topic Re: Depression and negative affirmations in Depression

Depression and negative affirmations

passingthrough — Thu, 12 Dec 2024 04:57:28 GMT

Hi all,

I'm not sure how to use this forum to get help, and feel that I have nothing to offer fellow participants, but I need to try something at this time.

I'm 34M, probably somewhat autistic (but undiagnosed) and been struggling with what I roughly call depression. I'm currently taking SNRI antidepressants and attending therapy. Other than that it's hard to say what's going on with any clarity.

I regularly tell myself these things, usually in threes and always including the last two:

“I can’t do anything right”
“I can’t do it”

"I can't do anything"
“I hate myself”
“I’m a loser”
“I deserve to die”

I believe that this is causing me to feel worse, and creates negative feedback loops. I just want to know if anyone has any suggestions for how to either stop or ignore this behaviour. I've tried contradicting it ("I'm doing my best, and I deserve to be happy") and tried logically dismantling it ("Loser? I didn't realise this was a competition", "Deserve to die? Everyone dies!") but so far nothing has really worked. It's mainly triggered by rejection or criticism, either by my partner or me, for example criticism of my work performance or behaviour. I've talked to my therapist about it, but we haven't really discussed any strategies.

I'm happy to read other threads, just don't know where to start. Thanks.

Re: Depression and negative affirmations

therising — Thu, 12 Dec 2024 18:37:23 GMT

Hi passingthrough

I feel for you so much as you struggle with one of the worst aspects of depression, inner dialogue. Inner dialogue can definitely feel soul destroying, stressful and/or depressing at times, that's for sure.

While what works for everyone is different, I've found what tends to make the most difference to me is analysing the hell out of everything. This way, there's a little more heaven (aka 'sense of peace') that can be found through certain revelations. Analysing the hell out of everything is a way of getting to the truth. The questions can become 'Why can't I do anything right?', 'Why can't I do it?', all the way through to 'Why do I deserve to no longer be on this earth?'. Btw, with one single question it can take a heck of a lot of analysis and further questioning to reach the right conclusion. While a psychologist may be an expert in doing this, picking something apart, we can also do it on our own. So, 'Why can't I do anything right? Who or what led me to this conclusion? Who showed me how to meet the challenges I face? Who guided me in the way of better understanding them and mastering them? Who encouraged me to try, try and try again, with courage, until I could master these challenges? On the other hand, who fills me with self doubt? Do I have the right kind of focus in order to complete these tasks? Do I have an issue with focus, more than anything? Who inspired or inspires me? Are some of these tasks just not me? Is it not in my nature to be a master at them? Are they other people's thing/field of expertise? What am I naturally good at?' and on and on it goes. So, all this relating to just one statement, 'I can't do anything right'. I imagine there are a number of things you can do right, a number of challenges you do rise to and master. While my 19yo son manages being at the high functioning end of the autism spectrum, there are some things he definitely struggles with (focus included) but at the same time he has some truly mind blowing capabilities that not everyone has.

Something to consider is that 'computer' or 'processor' up there in our head, our brain. How does it tick? Like any computer, it relies on hardware and software. How our brain is built physically, relates to the hardware. The software more so relates to the mental programs. Some programs involve belief systems. Others involve downloads such as math, language and all that other stuff we learned at school. Others can involve natural capabilities we came to life with. Btw, it pays to identify the 'viruses' (terrible destructive belief systems others have put into our head) and get rid of those viruses. Being organic creatures, we also rely heavily on chemistry (dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, B12, iron, estrogen, testosterone and all that kind of stuff).

There is just so much to come to know and understand about our self, so much. As a gal who's fascinated by how I work on a physical level, mental level and natural or soulful level, I've learned to say over the years 'I am fascinated and amazed when it comes to who I am and how I work'. This has come to replace the statement 'I hate myself'.

Re: Depression and negative affirmations

Eagle Ray — Fri, 13 Dec 2024 07:30:30 GMT

Hi passingthrough (and wave to the rising),

Those statements you say to yourself are things I’ve said to myself in one version or another over many years. For me, they were often more feelings of low worth that didn’t necessarily have language, but I felt those things if that makes sense. I can try to explain approaches that have helped me, but just take it on board only if it resonates for you.

In very recent years I’ve come to understand that these thoughts/feelings come from a part of me, not the whole of me. I’ve learned about an approach called Internal Family Systems that’s sometimes used in psychology to understand parts of self. If a certain part became dissociated at some point (often due to a life stress, childhood experiences etc) it can take on a life of its own and feels very involuntary. It becomes kind of autonomous and we can start to believe this part is the whole of us when it’s only a part. The goal in Internal Family Systems is to understand why that part became split off and started acting as it did. Then it’s a case of being really kind to that part and integrating it back into the whole. As the integration progressively happens, the now cared for part is far less prone to attack the core self. I’m certainly experiencing this shift in myself now. My inner critic still emerges at times but I notice it quickly now and become kinder to myself instead. Like you, I found just trying to replace negative affirmations with positive affirmations didn’t work. I had to develop an inner system of self care and as that grows I am far less hard on myself. This process has involved feeling that care emotionally in my body, not just replacing negative thoughts with positive thoughts, if that makes sense?

Working with a good psychologist has helped in this regard as she has been a compassionate witness for things I’ve been through. I had complex trauma in childhood which was the major contributing factor to my feelings of shame, inadequacy and self-criticism. It’s very powerful when someone else witnesses us in a kind and really present way. It is often what then kicks our own self-care capacity into action.

I’ve suspected for a long time that I’m also on the autism spectrum and also very likely have adhd at the milder end. I think having such traits can also leave us feeling inadequate at times as we may process things differently from others and feel like we don’t fit into society in certain ways. I’m learning to value the particular ways my brain works and realise there are some real advantages as well as challenges with what is often termed as being neurodiverse. I think if we encounter others like ourselves too that can really help as we feel less alone in who we are and that we can have a sense of belonging with similar others.

Those are just some thoughts and my own experiences. I’m not sure if they’re helpful but I really wish you the best and hope you can have some further discussions with your therapist that help you to process things. A friend who has complex ptsd like myself, often says we are completely ok as we are in this moment now. It’s only our conditioning that did something along the way that contorted our sense of self. He has really helped me towards full self-acceptance, something he is finding himself now after years of struggle. So it is possible to change how we feel about ourselves. I still have vulnerabilities but I can tend to them with kindness and support myself now. I’m happy to chat anytime.

Kind regards,

Eagle Ray

Re: Depression and negative affirmations

passingthrough — Fri, 13 Dec 2024 10:45:48 GMT

Hi therising,

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post and sharing the questioning technique that has helped you. It's certainly helpful to also read so many examples.

My hopes aren't very high this kind of analysis would be particularly effective, but I'll try to keep it in mind. In some cases the things I'm saying don't have any recent basis, they're things I've been saying since 2016. I can't remember if there was a break in the middle somewhere or where they came from at that time. They're also kind of beliefs, in that I fit whatever is happening to me at the time into the framework of these statements.

More relevant maybe is that I don't know the answers to most of the questions you wrote or there are no answers. I know they're only meant to be examples, but these are the kind of things I've talked about with therapists and probably learned a fair amount but not been able to change anything so far.

I'm particularly interested in your comments about focus, I didn't mention that in my post at all but it is something that I feel I'm struggling with currently and it's making work very difficult. I don't think it's an inherent weakness though. In the before times I was able to focus a lot better, for example when I was studying at University. For example I used to really enjoy taking exams, which I don't think would be true of someone with problems focusing. Was that something you picked up, or just another example?

Thanks again for your reply, I'm very grateful.

Re: Depression and negative affirmations

passingthrough — Fri, 13 Dec 2024 11:08:29 GMT

Hi Eagle Ray,

Thanks for your reply, you've touched on a lot of things that are familiar to me.

In my last session I did start to identify things that came from my "thinking self" and from what I called my "unthinking self". I don't know if this a "feeling self", "impulsive self", or a combination of other things (sexual self maybe) and It's clear that these specific phrases are coming from an unthinking place.

The IFS framework sounds interesting. I don't really identify as a trauma survivor, I think I had a normal and safe (privileged?) upbringing and don't remember anything bad happening. That said I does seem possible that I developed multiple modes of behaviour in childhood, both as a result of autistic masking and maybe from hiding part of my sexuality, so this could explain the presence of a dissociated part like you describe.

I'm trying to engage with community around mental health, autism and sexuality, similarly to how you describe, and while I think it's helpful it's also been terrifying. I feel as though my afflictions are so much milder than many people in these communities, but yet as small as they are I have no way of coping with them and they've caused me problems for so long. At other times I see people who have similar circumstances to me and have been able to cope, and I feel awful for not being able to make more of my life.

I've gone all over the place sorry, but I really want to thank you for taking the time to write that reply.

Re: Depression and negative affirmations

therising — Fri, 13 Dec 2024 16:43:25 GMT

Hi passingthrough (and a wave back at you Eagle Ray🖐🙂)

With a lack of focus being an example and one of the challenges my son faces, it's more a side effect of being too full of wonder, too full of curiosity and being able to tap into his imagination way too easily. He is one of the most wonderful, most curious and most imaginative people I know. While some folk may take 10 minutes or so of deep breathing and relaxation techniques before entering into a highly imaginative guided meditation, my son can relax within a split second and be in that imagined place. He's an expert daydreamer. This is an incredible ability that posed a lot of problems at school in year 12. On the other hand, outside of school, someone could be facing a major challenge in life and through his imagination he will see not only see the underlying issues they're facing but also the way forward for them. So, you could say he's a natural born seer. He was like this even as a little kid.

Being able to tap into a certain part of our self in the blink of an eye is an ability or a strength until it starts to create a sense of imbalance, a sense of suffering or other challenges. Then it's an ability that creates problems. With you mentioning the thinking self, the unthinking self, the feeling self and impulsive self, there can also be a wonderful aspect of self which can lead us to wonder, a curious aspect of who we care which can lead us to answers through a sense of curiosity and the highly imaginative aspect of who we are which can lead us to imagine both good and bad. We can consciously tap into any part of our self at any given time or some aspect can be triggered to come to life, whether we like it or not. This is what I've found for myself, personally. Seeing practice makes perfect, as they say, if I'm in the habit of practicing tapping into some problematic part of myself, I'm going to have problems. And the more often I'm in the practice of channeling this part of myself the stronger it gets with practice. In some cases the challenge becomes about practicing bringing a new part of myself to life or resurrecting a familiar and more reliable part of me. Yep, easier said than done at times.

Another way of looking at this is...if you can imagine an old style wagon wheel, with the hub being your core sense of self, all the spokes stem from your core sense of self. Each spoke is an aspect of you, an aspect you can tap into at any given time. The whole of who you are is the entire wheel. It's not just the hub and not just the spokes, it's everything. It's important to have a core sense of self that is in charge of how and when we consciously tap into the many facets or spokes. If we want to bring the adventurer in us to life, we have to know how to do it, how to trigger or channel it. If we want to constructively bring the feeler in us to life, we have to know what tends to conjure it. If we want to bring the sage in us to life, we may have to know how to go into our imagination and find the sage and have a chat with it. And if we want to bring the non thinking intuitive aspect in us to life, we'll have to know how to not think (for a start). If there are dozens of different facets or aspects to us, one of life's challenges may be to discover and better understand them all.

Re: Depression and negative affirmations

passingthrough — Sat, 14 Dec 2024 01:12:41 GMT

Hi therising,

Thanks again for your reply and providing me with your perspective - there are certainly some new ideas there although I feel a bit overwhelmed so I'll have to re read it a few times in the coming weeks.

I hope your son is doing ok, they sounds like a wonderful person. It's great that you're able to appreciate their strengths, I don't think anyone has ever been able to tell me what mine are in quite that way.

Re: Depression and negative affirmations

Eagle Ray — Sat, 14 Dec 2024 01:13:18 GMT

Hi passingthrough and therising,

Passingthrough, it is possible that what you understand as your “non-thinking self” is something that has kind of been dissociated, especially if you have been masking autistic traits and parts of your sexuality. I think if we cannot freely express parts of ourselves, and particularly if we feel any shame when growing up in association with those parts, they can kind of split off somewhat and exist in a shadow space. Our more consciously “thinking self” may be getting on with life while blocking them, but then they can have other ways of surfacing and can feel autonomous because they’re not fully integrated parts.

I think feeling you have to mask any part of yourself because it feels necessary to feel safe at the time, can produce some trauma-like effects such as dissociation, even if there hasn’t been what sometimes get called Big T trauma events. One thing my mother did was try to ignore the fact I was a girl. She only gave me boys clothes to wear for a long time and anything feminine given to me by relatives was put in a bag in her cupboard and I wasn’t allowed access to them, except on very rare (like 3 or 4 times) occasions such as going to a cousin’s wedding. People would mistake me for a boy in public and she’d never correct them. I wanted to be seen as a girl as that was who I understood I was, but for reasons I still don’t fully understand my mother made me feel shame for being female. To this day I struggle still somewhat with that part of my identity because I can feel incredibly awkward with my femininity even though I wish it was easy for me to express. I know this can have a source of depression embedded in it.

So I do wonder whether if you feel you have had to mask parts of yourself if it is tied up with feelings of shame and also the depression symptoms you’ve had? I think not being able to freely be yourself can cause the parts that are uncomfortable to freeze and dissociate. My experience has been that depression connects with freezing in the nervous system, when it feels like we can’t go forwards or backwards with something and just have to lock it down inside of us instead. But it can also get to a stage where the part wants expression, setting up a bit of an internal conflict. I often find the greatest emotional turmoil happens just before a breakthrough. This could be what the rising describes as a part coming to life.

Although I’m familiar with IFS my psychologist and myself have not so much been actively using it, but more it has manifested in the course of therapy. The most useful work I’ve done with her has been somatic work, specifically the approach called Somatic Experiencing, where we’ve processed past traumatic events. But what has facilitated an IFS-type process along the way has been having someone witness and be with me through the feelings that were both generated and suppressed in the past. She has really helped me to sense and feel into my own body. This has given me the tools to sit and be with my own feelings with kindness instead of blocking them. This is then how dissociated parts in me have begun to integrate. So for me I’ve found somatic work has been how I have begun to heal the alienated and traumatised parts. I think any kind of work with a therapist that involves them being a compassionate witness can help facilitate this kind of healing. It’s a tender process but rewarding. As integration of parts starts to happen the psyche and body (feeling self) start to organically feel more whole again.

I can relate to what you say about trying to connect with communities. I went to two autism Meetup groups in 2015/2016. I struggled to feel like I deserved to be there. I did meet people who were similar to me though and also some who were very different. Interestingly one of my closest friends told me recently she thinks she’s on the spectrum and it made sense as we get on so easily and understand how each other works to a large degree. I think as you start to feel more integrated within yourself it will probably feel less scary connecting with others like you. I’m also learning not to feel bad about the parts of myself with autistic and adhd traits and embrace them instead. But it takes time and I understand it can feel quite difficult at first. Be kind to yourself and also try not minimise your struggles relative to others. I did that for a long time and my psychologist has said to me there’s no comparison with others, it’s our own unique journey.

Sorry for such a long post! Take care,

Re: Depression and negative affirmations

yggdrasil — Sat, 14 Dec 2024 07:52:28 GMT

Hi passingthrough,

Welcome to these forums! Your experiences sound very, very similar to my own.

The things that worked for me were

Trying to create a maximally stable home life, routine etc.
A therapy approach called "schema therapy". Schema is like a supercharged version of CBT; it addresses the connections between challenging thoughts, feelings and behaviours. Schema involves thinking deeply about what need or survival benefit these dysfunctional patterns may have once served, reflecting on whether they're still well-calibrated, and if not gradually changing them. It becomes about catching the "early warning signs", e.g. the "I can't do anything right" statement above, before things spiral.
Challenging physical activity. For me this was skateboarding. The danger element forces you out of negative spirals... You have to concentrate on just skating or you get hurt! I think martial arts, acrobatics, footy etc also good for this.
Exploring spiritual connections with others. This can be through religion, charity work etc.
Taking things in very tiny steps, otherwise it's all too hard. E.g. if getting out of bed is too hard, just sitting up for a while, etc.

Hope you're going ok this weekend, and best of luck with your recovery!

yggdrasil

Re: Depression and negative affirmations

passingthrough — Mon, 16 Dec 2024 09:08:09 GMT

Hi ER,

Thank you for sharing so much of that with me, absolutely no need to apologise. I feel like giving you a hug when I read the part about your mother dressing you like that (I'm not much of a hugger in reality, but it's easy to be all talk online). Despite what you wrote about not comparing situations I can't help but think that was so much more damaging than anything that could have happened to me.

I think a challenge for me is that I don't have much of a memory of that early part of my life, in general my memory doesn't seem to work exactly the same way as other people, which I think might be another ND thing possibly. It means that I don't remember what contributed to any supposed small T trauma and so everything ends up being based on speculation or filling in gaps. It seems like talking about things does seem to help me remember things sometimes though.

I realise that I hadn't mentioned shame at all in my first post, I guess it must have been pretty obvious, but you're right to bring it up as it's likely the source of the self-criticisms, and something that I'm aware that I still struggle with. Your comparison between feeling depressed and being unable to go forwards backwards is very much how I feel. I'm forever talking to therapists about being "stuck". Overall I'm so thankful that you wrote that message to me, I think that I am feeling more understood.

Re: Depression and negative affirmations

passingthrough — Mon, 16 Dec 2024 12:56:45 GMT

Hi yggdrasil and thanks for your message, I think I'm a bit overwhelmed to have got multiple responses, so sorry for not replying sooner.

Thanks for your support and suggestions, I read them a couple of times over the weekend and thought about it, so I might write them out here. I'm not writing much in my journal at the moment so maybe this will help.

I feel like I have a fairly stable routine but it doesn't incorporate anything that could really lift me up and make me feel better. I feel like I'm stuck in it.
I think I did do some schema therapy in either 2016 or 2017, I can't remember too much from it, there was definitely some worksheets about child and adult (or maybe parent?) modes. I think I might have had a strong dose of "detached self soother" or words to that effect.
The idea of me skateboarding is hilarious, I'm too old, tall, heavy and self conscious. I should probably try and get a bike though. The challenge with physical activity the last few years has been to find something that I want to do that won't aggravate some injury. Actually this comment made me think I should play tetris again, I like the sense that you simply have to keep putting blocks in holes, and when it's fast enough 2 bad moves is usually enough to kill you, or at least end me, so you can't think of anything else.
I'm not sure how to approach this one, I've never really understood spirituality. I guess sport is possibly as close as it could get?
I really think I am trying with this, I'm always trying to write lists of painfully simple tasks to tick off - today I had "take the bins out" for example - the trouble is when you only have one or two tasks down and you do nothing then that page has no achievements on it forever. I do keep coming back to it though. I've realised that I think in sentences, so it helps to write things down, I find that I sometimes worry less or can move on from things after they're written down.

Sorry for the unnecessary tangents, and thanks for giving me some things to think about.

Re: Depression and negative affirmations

Eagle Ray — Tue, 17 Dec 2024 09:25:19 GMT

Thank you kindly passingthrough. In terms of anything you’ve experienced, trauma may not be the right word. I just used the small t trauma example as it gets talked about quite often now, but perhaps something like learned patterns or adaptations may be in there.

I just mentioned the shame as it was what I thought of after reading the statements from your inner critic. I know sometimes a trait that is described in some people with autism is alexithymia which refers to finding it hard to find language for emotions. So maybe you experience the statement about yourself without naming the emotion? I read a book by Donna Williams (later known as Polly Samuel) that I really liked called Autism and Sensing: The Unlost Instinct. She had autism herself (she died in 2017). I prefer her take on autistic processing which is more nuanced. She talks about people with autism staying closer to sensory understandings of the world versus more interpretive understandings and ego-based understandings which may develop later - of the world as a series of feelings and sense perceptions first that isn’t always describable for the person in words, or only with some delay. Certainly my world has been like this. So it’s taken me many years to identify and name emotions in myself in a conscious sense, often with a lot of dissociation going on. I’m not sure I’m explaining this well (tired brain). But I do feel autistic processing is different and so making sense of things like depression is more complex than just labelling it as that. I like the way you referred to it in your original post as “what I roughly call depression”. I can really relate to this description as things often feel more amorphous to me than the distinction of labels and categories. If you look up The System of Sensing by Donna Williams on YouTube you may find it interesting. The video was made when she was going through chemo with terminal cancer. She was just an amazing person, so lucid and positive given her situation. I was fortunate to do 3 counselling sessions with her shortly before this time. I got infinitely further with her than I did with the psych I’d been trying to work with at the time. She read me clearly when the psych couldn’t see me at all and she was living autism from the inside out, so her understandings are deeply insightful. She also picked complex trauma as my primary developmental issue but that autistic traits were mixed in with it. I fortunately found a really good psych in 2022 who has helped me massively with the complex trauma side, but this has also helped me in terms of self-acceptance in terms of autistic and adhd traits.

Sorry, I’m rambling somewhat, but thought I’d just share those perspectives in case they help. Donna Williams (aka Polly Samuel) also points to strengths in autistic processing. She sees that everyone starts off somewhat similar with this prototypical processing style but autistic people tend to hold it for longer, especially as neurons in the autistic brain don’t get pruned in the way they do in others, so all these extra connections are going on. It’s actually fascinating and helps me to understand my somewhat chaotic-feeling brain.

I’m glad if you’re feeling a bit more understood. I know the stuck feeling very well. I do feel I’m starting to unstick though so I hope I can give some encouragement that that is possible.

Best wishes,

Re: Depression and negative affirmations

passingthrough — Sun, 12 Jan 2025 10:58:23 GMT

Hi Eagle Ray, thanks for that last message and sorry for the delayed reply - I meant to write a response in a day or two, and then days turned to weeks and it was a new year and so on. There was a couple of things you brought up that I wanted to comment on.

Thank you for the recommended reading, I can't promise that I will actually read or watch any of their work, but I already have many hours of podcasts I've been meaning to listen to for ages, so I won't make promises that I might not keep. I also have a bit of an aversion to watching youtube videos about Autism for reasons that I don't quite understand.

Your comment about experiencing and understanding emotions is something that is not new to me, I remember the therapist I was talking to in 2016 saying something similar. She recommended a Brene Brown audiobook that's basically about shame (I haven't read much else by her but I think it's a topic she's gone back to many times). I feel that I know that shame is the main thing that I struggle with, and I feel I have an understanding of it, but it's not an emotional understanding. I understand it as being the feeling that I am a bad or defective person. In that book it's introduced as a counterpart to guilt: Guilt comes from doing bad, Shame comes from being bad. But I don't know what it's meant to actually feel like.

More generally it seems that there is a gap in the way I react to stress. It's something like:

Stressful stimuli -> Feel "bad" -> Some maladaptive coping (eating, avoidance, sex, telling myself I'm a loser until I fall asleep).

I could say at the time when I'm in the middle bit (if anyone actually asked) that I felt bad, but I don't know if I'm actually feeling anything at all, and I can't name any further details or why. I don't know if this is because I'm depressed, or because my brain is different or if I don't let myself feel anything for some reason.

Also, for what it's worth when I made that comment about "what I roughly call depression” I was meaning that it's not a term my current doctor or anyone I've seen in the last year has told me. But also as you say I don't strongly or clearly identify with it, but I have to call it something and that something is depression.

All the best.

Re: Depression and negative affirmations

Eagle Ray — Mon, 13 Jan 2025 08:07:43 GMT

Hi passingthrough,

Yes, please don't feel any obligation to read or watch those things. It's just where my mind went based on what you were talking about. I think the best resources are often the ones we find ourselves that resonate with us. There are so many videos now on autism it's almost overwhelming. I think I know what you mean about something feeling uncomfortable without being able to clearly discern why. I get that feeling myself in relation to certain things sometimes.

That's interesting about shame and intellectually recognising/understanding it but not exactly emotionally feeling it. I think I can emotionally feel it but was also dissociated from it for many years, so it was always there but I couldn't put it into words, if that makes any sense? For me it is a kind of gut-wrenching, sickening, painful inner collapse. I experience it as a contraction in my body where I almost want to curl up in a ball. So it is quite toxic really. I countered it growing up by developing a relentlessly positive persona which was also a survival response to my family environment. Yet underneath I really wasn't ok.

I don't know the best way of how to try to connect with it emotionally for you. What you describe does sound like what gets called alexithymia. My psychologist will ask where I feel something in my body or what is happening in my body. Sometimes I can't answer her but I'm slowly getting better at it and I can sense where there are constrictions. I'm starting to detect the links between certain emotions and bodily responses. So I don't know but maybe some kind of somatic awareness work may help. Obviously we are often guarded against shame because we don't want to feel it, but I have learned that allowing myself to feel in the presence of a compassionate other is often what allows the feeling to release and the nervous system to recalibrate.

I don't know the answer to why it's hard for you to explain further why you feel bad when you do. It could be one or all of the reasons you mention. I think a huge amount of our responses are reflexive/implicit rather than conscious/explicit, so whatever is happening may have its own internal logic for your nervous system. I've learned our nervous system does things for a reason and is always trying to take care of us, and a lot of this is going on outside our conscious awareness. Also, if dissociation is present, we can be doing certain things without really knowing why. For me I am finding that gradually working through things with somatic awareness is the only way I've been able to really understand and work through these processes with my psychologist. It's like a gradual waking up to things I've been dissociated from.

I understand what you're saying about the term depression. It's quite a diffuse word. I think clinical depression is usually demarcated by things like loss of enjoyment of activities that you once enjoyed and strong shutdown and withdrawal from the world. I'm actually experiencing some depression at the moment which is hormonally driven and involves frequently wanting to collapse and burst into tears. But I think we can also be sort of generally dissociated which could be called depression or not. Again, the only suggestion I can think of is bringing somatic awareness to feelings, as I think it's often those amorphous, nameless feelings that are affecting us but if we can start to delineate them a bit we can begin to work through stuff in our nervous system.

Not sure if that ramble is helpful. But I hope things get easier in time and you can begin to make more and more sense of things. Not that things have to make sense exactly but just having a sense generally of what our nervous system is doing can be helpful. It may allow you to be more present with how you respond to stressful stimuli too. I find I still have my automated responses to stressful stimuli, but then my conscious mind now catches up with what's happening and can step in more. So, for example, my inner critic might start attacking me but I quickly subdue it and replace it with kindness instead.

Best wishes,

Re: Depression and negative affirmations

quirkywords — Mon, 13 Jan 2025 09:17:09 GMT

Passing through

thanks for your honest posts and encouraging the discussion with ER and the rising and everyone who has contributed . I have learnt a lot from everyone.

Re: Depression and negative affirmations

passingthrough — Wed, 29 Jan 2025 12:09:31 GMT

Hi Quirkywords, thanks for letting me know that - I feel as though I have no Idea what I'm doing here so it's good to hear. Just making it up as I go.

Re: Depression and negative affirmations

passingthrough — Wed, 29 Jan 2025 12:34:30 GMT

Hi ER, hope you're doing well.

Same caveats apply as to my last reply. I had been thinking about and intending to write back for a while, but it's not been happening until now.

Funnily enough my comment about discomfort with the thought of watching any autism video essays on youtube has gotten worse, as I accidentally watched a few seconds of the wrong thing and now my feed is full of all kinds of self help/improvement videos and essays that all sound terrifying and overwhelming. I guess the answer is probably to stop going to youtube, but I guess that's easier said than done. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You're description of feeling shame sounds just awful, and your comment about countering it with a relentlessly positive personality is interesting. I sometimes feel that I countered something about bad social interactions by becoming someone who was always trying to make the other person laugh any time I was in a conversation with anyone. It's probably a huge cliche to say, but I don't know whether this is really me, or just the mask controlling me. Like I don't know what it's like to not speak like that, I don't have any other voice.

I don't really know what I'm doing with my psychologist at the moment. It seems like they're trying to understand what I need or trying to get me to understand it, but it really feels like it's something I'm going to have to discover for myself somehow and then get back to them. I feel like videos and podcasts are going to be too confronting, but maybe I can read books and continue writing. That seems like it may be more manageable. It seems like they would like me to be more understanding of how I feel in my body, but I just kind of feel nothing, and it doesn't seem like there's anywhere to go from that.

It's perhaps worth saying that I don't feel as bad now as when I started the thread or more generally felt in the final quarter of 2024, the affirmations are still there pretty much unchanged, but I feel a bit less stuck in patterns of inactivity and the feeling of taking steps in life is different somehow. It might be the drugs, or some things I could maybe point to at work or so on but I definitely think it was worse before.

Thanks as always for taking the time to write back to me. I'm probably being selective in what I reply to, but I read everything, and it is all interesting to me.

Take care

Re: Depression and negative affirmations

Eagle Ray — Thu, 30 Jan 2025 12:57:56 GMT

Hello passingthrough,

I think definitely follow what’s right with you. If books and writing are more your thing definitely follow your intuition with that. Journaling can be a helpful thing to see patterns, kind of letting out a stream of consciousness and seeing what’s there or just reflecting on your day and learning things about yourself in the process.

You mentioning masks is an interesting topic. On the one hand I’ve always felt a transparent person whose vulnerabilities are quite obvious and yet I have had a pattern of relentless cheerfulness in the past which was like a mask really, because I often was not so great underneath. It was an adaptation to childhood circumstances. What you describe with seeking to make people laugh in bad (maybe uncomfortable) social situations I think is a natural sort of response to wanting things to flow better or be more at ease. Like you say it can be kind of automated so we just find ourselves doing something like that.

As I’ve gotten older what I’ve found is I’ve become increasingly conscious over the years in social interactions. I just turned 50 and when I look back at each decade I see an increase in how present I am and conscious I am of what I’m saying. When I was younger I was not very conscious at all. It’s like something primal ran me and I was just the conduit for that. Now I have more agency and presence, especially quite recently. I think working with my psychologist has really been part of that as she is so very present with me which has taught me to be more present with myself.

I wonder if in your case you are still finding your voice? I certainly was for many years. Now that I have this feeling of greater presence and agency, I think a more definite voice is coming through. For example, I’m developing preferences and able to express them. I used to be very accommodating to everyone else and didn’t think I minded much what I did. I just kind of fitted in with what other people wanted. Now I’m starting to get a sense of actually having ideas about what I want and even developing a quite focused approach to achieving things I would like to do. It’s like a new concept for me but it’s quite empowering.

If feeling things in the body is difficult to get in touch with when working with your psych, I wonder if a sort of stream of consciousness exercise would help instead? A few years ago I used to go to a writing group and we would do something called wild writing. It meant just writing straight from the unconscious without censoring it in any way. We would be given a prompt/theme to get going. It was amazing what comes out - sort of a dreamscape or world of impressions and senses and all sorts of things. Perhaps your psych could even guide you in it, but you only have to share the content if you want to? Or you could try attending a writing group along those lines?

Just some thoughts anyway. I’m glad you are not feeling as bad as you did when you started the thread. It’s good to get stuff down about how you’re feeling and that’s often the beginning of things kind of organically beginning to make sense and get worked through.

You take care too,

Re: Depression and negative affirmations

quirkywords — Fri, 31 Jan 2025 08:46:29 GMT

Passing through

many people read the posts but do t reply. So people will learn from the honesty of others.

I try not to use words that end in less, hopeless, useless, and statements that use words like never always etc.

so I say sometime I feel I have little hope or a few times I have felt I did not belong.
Thanks again ER and passingthrough

Re: Depression and negative affirmations

passingthrough — Sun, 02 Feb 2025 10:02:09 GMT

I can't see how to quote on this forum but I would have quoted you saying.

"I used to be very accommodating to everyone else and didn’t think I minded much what I did. I just kind of fitted in with what other people wanted."

And say that I find that to be somehow familiar. Thanks as always for the reply.