topic I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault in PTSD and trauma

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

Summer Rose — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 00:27:34 GMT

John is a disability pensioner from Melbourne who has mental illness. His psychologist was worried about his deteriorating mental health and asked to check on him in September 2017. What happened next, in my opinion, was disturbing, sad, disgraceful and an indictment on the police force. Nothing short of appalling.

John was brutally attacked by officers. He was taunted, humiliated and seriously injured, all under the auspices of the Mental Health Act. Police are empowered by this legislation to use force to take to hospital a person who appears to have a mental illness in order to keep them or others safe.

I watched what actually happened to John on the news this morning and it left me shocked and horrified. What if that was my daughter needing help, needing care, needing support and that was her lying on the ground? I cried. I had to work hard to shake off the numbness I felt.

Now I'm angry and moved to action. I'll be writing to my local MPs today. But I know it's not enough. Does anybody know how we support the "John's" of this world? Is John's story unusual? Has anything like this ever happened to someone you love? Or is it just unusual that his assault was all caught on film and has now been picked up by the media? Does anyone else feel as powerless and sad as I do?

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

monkey_magic — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 14:12:08 GMT

Hi Summer Rose,

I watched what happened to John too, wide eyed i must add. I believe there are many cases of police brutality, this was just caught on film. It was sad that he was subject to this and cruel. He was lying down on the ground for God's sake and they still hit his legs numerous times with the baton and sprayed him with capsicum spray when he wasn't a threat? He didn't look threatening to me surrounded by so many officers lying on the ground unarmed? It all looked ridiculous to me. John seemed weak, not strong and overpowering and they did all of that to him. Poor John or anybody that has been through this sort of unprovoked harm.

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

Quercus — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 14:29:35 GMT

Hi Summer Rose,

Just wanted to congratulate you on your new VC badge and then I saw this thread. Sorry if I'm off on a tangent.

My reaction to the news (apart from turning it off because it freaked me out) was my brain screaming at me... STIGMA. STIGMA. STIGMA!!!

People who haven't experienced a mental illness or cared for a loved one with a MI still find it hard to understand.

We see someone needing help and support and understanding. Others see antisocial behaviour, threats or goodness knows what. I can't help but think the officers probably are just normal people who just lack understanding or training or empathy. That said I have not seen the footage so maybe I'm wrong.

I did want to say when you mentioned feeling hopeless... You've taken two really empowering steps. The first you speak up here. The second... You are a member of blueVoices. I was thinking last night about the first time I asked what bV was and how confusing it seemed. Now I get it is about having a voice. You're not helpless... You join in on activities, answer surveys and questions, talk to people here, contribute lived experiences. Change won't happen until we start speaking up. The more voices the better.

The more we can make people challenge their attitudes towards mental illness the less stigma there will be. Maybe I am living in a dream world... But I want to hope for better.

Nat

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

Summer Rose — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 22:09:44 GMT

Hi Nat

Thanks for the reminder about the power of belonging to bb. I feel a lot better thinking about all the ways bb gives me a voice. We are all making a difference.

What this incident highlighted to me though is that outside our bubble there is still such a long way to go. I expect better, no I demand better, from the police.

Police members receive a lot of training on mental health issues and I'm sure there has been some positive change over the years. But shinning a light on this abhorent incident is a good thing. Hopefully the community pressure will push them further.

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

Summer Rose — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 22:16:15 GMT

Hi Monkey Magic

You and I saw a vulnerable man. Somehow the police saw a threat. How or why is beyond me.

There were so many different ways the encounter with John could have been handled. Hopefully the public airing of the incident will drive change and greater understanding.

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

monkey_magic — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 22:30:29 GMT

Morning Summer Rose,

This seems to have impacted your feelings and i'm not surprised. I have known of many cases where those in power have been negligent so I wasn't that shocked to be honest. They would have known more about John's backstory but I still don't condone what they did at all, it was shocking like you said. I love how you are bringing this to attention and want to be an advocate for change. One persons voice can make a difference as well as the voice of many. Yeah I did see a vulnerable man once that group of police where surrounding him, that would tame/scare most people. Even one officer can be intimidating with their role of authority. He was surrounded and had no escape. Perhaps John had been inside a mental ward before and was actually frightened. And then they go and belittle, and physically hurt him. It's not ok to cause someone pain when they are already in pain and I think John was. John is applying for compensation so we'll see what happens.

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

Summer Rose — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 02:30:25 GMT

Hi Monkey Magic

Your post has really made me think about why I was so badly shocked and saddened. I think it's because I was raised to respect police and have always viewed them as a positive force in the community.

Every encounter I have ever had with a police officer has been positive--they have helped me when I was robbed and comforted me after a horrific traffic accident, eventually successfully prosecuting the drunk driver who hit me. On the odd occasion where I have been at the receiving end of a traffic ticket, the exchange has always been respectful.

I have never felt intimidated or afraid of police. But I am wary now. I have lost something--my faith that if I ever needed the police that I could unconditionally count on them.

I care for my daughter who has a mental health condition. There have been times in the past where I have been concerned for her safety and thought about calling police but thankfully I have been able to resolve the issues before needing to reach out. I would now think long and hard before I ever asked police for help when dealing with a mental health crisis. John's psychologist reached out to the police out of fear for John's safety. Makes me wonder how many psychologists will now think twice before calling police and what impact this will have on people in need.

The thought of compensation for John is appreciated. I just hope any successful action John may achieve helps to restore his dignity and eases his hurt.

Thanks for talking with me. It really helps--more than you know.

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

blondguy — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 08:59:40 GMT

Hi Summer Rose

Thankyou for bring up what John had gone through with Victoria Police. The officers concerned crossed the line (allegedly) where ethics and common decency were concerned through this awful video feed

Compensation is a fair point but dollars cant heal any scars (PTSD) from what he has been through

The best way to communicate directly is email VicPol on ;

Police Conduct Unit
GPO Box 913
Melbourne Vic 3001
E-mail: Police Compliments and Complaints

The link above isnt a 'live' link but it is in the VicPol website as a live link

The person responsible for the officers conduct is;

Chief Commissioner
Graham Ashton AM

The Officers have had 'training' to deal with a person that is suffering from mental illness apparently

Force Command are ultimately responsible for this incident. The officers concerned would be feeling some serious pain and anguish by now Summer Rose...not that will help John of course

My kind thoughts

Paul

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

Summer Rose — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 10:55:32 GMT

Thank you, Paul. Very kind indeed.

I will write to the Chief Commissioner. He is a regular on the Jon Fein ABC morning program (ABC radio) and I was planning to call on the open line. But that's hit and miss.

I did speak with my local State MP today. I got a fair hearing and received empathy and promises of better days to come. Apparently I was not the only person to have raised the issue--and that made me smile. There is hope.

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

monkey_magic — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 11:22:12 GMT

Unfortunately I've experienced the other side of the coin and police have made things worse for me instead of better. There's a lot I could go into like the time they told the man I was living with what I said about him jeopardizing my safety because I hadn't moved out yet. The time they surrounded me trying to make me confess to lighting a fire I didn't light, the time I was wrongly convicted of unlawful entering...the time an officer wasted my time thinking I was doing something wrong because he was suspicious, the time I was drug searched on the side of the road feeling exploited. Police have mental health issues too.

I have also had great experiences with them. But I've heard of many stories of them being wrong too.

Oh that's right I think this was about John.

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

monkey_magic — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 11:47:42 GMT

Actually thank you Summer Rose you're inspiring.

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

Summer Rose — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 13:07:05 GMT

Hey Monkey Magic

I am so sorry to hear that you have been poorly treated by police as well. You have certainly suffered; my heart goes out to you.

It seems I have been living in the bubble of my quiet suburb with my eyes closed. They're open now.

I stand with you, monkey magic. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers x

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

monkey_magic — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 13:23:22 GMT

Thank you......

U just gave me something to aspire to, because I didn't complain....I let things slide sometimes.

This thread moved me to tears. Remembering some things that have happened to others as well. I get told a lot of stories.

The bubble of your quiet suburb sounds like the place I'd like to be.....

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

Summer Rose — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 10:12:59 GMT

Hello all

I want to let you know that today I received a response from the Police Commissioner's office to my letter outlining my concerns about the "John" incident.

I was advised that police members are expected to perform their duties in a manner that is "procedurally just and fair and treats all persons with dignity and respect" and because of that expectation disciplinary proceedings have been initiated against members involved in the incident with John. The letter went on to say that action is being taken to improve outcomes for communities who are over-represented in police contact, and that includes people experiencing mental health issues.

I had suggested to the Police Commissioner that he consider introducing talks from bb speakers--a person experiencing a mental health condition and a carer--as a mandatory training requirement. There was no commitment to do this expressed in the letter, except to say that training has been reformed. I am choosing to hope that I may have planted a seed and perhaps the suggestion will be given serious consideration in future.

Thank you all for supporting me and giving me the confidence to speak up. If nothing else, the Commissioner knows that ordinary people are watching and demanding better from their police force.

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

blondguy — Fri, 27 Apr 2018 12:05:59 GMT

Hi Summer Rose

This is seriously good news no matter who actually responded to your letter. Now its not an 'alleged' incident with the officers concerned!

I did hear that 'some' of the officers have been suspended as a result of their woeful conduct

Thankyou heaps for letting us know that you actually had a response and for planting the seed

Its a shame that our Chief Commissioner of Police (Graham Ashton AM) cant respond himself (not to all inquiries of course but to an important letter like you sent)

Nice1 Summer Rose

My kind thoughts always

Paul

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

Summer Rose — Fri, 27 Apr 2018 12:11:51 GMT

Hi Paul

The response was signed off by a Deputy Commissioner. So very grateful to you for providing all the contact details and address. You are a gem!

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

blondguy — Fri, 27 Apr 2018 12:31:28 GMT

You cant do any better than that Summer Rose...Good on Vicpol and a deputy commissioner to have answered your letter....Thats even better 🙂

You Rock Summer Rose!

Paul

topic I stand with John, do you? *Trigger Warning - Assault* in PTSD and trauma

I stand with John, do you? *Trigger Warning - Assault*

I stand with John, do you? *Trigger Warning - Assault*

I stand with John, do you? *Trigger Warning - Assault*

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I stand with John, do you? *Trigger Warning - Assault*

I stand with John, do you? *Trigger Warning - Assault*

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I stand with John, do you? *Trigger Warning - Assault*

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I stand with John, do you? *Trigger Warning - Assault*

I stand with John, do you? *Trigger Warning - Assault*

I stand with John, do you? *Trigger Warning - Assault*

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I stand with John, do you? *Trigger Warning - Assault*

I stand with John, do you? *Trigger Warning - Assault*

topic I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault in PTSD and trauma

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

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I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

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I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault

I stand with John, do you? Trigger Warning - Assault