefit anyway in other ways.

Those that are more impressionable may be unduly influenced into thinking suicide is a desirable romantic action giving power and doing good, as well as being a vehicle for revenge and getting attention.

I am unsure of the effect on a person who only watches parts of the series, as I guess it would depend which parts were watched.

Croix

13 Reasons Why

lizzie50 — Tue, 02 May 2017 07:37:48 GMT

Thanks for the reply Mary!

The people i work with i have for years and one in particular feels like a second mum and she was so supportive to me and had said she noticed me acting different the past few days. Thats a lovely story, i dont think some people realise a simple thing can help so much. We had another argument just the other day, he made me feel so stupid and small. He said we ended 4 months ago and its stupid i still even care, still denies anything he has ever done to me. Says that my 'hobby' is to blame him for things and make him feel guilty for things he hasn't done, its amazing even me listing the things he did wrong and how much damage he caused and still deny deny. Sticks by his story of not being afraid of love and vulnerability and that i lied to him and cheated, when i pointed out he actually cheated he said 'we weren't offical' such a hypocrite mind you i never cheated. He created these amazing elaborate stories still to this day and its baffling. He gave me a speech that i need to grow up and take responsibility for my life and all i do is pretend to be depressed and suicidal. It really hurt when him knowing i had attempted to take my life and he thought it was childish and stupid and didnt seem to even care. Crazy, i was speechless! Then he switches and says how much he cares for me and would never want me sad and thinks i am amazing and wants me to be happy and safe, my mind cant handle it. However it finally hit me that he isnt going to change, he is a horrible human that destroys the people closest to him, he isnt going to admit his wrongs, isnt mature enough to face his insecurities, issues or fears. I deserve better.

My GP appointment went well, he is always so lovely to talk with. I took notes, we went through some good books for me to be reading, getting into a better sleeping pattern, got another referral to see my counsellor again also!

Hope you've been well x

13 Reasons Why

Haether — Fri, 19 May 2017 04:47:04 GMT

Hi Lizzie - I just wanted to respond to your comment that you found it ironic that you were studying counselling while being counselled - my psychiatrist is aware of psychiatrists with bipolar (obviously not in the closet enough that he doesn't know, but pretty firmly in the closet) - I know the psychologist I see has seen a psychologist in the past; if you had diabetes and were studying to be an endocrinologist people wouldn't think twice about it, that would be considered a legitimate motivation to want to be a Dr specialising in diabetes treatment, and I don't think it should be less of a motivation for people with psychiatric illnesses, or who just need some help with life's difficulties. One of the world's leading experts in bipolar has the illness herself and saw a psychiatrist once a week for most of her life. As regards antidepressants, perhaps you could look for information regarding their effectiveness, particularly in comparison to alternative therapies.

13 Reasons Why

Lucy3 — Mon, 22 May 2017 11:09:01 GMT

Hi Lizzie

I had the 13 reasons why sitting on my shelf for weeks before I felt I was in the right frame of mind to watch it.

Everyone around me was talking about it, but I just couldn't bring myself to watch as my stress levels were quite high. Once I did decide to watch it, I watched the whole lot in 24hrs !!! Crazy !!!

I was actually quite surprised. But I think that's because I was in the right frame of mind. If I wasn't, I probably would have taken everything negative about it and twisted it to fit my life. But I didn't. The biggest thing I brought away from the show was the MASSIVE effect suicide has on the people who are left behind ! It is so sad. And even when you think all is lost and no one cares, there is always SOMEONE who does care and who will be left devastated.

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. All I ask of myself is to give myself another 24hrs and so far Ive had 1,981 24 hr hours 🙂 ( no I dont count lol, thats an educated guess 🙂 )

Also, in regard to your EX. Ive had one of those too. And the one thing I realized many years later, now Im in a very loving stable relationship is that all they want is power over you. And if you let him have power even though your no longer together, then he wins !! Dont let him. Take back your power. You have done the right thing, you have blocked him... Now do as I did lol. Move on and have a great life without him !!! My Ex contacted me 8 yrs after we split telling me he made the biggest mistake of his life leaving me as he has so many problems now. My response was you leaving me was the best thing you ever did for me as my life is great 🙂 Thats the best thing you can do, live your own life for you and only you. You come first always. Yes its ok to put others in there too, but with out you, life would never be the same. So look after You 🙂

Well done thus far and thanks for the 13 reasons why thread. If others read this and you do watch 13 reasons...try to find the good message in there 🙂

Thanks for reading