topic Re: Depression and Alcohol in Depression

Depression and Alcohol

Helpadad — Mon, 08 Aug 2022 13:26:01 GMT

Hi All,

Its been now another year since my last post. .My wife is still in denial, despite still drinking in secret and hiding wine bottles in random places. She is still angry with the world and blames everybody but herself for the state she is in. Her anger goes from 0-100 in seconds, and I do my best to protect the kids from it but feel I am failing. She won't get help, to get nothing is wrong. If I leave, it would destroy my kids.

We built such a good life together, but she is never happy. I have prayed for light at the end of the tunnel but feel there is none.

The words that come out of her mouth when she gets angry, it is hurtful. I believe she has BPD, because if all the different sides she has. She can be so kind and a beautiful mother, but then becomes the worse.

Not sure what to do next, just wanted to say it out loud. Thanks for listening .

Dear Helpadad We welcome you back to the forums and wan...

Sophie_M — Mon, 08 Aug 2022 14:43:54 GMT

Dear Helpadad

We welcome you back to the forums and want to let you know that we are thankful for your courage and bravery reach out and share your experience about your wife’s depression and alcohol use this evening.

We can hear that you have been going through this for some time now, that your wife is still in denial and that this is taking its toll on your health and wellbeing trying to hold the family together and protect the children; this requires great loyalty and persistence.

While it is clear that you have worked hard, persevered to support your wife in managing her addiction, please remember that is also as important to look after your own wellbeing, both physically and emotionally. We say this as the burden of responsibility does not just sit with your wife and her health but also extends to your responsibilities as a home maker, particularly with the children, work and financial commitments to meet.

We wonder whether it might be helpful to for your wife to speak with a GP, assuming she would be willing to do so in order for her to get the support she might be needing here. For you also, to build a support network in family, friends, and of course by reaching out to support services in order for you to find some strategies in moving forward from here. We have included some links below that you might find helpful.

Family Drug and Alcohol Support Service

Alcoholics Anonymous Australia

Sometimes it can be good to talk, if you ever you feel like you need to talk this through, we are also here 24/7 on 1300 22 4636 or via our Webchat, just Click Here . Our team who answer the phones are ready to have a supportive and non-judgmental chat whenever you need it.

It shouldn’t be too long before you hear from one of our lovely community members. Please remember we are always here if you ever need us.

Regards

Sophie M

Re: Depression and Alcohol

geoff — Mon, 08 Aug 2022 15:22:11 GMT

Hello Helpadad, good to hear from you again and unfortunately your wife only believes that alcohol will solve her problems, whereas in fact, it can do the opposite and extenuate other issues that weren't initially a concern.

Even though she may be a good mum, it's not these times that leave a mark on her family, it's when her mood changes that may damage her relationships with you and the kids and being a cupboard drinker, you're not sure how much she does drink or when.

If you decide to leave her, temporarily or not, then you can take the kids with you and by doing this could change her mind and realise that she does need to find some help.

This may not happen suddenly but missing the kids may be the key.

Geoff.

Life Member.

Re: Depression and Alcohol

Helpadad — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 10:51:46 GMT

Hi Geoff,

Thanks for the kind words. I have thought many times of leaving with the kids but finances etc make this a difficult option. We invested everything into out dream home, and still it's not enough for her. The drinking did seem to improve, but tonight she flared up and started in my 14 year old. When I tell her to stop, she says I don't support her and always stand up for my daughter before her. It then snow balls from there, with the worst language and slandering in front of the kids. How I am a horrible narcissistic, abusive husband and I ruined her life. Once she stops it won't end until she falls asleep and wakes up sober. I can recognise her triggers and usually when she interacts with her father. She is the mirror image of him in everyway. He's an abusive drinker and so is she.

I try to weigh up the mental effect on my kids if we split, versus living with a mother who won't get help.

I did try the GP approach, but she gets very defensive and says why there is nothing wrong, I am her problem.

We are due for an overseas family holiday soon, not sure how that will go, but the kids are very excited.

She blames me for everything wrong in her life, but I know that's not true. I have enough people telling me what a kind soul I am. She hates it when people compliment me.

Despite all if this I know the woman I fell in love with and married is still there somewhere, just masked by a cloud of alcohol and depression.

Not an easy decision, I know I have enough evidence for sole custody but I'd rather not do that because it would push her over the edge.

Tomorrow's another day.

Thanks for listening

Re: Dear Helpadad We welcome you back to the forums and wan...

Helpadad — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 10:56:16 GMT

Thanks Sophie for your reply,

I did try the GP option, didn't go down well. I have tried an intervention with her family in the passed, she has never forgiven me for that.

The abuse when she is drunk is unrelenting, and in front of the kids. She tells them what a horrible man and father I am. It so not nice to listen to, and I worry what harm it is having on my kids. They are three beautiful kids, 1 boy 2 girls. They are my life. I want our family to stay together, but something has to change, but she won't accept she is the problem. I begged her to use my companies EAP which she always says she will, but never does. I have spoken to them, and will again. It is good to air my thoughts.

Thanks again for listening

Re: Depression and Alcohol

therising — Sun, 21 Aug 2022 22:15:42 GMT

Hi Helpadad

I feel for you so much as you face such a stressful and deeply upsetting situation. With so many possible solutions, when none of them are easy they just don't feel like solutions. They can end up feeling more like stressors.

As a mum who stopped drinking the day I came out of 15 or so years in depression, I can say without a doubt it was the depression itself that kept me drinking all those years. While not as heavy a drinker when I had kids (compared to pre motherhood), I still relied on it as an emotional regulator. Btw, my kids were very young when things all changed for the better. Alcohol can definitely do the opposite of regulating emotions. Too much tends to take emotions to the extreme. If wanting freedom from social anxiety, it can bring out the social butterfly to the extreme, giving us the label of 'life of the party', while we may deeply regret the next day being the life of the party, leading to a sense of shame. If wanting freedom from inner turmoil, anger and depression, it can bring out the venter in us, to the extreme, leading us to vent great inner turmoil, anger and all that brings us down, while possibly destroying the lives of others while we vent. I found while alcohol gave me a sense of emotional liberation, there was nothing to ground me out of extreme emotion, bringing me back down to earth. I find that a core sense of self grounds me while I'm exploring challenging emotions. As you touched on, your wife sounds like she lacks a core sense of self. She doesn't know who she is and it's angering, frustrating and depressing. A 'twisting in the wind' kind of feeling. The most liberating thought I've have ever had in my 52 years was the one that led me out of depression: 'I have absolutely no idea who I really am'. I thought I knew. I thought/believed I was the person who everyone around me had shaped, through praise, turmoil, putdowns, challenge, job description and other roles etc.

A psychological sense of self is one thing. A physical sense of self is another. I've found gaining a natural sense of self (a 3rd aspect) is what truly helped me form the core of who I am.

If you ask many people who face depression 'Do you know who you truly are?', the answer is often 'I have no idea. I'm so lost'.

Re: Depression and Alcohol

ecomama — Sun, 21 Aug 2022 22:37:29 GMT

Dear Helpadad,

There are another few new members going through very similar to you, if you wanted to have a read?
You may feel a connection with them and together be able to support each other.

In your short re-introductory post there are some huge red flags there... still in denial, secret drinking, blames everybody else...
anger
abuse
protecting the kids
never happy
hurting others
won't get help... I think this is the short list.

Don't worry, it's all your fault if you're still there supporting her.
It will be all your fault if you leave.
There's no point trying to make sense of their alcohol fogged speak.
There IS a point to breaking free from it.

You say if you leave it would "destroy" your kids.
You really only have 2 options as I see it atm.
1. leaving
2. staying and more of the same, wash rinse repeat and as research shows, getting far worse before and IF she ever gets better.
The long term effects of living with an abusive, alcoholic parent are splattered all over the forums.
I don't recall any posts here from adults wishing their parent STAYED with the alcoholic parent.

You cannot control her behaviour and choices.

From my POV the damage is far worse to the kids (and you) if you stay.
Perhaps her only needing to turn up to the kids' sports on a Saturday will be all she can manage sober.
I found this dwindled off too.

Wishing you the best
EM

Re: Depression and Alcohol

jenijenjen — Wed, 24 Aug 2022 21:35:07 GMT

Try to find a support group in your area, for relatives of alcoholics. Your GP may have resources. Al Anon is very good and doesn't cost anything.

There is support available for partners and children that live in an abusive environment including financial support.

Alcohol addiction is too powerful to fix, she has to hit her rock bottom before she will do anything. What you can do is stop it from affecting you and your children. I know it's a terrible situation to be in but help is available

Re: Depression and Alcohol

Helpadad — Fri, 26 Aug 2022 10:37:28 GMT

Hi all,

Thankyou all for taking the time to reply to me. It is an emotional roller coaster, we got to our worst last week, screaming at each other and name calling. She said some truely hurtful things and as all people in the situation blames me for everything. As therising said she often mentions she doesn't know who she is. It all stems back to her father who was an abusive drunk and still is. She visited her mum today and he ignores her. The irony is he ignores her because of the way she treats me and the kids, even though she is a product of his up bringing. I do worry the cycle will continue and my children will end up like her. But they do already at a young age have a hatred for alcohol. She takes all her frustration on my eldest daughter who is 14. She has the usual attitude that all 14 year Olds do, but when I step in to defend my daughter from the cruel way she talks to her, all hell follows. She blames her and me for everything wrong in her life. But when she wants to get a rise she starts by saying how horrible a dad I am to my other two children who I love dearly. She uses them and says they live her and are kind to her, truth is they are scared of her getting angry and just want to appease her.

I am so lost, and the only thing keeping me going is my kids. Her cruelty is starting to break me down. I went to the doctor after my bloody pressure was 160/107, he said try and remove stresses! I wish it was that easy. The thought of being a single dad in a small house scares me. We have built such a great life for ourselves, the dream life style. It will all come crashing down. I am doing everything I can to protect my kids and keep their home together for them, but I feel I am doing the wrong thing. After today I am 100% convinced she has bipolar. We were having a nice moment chatting about her father etc, then she 10 minutes later she was screaming the house down.i know what I have to do, just dont have the courage to look my kids in the face and tell them I am leaving their mum.

Re: Depression and Alcohol

ecomama — Fri, 26 Aug 2022 11:09:37 GMT

Dear Helpadad, you're going through so much suffering, I'm sorry this is happening to you all.

I'm afraid you mentioned more red flags than before... being parental alienation speak. W pulling the "you don't love ___ as much as ___ " is part of this. I honestly think she KNOWS the marriage is high and dry and is already prepping for post marriage garbage like Court.

I found this perplexing... "The thought of being a single dad in a small house scares me. We have built such a great life for ourselves, the dream life style. It will all come crashing down."

What are you afraid of being a single dad "in a small house"?

The most shocking statement was this "We have built such a great life for ourselves, the dream life style."
I think not! You are describing a nightmare lifestyle, for you AND the kids.
If it was a great life and dream life style then you wouldn't be here describing the nightmare?

Safety on all levels is a responsible parents' number one priority.
Screaming abuse at each other is psychologically damaging to the kids.

I'm concerned authorities will get involved to protect the children tbh.

It's far better to be more in control of the separation and assets split whilst keeping the kids with you than the above.

Best wishes
EM

Re: Depression and Alcohol

Helpadad — Fri, 26 Aug 2022 11:29:42 GMT

Hi ecomama,

I'm not sure if your words were meant to be so judgemental or not. Or you have misinterpreted what I was saying. Our marriage was great, three beautiful kids, and security. It all started to spiral when we built our dream home and moved in with her parents whilst we built. This woke up some old demons and then it slowly spiralled. So yes we did build a great life for our family, but that would seem is not enough. So please don't judge, I have enough of that at home.

Re: Depression and Alcohol

therising — Fri, 26 Aug 2022 23:22:46 GMT

Hi Helpadad

One of the most frustrating things in life can involve being more conscious than the person who you desperately wish was more conscious. Kind of feels like you're awake yet the other person is asleep and you just can't wake them up.

The person asleep has to want to 'wake up', they have to want to get out of their living nightmare. On the other hand, you can have someone who enjoys being asleep. With that 2nd one, my husband absolutely loves drinking 2 slabs of beer a week along with a 'treat' of Jack Daniels on the weekend. He refuses to acknowledge this as him managing his life and emotions through alcohol. Want to feel peace, drink. Want to escape from challenges that need to be faced and worked through constructively, want to cure boredom, drink etc etc. He simply sees himself as 'having an enjoyable way of relaxing', just like his dad. As I've mentioned to him, 'You do know this is called 'Escapism' and 'Different degrees of being drunk''. He denies it but with me having lived on both sides of the fence, as an ex drinker, I know the drill. While I drank to escape feeling the nightmare of depression, he simply loves being asleep.

You're wife sounds desperate to escape what's depressing her and you're daughter sounds naturally feisty. I have one of those, who's almost 20. She's inspiring. She refuses to tolerate her father's intolerable behaviour. She's taught me well. For example, she's known to say 'Dad, go away and come back when you've got more respect for me'. While myself, my daughter and 17yo son used to please him, so as not to trigger him, now we please ourselves as a tight knit little team that supports each other. This appears to him as us going against him, ganging up. I imagine you can relate.

Not sure if you've tried acknowledging, out loud at her, how your wife thinks and feels her way through life. For example 'I know you desperately want to make sense of everything that's depressing you. I know this is all incredibly hard on you and I know how much you truly hate yourself and how painful that is'. We can have 99 people simply telling us to not hate our self, yet when that 100th person comes along and fully acknowledges the incredible pain that comes with overwhelming self hatred, it can be a relief. Do you know if she hates herself?

Re: Depression and Alcohol

Helpadad — Sat, 27 Aug 2022 09:03:30 GMT

Therising you have hit the nail on the head, that is exactly my situation. 2 kids not wanting to trigger her so she considers them well behaved, but the 14 year old is discovering her voice and won't stand for the shouting. That's not to say my daughter is always right, she is a 14 year old finding her way in the world. I don't know how to wake her up, but will try your words and see how I go.

It is the constant blame of others that get me down, and the lies. She makes up things from the passed to condone her behaviour. Calls me all sorts of names. It does sound very common though, she has lost her identity. I get " I gave up my life for you to support your career and have three children, what did you give up for me?"

In truth I can't answer that question, I work all the time in a very stressful job, I am hiding in my work. My biggest fear is that in the blink of an eye my kids will be grown up and left and I have missed their child hood.

My children are all I am staying for. When she is having an episode she says you never show me affection or love, how can I when she is treating me this way? I see a councillor through work, find comfort in this forum but she sees no one. I had an intervention last year and took her to hospital after that. We did the two week program at a drug and alcohol centre. She was the best she had been once they had her in detox meds. But after straight back to it. No after care or support, I phoned them and asked them to check on her, they said it's confidential and she has to contact. Severe lack of support.

Thanks again for your message.

Re: Depression and Alcohol

therising — Sat, 27 Aug 2022 21:20:14 GMT

Hi Helpadad

I've found 'reality' to be a bit of a trip, a strange constantly shifting thing. As someone once said 'You're perception dictates your reality. It's your perception, to a degree, that makes things appear as being completely real to you', which can help explain a lot. Based on beliefs and experiences leading to how we perceive things, it can help explain why 2 people see reality very differently. It can also help explain why a person's version can suddenly change, based on a gradual or sudden mind altering shift in their perception. Hope all that makes sense.

Not sure if it could possibly help in making sense of things but I'll throw it out there in the hope that it does. While your wife's reality may happily once have been 'My husband makes life so much easier, bringing in all the money so I'm free to raise the kids full time. I love it. It's such a relief to be able to rely on him' it may have shifted. If she's suddenly woken up to a deep soulful longing for excitement, adventure and future plans, she will have woken up to a new perception/reality that may dictate 'I have no partner who takes the time to partner me in new exciting things, adventures, lots of plans to work towards' etc. In her mind, you will now appear as 'absent' most of the time. Of course your reality is 'I have no time for all of that, based on the seriously long hours I work' and you'd be absolutely right. So, it's kind of like 2 versions of the one situation. Technically, neither one is wrong, they're simply 2 versions. I suppose this is kind of what a marriage counselor works with, making sense of both versions of reality and leading a couple to develop a new one that works all 'round.

With the drinking, it may appear as a real solution to her suffering, in her mind. For you and the kids, it appears as a real problem. The sufferance for you and the kids is definitely real and incredibly damaging and, deep down, I imagine she knows it.

It's undeniably taxing work at times, this 'reality' business, especially when it keeps shifting.

Re: Depression and Alcohol

geoff — Sat, 27 Aug 2022 21:53:50 GMT

Hello Helpadad, unfortunately this is what happens when people go to rehab, is that they are perfect while in there, but when they come out there isn't much suppoort, so the person either meets up with their usual friends and start once again, or a problem arises that wasn't present while in rehab, and their way of coping is to go back to exactly how they were before.

The after help relies on that person to contact rehab, rather than the other way around, but this doesn't help the rest of the family.

I have often said the kids are happier in two households, rather than an unhappy one.

Geoff.

Life Member.

Re: Depression and Alcohol

Helpadad — Wed, 28 Sep 2022 10:48:19 GMT

Thanks all for your messages and advice. I have come to a point now where I have to make a decision. We are in a family holiday, and have met up with my other family members for a big celebration. She has been drunk everyday and loud and abusive. I have had enough and I have to think of my kids. Other family members can see if also. I find myself trying to cover for her as she makes nasty comments to me. My 14 year Old daughter ask her if she had been drinking. She lies to her and said no. Children should not have to ask their mum this, it is heartbreaking. She is so volatile now, makes up stories, tells lies. She has her own version if reality.

My question for anyone who has been through this, is do I go for full custody? Or would this push her over the edge? Is she still entitled to half of everything, despite her abusive and drinking behaviour being the reason for the separation? I know this is the path I must go, but I don't want to hurt my three beautiful children.

Re: Depression and Alcohol

ecomama — Wed, 28 Sep 2022 11:41:48 GMT

Dear Helpadad, I'm so sorry if my post to you made you feel judgemental. It wasn't my intention. I'm sorry.

I am so sorry you and your whole family is going through this. It's SO hard to make big decisions that alter the course of everyone's lives. Especially when it's about the people we love the MOST in the whole world.

I really get it. I'm sorry.

Seeing some of the things you wrote about the kids seeing stuff happening made me concerned that authorities would get involved.
Some things we may see as "normal family conflicts" or just you trying desperately to do ALL you can to work through this... all of this can be relayed and we end up in a corner with authorities.

That's kind of what happened with me.
So I do everything I can to prevent this situation for others, knowing all the while that these awful decisions are really up to them and I can't do anything to help or prevent anything for you all.

My post was intended to be protective of you and the kids.
I wish we could all help your wife too, but this is all up to her.
You know you've done everything humanly possible to bring things up with her which only leads to outbursts of fury (I've experienced similar with a very mentally unwell spouse doing similar).

When we love our partner, see the potential for them and our whole family and can't do a thing to change anything... it's horrible.

I'm sincerely sorry my post didn't come across as it was intended. I hope you forgive me?
I'll try to use kinder modalities and always wish you and everyone in your family the very best.
EM

Re: Depression and Alcohol

geoff — Wed, 28 Sep 2022 16:14:32 GMT

Hello Helpadad, children will ask your wife if she has been drinking, but they already know and even when she tells them that she hasn't, they don't believe her because they can see for themselves.

I can't tell you what to do, but I can suggest that this is no way to bring up your children, with your wife constantly drinking, telling lies and leading them in a falsh direction, it's not a good example for them.

My kids were had moved out of home and my wife did the same until I was served with divorce papers, however, now we both talk regularly, but this would depend on your whether or not you want this to happen.

All of this is about you and the kids, you can't control what your wife wants to do, it's totally her choice and someone who is an alcoholic doesn't particularly care about their children, because this allows them to drink in peace and quiet, with no questions asked.

Your children will appreciate a stable life style and cope with their mum's drinking as they want to, perhaps with much disappointment, but their reaction won't stop her from drinking.

This is a problem only she can deal with and if you apply for full custody, then may be if she stops then an arrangement can be made between you.

Whatever you decide does not have any bearing on what your wife does, you have had enough and I'm sure the kids have as well, so either tell her to leave, go yourself or sell, if you are buying, the house, this is to remove any awful memories for your kids if they were to stay in this house, so try and erase this.

Always here for you and please ask any question you'd like.

Geoff.

Life Member.

Re: Depression and Alcohol

therising — Fri, 30 Sep 2022 20:51:49 GMT

Hi Helpadad

I feel for you so deeply as you struggle with the best direction to head in. To know the best direction, deep down, yet to fear taking it is just so incredibly tormenting. It's something that can leave you feeling torn apart in so many ways.

I can only imagine how exhausted you are. You have so much on your plate. You're managing your own mental health and the mental health of your kids. You're constantly mulling over what is the best direction to head in, while working a job on top of that. You're also managing your wife's behaviour. Whether that involves you managing her actions and emotions, you're also managing to pick up the pieces in the wake of each drinking binge and walking on eggshells while trying to manage how she behaves around others (such as with the family gathering), these are just a handful of things on an enormous list when it comes to everything you're working hard to manage. Don't underestimate what it takes to be the only fully conscious parent in the family. Often it's twice the workload. Very exhausting, to be the only 'go to' parent available.

Perhaps your wife will never become fully conscious of the impact of her drinking until she faces what the drink has taken away from her: Full custody of her kids, a family to live with, a reliable and caring partner etc. If she wakes up before the separation is completed and you're living somewhere else, who knows.

Regarding a share of the estate, a solicitor would be able to tell you where you stand. In some cases (based on a variety of circumstances, including the age of young children involved), a higher portion of the estate may be given to whoever gains full custody of the children. This is partly based on the fact that the parent with full custody can't go off and buy a 1 bedroom flat in which to house everyone. They need a cut big enough to house the kids, something recognised by the law.

Re: Depression and Alcohol

Helpadad — Tue, 04 Oct 2022 04:28:52 GMT

Thankyou all for your kind words and guidance. We just got back from a two week family holiday abroad and it was horrible. She drank and was abusive all the time. We met up with my family for a milestone celebration and basically did her best to upset everyone including my young nephew and nieces. I have had enough now. She grabbed the steering wheel whilst driving and when in a hotel I heard the kids scream, she had gone into the balcony and stood on a chair near the she. I grabbed her in. My main focus is now the kids. We are beyond fixing and I can't help someone who won't help themselves. I have spoken to a doctor who said to make clear deadlines for her to get help and then leave with the children if she does not meet them. He reiterated I must follow through with it. That is my first step before I look at whether or not I can buy her share of the house or just sell and start fresh. At this stage I will go for full custody if she does not get help. I don't want to take my kids mother away from them but she is not safe and too volatile. Today she was clear and kind, hugged me and said I am so sorry don't throw me out onto the streets. The emotional roller coaster is immense. Sometimes I feel I am abandoning her at her lowest, but I have been suffering her abuse for years.

My head is spinning about what to do next and if I am doing the right thing. My kids deserve to be happy, they are such beautiful kids. I know they will hate me for a bit especially as she seems in a good frame of mind at the moment. But I know I am doing the right thing and hopefully they will see that. Thanks all again.