topic Is there any point seeking professional help? in Depression

Is there any point seeking professional help?

2L85iblSXm — Wed, 28 Dec 2016 04:14:04 GMT

There is no depression amongst remote uncontacted peoples, nor is there amongst wild animals. Put a lion in a cage at the zoo, though, and he'll exhibit signs of anxiety. Put a sow (pig) in a farrowing crate and she'll experience a level of depression few here can imagine.

That's what happens when you put an animal in an unnatural environment. We're animals too and civilization is not our natural environment. Our cage is bigger, but it's there for anyone who knows what to look for.

I'm sick of it. No matter what I do, that cage will always be there. The masses will pretend it's not. I will remain miserable because freedom is dead. Forever.

It's a morbid system that demands we toil our lives away just for the scraps it takes to maintain existence. It's not worth the effort. Never will be.

I am unemployed. My unpopular perception of reality is causing tension between myself and my JobActive provider. The pressure is on now that I'm on stream C. I just know they're going to coerce me into using unethical means to apply for unethical jobs. That corrupt work for the dole scam is just around the corner too. I cannot, in good conscience, play into this system. It's an evil monster that needs to be starved to death.

Things are so bad with my JA provider that I, on their advice, had to obtain a medical exemption to get away from them. It expires in a couple of weeks and I have no idea if I can bring myself to go back there.

The doctor, unsurprisingly, was reluctant to give me a certificate over something so stupid. I'd feel uncomfortable returning so soon to tell him the details I left out of my story. Given that my goals are incompatible with the goals society has imposed on me, I don't see the point anyway.

That there is the problem - society has imposed its own goals on me. Those goals are wrong for me. All the "treatment" options have those same goals. I'm done playing their game. It's all stick and no carrot.

I don't want to be "normal". Most normal people are idiots, drones, pursuing a pointless cause. I want to be me, without the pressure to do society's bidding.

What am I to do? Even if the problem was solvable, I simply don't have the time left.

I don't even have it that bad. It's just that we all deserve better and I'm sick of pretending otherwise.

PS. This forum has some serious accessibility issues.

Is there any point seeking professional help?

BluBelle — Wed, 28 Dec 2016 09:39:51 GMT

Hey 2L85iblSXm.

I imagine it's hard to know for sure if uncontacted tribes experience depression because, well, they're uncontacted 😉 I imagine that chafing against the rules of whatever community or society you belong to would be common to all peoples though.

I'm interested to know what your goals actually are. I studied sociology at uni many moons ago (which has seemed absolutely useless up until right now) but I'm reminded of Merton's Strain Theory. Are you familiar? To paraphrase it badly, there are five groups a person can fall under when faced with cultural goals and insitutionalised ways of achieving those goals. Most people are Conformists, they accept both the goals and the means of getting them, eg: a nice house in the 'burbs and working 8 hours a day to earn money to pay for it. You can probably google a little table of what the rest are, but the ones that interest me the most are Innovation (accepting the goals but creating a new means of achieving them, sometimes illegally) and Rebellion (replacing both the goals and the means with your own). Where do you reckon you fall under?

Also, by accessibility issues do you mean for vision impaired or something else?

Is there any point seeking professional help?

2L85iblSXm — Wed, 28 Dec 2016 14:28:13 GMT

Maybe you're right about those uncontacted tribes. Then again, those tribes don't have internet access. Ignorance is bliss, and I'm all out of that. I'd be a lot happier if I was oblivious to the suffering of others.

I have no goals. I gave up on getting anything worthwhile long ago.

I repeatedly mentioned the word "goal" for a strategic reason. It's because a nurse gave me a pamphlet for a mental health service.

"Our aim is to support you to meet your identified goals"...

That line there is what let me know that I cannot work within the system. They expect progress, but I just want to be left alone. This is why I'm communicating online. Phone calls are too easy to trace.

The accessibility issues are not visual. It's browser compatibility.

My first visit was on the Android version of Firefox. I was reading the information on depression and wanted to read some of the personal stories. They all gave me a 404.

Signing up to this forum required too much information. And JavaScript. Web devs have a boner for that. I at least managed to create the account under Pale Moon (a port of Firefox). The activation email was incompatible with the webmail service I used too. I had to save the raw text to a .eml file and use Thunderbird to decipher the embedded link.

I'm using Chrome at the moment because I couldn't even get the cursor into the body field on Pale Moon. Chrome sucks. Can't even resize this tiny text field.

I almost didn't post my question because it was so difficult. Gotta wonder how many people are six foot under now because of similar difficulties. That's what makes the accessibility issues so serious. It messes people around in their time of greatest need.

I'm not even sure if this is the right site for me to be posting on. I'm used to discussing these sorts of things with more like-minded people. I don't have time for their cold hard logic though, so I'm trying to make do here.

Is there any point seeking professional help?

2L85iblSXm — Wed, 28 Dec 2016 23:41:58 GMT

Thanks for responding. I replied a few hours ago, but the forum seems to have eaten it. That's the kind of accessibility problem I'm dealing with. I won't repeat what was in that comment because I'm not sure if it was something in that comment that prevented it appearing.

I had a look at that diagram. I think I'm on the corner of retreatism and rebellion (if that's a valid place to be).

I've figured out the answer to my original question. Feeling better about the asymmetry between good and bad is not going to stop me getting cut off the dole. I can't get out of my rut until the source of my problems - financial insecurity - goes away. That's something that isn't going to happen.

I think I've made a mistake by coming here. I've needlessly taken up resources.

Is there any point seeking professional help?

pipsy — Thu, 29 Dec 2016 01:09:17 GMT

Hi 2L85iblSXm. Extremely unusual choice of title. Can't say actual name due to lack of. It's likely your original reply may have been blocked if it was deemed to be upsetting to other readers. Many people posting suffer debilitating depression and discussing animals under lock and key would've been distressing. Calling people 'drones' and 'idiots' is hardly fair as many people suffering serious mental health issues are often referred to as 'special needs'. These people have feelings though and insulting them because you are unhappy is rather inappropriate. I work with many 'special needs' people and I have found them to be polite and most happy to work in with whatever their schedule may be. You are more than welcome to continue posting, but please be mindful of other peoples sensitivities and needs. When you mention animals do not suffer depression, that is not quite true either. I lived on a farm, we used to have often have 'stillborn' calves, the mothers would 'low' for hours in grief over the loss. Sheep suffer similar depression as do any animal who looses her young. Human mothers in remote areas suffer severe depression when they loose their partner/children. People deal with depression in their own ways that's true but they still have the illness.

Lynda

Is there any point seeking professional help?

blondguy — Thu, 29 Dec 2016 01:45:44 GMT

Hi 2L85

Im actually glad you posted. Everyone is entitled to have their say and good on you. You havent wasted any resources. The forums are a safe non judgmental place to be if you want to stick around 🙂

Ive had depression since 1996 and having a good 'vent' to my GP and psychologist gave me my life back so I could keep working. I spent the 13 years prior to seeking help thinking I could self heal and exercise, eat well etc but that didn't help..

take care

Paul

Is there any point seeking professional help?

2L85iblSXm — Thu, 29 Dec 2016 02:22:16 GMT

Title reflects how I felt at the time. Name was randomly generated. I didn't want to pick a name that I'd later regret but could not change. Can't regret what means nothing.

The post finally came through. I was a drunk at the time I posted that, but tried to keep offensiveness down in spite of my impaired state. I think one word was replaced. (Although I might have self-censored that bit as there is a similar, more offensive word, still in there.) I have a very low EQ, so I can sometimes be unknowingly offensive. Makes things a bit harder when politeness is key. If editing posts was possible, I'd certainly go back and clean it up a little.

While it feels the same, I wouldn't consider mourning a loss to be real depression. I'm no expert though. I didn't even know I was depressed until I read the symptom list a few days ago, so I'll take your word on it.

The people I was speaking derogatorily of were actually not the ones with mental health issues. I intentionally started that sentence with "most" to make people think "oh, he can't be talking about me." Still, it was insensitive. So many people have personal problems that I do consider it abnormal to be normal.

I regret starting this thread. A forum, to me, is a place where people discuss something they have in common. Usually they enjoy that thing they share. Not here. I have one thing in common with a lot of people here and that's it. The differences are so many that I feel like I can't really express myself.

My core philosophy is very upsetting to some people. People sharing my philosophy have found therapy to be completely ineffective, which is why I'm very wary of going down that route. It's not a matter of feeling a certain way about something that is subjective. It's a game changing understanding of life itself that cannot be unlearned.

It's too hard to be so vague about something I consider to be relevant to my situation.

I don't believe how I feel to be relevant to my problem anymore. I could wake up in the best mood I've ever been in, but there is still going to be insurmountable friction when that medical exemption expires.

Yes, it sucks to feel this way, but the real problem lies outside of me.

Is there any point seeking professional help?

2L85iblSXm — Thu, 29 Dec 2016 02:42:06 GMT

blondguy said:
The forums are a safe non judgmental place to be if you want to stick around 🙂

That, unfortunately, is as problem for me. In my response to pipsy, I mentioned my potentially upsetting core philosophy. That philosophy makes a lot unoffensive stories I've read here upsetting to me.

I've become rather misanthropic in the past few months. I can no longer see good in people.

I think I need to look elsewhere for advice. But where?

A more complete version of my story cannot be told publicly, but I'm not ready to talk privately. Not until I'm confident it will be productive.

I regret starting this because it has made me realise that I'm slipping through the cracks of the system. The future looks even more bleak now.

Is there any point seeking professional help?

blondguy — Thu, 29 Dec 2016 10:23:53 GMT

Hey 2L85

No problemo....Im only on here because I was stuck 12 months ago buried in a pit of depression...which is still with me.

you are not on your own...

Paul

Is there any point seeking professional help?

2L85iblSXm — Thu, 29 Dec 2016 11:55:30 GMT

I hope I can get out of this, if for no other reason than to show others in my position how it's done. Unfortunately, I do know I'm not alone in this. Centrelink is cold and I've already seen people less fortunate that myself here getting sucked down that hole.

I first posted in a naïve attempt to find a loophole. Something that would buy me some time to maybe figure the rest out.

My reporting date was today. I've only been penalised $53. I thought my exemption covered the entire period in question but, looking back over the history, it looks like the penalty was delayed.

When I called my Centrelink's participation hotline a few days after things went south, they told me I'd only been reported once for non-compliance. Maybe I can negotiate something with them (my JA provider). They report me only once a fortnight; I don't burn down... ...I'd probably best not finish that sentence. Desperate times tho. I can get by on a little less. Things will get ugly on a lot less though.

Open question: Anyone here volunteered to be institutionalised?

As previously alluded, I was given a pamphlet for such a place. I suspect it could get Centrelink off my back, but I have a some reservations.

Ugh, if it wasn't obvious from my initial post, I might as well admit it. I'm [technically] vegan. That core philosophy partially and significantly hinges on it. In spite of my severe emotional and empathetic shortcomings, I am very much anti-suffering. No surprise really given that I suffer daily.

I was taken to hospital recently and was forced to take a drug that, most likely, had metaphoric blood on it. When I lament the lack of freedom in the world, this, this disrespect for personal beliefs, is one of the things I'm talking about. That drug was entirely unnecessary. If anything, it had the potential to make things worse. Psychologically, it may really have.

Diet is also an issue, as is detachment from my home life. My mother depends on me for things she really shouldn't. I can't leave her with the intention of returning. She won't learn to look after herself if she thinks I'm coming back.

I can get by without the booze (this place has a gym that I can use to tire myself to sleep) I think, but pharmaceuticals and medical attention are out of the question.

I really don't trust the system. I feel like I know better than them, but they're too arrogant to acknowledge that.

Is there any point seeking professional help?

blondguy — Sat, 31 Dec 2016 00:05:44 GMT

Hey 2L85

Thankyou for responding! There have been some people that have self admitted to hospital.....I will have a look see and find out who has/info on self admission.

I dont blame you for not trusting the system as I am partially the same but after my GP actually gave me my life back (and a crackerjack counsellor) with an anti-depressant that actually works that made me feel a bit safer

Its cool that there is a Gym in the facility!! Smart idea

Im on my 4th Centrelink Medical Certificate as my GP is aware that the job providers can be downright soul destroying..

Whats happening tonight....just a quiet one? or a noisy one?

Paul

Is there any point seeking professional help?

2L85iblSXm — Sat, 31 Dec 2016 01:32:32 GMT

Thank you, Paul, for sharing your experience.

Medication really is a sticky issue for me. No polite way of saying this, but I get the impression that everyone I know who takes them is a little dim. My depression is the existential type. I'm by no means a genius, but I'm at least intellectually honest. I can accept ideas as truth that most will deny because of inconvenience.

I drink because it's a depressant. Not a mood depressant as most people think, but a cognitive one. Slows you down. I suspect anti-[mood]-depressants are actually cognitive depressants too. Seemingly smart people appear to be dumbing themselves down just to function. That seems wrong.

I went vegan out of contempt for what our species has become. Some go there to hide an eating disorder (not me). There are a lot of wrong reasons to get into it. I mention EDs because it's a reoccurring theme, along with medication, in the subreddit that professional help tends to be very unaccommodating. Lacto-vegetarian they can do, but most vegans are lactose intolerant.

There's an element of disgust too. As I sip my whisky, I acknowledge that I'm actually drinking the distilled waste of microorganisms. Gross huh? That pollen that causes some people to sneeze is the sperm of a plant! These things don't disgust me because I'm conditioned not to feel that way. Animal byproducts do disgust me though because it has been so long since I've consumed any.

That's what makes medication a real problem for me. I technically don't need it. The companies that develop drugs do some horrible things. Their price fixing kills people in the the third world and first world alike. Animal testing though. My eyes are watering just thinking about it.

Generics get around the issue for some, but most of them still contain lactose and stearates (derived from animal fat). Those are inactive filler ingredients. They're icky, disrespectful to people of certain religions, not veg*an of course, and above all can be very easily replaced with ingredients nobody would object to. It's such a kick in the teeth.

Compounding may be a last resort, but who is manufacturing (and profiting from) the active ingredient?

I wanted to waffle on a bit more, but I'm running out of characters.

My mother is about to go on a trip of a lifetime. I'll never forgive myself if my problems interfere with it. I can't risk getting committed until she's out of the country. I'll book an appointment with my GP once I know she can't physically reach me.

Is there any point seeking professional help?

blondguy — Sat, 31 Dec 2016 06:41:44 GMT

Hey 2L85

You dont waffle at all. Everyone's thoughts on the forums are just as important and if we didnt have new posters on here then my volunteer role here would disappear as well as the forums

My sister is a vegetarian and I have always respected that. Whether Vegan or Vege its still a persons freedom of choice. I just choose to have a minimal meat content in my diet and love my veggies

I hear you on the huge monster pharmaceutical companies....they are global and their primary focus is profit, nothing more.

I reckon that GP's rock because they are not as unnecessarily complex as a psychiatrist can be sometimes. Depending of course whether a person gets along with their GP that is

Our two big supermarket chains still wont ban palm oil which bugs me....(as the orangutan's habitat is destroyed)

KFC actually banned all use of Palm Oil just a few years ago which was a smart move..good on them.

I just changed my profile pic for new years eve to an original pic from Holdens' archives in 1977...If it makes anyone have a giggle then its done its job 🙂

great chatting with you 2L85

kind thoughts

Paul

Is there any point seeking professional help?

2L85iblSXm — Sat, 31 Dec 2016 08:20:32 GMT

I admire your determination, Paul. A shout-out to everyone else who has responded as well. I was too overwhelmed initially to tell you all apart!

blondguy said:

You dont waffle at all.

I know what you're saying, but it's not quite what I meant. I could have filled an entire other 2500 characters with my what I've observed on this forum alone. I said before that I'm a misanthrope who could not tolerate certain people here, but I've since found others in similar situations and am literally feeling their emotional pain.

I don't know how that's even possible given that online tests tell me I might have Asperger's. I can't remember ever feeling sorry for someone else. But here I am, potentially days from death, worrying about people I don't even know. I'm a mess.

My doctor seems pretty switched on. I told him I wish I was dead and he shrugged it off, so maybe I can trust him with what I really feel. I plan to print this thread out for him to peruse in his own time.

Enough about me. Did KFC really use palm oil? Chicken is pretty high in saturated fat as it is. That said, while palmolein puts a bad taste in my mouth (and I do try to avoid it), I can't help but wonder if those orangutans wouldn't be better off if they where wiped from existence. Humans suck. If you were an orangutan would you want to share a planet with us?

No plans for tonight (something I wanted to comment on previously), but there's an entire subreddit dedicated to why I couldn't be happier that this year is almost over. Haven't showered today and only bothered to get out of bed to post here.

Is there any point seeking professional help?

blondguy — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 03:15:10 GMT

Hey 2L85

Hope you have more to look forward to in 2017. You deserve to!

If I can quote something you wrote that was GOLD;

2L85 said "My doctor seems pretty switched on. I told him I wish I was dead and he
shrugged it off, so maybe I can trust him with what I really feel. I
plan to print this thread out for him to peruse in his own time"

This is great stuff 2L85....Whether a sufferer is in their teens or their '70s we do suggest that they copy their thread and just hand it to their doc as it is just so much easier and less stressful too.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by providing your trust 🙂

If memory serves...KFC put out a press release circa 4-5 years ago that they have ceased using this crap.

My mum is 86...drinks 2liters of unhomogenized milk/day ...eats cheese....eats butter while she cooking....eats Pizza, KFC...smokes 50 smokes/day and she is in great health with a recent lung function test that came up perfect...seriously

I eat properly but I think that genetics play a huge part in illnesses and our lifespan. Huge amounts of ongoing chronic stress (years of it) also is a huge heart stopper. (just my opinion from what I have experienced in life)

thanks for posting too

you are not alone on this road of pot holes 2L85

Paul

Is there any point seeking professional help?

2L85iblSXm — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 05:08:18 GMT

The title "community champion" doesn't do you justice. You're a legend.

blondguy said:

My mum is 86...drinks 2liters of unhomogenized milk/day ...eats cheese....eats butter while she cooking....eats Pizza, KFC...smokes 50 smokes/day and she is in great health with a recent lung function test that came up perfect...seriously

LOL. The cigarettes are the least carcinogenic thing on that list, believe it or not, so I'm not at all surprised by the outcome.

Most people would think I'm talking out my rear end when I say stuff like that, but most MDs are quite ignorant when it comes to nutrition. They only know what what the studies (funded by pharmaceutical companies, of course) tell them.

There are a few famous doctors who know better though. John McDougall and Michael Greger spring to mind. Dr Greger is awesome. He is so pro-fitness that he does YouTube interviews while walking on a treadmill! He has a very resourceful website and has written a book or two.

Not really sure why I mention this. I figure this thread has already run its course, so there's not much harm drifting off-topic.

I eat properly but I think that genetics play a huge part in illnesses and our lifespan. Huge amounts of ongoing chronic stress (years of it) also is a huge heart stopper. (just my opinion from what I have experienced in life)

Totally agree. Can't overcome your genetics, but lifestyle factors play a much bigger role than some people realise. Stress is right up there with cholesterol as a "heart stopper". Isn't if funny that we only have one heart, yet two of practically everything else?

The last couple of days have dragged on. I need my mother out of the country, so I can finally get some help. She's probably worried about me already. I don't know what to tell her when she leaves in a day or two. It'll be the end of me, psychologically if not physically, if this ruins her holiday.

I'm actually not a nice guy. I don't understand why I'm suddenly beginning to care about the feelings of others.

Is there any point seeking professional help?

Sam9466 — Mon, 02 Jan 2017 13:41:14 GMT

I went to a professional years ago, it didn't help, I felt like all I was doing was talking and he was there just staring down the clock till he got paid and I left. It was related to being unemployed as well. I found that getting a job helped me mentally. If you're struggling to find employment perhaps try and expand your job search.

Is there any point seeking professional help?

blondguy — Mon, 02 Jan 2017 20:51:51 GMT

Hey 2L85

Thanks heaps for the mega compliment..you have made my day 🙂

Posts dont have a use by date necessarily. Even if you just want to have a gasbag about anything is fine. Sometimes I get a wave of depression and getting on here can be a huge help even just to have a vent

You are so right about us having one heart and two of everything else...weird how we were put together.

You seem like a good person who actually does care about others. Sometimes those ugly dark clouds block our vision....like walking around with a heavy blanket over us.......its so hard to find our way let alone think about others as we are just trying to cope on a day to day basis.

You are a good son by not telling your mum 2L85....at the moment...when the time is comfortable...you will know

You have huge strength (and a heart) by being so honest with your apology to the mods. That takes guts. Nice1

I might have a sticky in there and see whats happening just out of interest.

2L85 said: "Everyone here who has overcome a mental illness needs to know something:
You survived. What worked for you, won't work for everyone. Those who are gone will never have their story heard"

Great to have you on the forums 2L85! I hope you can stick around

you will never be alone here

Paul

Is there any point seeking professional help?

2L85iblSXm — Tue, 03 Jan 2017 02:47:54 GMT

Sam9466 said:

I went to a professional years ago, it didn't help, I felt like all I was doing was talking and he was there just staring down the clock till he got paid and I left. It was related to being unemployed as well. I found that getting a job helped me mentally. If you're struggling to find employment perhaps try and expand your job search.

That's what I'm afraid will happen to me. Talking to a stranger won't change the facts. Centrelink obligations don't have a statute of limitations. I'll have them on my back again as soon as that medical certificate expires. I'll get ugly.

Back when JobActive was called Job Network, I went on Centrelink's personal support programme to get away from my provider's psychologist. I had no job search requirements, just had to visit a different psychologist once a month (instead of once a week).

My old mutual obligations went straight back into effect after that wasted year. I soon became a daily drinker.

I got a job a few months later and became a weekend-only drinker, but I was back to my old level in a few years.

The GFC sent the company into financial panic mode. Staff were made redundant the instant workload dropped but, when things picked up again, it would take several weeks before they'd start interviewing new hires. Maintenance took a hit. It was taking more and more effort to get the same amount done.

I needed a break to recover from injuries before they became permanent, but a colleague with worse injuries than mine had to take time off too. There was nobody to pick up the slack, so I postponed my break. Management wasn't hiring because they kept thinking he'd be back soon. But there was complication after complication.

Everyone there was injured to some extent.

It eventually got to the point where I realised that the only way I would ever heal was if I took so much time off that I wouldn't have a job to go back to. I quit. I left town so I wouldn't be tempted to return.

If that's what employment is about, it's not worth it. I don't want a job anymore. Maintaining my own existence has become a chore. What's the point in earning your keep if all it gets you is kept? People work too hard and long to survive. They waste their whole lives working for the comforts that make them a little less miserable. You can't take any of it with you though.

The extra money I had from working didn't buy me any happiness. It's a sucker's game.

Is there any point seeking professional help?

2L85iblSXm — Tue, 03 Jan 2017 03:54:04 GMT

blondguy said:

You are a good son by not telling your mum 2L85....at the moment...when the time is comfortable...you will know

I'm worried it will backfire though. Her sister knows the signs of depression. There's a chance my mother is already worried she'll return to find a corpse. I'm more worried she'll return to an empty house instead. That my problems are bad enough that'll I'll be separated from contact and she won't know what's happened.

Roaming charges are obscene. She won't be answering the phone for me (it'll be text and email), much less a number she doesn't recognise.

I've read about how psychologically abusive some "treatments" can be. If anything stops me keeping up the charade that everything is fine I may never recover. It would be worse for her than if I died because it would deny her the ability to move on.

I might be overreacting to the severity of my problems, but I've been reading the threads of others here, looked into the symptoms of their conditions, and am worried things may go deeper than simply being sick of life being a meaningless struggle.

I'm afraid I'll be pressured, forced even, to have my body and mind polluted. My philosophies are every bit as important as a religion. I won't be me anymore if my beliefs are violated.

I've self-managed this for decades. The problem is people like me are incompatible with society. I'm perfectly fine, without any external help, when I can be myself. Society can't handle people like me and pressures me to be like everyone else. That's what triggers me.

It goes back to Merton's Strain Theory that BluBelle mentioned. I can see there's something wrong with society. That things could be better for everyone. A few powerful people don't like that idea and want my kind out of the way.

Great to have you on the forums 2L85! I hope you can stick around

you will never be alone here

It's a good thing I ordered a spare set of toner cartridges a couple of months ago. I'll need 'em!