topic Crying, a gauge to our mental strength? in Depression

Crying, a gauge to our mental strength?

white knight — Tue, 31 Jan 2017 04:05:48 GMT

Reaching 60yo l can reflect on my early life and it is clear that my thousands of buckets l could have filled with my tears is in contrast to the period of post 2009. Why?.

Diagnosed in 2009 with bipolar 2,depression, dysthymia and dwindling anxiety meant the correct medication was prescribed. From then on it was more a case of fine tuning dosages.

Last week l had the trauma of my youngest daughter leaving my life. She's 24yo and l have been tormented by this development BUT, I havent shead a tear. I feel it is a reflection of my newfound mental strength. Yes she has come and gone in my life but that fact doesnt mean it comes easy to cope with.

What else could it be?. After much analysis l think acceptance of what life really is has helped.

Life is not what we plan it to be nor wished. As kids we drew rainbows but not rocks. Life will throw stones, rocks, even boulders- without warning. Is our lack of being able to cope due to us expecting a smooth road in life? Or do we know life has hurdles but when they arrive its so devastating we have no learned skills to cope with them?

At school we had no lessons in "coping with trauma" or "breaking up with your partner, how to do it with compassion and care" or "depression signs" etc.. even financial planning isnt taught. All these life challenges are learned the hard way.

Some people can approach such challenges easier than others. So if you are sensitive, had a cruel upbringing, family history of mental illness and so on, you might let your tears become streams. Is it an indicator of your mental strength-lack of it?

I suggest it could be. There is no worse feeling imo. That feeling of devastation, worthlessness, failure and mental collapse- crying. However I've known some people equally the same but not crying, with filming over their eyes as if deeply sad without tears so I'm not saying it is the case every time.

If you have had a period of lots of crying, to work closely with your professional mental health expert with medication and therapy. Hopefully you'll improve and your stream of tears will dry up. Mine did so there is hope that your mental strength will return or develop even late in life.

Accepting life has boulders will prepare yourself for them. Sh*t happens and its out if your control but you can develop strategies to cope better and a mentality that will look at life for what it is and always had been, unpredicable, hurtful but can be wonderful, incredible and more stable

Tony WK

Crying, a gauge to our mental strength?

Boo1986 — Tue, 31 Jan 2017 04:24:43 GMT

Great post Tony WK, very interesting perspective.

I'm 30 years old and have had times where I cried until my body was dehydrated and then just sobbed helplessly for hours more. As a child my father treated crying as a weakness and hurt me deeply when he would accuse me of crying for attention. I went through many years of only crying in private as I didn't want people to judge me, to think I was weak or crying to get their attention. As I have grown older I have dealt with situations far more difficult than during my childhood and often couldn't hold the tears in for long enough to get to be in private when they came.

For me, I think crying is a physiological response which my body actions when my mind can't think of a legitimate solution. If there is a problem that I can fix, I will fix it and not cry about it. If there is a problem I can't fix, I will be either angry or sad, both of which will cause me to respond with tears.

I think that mentally I am not very strong, and as someone who cries a lot I think this is evidence that your theory could be correct. I often feel overwhelmed and struggle with things others may be able to handle with ease.

I find that the more support I get from my psychologist & family & friends although I do still cry quite a bit, it is nothing like the streams of tears which used to last for days when I was younger. As we grow I guess our perspective changes and I have more memories of similar experiences which I have faced and conquered, so I feel more able to cope with the same again. With my medication now balanced, I have not had a long term bout of depression for a few years now which is wonderful. I don't ever want to regress back to that stage and am so proud of how far I have come in the last few years.

I think it is a really valid point you make that schools do not teach some really vital skills. As a qualified teacher I plan to implement your suggestions when I get back into teaching someday, and have always helped my students wherever I could in the past. There is so much more to life than maths...

Thanks for the topic. I think your mind is intriguing and I like to hear your opinions.

xo boo

Crying, a gauge to our mental strength?

white knight — Tue, 31 Jan 2017 11:38:41 GMT

Hi Boo

Fascinating. Quoting you "I don't ever want to regress back to that stage and am so proud of how far I have come in the last few years"

Yes, you've been there done that and you've found a better alternative...

" With my medication now balanced, I have not had a long term bout of depression for a few years now which is wonderful"

Great. You've done well.

My daughter is a teacher at a high school. She doesnt listen to me as much as you do Boo. Lol.

Thanks for your story about crying.

Anyone else please post. These stories help others.

Tony WK

Crying, a gauge to our mental strength?

Guest_1055 — Tue, 31 Jan 2017 14:57:26 GMT

Hi Tony, Boo and anyone else reading.

Crying.......I am not sure if I am mentally strong or not. How does one tell?

Anyway I cry a lot, but it seems to come from emotions. Everything I feel shows on my face. I will cry when I feel sad or happy. I would be the one who cries at weddings, in the movies, the birth of a new baby, at funerals, listening to some sad or inspirational songs and also crying along with someone else who is sad and crying. My crying is mostly silent. ie the tears will just fall.

My grandmother fell down once, and was asking for me. Someone else already gave first aid. Anyway I went to her, I didn't say a great deal, but I had tears in my eyes because she was hurt. I had never seen her cry before or show any emotions. But somehow my tears helped her, as she then had tears in her eyes too. Perhaps she felt not so alone and cared about. And I do believe there is a time to weep.

Many sad tears falling from eyes can be exhausting. But somehow it helps me feel better. Like it releases all the hurt emotions from within. Some people play instruments or sing to get there emotions out. Some may write poetry, stories, paint etc. Me well I often cry....

I think some people are more emotional then others ie they cry more in general, and they experience life a lot looking through emotional eyes rather than logic. The emotional sometimes bypasses the thinking/ mental side. That's me a lot of the time, feel first, then think later. Maybe it is a personality thing as well or something. Don't forget hormones racing around can make you teary as well. Even lack of sleep.

Thanks Tony...

Shell xx

Crying, a gauge to our mental strength?

white knight — Tue, 31 Jan 2017 22:51:16 GMT

Hi shell

Great honest reply and so appreciated

Quoting you "I think some people are more emotional then others ie they cry more in general, and they experience life a lot looking through emotional eyes rather than logic"

Yes, yes, yes. That was me. I was just how you are. I must say though, in that daily state l wasnt as happy as l am now. If l cried about my daughter leaving my life I'd end up with headaches and try all sorts of ways to get her back like writing letters but in reality she'd take that as harassment.

In my new found less emotional more calculating mentality l accept things better.

Your example of your grandmother falling. If that was me I'd still be emotional but unlikely shead tears if that makes sense.

You are a caring soul Shell.

Tony WK

Crying, a gauge to our mental strength?

Jugglin_Strugglin — Wed, 01 Feb 2017 04:59:37 GMT

Hi, The scientist is me found this an intriguing topic. I used to cry a lot. But now I am all cried out. I've gone from the sublime to the ridiculous.....for over 1/2 my life I would cry at the drop of a hat and now I feel like I have a heart of stone. It is now a rare thing if I cry. It is always in private, but I feel so much better afterwards. So I wish I could cry more, but it just won't happen. I can only put it down to life's experiences. I suffered many losses from an early age (no living relatives other than my son), and now have worked in very emotional jobs and maybe it is my brains defence strategy to not cry now. Or have I just experienced & seen too much?

One very interesting phenomena I've noticed is the power of the media....Tv or movies specifically. I deal with very sad situations a lot of the time at work. I often wish I could 'well up' in order to show my empathy (it is there) or just so I don't seem like a hard b****. But it won't happen. But if I watch a tv show with the same situation, I can be in tears after being invested in a story for only a few minutes. It was not only me, but colleagues who also had this experience regularly. The psychological implications are fascinating.

The medical geek in me led me to look at 'crying' on Wiki. There were lots of facts and hypotheses I found interesting. Perhaps some of you may too, so I'll briefly summarise some of it on the next post. Don't know if it will be relevant to anyone, but I did learn a few things.

Food for thought about our emotions.

Lee!

Crying, a gauge to our mental strength?

Jugglin_Strugglin — Wed, 01 Feb 2017 05:49:12 GMT

CRYING

There are 3 types of tears : Basal; lubricate the eye. Reflexive; response to irritants. Psychic; expelled in an emotional state.

There is a known neuronal connection between the tear gland & the 'emotion' brain areas.

Emotional tears have a different chemical composition. They have more hormones, including stress hormones, + potassium & manganese.

The 'average' woman cries 30-64 times a year for about 6mins. Males 6-17 times for 2-4min There is no difference between genders before adolescence!

In very early times, tears were seen as the purging of excess humurs from the brain.

About function: as a reaction to pain, to elicit altruistic behaviour from others, is a mechanism to eliminate excess stress hormone when levels are too high (so feel better after cos stress levels are lower). Blurred vision from crying can handicap aggressive/defensive actions & may function as a signal of appeasement, need or attachment. Crying shows vulnerability & submission to an attack, solicits sympathy & aid and signals a shared emotional attachment.

Sad crying is reaching out to be THERE; to the past with regret or the future with dread.

Joyful crying is acknowledging being HERE; as a response to a moment as if it is eternal.

In religion: In Buddhist monks it is considered an exaggerated, unskillful & selfish emotion

In Muslims it is a sign or expression of true love, especially to a martyred leader.

In Christians it is a sign of genuine repentance & is usually desirable.

In animals: Charles Darwin studied this in a book "The expressions of the emotions in man and animals". He found at London Zoo, the Indian Elephants shed tears in sorrow.

So now I've BORED you to tears???

There's many comments I could make about some of these facts. Just made me think about a lot of different things. Must be missing study, perhaps it's time to put some energy into a course or something. Psych sounds interesting to me know....it'd be great to know how the brain ticks or even just to be able to hear the alarm bells!

Thanks for post, Tony ....and then I started thinking about what has been mentioned about education, (NO, not googling) but can't agree more. Please go back to teaching Boo, the kids need you!

Crying, a gauge to our mental strength?

white knight — Wed, 01 Feb 2017 10:36:44 GMT

Jugglin' Strugglin'

Thankyou, that was educational.

Tony WK

Crying, a gauge to our mental strength?

Boo1986 — Wed, 01 Feb 2017 21:45:52 GMT

Thanks so much Lee, I'll do my best. I really needed that today, very much appreciated xo

Crying, a gauge to our mental strength?

Jugglin_Strugglin — Wed, 01 Feb 2017 22:07:25 GMT

Thanks Tony WK & Boo

i was worried that I took the post off-topic: a gauge to our mental strength. But the facts posed a few interesting thought patterns for me. I found it thought provoking how crying has been perceived differently to various groups & people throughout the ages.

I think I am mentally stronger now, and find it difficult to cry. I wish I was more like the young me, and able to 'get it out of my system' cos it must be healthier.

20+yrs ago, it was seen as a weakness for men to cry, but it seems the tide turned when Bob Hawke cried, then it was almost encouraged.

Now crying seems to be seen as healthy, attuned to self, empathetic, not to be ashamed of.

It is amazing that our brains can decipher all of nuances of emotion that accompany somebody else crying, there are so many different types of cries.

Lee!

Crying, a gauge to our mental strength?

gld — Wed, 01 Feb 2017 23:35:59 GMT

TEARS! purge the bad, rejoice the happiness, empathise to be supportive, so keep up the crying for growth.

Crying, a gauge to our mental strength?

white knight — Thu, 02 Feb 2017 07:33:38 GMT

Lee, dont worry if you go off topic. Its relaxing here to just let your mind flow.

"Different types of cries". .. this is why this forum is soooo successful. Along comes a post that resonates with a few simple words.

Emotionally immature in my early years l had to hide as a 17,18,19yo airman to shead tears. From 21-24yo it was harder working in the notorious Pentridge jail. Fellow officers joined my tears for weakness, so wrong. I was as hardened as them against the confrontations but at times the stories of the horrendous crimes was too sad to not "feel" for the victims.

But l want to share something with you. Shell touched on it earlier. When l would cry at the "drop of a hat" l had a deep respect and feel for the reality of life, its bare bones stuff. Hard to describe but as we go to work, drive in traffic, be parents and live our lives we are disconnected with other basics of life. Some dont think about our passed loved ones or where we are in the universe, or that parrot we nursed to good health that was found. Well most people dont...but we do- why?

I'd say we do overload our minds with sad events because we are mentally unwell. Our minds are programmed short or long term in a state that is pointed towards such events of high emotion.

It would be the reason friends havent got the patience for our chosen topics of conversation. For they are on a "living for now" mind of daily routines and we are on that emotional Roller coaster.

It makes sense to me because l can only write sad poetry when I'm depressed.

Tony WK

Crying, a gauge to our mental strength?

Jugglin_Strugglin — Thu, 02 Feb 2017 08:48:26 GMT

Yes , yes , yes

I did reply to a post today saying much the same, but the Internet was against me & it floats in cyber air.

I commented on how I have heard people with bipolar say they would not change it, cos the pros outweigh the cons. (I don't have bipolar, ONLY depression with occasional anxiety). That got me thinking that, though I would wish my depressive episodes didn't last as long..up to 10 yrs, sigh....I am thankful for the emotional insight it gives me. I see others who go thru life unthinking, almost seemingly unfeeling, and I have gratitude that I do 'feel' deeply and so hopefully can then appreciate and learn more from life ups & downs.

You have said it so much more eloquently. No doubt that your poetry is great.

There IS a benefit to everything we experience.

Lee!

Crying, a gauge to our mental strength?

Jugglin_Strugglin — Thu, 02 Feb 2017 09:07:13 GMT

Tony, isn't it amazing how things can resonate between us when we do let the mind flow. It is a great topic, my thoughts were encompassing all of the last few posts from when I 1st googled.

It is so wonderful to connect with so many like-minded people on here. I share my life with my son & his dad who are both 'healthy'. I'd often thought it was a male thing or just that I was too deep. It is heartening to know that other men can 'feel' too.

Lee

Crying, a gauge to our mental strength?

Croix — Thu, 02 Feb 2017 09:53:30 GMT

Dear Tony~

Thank you for this thread. I never really understood crying, still don't I suppose. I was brought up in post-war Britain in an atmosphere where males did not cry - full stop. I learned my lesson well from early age. Neither physical injury (ok to acknowledge) nor emotional hurt (most definitely not ok to acknowledge) brought forth tears. I thought I would never cry - ever.

And that was that.

I remember some 30 years ago whilst in PTSD crisis a strange crushing hurt in my chest, gasping heaving breath, I cried with racking sobs. I did not know why then, I still don't. It hurt, it was frightening, it was alien, it was beyond my control. It kept happening. Then these sessions became less frequent and stopped.

Now, some 30 years later, whilst inside this Forum, the little world of text, tragedy, heroism and humanity I've started crying again. Not often, but sometimes. A gentle welling up of tears with tightened throat, obscuring my reading or typing. It can be because of memories of hurt that posts have evoked, sometimes it is the plight or kindnesses of others here.

I've no real idea why, I've no real idea how I'm changing, though I know I am. I do know it is not a threat.

Croix

Crying, a gauge to our mental strength?

white knight — Thu, 02 Feb 2017 12:16:41 GMT

Thankyou all. Great insight. Croix, my father had the same non crying upbringing/environment. I missed it by 10 years or more. The following is relevant to that.

Lee, it is rare men talk about these things. I'm determined to break that mould.

We have a poetry site here that some of my poems are printed. I have around 250 now. But as a prime example of the highs and the lows of bipolar moods and my depressive emotions, the following poems show the contrast. I have written only two poems in the last 12 months due to my stability and less emotional times.

The first poem is in grief following my fathers passing but is no different to other poems when in sadness and crying. The second poems is in happiness.

TO KISS HIS TEMPLE

There were some things I knew as taboo

to express my love but to question who?

to touch the pale face of my dad back then

when touching taboo...when "men were men"

For boys were male and "you cant do that"

jealous of my sister and that is that

that man couldnt hug his son for how he was seen

nowadays if you hugged your son- well, you'd be relieved.

And so my dad the salt of the land

wouldnt touch me even by hand

he knew he loved me and I him

with a wink of an eye from under his brim

Then that day we all regret came along

where watery eyes was met by song

and there he lie with an eerie smile

I be alone with him for just a while.

As I stroked his forehead cool to touch

I raised my head automatically as such

to kiss his temple of which I dare

I knew his mind was well aware.

Of all the kisses I missed

they gathered together in just one kiss

finally as his spirit rose and went

he left his love and hugs were spent

I never craved again heart be blessed

that tradition of males their love expressed

a kiss on his forehead way back then

ended an era when "men were men"....

Tony WK

THE BLACK WIDOW

The male black widow spider tried all his life

He tried to tickle the hairy legs of his larger black widow wife

Then one day success, one to glout

She began to laugh aloud, as his leg slid down her throat

Poor male black widow was always going to get into strife

All because he couldn't understand, the nature of his hairy wife....

Tony WK

Crying, a gauge to our mental strength?

Croix — Thu, 02 Feb 2017 12:23:02 GMT

Thank you Tony

-C

Crying, a gauge to our mental strength?

blondguy — Thu, 02 Feb 2017 14:15:43 GMT

Hi Tony

Before my first 'Mega' anxiety attack I had in 1983, I was teary at even the slightest sad/emotional event...even after watching "Somewhere In Time' with Christopher Reeve & Jane Seymour in 1980.

I never saw the writing on the wall that I was 'over sensitized' before my nervous system introduced me to my first terrifying panic attack when I was in traffic.

I hope you dont mind me quoting a piece of your thread topic Tony

TonyWK Said: "If you have had a period of lots of crying, to work closely with your
professional mental health expert with medication and therapy. Hopefully
you'll improve and your stream of tears will dry up"

I didnt know what anxiety/panic was in 1983....

I dont like 'What If's' but I wish I knew to see a GP back then...A Motorola carphone unit cost $4700-00 and was mounted in the boot with the phone in a cradle near the gearshift attached to a cord....Even with Technology moving ahead in 1983 the words 'mental health' didn't exist.....It was a woeful period where mental health was concerned...and ignored.....for shame

I hope this has helped Tony

trying to pick up the pieces here

My Best

Paul

Crying, a gauge to our mental strength?

Just Sara — Thu, 02 Feb 2017 22:44:08 GMT

Hi Tony and all;

What a great topic! Crying, or lack of it, comes with mental health territory. We don't normally talk about it on here so this thread is a fantastic opportunity to share.

Lee...I've taken a screen shot of your Crying Info; great reference material! Thanks heaps!

I've cried buckets since my son was born 26 yrs ago. The most memorable was after disclosing childhood sexual abuse to my sister at 35.

The emotion came out of nowhere. Not only did I sob, I was convulsing uncontrollably. It was completely organic and without choice. My face was contorted and my nose was dripping into my mouth which was really embarrassing. My sister gave me tissues then gazed at me with raised eyebrows without murmuring a word until it was over.

We release tears for many reasons undoubtedly as individual as we all are; that day I rid myself of a secret (and feared consequences of saying 'it' out loud) I'd hidden since 11 yrs old. After my sister left, she went straight to my mums and told her. She then told her husband; he told the 'offending' (family) perpetrator, who came to my home without warning. I had some type of abdominal attack and was admitted into hospital where nobody came to see me. My mum and sister didn't speak to me for 18 months.

I do regret telling 'her' my secret, but I don't regret those uncontrollable tears. That absolute relief was worth all the grief that followed. It changed my world insurmountably, especially learning that the power of shedding grief and pent up emotion can set me free.

That was 22 yrs ago; I've had some really potent crying episodes since, though none quite like that. Every now and then, I get 'that' feeling; it tells me there's more to come so I give myself permission to let it out, even though I might not know why until it's over.

Whew...that was hard.

Sara

Crying, a gauge to our mental strength?

Snowbear — Thu, 02 Feb 2017 23:23:45 GMT

Hi All,

Great insight Tony. I have wondered similar myself. I don't cry very much, only when I feel acceptance in my struggle but I will save my story for another time. Devastation is a hard pill to swallow but I do it anyway and eventually the pain catches up with me. Before last year my husband seen me cry twice in 9 years. In the last 10 months we've lost count. Denial has been my strength and I am working on this, I am 10 months in. While psychically exhausted I feel emotional relief through crying it doesn't happen daily or weekly but when it does happen its like flood gates have been opened and I feel I have allowed myself to really feel and accept it, if that makes sense?