topic Abusive parents and their effect on us, their children in PTSD and trauma

Abusive parents and their effect on us, their children

white knight — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 08:07:53 GMT

In my case I never saw the treatment of me by my mother as being abused. No doubt in my mind the reason is- she would ty to convince me that her treatment of me is for discipline reasons or its how all parents bring up their children.

It wasn’t until I became an adult, around 21yo that I realised this level of control will never end.

My tolerance lasted till I was 54yo and then the relationship, well I terminated it. The last 6 years have been wonderful, there was no other way.

So if a child feels so aggrieved by his/her parent that there is no other option but to disown there must be something serious that has been ongoing for a long time. The problem is, that the parent is often in denial, for “I’m the parent” attitude often prevails in their mind if they are a controller. Might is right! No it isn’t parent- RIGHT IS RIGHT.!

Lets go back a few generations. Say 1900. This period might be your great grandfathers time as a toddler. My granddad was one year old then. Many parents had traditional methods of parenting. Physical slapping or forcing children to do things was the norm. Dad was the law and mum was his servant unless mum possessed some incredible ways of manipulation in order to get things done her way. And her safety wasn’t secure either in many cases. Now 116 years isn’t that long ago in generation periods. Just 3-4 generations. I’m mentioning this because if that old fashioned method of life behind close door was adopted by the tyrants child and the grandchild…you could well be the next child to be abused. The handing down of methods of bringing up a child hadn’t changed regardless of its unacceptability in the modern world.

However, as adults of the modern world with these forms of control becoming unacceptable we know it is wrong and we rebel.

I can recall when my kids were babies. We were told not to breast feed, what to feed them, that we weren’t good parents, that we should be living in a home of more quality standard, that I should work more hours and “get a better job”. These expectations were unsustainable. My tolerance was finite.

When this happens it is abuse. It’s at least “stepping over the line”. For your own mental health and stability begin to set your boundaries. Be clear, direct, consistent, firm, fair and allow some time for it all to sink in. Then if all fails don’t feel guilty. You did your best with a parent that didn’t want limits to their control. You were a puppet seen no other way.

Tony WK

Abusive parents and their effect on us, their children

blondguy — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 18:30:45 GMT

Good Morning Tony WK

What a great topic. I would like to echo your thoughts exactly and If I may quote something you said "The last 6 years have been wonderful, there was no other way."

Through decades of 'over' control from my dad, I also was left with no choice except to terminate my relationship with my dad. Many people will probably find that 'over the top' or re-active instead of pro-active.

It was one of the 'kindest' decisions I have ever made to improve my overall health. I still notice how wonderful I feel every minute of the day to have removed this toxic/negative relationship from my life.

Your daughter has a great dad Tony. What you did in one hour with having the new shoes delivered to school was magnificent and so very kind. We seem to have a great deal in common 🙂

Thankyou Tony

Paul

Abusive parents and their effect on us, their children

Starwolf — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 22:18:39 GMT

Thanks guys for these important posts. They will no doubt help those of us who have/had a toxic childhood. Toxins poison us, sometimes obviously, sometimes in a slower, insidious manner.

I also come from a soul destructive past. I had to leave the family behind to survive it. Not everybody can do change. My parents were among those so there was no hope, no alternative. It took a while to forgive but I eventually realized they didn't have it in them to acknowledge their issues, never mind rising above them. They couldn't help themselves and so were compelled to act the way they did. Sad but none of my business. I wasn't responsible for their antics but had a duty to myself. Retreat is sometimes the wise, brave alternative to pointless defeat.

Abusive parents and their effect on us, their children

white knight — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 23:38:55 GMT

Hi Paul,

We do have a lot in common. In fact this thread was inspired by your experience with your father.

Countless times people, usually relatives think my reactions are unessessary but all relationships are unique and be damned if guilt will conquer me

Its odd, the inflicting parent is never challenged.Its like they have automatic immunity to treat their children with emotional and/or physical abuse, blackmail or manipulation.

We both Paul are lucky, for we made the move...some are forced under the spell of a parent that "owns" them forever with fear or even lack of the parents approval.

Some adult children will sadly never be good enough.

Tony wk

Abusive parents and their effect on us, their children

white knight — Tue, 22 Mar 2016 05:03:43 GMT

Top reply starwolf. Well said. Newcomer's here will get some clarity in their lives when they read these responses.

Tony wk

Abusive parents and their effect on us, their children

blondguy — Tue, 22 Mar 2016 23:42:59 GMT

Good Morning Tony

I have mentioned your thread to some non members I know that are still trying so hard to be a 'good daughter' or son at the expense of their own well being. An absolute crackerjack of a thread that I hope some people can voice their thoughts on to assist themselves and others by doing so.

Starwolf "Retreat is sometimes the wise, brave alternative to pointless defeat".........Bullseye...x

Paul

Abusive parents and their effect on us, their children

pipsy — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 08:05:18 GMT

Hi guys. I too, as you know, come from an extremely toxic background. Victim of sexual abuse, victim also, because even though mum knew, she turned a blind eye. My dad was an alcoholic, non-violent, but extremely narcissistic. He never knew I was being sexually abused, had he known, I have no idea how he would've reacted. Everything in those days (early 50's/60/s) was 'accepted', though. No-one interfered. What happened behind closed doors, stayed behind closed doors. Like Tony, I didn't realize I was being abused, because I thought all families were the same. Counting this marriage (my 3rd), all 3 were not good. My first MIL, I must admit was the sweetest person I've ever known. My first hubby was the eldest of 8 children, and both his parents were very liberal (for those days). They took me in and treated me as just another person, same rights as the others. They respected me and they did teach me to value myself. The marriage (however, failed) because we married for the wrong reasons. Me to escape toxic home life, him because he was 'gay' and his parents, although very liberal, would never have accepted that. His parents were not homophobic, they just wouldn't have understood. Second marriage, no in-laws, just ex wife, Charles, Diana and Camilla type marriage. This marriage, everyone here knows what went wrong. I'm stronger, now have belief in myself. We all need emotional support when things get to the point where we have to make decisions. Having the support of BB, all the people on these forums have 'been there' for everyone else. It's good feeling to know we're not islands, but part of a caring community. We do have a 'family' in the forums, but it's a caring supportive family, non-judgemental.

Ride on. BB.

Abusive parents and their effect on us, their children

blondguy — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 10:47:46 GMT

Please excuse me Tony......:-)

Dear Pipsy..my heart aches to read what you have been through...(no advice here Pipsy...just respect)

My mum also turned a blind eye to the beatings we received. My dad taking his belt off in his early 30's and telling us to wait in the basement for a 'good thrashing', I was 5 years old! (He made us wait for the beating) Hmm I wonder where my anticipatory anxiety came from? She remembers but said she was 'busy'...Bless her heart (more info about my mum in the BB Cafe I just posted earlier this evening on her dementia...yes I agree..a dumb place to air my laundry..but there is no communal thread I can talk to kind people like yourself or Tony!

My sister who is circa 50 also has endured similar to yourself....Bad things. You are so right about the 60's. I was 5 and remember the police coming into our house after a neighbor called them about my dad's violence. I still remember it like it was yesterday...as well as my fathers handprints on my thighs and calves for days...and the handprints my dad left on my sisters legs. She was 4 at the time when we came to Oz in 1970. My mum has had since told me that she had to dress my 4 year old sister in a dress to hide the hand prints marks/bruising.

Like yourself Pipsy I am stronger now and thanks to the family we belong to on BB we can give something back to any people that are experiencing any problems..irrespective of age or degree of problem that they have 🙂

With all my Respect Pipsy and a (hug) if thats okay with you of course..

(Thankyou for the necessary and great Thread Tony)

Paul

Abusive parents and their effect on us, their children

pipsy — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 11:26:32 GMT

Hi Paul, and many thanks for your kind words and hugs. I am also so sorry for what you endured. I think, though that the suffering we endure either makes us better people or we become carbon copies of what we were taught (be it right or wrong). They say if a child is taught to hate and be violent, he either 'goes with it' or finds violence abhorrent to him. I hate violence of any description. Your hug much appreciated. My parents never hugged or told us we were loved or wanted. When my dad died (in N.Z), my brother returned from Australia after several years absence. Dad was only 56, alcohol and smoking killed him. I was in N.Z till 1988. My mother was literally all over my brother from the moment she saw him. Hugging, kissing, made me feel ill. That was the first of many hugs brother received, I was still 'out in the cold'. I went through the 'hate, wanting them both dead' etc. I think mum had always wanted to be more affectionate toward my brother, but was only able to once dad passed. My biggest fear now is if someone does try to show me affection, I get a bit 'gun shy', suspicious. My mum has since passed, (leaving everything to my brother, talk about being rewarded). One day I might meet someone who doesn't have parents, lol. Not sure if that's possible.

Again - many thanks for your kindness. Much appreciated. Hugs and kisses to you too.

If that's acceptable.

Abusive parents and their effect on us, their children

blondguy — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 04:06:51 GMT

Hey Pipsy

Your hug is so very kind and needed right now. Thankyou for your kind thoughts about the abuse too

I have had to 'learn' everything in reverse when it came to parenting. My daughter is 23 and going through a gothic rebellious stage and lives on her own and happy to do so. I am so happy to say that irrespective of my fathers (lack) of child rearing skills I have been fair, kind and set normal guidelines for her..and have never laid a hand on her where discipline was concerned:-) I did remove the odd playstation console when she crossed the line lol

We can learn in reverse Pipsy. My sincere condolences to you about your dad. My mum is 86 and smokes 2 cartons of Benson & Hedges a week and her lung function tests keep coming up 'all clear'.....which I just dont understand but am happy her LFT is clear. I am 56 and smoke and will always keep trying to kick the sticks.

I am sorry for the loss of your mum too Pipsy. I hope your brother 'tried a little kindness' and helped you out after he was bequeathed everything in the will.

I do hope you have a peaceful easter break Pipsy ((Hugs)) xx

Paul 🙂

TONY WK Thankyou again for such a great topic...You Legend!

Abusive parents and their effect on us, their children

pipsy — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 04:55:38 GMT

Hey Paul. Thank you for the reply. In answer to your query re: brother leaving me anything, no, nothing. He was asked to reimburse me the trip back to N.Z which he grudgingly did. He was in jail at the time of mum's death. Mum's solicitor wrote a letter to him requesting advice re: part of her estate to be bequeathed to me. I accidentally received the solicitors letter, plus brothers reply. He said emphatically, NO, nothing was to be given to me. At the time, I 'spat', luckily though, I was having sessions with a psych because of all I'd been through. The psych helped me accept and be grateful because if I had received anything, my brother would've 'drunk' his share, then pushed me for my share.

I too have grown children and they tell me I was a good mum. My daughter went through (what I refer to as a yuk stage as a child), her dad (my 1st hubby) committed suicide when she was 6, I had to tell her, her daddy was very sick. When she was 12 I had to try to explain about her dad. My son, 4 years younger wasn't affected because he never knew his dad. They're basically good kids, married, daughter has 3 kids (1 g'child), son has 2 kids. I don't see them much, they're busy, but we keep in touch. Daughter's not keen on my ex, son neutral.

Have a safe and happy Easter. Thanks for the condolences re: my parents. I miss what I never had with them. They say you don't miss what you never had, but when you see other happy families, you do. I do have a fab relationship with SIL and DIL, both fabulous people. Enjoy g'child, she's gorgeous.

Abusive parents and their effect on us, their children

white knight — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 07:51:13 GMT

Thankyou Paul and Pipsy, nice words are never wasted.

Recovery from a narc parent isn't easy. I have a friend that had a narc father and like you Paul his belting came far too hard and too often. (But to be in anticipation like yours Paul, that's terrible abuse).

I realised early on that he couldn't move forward easily from the memories and the anger. So I told him to imagine this abuse was a wide river with many stepping stones. Each stone is a problem. Once you step onto the next stone the previous one sinks below the surface. Each step onto a stone represents you pondering on the problem, full focus, no distractions about other problems, they will come later.

As we discussed his progress over time he told me that he was stuck on the fact that his dad could do such a thing and didn't believe he loved his son at all. But "whats wrong with that, I asked". Funny it is, for those 4 words snapped something in his mind....suddenly he realised that his father didn't love him as a father should and that's a fact and there was an expectation (understandably) that his father should have loved him.

Those 4 words were not due to any psychological training or knowledge of mine. It is fact that some people move forward incredibly quickly when they are told something that is logical that they themselves hadn't thought of.

Of course the greatest reaction one can have to a history, a childhood of abuse is to raise ones children without it and preach to others the seriousness of it. And support those suffering it.

We cant erase the event. We can fool ourselves however to believe that we are "lucky" that it wasn't worse, that we survived it all. Pat ourselves on the back- why not!! We beat you!!

I have lost many family members as my mother at a ripe age of 83 spreads my evil doings. But I have since adopted several loving caring friends into my world. A few are mother figures. I am not short of love.

One couple I met 10 years ago. They had lost two adult children to a terrible crime. I met the victims mother at their gravesite 10 days after the event. I asked if I could write to her. She agreed. I have sent her about 60 poems over that 10 years. Walk into her dining room and her walls are filled with my framed poems. She became a friend for life.

It comes down to love. Love is the healer, to give it without reward, for the reward - love, will come around anyway..and that my friends is how I made it to the other side of the river...

Tony WK

Abusive parents and their effect on us, their children

blondguy — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 09:16:10 GMT

Pipsy

I just read about you daughter and I absolutely no idea/comprehension of what you went through. I am not religious but bless your kind heart for doing everything you possibly could. Your kids have a great mum! I just want to quote something you mentioned if thats okay " When she was 12 I had to try to explain about her dad "

I dont know how you dealt with the tsunami of pain you went through over such a protracted period of time. (And of course...absolutely no advice from me here...none...you dont need any..)

Your post has nearly made me cry...bless your kind heart Pipsy...It doesnt mean much at all but I hope you can accept my respect and admiration for everything you stand for...including being one wonderful and special mum xx

Paul

Abusive parents and their effect on us, their children

pipsy — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 11:39:36 GMT

Hi Paul and bless you for your understanding. My daughter kept asking why her daddy wasn't there from the time of her 6th birthday. All I could tell her till she was 12 was that her daddy's sickness had killed him. When she turned 12, she asked specifically what 'sickness' had killed him. I just told her that sometimes when people are really sick, God takes them 'home' so that they suffer no more. I did eventually explain his suicide to her, I think she was nearly 13, she, by that time, had started 'acting up'. She started 'acting up' when she was 7, so I had a Hell of a time with her for years. I think what got me through, was my determination not to be the kind of cold mum, my mum was. Paul, I love my kids so much, I would have done anything to protect them from the s*** I suffered. When my daughter got into her teens, she started settling down. She is now in her late 40's and is the most loving, protective woman it is my privilege to know. It has made all the s*** I went through worth it to see what a beautiful person she is. Her brother never gave me any grief, as I said, he was too young to know what was going on. They are both very loving and protective of me. I had her at 17, which is very young to have a child. My mum turfed me out when she knew I was pregnant. My 1st hubby's parents took me in and through his mum, I learnt how to be a loving mum. I left their place when my daughter was 6 months old. My daughter often tells me, she remembers the nightmares she had, when I would curl up in bed with her and just hold her and talk to her. She was only very young, but it broke my heart when she said how she remembers that. The nightmares started after I told her, her daddy was dead. For a long time the poor kid blamed herself because she thought if she'd been better, daddy wouldn't have died. She finally screamed that at me one day. We worked through that once she realised it was no-ones fault.

Paul, I'm okay, I have my days, but few and far between. Thank you so much for allowing me to share.

Abusive parents and their effect on us, their children

blondguy — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 15:47:14 GMT

Pipsy....my jaw is still on the floor with the narrow and potholed road you have traveled..and your daughter...bless her heart! Her nightmares she had..and remembering them as well. It breaks my heart Pipsy. You have also learned 'in reverse' not to be the cold person your mum was...My dad is 81 and refuses to have 'Meals on Wheels' service...as he thinks the food 'would be poor in quality' I am glad I have cut ties...There is only so much negativity a person can take....Since the Global Financial Crises a few years ago...2009? I Think....He now blames the jews for him losing a huge chunk from his super.....It just never ends....

Just before I cut ties with him...We were watching a National Geographic Documentary on Auschwitz...a recent one....He actually said and I quote ' I think that the Hitler got it right with the Jews'....I was sitting right next to him approx 5 years ago and was in disbelief with what he said to me...I will never forget what he said....

Im sorry Pipsy....Thankyou for letting me speak/share my thoughts...I am so disappointed and also pity him.

If Tony didnt post this thread/topic we wouldnt be having this conversation....Thanks again Mr T..I hope you are having a peaceful Easter...

Ciao

Abusive parents and their effect on us, their children

chociloni — Sat, 26 Mar 2016 04:25:31 GMT

Great post White Knight! I agree with everything you've said.

I have narcissistic parents too, I have come a long way, but I still get angry at myself at times for accepting their support. I have very bombarding / controlling parents, and it's often hard for me to realise boundaries with people. I want to stand alone but I've been struggling with unemployment and have been accepting their financial support which also comes with a major guilt trip. I am also originally from Perth, and I live now all the way over in Melbourne so I'm that far away from them!

I'm not calling the posters on here old but it sounds like you guys are very experienced and this stuff takes time and its a learning experience / journey. I am 38 and have learnt a lot, and through my struggles have realised what real self confidence and a real sense of self actually feels like.

Abusive parents and their effect on us, their children

Starwolf — Sun, 27 Mar 2016 02:45:02 GMT

Thanks for another great post, Tony.

Yes, I agree with you that realizing our parents couldn't love us helps move on from the abuse we received at their hands. Throughout my childhood, my mother kept repeating that I was a cuff, ball and chain around her ankle. But understanding the full meaning of this only came much later. When she had her children, contraception was not an alternative. At the time, having/ raising children was the accepted and expected norm. Straying away from it would have meant public scorn and being ostracized. I understood that having unwanted children imposed on her by society's demands must have felt like an unfair jail sentence. Besides, there were other unresolved issues in her life before then. My elder sister was raised by a grandmother, then she was reclaimed by my parents for appearance sake only to be locked up in a remote boarding school until she turned 18. I envied her but boarding fees for 2 kids were unaffordable so I stayed on to become my mother's punching ball.

Although I cut all family ties, I feel compassion for both parents, knowing circumstances turned my mother into a dangerous, psychotic mess (subconsciously, she wanted me dead) while my father felt helpless and did absolutely nothing but take me to work with him whenever he could. Fear of scandal played in my favor. He ended up committing suicide a few months after retiring...to escape 24/7 life with someone impossible to live with. I guess he may have felt responsibility towards her and couldn't leave. Maybe...

It helped realize that I wasn't at fault (as I was repeatedly told) and that I was more a victim of circumstances than of 2 particular people who couldn't cope with them. I was a resented imposition into their life.They couldn't love me.

And yes, although it was a very close call a few times, I'm still alive and "reasonably" functional. So...well done to all of us survivors !

Abusive parents and their effect on us, their children

pipsy — Sun, 27 Mar 2016 06:00:41 GMT

Hey Paul, nice to hear back from you. I used to work in the kitchen for meal on wheels. Each week I worked they were good, wholesome meals. MOW, cater also for diets, special needs etc. We had corned meat, with veggies, white sauce etc. We had mince with pasta, veggies. There is soup, desert. The clients either had them for lunch, or re-heat for dinner. The only real down side now is the cost, they are expensive. Also with your dad, he could be fighting to retain what independence he has left. At 81, it's quite a step to have to 'give in' and accept help he otherwise might not need. I'm sorry to say this, but I chuckled at the comment he made re: the Jews and their being to blame for his super. While I was involved with the agency I was with, where we helped the elderly with shopping and home help support. Some of them are in the early stages of Dementia and some of their comments would've made me angry had it not being for accepting that a lot of them were war vets and have seen so much suffering and loss of privileges, it crippled their minds and made them extremely bitter. A lot of them still see in their minds a time when life was simple. My dad had a crap life and that's what made him the narc he became. His dad before him was a piece of work, so history repeats it self frequently. Unfortunately, the damage done to our parents, g'parents is quite often never resolved and the next generation suffers because. By the time the next generation realises the problem it's too late, because the next generation becomes just as angry as the previous. It's quite a vicious cycle. Try not to get too impatient with your dad, remember he believes what he believes.

Abusive parents and their effect on us, their children

pipsy — Sun, 27 Mar 2016 06:12:55 GMT

Hi choiloni. I suppose you had to put up with the same as I did with your parents. My dad frequently told me I'd never amount to anything. If I tried to sing (tried) being the operative word, I was immediately told, I couldn't sing, was flat (out of tune, etc). My mum was a total control freak, it was her way or no way. The destruction caused by these toxic people plus my disastrous attempts at marriage (all 3 failed) really had me believing everything I had been told. Having no choice, but to accept their financial help doesn't make for a happy life either for you. I have no real words of wisdom except could you enroll in a tafe course doing something you really enjoy. Perhaps you would be entitled to c'link assistance while you are studying. I know it's not much, but it would go a long way to making you feel more positive about trying to build a life. Is Austudy still on offer, I know there is Newstart, that's what I'm on, I also receive rent assistance, that's not much either, but c'link do have a budget advisory service that could also assist you.

Abusive parents and their effect on us, their children

chociloni — Sun, 27 Mar 2016 06:38:51 GMT

Thanks Pipsy. I am on Newstart, I have a crappy casual job cleaning houses plus I get the occasional freelance design job. I'm not fully financially dependant on them, I have just been using their money more recently when times have gotten tough. I have found a online tafe course which I really want to do, and fingers crossed I will get austudy for it, the tafe people said it was approved. Austudy is way more kinder to you...new start you're treated like a number.

I'm sorry you're on Newstart, do you have any other income or career aspirations?