topic Anger and depression in Depression

Anger and depression

Clues_Of_Blue — Wed, 11 May 2016 12:07:54 GMT

Something that has come up recently in conversations for me is anger. There are so many resources regarding managing or controlling anger, or about what to do when it is visited upon you by others, but what about the matter of simply possessing it, and what it does to us? I have no trouble controlling anger in its outward expression. For me, that is the problem. I've spent so much time repressing it, it's on automatic mute. And do you know what that does? It burrows in and turns on me. I'm finding it's a huge catalyst for my depression, as it just skips the venting phase almost entirely and goes straight to self-destruction. I'm willing to bet I'm not the only one here that happens to.

My little epiphany a day or two ago was this: I have a right to my anger. We all do. There are things in everyday life that make us angry. There are huge and abnormal circumstances that cause us rage. Whether it's justified or not, we feel what we feel, but it's like any sort of expression of that these days is some kind of massive taboo. Of course I'm not endorsing taking it out on your loved ones, or beating up the guy who stuffs up your change at the servo. But I've found that just talking about it, so many people will laugh it off, or try to redirect it, or tell you to calm down, or it will be okay, and all that sort of stuff. At what point did we lose the right to express anger in any way whatsoever?

This thread is for us to discuss our anger. Vent. Talk about what really grinds our gears, and about any way in which anger has impacted our lives and our depression. To share ways we know of letting out our anger without hurting anyone. I could certainly use some advice on getting it out, and some help with getting out of that automatic habit of turning it in on myself. Anything you have to share on the subject, this is the place for it.

Anger and depression

Paul — Wed, 11 May 2016 20:47:55 GMT

Hey Blue's Clues.

This is a great topic and an awesome way for all of us to learn about anger.

in my own experience if anger is not "dealt with" it can be redirected. Road rage is a prime example where the rage is extraordinarily large and not really about the small incident that triggered it.

For most of us, dealing with anger means something destructive. Abuse, yelling etc but generally this is just a pressure relief.

Here's an awesome way to accept anger, own it and deal with it:

Name it: When we have anger, its important to name it in our mind. "I'm angry" or even better "That's anger". By saying "That's anger" we can keep a distance from it but still own it.

Claim it: Once identified and hopefully held just outside of our mind as, let's say a red glowing ball named anger, we can then look at the other events, emotions and thoughts that visited before and after.

Give it away: Build a sequence of events that led to this red anger ball and step through slowly. Here's where looking at what we are saying to ourselves about being angry is helpful. some examples. "He did the wrong thing by me", "I feel like I'm going to miss out now", "It's his/her fault I'm like this", "I was so frightened I could have lost..." Hopefully you see a theme. Loss, fear, blame etc and a subject, another person or a thing.

Giving it away is done in your mind only. This is where you give the red ball of anger to that incident or person in your mind. I usually accompany it with "This red ball belongs there"

A working example:

You and your young child/nephew/niece etc are about to cross the road. Your young loved one lets go of your hand and starts to run out on to the road. Adrenaline kicks in, you hear tyres screech you have extreme fear and you scoop up the young one. The next natural reaction is anger. You might even yell at your young one and then cuddle them.

Fear, action, anger.

My name, claim, give away would go like this.

Name: It was anger when I retrieved my young one

Claim: I felt fear because I thought I was going to lose them. Then I was relieved they were safe. I was angry because I thought I was going to lose something precious.

Give away: The anger belongs to the incident, the natural progression of emotions that protect our loved one and ourselves at the same time. The anger doesn't belong to me and doesn't belong to my loved one and doesn't belong to the driver who screeched tyres. It belongs to the incident as a protection mechanism.

Regards

Paul

Anger and depression

blondguy — Wed, 11 May 2016 21:20:35 GMT

Hey Blue

What a terrific topic! This will get the attention it deserves.

Pauls clarity is a gift to read. He mentioned the chemical link from adrenaline to anger and since anxiety/depression does seem to 'run' on adrenaline he has articluated 'anger' well here.

I think that several years of dealing with depression can also bring frustration into the equation which for me is the step prior to anger.

Just for me using 'true and calm acceptance' (after I mastered it) brings a sense of peace that was very very difficult to find. I had to learn over many years that the anxiety symptoms were really only feelings and even accepting that a dark day will pass.

I find that my warning sign of becoming frustrated can be dissipated by serious physical output in my steep gardens...This usually burns up the early warnings of any pending anger.

Interesting how some peace can be achieved by acceptance of the illness which can lower the catalyst for anger being the adrenaline and grr frustration we have in our lives.

Nice1 Blue 🙂

Kind Thoughts & Acceptance

Paul

Anger and depression

Clues_Of_Blue — Thu, 12 May 2016 14:05:47 GMT

Thanks to both of you for your constructive and encouraging replies. The whole name it, claim it and give it away routine sounds pretty practical. I guess I've done something similar with other emotions - I'm nothing if not good at detaching and analysing - but haven't had quite the same success with anger. It's good to see that written up so plainly.

I agree also that years of depression causes a huge amount of frustration and contributes to anger, and that physical activity can help burn off some of that negative energy.

I guess the trouble for me is recognising my anger for what it is, in the first place. For those who haven't read my other thread, my ex didn't cope at all well being around anger, even if it wasn't directed at him. His reasons were good and I'm not having a go at him, but I was with him for a long time, and in trying not to scare or hurt him I became exceedingly good at internalising my anger. I'd blow off a little steam, grumble about a thing and think I was done with it, but the rest would sink down, and I wouldn't even realise that's what it was. But the inability to really communicate my anger or resolve the situation at the root of it would eat at me and turn to hurt and sadness, and evolve into a depressive episode that could last for days or weeks.

That process has become so automatic that I struggle to know my anger for what it is to begin that process of naming, claiming and so on. And when I do recognise it in a situation I can't easily resolve, I still find it a problem getting that emotion out of my system, and being allowed to communicate it without others trying to shut it down or treat it as something that is invalid.

This thread is not just for dealing with anger in and by ourselves, but in giving permission to myself and any one of you for it to be expressed. To simply say "I am angry and I have a right to be", to talk through the source of that anger and know that it's okay to feel it and express it without being judged. I don't mean yelling or abusing anyone, just talking about the feeling itself and what's causing it. I think we all need that outlet, and just to be heard. There is a growing acceptance for expressing sadness, but in my observation anger is still very much frowned upon, even if it's discussed respectfully.

Anger and depression

blondguy — Thu, 12 May 2016 14:22:42 GMT

I just read your recent post and your last paragraph is duly noted 🙂

My younger brother is quiet which I accept ...as thats the way he is. I am the black sheep in this family and it does bug me that I can have a better conversation with the console operator at the local BP than my own brother who is 53 going on 18. I do accept him the way he is but I just dont 'get it' that he is deeply private/secretive that I may as well be speaking to someone in the north pole on skype.

I really dont get that angry anymore Blue...but that does 'bug' me....Oh....and gold diggers....now that presses the anger button....or frustration button especially being single...grr

Great topic Blue...

Paul x

Anger and depression

Clues_Of_Blue — Thu, 12 May 2016 15:18:32 GMT

I'm glad you shared that, Paul. I completely get why your relationship with your brother bugs you. I mean, a sibling is the one (in most cases) who grows up with you, sees what you've been through and experiences a lot of it with you. It's such an important relationship, so why wouldn't you want to be close? Have you told him you wish he'd be more open and communicative with you?

For me, the two biggest anger triggers are dishonour and disrespect. Gold diggers indulge both those behaviours, so they don't exactly impress me, either.

The rage-inducing thing for me at the moment is my neighbour: huge amounts of noise ("music") that disrupt my sleep almost every day, tantrums when I ask him to turn it down, just the outright disrespect and disregard, and the idea he thinks he's so important that he can act however he likes no matter how it impacts someone else.

This is something I can't take responsibility for. It's not like my choices leading to a not-so-great job, which I can work to change. It's not like my choice in partner that went wrong, a thing I rectified by leaving. It's not something I can walk away from, and I have been unable to get anywhere with reason and respectful communication.

I'm angry that he thinks it's okay to treat someone like that. I'm angry that I have to take it further when it could be resolved with the slight turn of a knob. I'm angry that bringing in police or the council or whatever is probably going to turn into a big drama that will further damage my peace, that it will likely be another huge fight on top of so many others. I'm angry that after all my hard work keeping the house after I left the ex, this disrespectful person is trying to drive me out of that house and is so badly undermining everything I try to do to help my mental health. I'm just so, so ridiculously angry. And it's valid, and I'm tired of being treated like it isn't. I'm angry about that, too.

So there you go, that's my vent.

Anger and depression

blondguy — Thu, 12 May 2016 15:50:05 GMT

Hey Blue

I have communicated with my brother about his peripheral style of conversation. He is very quiet and secretive and I cant change that. He just looks at me with a Norman Bates sort of look. I will always keep an eye out for him though because he is my bro but he lives 2klms away and we see each other twice a year. I am a young 56 and he is nearly 54.

I read about your neighbor Blue....Has he heard of a teenie invention called wireless headphones? They have just been out for about 10 years! I do feel for you seriously....I paid extra for this steep block of land in 1990. I now have a quiet couple in their 40's on one side and a couple in their 30's on the other that are quiet and I might as well be living in the outback...

I am a bit guilty sometimes of playing my daggy 80's music too much...but never obnoxiously loud...I have Terry Jacks on now with 'Seasons in the Sun'.....but even though the sound system can power a party in a school gymnasium I wont crank it up during the day or night during weekdays/nights. Maybe Friday/Sat nights..but thats it.

I would get pretty aggro if I was in your situation though Blue.....grr

Anger and depression

Clues_Of_Blue — Thu, 12 May 2016 16:16:37 GMT

Thanks for the understanding, and just listening to my rant. My other neighbours are fine, it's just this one guy making life hell. Sounds like you're pretty lucky with yours... And if I just had the occasional bout of daggy 80s music to worry about from anyone nearby, I'm sure it wouldn't bother me at all.

It's a shame about things with your brother. For a long time, though she lived close, I didn't see much of my sister, and that sucked. She's pretty quiet and withdrawn, doesn't like to trouble anyone with her problems, and was married to someone who used her, and was very controlling and abusive. Her stress made her even more withdrawn. Thankfully over time I was able to see her more, and encourage her to come out of her shell a bit and be around people that were better for her self-esteem. She left him, thankfully, and I'm able to see her a lot more, so we have a much closer relationship than we did. Not the same thing, but I have a grasp of the frustration of not being able to get through to a sibling. Do you just have one brother, or any other siblings?

Anger and depression

blondguy — Thu, 12 May 2016 16:40:40 GMT

Sister 49 and my brother...My mum and dad seperated after 49 years of marriage about 10 years ago which was a huge relief...too much pain for everyone....I am a staff trainer and corporate senior dude ...at the moment..but the care factor is dissipating ...oh dear

Anger and depression

Clues_Of_Blue — Thu, 12 May 2016 17:07:36 GMT

I was relieved when my parents parted ways, as well. They were so bad for each other. Was very young at the time, though, and there was a big, messy custody battle. Parents playing tug-of-war with kids makes me mad, too. My brother and I were separated from Sis for a time, and that was bad for her. Are you and your sister close?

What's making the care factor disappear? Is there something you'd rather be doing? I'm just a grunt for a supermarket, though I have a degree. Not angry about that, really. It's something I would have rectified by now if a fancy job or money were higher on my list of priorities.

Anger and depression

blondguy — Thu, 12 May 2016 17:19:07 GMT

My sister mistreated when she was 4 ...in 1970. The care factor? ummmm....I am so over corporate Australia and the greed...the 'bottom' line ....the Gross Profit....OH&S.....Worksafe......Pointless meetings....I dont see the point anymore and have had too many phone calls from company directors wives saying their husband has passed away in his sleep........in his 40's....and early 50's.....It just not worth the perks anymore blue...I am highly motivated but over the greed.

Anger and depression

Clues_Of_Blue — Thu, 12 May 2016 17:27:04 GMT

I completely understand that. Corporate greed is making my job pretty stressful, too. Constant cutbacks, less and less staff with less and less hours to do the same amount of work or more. They want us to do our jobs properly but threaten us with more cuts to hours if there's evidence in the budget that we're doing it right (like bad quality stock getting thrown out). So we have no-one to serve, no-one to get stock on the shelves, less range and these are the strategies to deal with competition? All we've got is miserable staff and nothing to offer customers. I'm over the greed, too. It's so short-sighted it actually undermines profits. Trained monkey could run things better.

Anger and depression

Paul — Thu, 12 May 2016 17:33:56 GMT

Hey Blue's Clues,

Thanks for the recognition and feedback about the name/claim/give away concept. Nice to know I have expressed it in an easily digestible fashion.

The part I found difficult with it is exactly what you have mentioned. Sometimes we don't even know that it's anger we're dealing with until quite a time after the fact or even recognising anger for what it is.

Here's another tip that I use all the time.

Whenever I feel that twinge of an emotion that has started to bother me, or I feel a spiral coming on, or even if something doesn't feel right, my psych has taught me to "replay the tape"

By "replay the tape" I mean keep tracing back in my mind to when I first felt a shift then start playing the sequence of events and emotions in slow motion - the emotions will emerge and make sense and hopefully you'll be able to spot anger and then analyse from there.

This concept has helped me immensely as I had a tendency to unconsciously skip over a member of a set emotions then wonder what's going on.

I wonder if this might work for you. Also, just being conscious that you find it difficult to recognise anger sometimes will help with recognising anger.

The part where our mind skips over and emotion is a self protection thing. Replaying the recording in SLOW motion really helps to find that part we skipped and then name/claim/give away or even just sit with and allow us to have the emotion as you mention.

I hope this helps.

Paul

Anger and depression

blondguy — Thu, 12 May 2016 17:38:56 GMT

I had to 'escape' lol from working as a relieving manager when Duran Duran were huge and we had no worksafe and no OH&S....We just used common sense.....which is not very common anymore lol. I had several long service relief blocks and I do miss the people contact that I had in retail but I dont miss the hours at all...

Anger and depression

Clues_Of_Blue — Thu, 12 May 2016 18:06:15 GMT

Cheers Paul, I'm really liking your methodical, step-by-step approach. It's funny you should mention "replaying the tape". I did that so many times from so many angles, on this depressive episode (been struggling a lot with my mood for about three weeks), and I came up with a whole bunch of little contributing things. Though it wasn't until someone gave me the whole well-intended "you're fine" thing in response to a grumble I was having that I got mad at him and realised how angry I really was about the thing I was grumbling about. I wasn't fine at all, I didn't like being told I was, and lo and behold there was my reason. Replaying that tape again, I could see the influence of my anger throughout the whole thing, and could easily pick out so many situations that had played out in just the same way.

Now you've given the process a name, that makes it a bit easier again. It's definitely a technique I hope to refine a bit and use often. For starters, slow motion never occurred to me.

It's kind of reassuring to know I'm not the only one who has had trouble recognising my anger. I've come to that conclusion before, but somehow it managed to slip away from me last time, and I don't want that to happen again; hence turning it into a round table discussion to keep the focus on it long enough to really hammer it home. I'm normally really good with self-awareness, but it seems anger has been a bit of a blind spot for me.

Back to the subject of retail... I like the job in itself, just not how compressed it's getting and, as you say, the horrid hours. Back when I started, over a decade ago, OH&S wasn't such a strict thing. We did some silly things, but calculated risks, and we were fine. Still safer than working at the pace we do and with the stress levels we have now. Sadly, the union gives important ground on such things in every new agreement. This is not a good time for employees in Australia.

Anger and depression

blondguy — Thu, 12 May 2016 18:50:11 GMT

Hey Blue, I have to be careful as when someone responds to 'Paul' I think its me lol....and it isnt...The other Paul is here....sorry.

Hi Paul and your amazing beautiful kitty....Your profile pic is made in heaven....I Love it!

Nite Paul & Blue xx

Paul

Anger and depression

Paul — Thu, 12 May 2016 19:00:52 GMT

Nite Paul.

PS That's Maggie, Miss Maggie, Maggie Meerkat or Lady maggie, all depending on her mood. You know cats!

Anger and depression

blondguy — Thu, 12 May 2016 19:12:07 GMT

Dear Paul

Thanks Paul..I am actually a big fan of your posts and I always read and appreciate what you have to say. You have an innate gift of being really super kind to everyone combined with heartfelt intellect to boot!

If you can give Lady Maggie a cuddle for me that would be really nice.

It sounds silly but thankyou for saying goodnight to me....:-)

Paul

Anger and depression

Paul — Thu, 12 May 2016 21:27:02 GMT

Thanks for your kind and encouraging thoughts Paul. I appreciate it.

Sleep tight.

Anger and depression

Clues_Of_Blue — Fri, 13 May 2016 05:26:09 GMT

Maggie Meercat seems appropriate for that picture. Our little beasties have so much personality, don't they? One of my birds is madly flying around the house making an excited racket at the moment. 🙂

Hope you guys slept well. Day off for me, today, so I've had a bit of rest.