topic Depression: dog vs black dog in Depression

Depression: dog vs black dog

Sea-n-sky — Sat, 30 Aug 2014 03:37:12 GMT

Some guy elsewhere in this forum, asked the question "How would we describe depression if it were a physical creature.

What a sensible question to ask.

The guy who asked, must be an intelligent guy, a guy with a future of success.

I can answer that question, but would first like to remind everyone that many famous

and successfull persons have experienced depression. (Burton and Taylor come to mind)

Indeed it seems likely that depression is a precursor to success, even to victory, in most dramatical terms.

The late Winston Churchill himself said he had been afflicted by deep depression for much of his life.

He called it Blackdog.

Therefore I will call it that too, when considering it as the "physical creature". Most human beings can relate to the dog, and will recognise the animal as being of varying temperament according to breed. The wolf is a dog, as is the dingo. Likewise the poodle, the pekinese and the labrador.

On the one hand, we have the wild feral destructive canine, whilst on the other we have the loveable domesticated pet.

Clearly therefore, depression can be represented by the dog.(Blackdog).

It is, all dogs, merged into one.

The loveable domesticated pet today, and a destructive feral tomorrow.

If you own a dog, you train it. If you do not do that it will not become the loveable domestic pet you may desire. It may become something different entirely. It will likely become a menace, in fact.

The first step in training the animal is to treat it in precisely the same way as you would like it to treat you.

That way, the dog will become your friend - and yes, blackdog can be that too.

In training your dog, you feed it morsels of reward, treats or titbits if you like, when it behaves/responds as you would like it to.

Blackdog is no different.

Returning to Winston Churchill, Did he win World War II ? No of course not, but he was a leader and inspirer amongst allies, perhaps guided by Blackdog, the friend.

Blackdog, is no longer my demon.

I might be again one day, and if it is, I'll just remove the cause, if I can.

My pain is now greatly reduced, because of that. I even jog a bit now, (when walking).

I have to, in order, to keep up with a friendly blackdog, which is running ahead of me. (metaphorically speaking)

If it can be true in my case, Why not yours ?

Cheers,

Sea-n-sky.

Depression: dog vs black dog

gmc — Sat, 30 Aug 2014 08:25:48 GMT

Hello Sea-n-sky,

It may be true about the blackdog. I can relate more to something that floods me, not from a certain point, but something that was there from before I can remember, that had grown without me controlling it or knowing about its existence. It's a wild something with it own life that it's confusing, because it's actually me. I have two different beings in myself without being two, but one that is no different from the other. And they are not separate, they are the same. Am I making myself understood?

I find it, depression, as a richness inside, difficult to change it, to make it something good. I think it's the supreme demon, a complex state of ourselves, that the light must be brave and intelligent enough to overcome and lead. Maybe not always, because the battle is long, but when we need it. And after each one of us and our possibilities, we take what we need from it. It eats our resources, I eat her intellectual. Who know's who's winning? I know it's a change that I sometimes benefit from, sometimes it just kills me, but I know that what I have to do is trick it, 'cause I'm the lead, I've been "there" since before it and I will be the winner :).

Depression: dog vs black dog

Sea-n-sky — Sat, 30 Aug 2014 11:52:15 GMT

Hi gmc,

Thanks for contributing to the string.

At this stage, I am only partially understanding you, which is better than no understanding at all.

It seems your depression is somewhat different to the type I have experienced although I can partially relate to some of the matters you refer to.

For example you mention a " richness inside you" which is difficult to change.

In more recent times the "richness" or feeling inside me has taken the form of fairly severe physical pain, known to be a normal side effect of one of the medications I have been taking for several years. The medication has been required to reduce or minimise the risk of stroke or heart attack. In that respect it has been largely effective, but not completely. The cost to me of that effectiveness has been pain, fortunately now much reduced to tolerable levels.

I thought it was just pain, as I only thought of it that way, just accepting it as being a common side effect of the medication I required to minimise the risks described. I did not think of it at all in terms of depression until I came on this web site very recently, and someone pointed out that pain is a cause of depression. In my case it was several years of physical pain - that was the "physical creature" in my case which I now easily identify as blackdog, as a result of joining this web site, and discussing the matter with others.

Having said that, there are things you have mentioned which I find most interesting as I at least partially recognise them but have some difficulty understanding at this time. More thought is required at my end, which I shall do, and hopefully get back to you later.

In the interim thanks for your response. I shall give your comments some serious thought, and perhaps someone else may join the thread with a clearer understanding of your breed of blackdog, which I can recognise, in part only. The "flooding" aspect you mentioned is partially relevant to me, (occassionaly distressing) but in a strictly physical sense, as opposed to an emotional or psychological one, as it seems to be in your case.

Cheers for now,

Sea-n-sky.

Depression: dog vs black dog

gmc — Sun, 31 Aug 2014 07:39:24 GMT

Hello Sea-n-sky,

It may be a different type for me too, but the pain I feel is there too, it's just disguised otherwise. And the "flooding" may be a result of anxiety. I am thinking a bit clearer now that I am not leaving my thoughts flow and just write :).

The pain is present, I feel it now that I sometimes get in a bad mood or I am shocked of something, but with medication I don't feel it that badly and it doesn't affect me deeply psychologically. I know I was exposed to a trigger and that is the effect. I may need an increase of dosage... I shall talk to the psychiatrist.

The thing is I embrace it, the pain, as part of myself, but at the same time I refuse that it dominated me. It's not who I am, although it influences my state of being. I know I have to work more on this, but is how I feel for now.

Neil would be needed here to talk about the blackdog. Maybe he'll join.

Cheers,

gmc

Depression: dog vs black dog

Sea-n-sky — Sun, 31 Aug 2014 09:13:47 GMT

Hi again gmc,

O.K. thanks for that info.

I'm still a bit confused as it sure seems my problems have been different to yours. My blackdog was a completely different breed to yours, I suspect.

You mention your pain and say it is disguised. You also advise that you embrace it.

Are you able to describe that pain, is it physical or emotional ? If physical, can you enlighten us with respect to precisely where on your body you feel it.

You also mention that you know you were exposed to a trigger. Are you able to tell us what that trigger was, and when you were exposed to it.

I note you also say that you do not let the pain dominate you. Well I am no psychiatrist nor psychologist, but it seems pretty obvious to me that you do at least have some control over it, and that alone must surely be a positive thing. Something to work on for sure.

Anyhow, I sure reckon that's a real good idea you have about talking to your psychiatrist about it.

I hope you do that soon. The sooner the better - I suggest.

Don't forget to keep smiling if you can, after all, you have already confirmed you have some degree of control over it - and that's really great. You just have to improve on that now.

It seems to me that should be very achievable with the help of your psychiatrist.

Train that "blackdog" - control it, and soon it will be more like a friend, than some seriously menacing beast.

I Hope the foregoing is of help.

Good luck.

Rgds,

Sea-n-sky

Depression: dog vs black dog

gmc — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 10:39:37 GMT

Hello Sea-n-sky,

I think too that my blackdog is a different breed that yours :). But my pain is in my chest and my head is paralized. And I do not respond well to the stress of feeling guilty. This is more about my anxiety.

Hope for the best for you too,

gmc

Depression: dog vs black dog

Gopal — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 11:55:29 GMT

I have named my depression black snake. Whenever i feel low and depressed I tel myself, the black snake is here, and I do something about it. Today since morning I was feeling a little low, but by concentrating on work, I am feeling much relaxed now. I know that once I get out from work, it will again start working on me. Then I have to concentrate on the road and people around me to divert my mood.

Depression: dog vs black dog

Sea-n-sky — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 22:24:32 GMT

Hi gmc,

Thank you for posting again.
Each time that you do I get a clearer picture of what you are going through.
Some time ago you said something like you've been there before and that you shall win.
Do you remember saying that or something close to it.
I am sure you are right - you shall become better again.
You have just said that your brain is paralysed and that the pain is all in your chest.
Those are your thoughts.
I say again, Those are your thoughts, and no more.
Please recognise that, - as it is important you do.
Although those are your thoughts at this time, That does not mean they are you.
1.The paralysed brain you refer to is what you feel/think at this time.
2.The pain in the chest that you feel, that is the heartbreak that goes with the disease.
3.You mention guilt also, and finding it difficult to cope with the stress of that guilt.
In looking at what you are saying, it seems to me that you may actually be dealing with two blackdogs.
One of them may be of the same breed as mine was, but the other one is different. The two dogs are running as a pack together, which perhaps makes them a bit more difficult to deal with, than were it just one dog alone.
Both of them have to be trained and be tamed.
On the positive, and perhaps most exciting side, is that once that taming/training is completed, then you will have two new friends, not just one.
Both blackdogs will be happy, and equally as important, so will you.
You said you would discuss your medications dosage again with your psychiatrist.
That's great and I hope you will do so quite soon as I feel sure you are now on the journey to successful recovery.
Please also note, I am feeling even better than I was yesterday, and the day before,
because I can see you are on the right track, that you are trying, and you want to recover, which is great.

Your brain is not actually paralysed, it just feels that way. Your brain is in fact very active, it is sending out signals of distress. It is doing that through your fingers, into your keyboard and on to my computer screen. I acknowledge those signals. More help is available through your psychiatrist and the telephone lines at BB and or Lifeline, - should you require to talk to someone to enhance or consolidate what we seem to be achieving in text.

You are communicating - which is great.

Best wishes,

Sea-n-sky

Depression: dog vs black dog

gmc — Tue, 02 Sep 2014 06:55:08 GMT

Hello Sea-n-sky and thank you for your words.

I did discuss with my psychiatrist and I got a slight increase of dosage. Maybe I can get calmed down those two blackdogs, as you say :).

I don't know what else to reply, but thanks :). I am very pleased by your answer.

Depression: dog vs black dog

Sea-n-sky — Tue, 02 Sep 2014 12:57:59 GMT

Hi again gmc,

Well that's a relief.

Lets see how it goes from now on.

If you are pleased, as you say, then that indicates you are making some progress, assuming you mean that pleased is happier than you were.

I sure hope so. 🙂

Cheers.

Depression: dog vs black dog

Sea-n-sky — Tue, 02 Sep 2014 13:11:47 GMT

Hi Gopal,

Your strategy sounds a good one to me.

If it works for you, then it's fine.

Concentrating on those people around you ?

Are you also inter-reacting with them, smiling and talking to them, that sort of thing.

Project a bright personality if you can. If you can cheer them up, it will also rub off on you and you'll feel much better, for sure. Hopefully you'll also manage a laugh.

Cheers.

Depression: dog vs black dog

Gopal — Wed, 03 Sep 2014 04:30:11 GMT

Hi Sea-n-sky,

The strategy is working for me to some extent. The main problem being the consistency. You I will tell you something secret, I have always been a full of life person, I have seen ups and downs in my life, I have never let them take over me as I always believed in living the life. The major problem which I think I am facing is GUILT. I am feeling extremly guilty, But even though I completely understand that the kind of situation and the outcome of it, for which I am feeling guilty, I was completely helpless in that situation. The person who was associated with me in that situation, she is a good talker and she made her way I think from that by holding me responsible, and I in order to give her a way to live, did such things which will help her to hate me. I think I did the right thing, but yet this guilt thing, it is becoming a bar of my life.

if you guys kindly help me out as to how to tackle the guiltt feeling part then I would really be great ful.

Thanks

Gopal

Depression: dog vs black dog

Sea-n-sky — Wed, 03 Sep 2014 07:59:11 GMT

Hi Gopal,

Guilt complex:-

I Can't help you with that one, although I did read somewhere that sometimes a guilt complex is used as a strategy by opposing parties.

I think you have to consult a priest, clergyman, Imam or somebody like that, about that one. It would probably be best to discuss it with your GP or psychiatrist as well.

In the interim, I would not let it worry you too much, nor loose any sleep over it.

You could be playing right into the hands of someone with malicious intent in their mind, - with you being the target of such malicious intent. Maybe not though.

Anyhow, if you think guilt is your problem then you have to face up to it one way or the other. It won't go away if you don't, - I suspect.

You'd be able to answer that one better than anyone else, I would think.

However,

Best of luck.

Sea-n-sky.

Depression: dog vs black dog

Neil_1 — Wed, 03 Sep 2014 23:12:19 GMT

Dear all

Thanx Sea ‘n Sky for creating this thread/string. It’s getting quite populated and that’s always a good thing. So much to chat about here – I’ll try my best to raise some matters as I see them.

First, Gopal – thanx for sharing and I agree with you, that guilt can play a massive part with our depressive state. What is guilt for one person may not be for another person. I’m not quite reading what exactly your guilt is though – it seems something to do with another person – was it a relationship that turned bad and are you blaming yourself for that??

I agree with Sea ‘n Sky – that getting to a GP and hopefully a referral to an appropriate psyche/counsellor in the first instance would be a very good way of commencing on working on this guilt.

I too suffer from guilt – in not saving my brother in a drowning accident in a river, years and years ago. It haunts me to this day and will forever. Unfortunately I’ve had no luck in any counselling/psyche (cologist and chiatrist) appointments in the past. No one blames me for what happened, and that’s kind of cool. But then no-one else was there (bar my fiancé at the time). But I made all the wrong decisions and I paid the ultimate price. But I won’t go on about that at this time.

Is there any way Gopal, that you could address the situation with this other person and perhaps bit by small bit, talk through it and work towards some kind of positive outcome – for both you and her?? Just a thought, but I’d be interested in your answer.

Dear gmc

With regard to the pain in your chest – may I ask, do you feel it a real pain – or do you feel it like there’s a coiled spring inside your chest; a large coiled spring that continues to get tighter and tighter and you feel like you just want to explode in some way. But of course that doesn’t happen – humans aren’t accustomed to combusting internally – which is a good thing I think. 🙂

There’s so much more I want to write, but I think my characters are running out.

Will love to hear back from you all on this.

Great topic.

Neil

Depression: dog vs black dog

CMF — Thu, 04 Sep 2014 03:59:07 GMT

Hi all,

Yes, great topic. I have guilt. guilt over hurting someone by making them believe something terrible which wasn't true all because they insisted it was true and I was forced to admit to something that I didn't do because I couldn't handle defending my self anymore so I gave up. I have guilt over not tasking our little daughter to see her grandmother because she too blamed me for things that were not correct. Mother and son like two peas in a pod. so yes I'm depressed again. depressed because his cousins and partner are having a baby and his cousin stuck by her didn't abandon her because he freaked out, she didn't cop rubbish form his mum like I did. I went to my favourite coffee shop today. I was so sad to have to leave I could have sat there all day chatting to the staff and having a good laugh as we do. they don't hurt me they make me feel special we just click. I wish I could have stayed longer as soon as I left the black dog tracked me down and followed me home.

Depression: dog vs black dog

Gopal — Thu, 04 Sep 2014 07:59:16 GMT

Hi neil1, first of all I would like to thank you for the care you showed like every body in this forum, another thanks to all of them. Frankly, I dont know where to start, as you can understand that my thinking abilities in a clear pattern is seriously heart and I cant arrange my thoughts any more. Its just come and go inside my head, and you have to bear with that. Let mt go straight to the main part. Guilt. Well I honestly have a lot of things to regret and to feel guilt. The major one i think 7 years back, my father having chest pain one morning and he called me up to bring a doctor, I couldnt, in time, and he left us. I was not with him when he passed away. I feel guilty for letting my girlfriend down, but to be honest I was completely helpless at the time and she consistently blamed me for the entire thing, while she made out a way for herself to clean her conscience. I feel guilty for a lots of decision which I made during the course of life and I feel guilty for letting myself down. I wanted to be a successful person and wanted a good life, but somewhere I lost that spirit completely and now when I see myself in the passage of ordinary life style with no sense of high ambition and determination, I blame myself and also feel guilty for not being able to keep myself in the track. I blame myself for almost everything, even for wrongdoing of others make me miserable and i feel guilty. I feel guilty for letting my life sliped through my fingers while I was at some other things. I feel guilty for my past decisions which did not worked out for me. But the funny fact is, I have made lots of good decesions also in my life but I cant recognize them now. You see, all my thoughts are jumping up and I can't put them together, I think I need a break and breath some air now. until next time, give me whatever you think of me....by reading the above... thanks! Gopal

Depression: dog vs black dog

Sea-n-sky — Thu, 04 Sep 2014 08:42:25 GMT

Hi again C.M.F.

It seems you have found one great outlet - that coffee shop.

Keep going back there, and maybe some other places as well.

It's obviously doing you good.

Cheers,

Sea-n-sky.

Depression: dog vs black dog

CMF — Thu, 04 Sep 2014 11:30:37 GMT

Yep till something ruins it

Depression: dog vs black dog

Sea-n-sky — Thu, 04 Sep 2014 23:09:18 GMT

Hi CMF,

"Something" will only ruin it if you let it.

So don't.

Sea-n-sky.

Depression: dog vs black dog

CMF — Fri, 05 Sep 2014 03:01:18 GMT

Hi Sea-n-sky,

Yeah you're right but there is someone in my life who I believe is 'jinxed'. whenever he has anything to do with anything they seem to go wrong, its just unbelievable if I told you all of them you wouldn't believe it, it freaks me out, but it is impossible not to have him in my life. actually its funny because that coffee shop is 'mine' I probably wouldn't go there with him. its my little retreat where I can feel happy. I laugh every time I am there because someone will make a joke with me or something will happen that I find funny and then we all laugh about it. Yeah, I probably wouldn't go with him because he would find something negative about it or make a comment about the guys that work there that they are no good blah blah blah. It's 'my' little coffee shop.