topic Re: Is this Gaslighting in PTSD and trauma

Is this Gaslighting

Macme — Tue, 12 Dec 2023 23:35:23 GMT

I was involved in industry reform of a specific industry that was very very politically volatile. The process required me to go through a role change which included a mental change from a unionist oriented role to a role that was more in tune with corporate ideology.

I carried some of the union values across the line into corporate psychological territory.

Some people were very unhappy about my outlook and decided to force me through a process of ideology reshaping, or aligning my mind to their ideology.

Some of the tactics used to destabilise me included the use of electronic monitoring techniques.

1 example of one of the tactics is as follows:-

I purchased a new Honda line trimmer and then the next day I had a call from a telesales operator, who was trying to sell new tiled roofs. The fellow prattled for minutes then I went to end the call and then the fellow thanked me for my time and said he had to go anyway because he was going to buy a new Honda line trimmer, which of course is exactly what I had done the day before. Another example is after making calls about oversees holiday to a specific destination, and 2 females joined the queue behind me and raised and projected their voices toward me and started saying things that had a high degree of familiaritie to the calls I had made about the holiday.

These types of situations are only a couple of a range of tactics that are used.

I have used the expression of phone tapping and also covert psychological destabilisation. I have recently heard of a situation called gaslighting.

My query is,

Could the above described situations be described as "GASLIGHTING"

Re: Is this Gaslighting

tranzcrybe — Tue, 12 Dec 2023 06:13:45 GMT

I wouldn't describe this as gaslighting. It sounds closer to the behaviour of a religious cult in pursuing your daily activities and making it known you are being monitored to unsettle you.
Your 'telemarketer' should have had only one objective (and what a limited field he chose!) and his pointed remark, if a genuine call, would be irrelevant, out of line, and not in acordance with procedure.
Your 'van friends' would have had no reason to raise their voices if truly discussing (coincidental) holiday plans.
No, not gaslighted, I think you are being intimidated which is moronic bullying. If they have a point to make, let them make it through the proper channels.
I feel sorry for the childishness within your organisation but it may not be limited to the few, so going further up the chain of command could be futile.
It appears you have been removed from the union role in order to be silenced/bought/reconditioned - and there is surely some document you signed agreeing to whatever conditions they devised.

Re: Is this Gaslighting

Macme — Tue, 12 Dec 2023 07:25:53 GMT

Definitely intimidation but it seems above and beyond when it includes electronic surveillance or other monitiring

Re: Is this Gaslighting

Croix — Tue, 12 Dec 2023 11:47:52 GMT

Dear Macme~

I'd have to agree with Tranzcrybe that this is not gaslighting but something else. Gaslighting consists of attempting to make a person beleive something did not happen, or happened in a different way to what they remembered. It is a means of controlling another by making them doubt themself.

As I don't know your line of work I am unsure if the tile salesperson was one of the staff, or if you do not have phone salespersons. Either way they appeared to have some knowledge of your recent purchase and are therefore connected with you and your firm.

With the two females who I presume are part of your firm it would appear they were in some way trying to jeer or otherwise unsettle you.

If you have been a conscientious member of a union you will have views about employment, and these do not always align with what the employer wants. If you retain those views it may be the opposite of that the employer may have hoped for.

As a result I guess if you are not breaking any rules and they want ot get rid of you than making your life unpleasant might be one way of getting you to quit. It does however involve the willing cooperation of at least three other people in the events you described.

Another possibility is you challenge the comfortable beliefs of existing employees and they are trying to make life miserable off their own bat.

They may even see their actions as funny, giving the new ex-union person a serving. I would not be that surprised if this was the case.

Should you wish to take any action I'd strongly suggest you thoroughly document each event in detail as soon as it happens

I"m not sure what you wish to do about this:

You can try to ignore it in the hope it lessens

You can quit

You can talk with the offending persons in a polite and restrained manner (preferably before unbiased witnesses) and ask them the reason for their conduct -and repeat that with every one of them. That might give you a bigger picture of what is going on.

You can place a formal complaint, possibly of bullying, within the organisation or if that fails with

https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/safety-topic/hazards/bullying

I"m not sure that any of these options does not have a down-side, what do you think?

Croix

Re: Is this Gaslighting

Macme — Wed, 13 Dec 2023 01:03:21 GMT

Thanks for your reply Croix.

This situation is far and beyond anything like bullying, and is certainly politically motivated.

The individuals involved in the telephone games act in such a way o keep their identity hidden and if one began confronting people in public places that may have said something familiar, then its asking for police involvement in the wrong way that could easily lead to section 19 schedule.

The motivation was to ensure that anyone moving into the companies ranks, did not bring any ideology with them that the company didn't agree with. The company expressed severe intolerance for disobedience

The industry was intercontinental shipping the company was a very large multinational miner.

They also had a preference for males that were not entirely heterosexual.

This latter facet is one that caused some severe clashing of personalities and ideologies, I am instinctually heterosexual and have never engaged in sexual contact of any description with other males, and had on several occasions had to deal with unwanted messaging about whose role it was to do what in terms of providing sexual function to more senior officers

I'm not so much interested in any term/name or other description, so long as I can find something accurate if it exists.

The term covert psychological destabilisation is also very close to the mark.

Though gaslighting is normally reserved to describe the acts of one individual against another.

Situations similar to a call from an unknown individual in relation to mundane issue then to end the call with a bombshell "mental impact" by quickly concisely stating something that has overtones of excessive familiarities is what begins the doubting and paranoid reactions, it echoes and screams within, for hours and even days when it occurs.

Also the situations of having 2 fellows glide past in a public place and voicing subject matter that funnily enough was unnervingly close to subject matter that you had had during telephone discussions about in the very near recent past, either the day before or day before that.

On a trip to the USA "5 weeks" i had strong reason to believe that i was being scrutinised similarly in UK and as well in Japan.

The following is a cut & paste from wiki and if the term gaslighting was removed the rest of it would fit almost perfectly.

Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse where a person causes someone to question their sanity, memories, or perception of reality. People who experience gaslighting may feel confused, anxious, or unable to trust themselves and others.

I Have a report from a clinical Psychologist that acknowledged the telephone interceptions.

Another issue is more of a secondary issue when a Female federal member of parliament made attempts to employ sexual coercion, and i terminated that contact using a very forgettable method.

So i have trod on a couple of toes and they kicked back.

The query remains.

Its definitely not bullying and it may not be gaslighting if gaslighting is reserved for only 2 people, the doer and the vic.

Covert psychological destabilisation is an effective description.

I have not been actively involved in that industry for a while now, but interventions by others are still occuring occasionally, the last of which was a threatening note left on the windscreen of my vehicle.

Hey Croix are you or Tranzcrybe trained mental health operators.

What do ya reckon.

IMac.

Re: Is this Gaslighting

Macme — Wed, 13 Dec 2023 00:55:09 GMT

Gday again Transcribed.

I have made some notes in a reply to Croix.

Im unsure if you might see that or indeed if its of any interest

Thanks for your previous reply.

Cheers

IMac

Re: Is this Gaslighting

Croix — Wed, 13 Dec 2023 11:20:24 GMT

Dear IMac~

If I understand you correctly you have already left the organisation htat is the source of the trouble. That does make things simpler as it cuts out a couple of expensive and worrying alternatives.

I hope you have been able ot find alternative employment. Would you think in terms of the union, as it is your beliefs based on union experience htat seem to have caused the firm to overreact and behave so unprofessionally.

You are probably right, covert destabilization sounds like a good description, I'm afraid I'm not up on the technical terms other than a few popular ones.

If you believe that htreat on your car is real then do consider taking it to the police. Even if they do not act on it straight away it can help build up a history over time.

Do you get the impression things are quieting down now?

Croix

Re: Is this Gaslighting

Macme — Wed, 13 Dec 2023 23:24:30 GMT

Thanks Croix. For your interest.

4 days ago I received an email from someone advertising for a meeting in a sex type website/meet place. I did not open the page that was attached in the email. Instead and "smelling a dirtier rat than what was evident" I decided to make up a story and send it back as a reply. In the story I briefly related various facets of culture in the past shipping employment including access to underaged adolescents and also about Men's club induction process that included an act of homosexuality. I packed as much dirt as I briefly could and sent it back. The next email came through from the same source with similar talk of meeting on a specific website for dirt talk. I once again loaded a reply "indicating the esteem with which I held the sender.

I was parked at a place called Dixon Park and on a road above the beach that also has a footpath off the curb.

Within about 10 minutes of the invites online to go to a dirt talk site, I was sitting there in my van and 3 fellows walked past whom had very very familiar demeanor and reminded me instantaneously of ships officers "low grade" that I had the misfortune of working with whilst I was at sea.

As these 3 fellows walked past the front of my van and in clear sight of me 2 of the 3 gave a very sort of narcissistic short sharp laugh in my direction, then continued on their way.

So is this my hyper vigilance playing up or did the 3 goons have something to do with sending the sex based emails???

In answer to your question about things settling down. My answer is that when things do seem to settle down then it's only a matter of time before someone does something to let me know that I'm on their radar and causing perceived problems. But they are having to be more covert.

A Problem is that if I took this issue to police or crimes toppers phone service, it would be nothing more than some light entertainment at smoko.

Re: Is this Gaslighting

Macme — Wed, 13 Dec 2023 23:26:25 GMT

The scrutineers of this forum may wipe some content.

A part of issues is definitely

Adolescent access.

Re: Is this Gaslighting

Croix — Thu, 14 Dec 2023 11:55:46 GMT

Dear IMac~

I think as a general rule if somebody does something annoying and you respond, as you have with those emails, then it may encourage them to keep on going. Can I suggest you simply put them in your SPAM and see if they lose interest?

Often htey are just scams to get your details or verify your email address is a valid one.

As for the three people laughing who knows, it may be you have associated something that is coincidence with what is happening in your life.

If you report anything to Crimestoppers - not necessarily anything you have mentioned here, then even if they take no immediate action thay can get to see patterns - such as events in a particular area - and may take action then.

Croix

Re: Is this Gaslighting

Macme — Thu, 14 Dec 2023 23:12:14 GMT

Thanks again Croix.

As far as this statement as follows:-

As for the three people laughing who knows, it may be you have associated something that is coincidence with what is happening in your life.

Generally, 3 people walking past and having a chuckle or even a good old belly laugh is nothing that draws a concern.

These 3 fellows had very noticeable demeanor whose characteristics/ idiosyncrasies are very distinct and one of the tell-tale signs is an obvious projection of a well practicesd air of arrogance.

They were not chuckling to themselves but in fact they projected there laugh, though emotionally shallow, directly toward me, and this was soon after I sent the reply to the sex based email.

I will also say that I have never had this type of email that used my Christian name as well. Most of garbage comes through the sms system but still no specific name.

I have a list of various substantive evidences of 3rd party activities that are designed to keep the pressure on or at least let you know that they are watching and not far away.

It is my belief that their main concern is about what information I have and how much of that, I might pass on, "kind of like whistle blowing"

Key amongst all that is the psychology behind the corporate induction process that this company uses and entails an act of homosexuality on at least one occasion. And once the loyalty factor has been established then there is access to adolescents.

The behaviour of Some of These fellows can readily be described as corporate psychopathy.

The 3 fellows who showed themselves last Sunday after the email games did exhibit some of those traits, and that is what caught my attention.

So getting back to gas lighting

If the 3 fellows were trying to use that stuff as a bait to get some dirt on me, then it's something that is more than nothing. If not then the impacts of past corporate pressures to fit me into a pigeon hole have ongoing effects. Misjudgement being a significant one.

Forced cognitive compliance and punishment for failure to comply is very close to the money, in this situation.

I am still looking for a forum or something that might discuss gaslighting or covert psychological destabilisation.

If you or anyone else have any knowledge of such a forum please send it through.

and that includes the moderators of this forum.

Thanks Croix.

I'm happy to yabba but I need to connect with individuals whom might have experienced anything similar.

Best regards

IMac.

Re: Is this Gaslighting

Macme — Fri, 15 Dec 2023 00:48:58 GMT

Hello again Croix.

I forgot to respond to the crimestoppers advice from you.

I have reported about 8 or 10 instances to crime stoppers over last 10 years or so. One of those reports was about gunshots used in intimidatory fashion whilst I was in a remote and isolated area. There was no cellular reception at the time so it was about 2 days later. The phone receptionist suggested If it occurs again then I should report it. Another instance was a tyre slash and another was a vehicle break-in with interference to my laptop but nothing else touched..

I also went to the police to report an incident associated with a near violent confrontation at a beach. I obtained copies of files some time later using GIPAA. The police officer recorded in the official police records that I was delusional, and someone whom had a disposition toward confrontations. I believe that this information in the official police files has very probably interfered with later assesments, of some of the reports I have made.

But there certainly is a history of it.

Do you know of any forums that fit into this stuff.

Best regards

IMac

Re: Is this Gaslighting

Croix — Fri, 15 Dec 2023 13:12:51 GMT

Dear IMac~

Thanks for coming back wiht such a detailed reply. Unfortunatly I know very little about other forums, perhaps our own 24/7 help line might know more.

It unfortunate if Crime stoppers tends to disregard what you say. All I can suggest is that tangible proof is needed to make them change their minds, such things as independent witnesses or perhaps video.

Croix