topic Re: My brother gives me anxitey! in Anxiety

My brother gives me anxitey!

Olliepop — Tue, 03 Sep 2024 20:02:46 GMT

My brother, middle child, is very pushy and narcissistic.

He always thinks he is right, he always is so judgmental on people, hes rude, he doesn't listen, when we all reach our breaking points, then he pipes down a little bit.

I blame my mother, for never allowing my father to punish him and learn discipline at a young age like my older brother did. She forever covers for him, till this day.

I find the more i avoid him, and a situation he is in the better. We do work together, which isnt easy, but avoiding him throughout the day i have learn how to manage.

I have realized, anything that changes in my life, he over involves himself and sometimes i cant help but feel i have to start defending myself when he starts commenting, or asking too many questions.

Recently, my husband left his job, which he was very unhappy in.

My husband continues to provide, in his own ways, i just don't inform everyone on what he does, which to me is perfectly fine, and its none of anyones business. Were happy. We both have an income. There is nothing to talk about.

My husband purchased me a brand new car, and recently sold my current. My husband is a thinker, if the new car is coming soon, why wait to sell the current when we can manage together getting to and from places, have the funds ready to lay into the new car when its time.

My brother starts commenting, why sell the car before the new one?.. how can you both get around blah blah blah. If we manage, its none of your business. My husband has told my brother he left the previous job, but my brother still asks me acting dumb, and when i get on the defense explaining why things were done, he doesnt reply and ignores me.. in which i stated, you shouldn't judge situations when you dont know first hand how people feel. he snaps back with im not judging but that happens in all workplaces, it happens here, i even do it. For him to hear himself, i dont respond. and then i think he realized what he was saying then goes on pretending he hasn't made me react, so now IM the one who is upset and hes moved on acting all cool. I find the more i try to voice my opinion to make my brother back off, the worse it gets, but its also not okay NOT voicing my opinion too. My brother is easily jealous of situations, who has the better house, who has the better car, and when people move in silence, and he doesnt know whats going on, i believe he doesnt like that.

Some advice on how to handle him please!

Annoyed sister.

Re: My brother gives me anxitey!

white knight — Wed, 04 Sep 2024 05:49:10 GMT

In my travels )I'm 68yo) I've met many people from my Airforce days and my own family. I'm the middle child and have a younger sister but we cant compare as the dynamics are different.

My sister hold her envy in and uses any means taught to her by our estranged mother, to manipulate and divide family members. She sees no wrong in that. Yet 2 years ago it cost us our relationship, its over and I wont take her back. The toxicity is terrible, she wont learn.

That brings me to your situation. Sibling rivalry is one thing but as soon as it begins to get toxic there is only one avenue of choice and that is accepting that you are not compatible and distance yourself a lot. Some people that do that can remain in contact and place boundaries on when they can come over or ring. If they ring too often then dont answer the call, thats pretty easy... you taker control of your life and marriage! Dont allow him to dictate that you should answer or anything else, in effect you are putting down conditions that he normally violates.

Family chemistry is different for every family so you have to design your contact accordingly. At a family bbq for example if someone asks "have you got your new car" and you answer yes, that doesnt mean you are wanting your new car as a large topic of discussion. So if your brother says "I still dont understand why you sold your old car before you got your new one". The secret her eis to ask questions so he realises your decisions are between you and your husband. So you reply "In our marriage we make our own decisions dont you think that is the way it should be"? Anbd each time he answers add more questions. Like- do you make your own decisions? . Do you answer to anyone else?. If I wanted your advice you are only a phone call away.

If he said "you wont ring me for advice" then you say "what does that tell you"... again its a question.

https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/staying-well/wit-the-only-answer-for-torment/td-p/71440

I hope that helps... reply anytime

TonyWK

Re: My brother gives me anxitey!

therising — Wed, 04 Sep 2024 07:10:56 GMT

Hi Olliepop

I think one of the up sides to being sensitive means we can easily get a sense where people are coming from. For example, on one hand (when someone's asking a lot of questions) you can sense someone trying to gain enough information so as to pass judgement. On the other hand they can be asking a lot of questions out of genuine curiosity because good reasons give them the opportunity to relate to the situation better. With some folk, I've found it pays to wonder and express that sense of wonder at them, 'Are you questioning me so as to pass judgement or is it based on the fact you're a reasonable person? Are you able to relate to good reason/s?'. In some cases it pays to just call people out on what they're obviously doing, 'You know, I can sense you judging me. I can feel it, even if you can't. What do you have to gain in this situation by judging?'.

I've heard it said before that some people tend to judge others because it helps them give themself a sense of identity that appeals to them. For example, from their perspective, 'You wasting money defines me as 'someone who's more careful with money'. You not being all that adventurous defines me as 'someone who's more adventurous that you'. You making reckless decisions defines me as 'someone who is a careful, sensible and thoughtful decision maker'' and so on. So it's kinda like 'Whatever you do wrong (in my mind) defines me as 'more evolved than you'. People like that, feeling better than others. You being downgraded or degraded means they become upgraded as a person, in their mind. Hope that makes sense. It gives some insecure people a greater sense of comfort and security.

I can't help but wonder why your mum tended to be more protective of your brother, growing up. Wondering whether he was pretty insecure or maybe quite sensitive as a kid.

Re: My brother gives me anxitey!

smallwolf — Wed, 04 Sep 2024 11:39:00 GMT

hello and welcome.

I'm with you all the way in what you have said about in relation to your brother. And the unfortunate thing is we cannot change our family or how they behave. It sounds like you've figured out that setting some boundaries helps, but it’s still a challenge. And finding a balance between protecting your peace and standing up for yourself isn’t easy, but it’s possible. I would like to think this is wisdom, but it is only the result of spending time with an psychologist and psychiatrist for a number of years! I can share some ideas with you, (like boundaries or "rocking the boat" - putting these here for my own benefit). All you can do is be you 🙂

Listening if you would like to chat more...

Re: My brother gives me anxitey!

Olliepop — Thu, 05 Sep 2024 19:59:19 GMT

Thank you for your support, as always.

If i was to reply back with, in our marriage we make our decisions etc. my brother will relfect it back with the typical "oh i didnt even ask about your marriage.. youre so sensitive" blah blah blah.
I even voiced his comment to my mother, and she replied "oh its okay" even though she knows.. hes in the wrong.

Re: My brother gives me anxitey!

Olliepop — Thu, 05 Sep 2024 20:00:18 GMT

My brother grew up with milk allergies, but ... who cares? hes fine isnt he.

I feel he was favored too as he was named after her father.

He possibly voices opinions too, and my mother doesnt so maybe she admires that.

Pretty sad.

Re: My brother gives me anxitey!

Olliepop — Thu, 05 Sep 2024 20:00:34 GMT

Id love some ideas!

Re: My brother gives me anxitey!

Scared — Fri, 06 Sep 2024 02:08:36 GMT

White knight is right in diagnosis.

Your brother has Toxic personality

Now you know what his condition is I would be straight to the bookshop or library and learning how to protect yourself from toxic people.

I cant think of any condition more draining than what he is.

Whether or not your toxic brother is aware of his condition the point is for whatever reason his role in your life is to suck you dry of all your strength.

Your job is to learn through reading not how to help him but to protect yourself.

This will probably mean major changes on your behalf in your life.

Toxic people get their energy from draining others . I mean its weird that people want to be like a leech.

Its not flattering for the toxic person to act like a blood sucking creature.

I recommend reading not one book but several on the subject to gain a complete picture on what you need to do.

You will find some answers to this to be extreme that I wont mention here and hope you will find through reading your answers. Your brother is going to make you sick so action is needed soon before he does make you sick.

I just escaped from a toxic friend not long ago. Everyday in my ear about global warming doom talk to the point I was getting sicker. But I understood my friend that being a dooms dayer was his passion in life and he got energy from me as his only audience. He was getting stronger while I was fading away

Re: My brother gives me anxitey!

white knight — Fri, 06 Sep 2024 03:12:02 GMT

So true "scared"

With toxic people in our lives we tend to initially in teens and young adulthood, accept that we are a battering ram. We dont realise that for a prosperous and happy life we should exercise our basic rights. Those rights include-

choosing to not answer a call if you dont feel like it
Reducing or cutting off contact as a last resort. This can include or not include family gatherings like xmas. Some will add pressure "but we are family, dont worry about him" and so on. Again its your decision, your conflict, exercise YOUR rights.
Self protection includes not tolerating abuse. Abuse can mean many things under its umbrella but as siblings we tend to not include abuse as a description of their ... abusive behaviour.

Your brother at best might take several years to change if change is indeed possible. It might be an idea to limit your contact with him until such maturity takes place.

As for favouritism from your mother to him, I've experienced this in my ex in-laws. The eldest son of 5 kids was named after the mothers brother that was a victim of WW2. Their mother directly told me "he is my favourite". While I saw how damaging it was to the other 4, nothing would change her mind so I didnt bother. Better to blossom as an adult and allow her to favour him and branch out into the big world out there to find comfort in friends that can sometimes become "family". I did, I have a beautiful non blood mother that shines far more than my own.

TonyWK

Re: My brother gives me anxitey!

therising — Fri, 06 Sep 2024 08:52:27 GMT

Hi Olliepop

I tend to believe people are multifaceted and one of the many facets can be of a self entitled nature. The more it's developed or encouraged to be developed, the stronger it can become. Sometimes it becomes one of the most outstanding facets of a person and one of the most destructive. So, if your mum and others have led your brother to feel somewhat entitled (to say whatever he wants), he'll continue to exercise this part of him around you until you set him straight. I imagine he wouldn't be tapping into this part of himself around people who just wouldn't tolerate it at all, based on there being undesirable consequences for him.

I actually have a family member who can be a little too judgemental, self entitled and over opinionated on occasion. While they've been a part of my life for more than 5 decades, I reached my breaking point some months back. Something in me just snapped. I smile when I say it was like the intolerant upstanding part of me came to the forefront with a take no prisoners and a 'I got this, sister' vibe and just came out with a clear boundary setting '**** YOU!!!'. Needless to say this ended the phone call and shook me up a little. I knew I had it in me but, you know, it's the kind of thing you try to suppress, especially as a people pleaser to some degree. Never in all the years I'd known this person had I ever thrown the F bomb at them. I think it shocked the both of us to tell you the truth but is set a definite boundary and sent a definite message. The message was 'Don't push me. You now know I have a breaking point and you can only push me so far until we both meet with it'.

In no way am I suggesting you throw expletives a person's way, I think it's just a matter of setting a clear line in the sand or creating a boundary that dictates 'You are not as entitled as you may choose to believe, especially around me'. And if a person's self entitled nature is a time waster ( with us wasting our time as we're led to stress, frustration, anger, sadness and so on), the less time spent with them the better. Time invested in more uplifting things and people is time well spent.

Re: My brother gives me anxitey!

tranzcrybe — Sat, 07 Sep 2024 12:03:30 GMT

Not quite on the same page as the consensus here.
This sounds like it goes way way back to childhood sibling rivalry where your brother was favoured over you.
Blame him, blame mother, but ultimately it comes down to how you choose to react to his perceived jibes when anything goes wrong in your lives.

You don't have to explain yourself or defend your husband; just respond to acknowledge his interest and change the subject. If he persists, find a reason to leave the room; but choosing to engage in such petty conflicts/contests just takes you back to being a child again which only rekindles these negative emotions.

Re: My brother gives me anxitey!

smallwolf — Thu, 12 Sep 2024 12:45:23 GMT

In my previous post I asked if I could make a suggestion about setting boundaries...

In your original post it seems your brother tends to overstep boundaries and it is also important to be able to protect your emotional space. You can decide what topics are off-limits for discussion—such as your husband’s job, finances, or personal decisions and make it clear to him that you won’t engage in conversations about these areas. Stick to this boundary, even if it means cutting off a conversation or walking away.

Sometimes, the best way to handle his behavior is by refusing to engage. When you stop defending yourself or explaining your decisions, it sends the message that his opinions don’t hold weight in your life, or make it seem that way.

Setting boundaries can be hard and may leave you feeling guilty. And perhaps you can start small and practice with some small things with people you can trust?

It’s important to prioritize your mental health.

Re: My brother gives me anxitey!

white knight — Fri, 13 Sep 2024 02:25:49 GMT

It appear we all agree that boundaries need to be personally enforced by the OP which is a good sign we are all on the right path to their protection.

This annoying brother grew up favoured and seems to have some level of ownership over his sister (and he enjoys protection from his parent) and regardless of her getting married where normally a brother would back off with his intrusion, he has continued on as if he will always have ownership over her. This is the level of annoyance and lack of respect she has had to endure hence why she has sort help.

So, Olliepop, how you go about enforcing those boundaries is the question and you've had several interesting ideas. I'm a little sceptical that he will listen to your efforts to enforce them, this is a game for him, he actually enjoys niggling at you, displaying doubt that you can push him away successfully and he could even likely double down and continue this abuse of your rights and marital decisions.

So I hope you give us updates as time goes by because this topic is indeed interesting for us here, it allows us to hone our skills over how to approach a topic that is really common where people dont respect such boundaries.

TonyWK

Re: My brother gives me anxitey!

Olliepop — Thu, 10 Oct 2024 20:20:09 GMT

I have loved all this feedback, not one of them has been bad, i appreciate you very much.

WK.. you hit the nail on the head. He just hasn't backed off.

My husband, as shown his boundaries, in which my brother now makes out my husband has the issue.

And like usual, when we were kids, my parents always back his side of things, which then my parents get awkward with me because they too know they have spoken bad about my husband.

My parents love my husband, but when that middle child is mixed in or around us, EVERYTHING just changes, they all do.. like they are afraid of him.

I would never in my right mind, laugh or talk about my SIL to my parents and then pretend to be nice to her face. This is why i just dont understand my brother, and why he would know hes upsetting anyone, especially his only sister.

I have become more resilient... and i see my brother making me feel almost left out to see if ill pull back in, however the left out is possible what i need, the space. But those little shock moments still sting sometimes.

I backed off completely.. he knows, and makes me feel very well that he cant talk about things.. which is sad, why make the situation between us worse, anyway.. i just need to control my emotions and keep up with those boundaries.

The one bit of advice you gave me once, was to tell my brother "sorry you feel that way..." which i believe made him feel stupid in a way, because after that argument, there was nothing to fuel.

Re: My brother gives me anxitey!

Olliepop — Wed, 16 Oct 2024 21:54:41 GMT

Hi friend,

Can confirm... the middle child still pokes the bear.

The fact im more aware of what he does, vs reacting is unbelieveable.

I only react when he has gone too far and i make sure my response is putting him back in line, and sometimes too no reaction makes him realise he wont get what he wants in return.

But i do see him push more and more each day because he isnt getting the response.. the CONS of working with family.

Today i was preparing my self for the "FU** OFFFFFFFFFFFFF" but he stopped before i was able to.

I thought of you! 🙂

Re: My brother gives me anxitey!

white knight — Thu, 17 Oct 2024 04:00:42 GMT

My last partner was a petite lady but could with a few choice words quieten the most aggressive person. I studied this for our full ten years together.

Out of that experience I wrote the thread-

https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/staying-well/wit-the-only-answer-for-torment/td-p/71440

So, say you have been shopping and bought yourself a gift as an award for all the overtime you have been doing. You arrive home and your sibling is actually jealous of you.

"So did you spend all of your money"?

you: "It appears that way doesnt it" (note you arent answering the question as your money isnt their business)

"So you probably havent got enough left for your rent next week then"

You: "Probably" Note how you arent answering their leading question and you are agreeing with them which is not conflicting

"You arent answering my questions"

"because the answers are for me to know". Then walk away.

So here below is a run down of how you might normally answer-

"So did you spend all of your money"?

you: "Yes I did, I'm a bit worried now" (this answer validates their intrusive questioning and encourages more")

"So you probably havent got enough left for your rent next week then"

You: "I think I'll be ok, just crape through" (volunteering private matters gives them a key to your private life)

"Well that wasnt very responsible, wait till dad finds out"

Dispute begins....frustration builds

TonyWK

Re: My brother gives me anxitey!

Fiatlux — Thu, 17 Oct 2024 04:16:38 GMT

Hey Olliepop, Same here!

I went no contact with him more than 10 years ago but I have seen him at funerals and the occasional function. I didn’t speak to him or acknowledge him.

He is always sarcastic and nasty towards me. My younger sister passed away just over a year ago and he was arranging the funeral. I had no intention of going but he sent me an awful message that I should be ashamed of myself.

He also messaged my adult children, telling them the same thing.

Like I said, I cut him off because he’s not a nice person, yet he blamed me for blocking him. He’s not worth the stress and anxiety. I think he’s a narcissist too. Your brother sounds very much like mine with “better house” etc.

I don’t care for sibling rivalry. So I cut him off. He lives an another country now and that suits me just fine.

Fiatlux 🙏🏼

Re: My brother gives me anxitey!

white knight — Thu, 17 Oct 2024 05:38:42 GMT

Good posts here on this thread.

So we are discussing toxicity in people really. That is common but not such a common topic being pursued here. The reason is clear- it isnt fully in the mental health category eg yes Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is an official disorder but most people with narcissism dont recognise it as abnormal behaviour, just a method to get their own way and a learned talent from childhood.

So what is a toxic person. First up a toxic person to another might not be classified as such by someone else. Some peoples behaviour and tolerance might not trigger the narcissist to use their toxic behaviours. There with more tolerance could remain friends with that narcissist but they could also wait years and then - boom!! they face the other side of that person. There's truth in "a leopard doesnt change their spots".

So a toxic person to us individually is someone that has adverse behaviour as seen and experienced by us, that such behaviour is intolerable or uncomfortable or harmful to the point whereby our well being is under threat. That's my description, there might be others.

When deciding to sever the friendship or family member there is no easy way but there are unethical ways that can be unfair or even cruel. It is important IMO that you carry that out in a manner that any reasonable person would find fair. The legal jury system has 12 people to decide a verdict guilty or not guilty- "beyond reasonable doubt". That is the best example of reasonable. Another- if you place a robber under citizens arrest you can use force to detain that person to a level of what a jury would consider as "reasonable". Using a weapon to constrain a robber that resulted in serious injury would not pass that jury's judgement as "reasonable force".

So armed with what reasonable is you can sever the relationship in one of several ways.

Walk away and no communication- that is a right you have as long as it is permanent. In my relatives case she would break off without a word and return every time when it suited her eg she used separation as a weapon to hurt me.
Text- A modern means to break up. Some see it as cowardice. It is suitable however if you are convinced that person will argue extensively and you risk being hurt unnecessarily
Phone call- This is a good way of carrying out the deed. It will display your calm non combative demeanour leading to a chance of them staying calm also. There's also a chance they will apologise before you inform them of your decision.
Letter- they dont call it the "poisoned pen" for nothing. Letter is signalling you want to say heap but deny them of a reply. It's too one sided and it's often long and drawn out. Not an example of you moving on and can signal revenge. With true narcissistic people (yes there's various levels) you wont break up easily. So put in place your protective boundaries of revenge behaviour (blocking) and report illegal activity.

TonyWK

Re: My brother gives me anxitey!

Olliepop — Thu, 17 Oct 2024 18:33:26 GMT

The messages, sounds about right.

I learnt to give him a taste of his own medicine too, with a touch of silence.

Which angers him, because after that he tries to poke me for a reaction.. however now learning how he is, i just stay in my lane and remind him to keep away.. which.. makes him more angry... and then everyone sees how he is acting, and he looks more dumb.

Oh, another country... what i would love most hahaha!!
Unfortunately, our relationship is business based also, so we see each other 5 days a week. urgh.

Re: My brother gives me anxitey!

Fiatlux — Thu, 17 Oct 2024 23:49:27 GMT

Oh Olliepop,

You work together? I would have had a hard time doing that.

About 30 years ago I almost went into a business investment with my brother also. The more we discussed the possibility and how this business arrangement would work, the less enthusiastic I was and opted out of giving him my money and he would have 100% of the control. I escaped from this situation that would have been detrimental to me.

Despite everything, I loved my brother and I was there for him during 2 divorces. He basically only ever made contact with me when he needed someone to lean on. Even when he became a father, I rarely got to see my nephew. It hurts as he has a long distance relationship with my children. It’s not like I forbid my children to have contact with him occasionally, but he does say awful things about me. He thinks that I am too sensitive whereby I think he’s too aggressive. We can’t meet in the middle as he’s too arrogant and selfish.

As you work together, it’s probably best that you don’t discuss your private life with him at work and don’t discuss work when in a social setting with him.

My brother also dislikes my narcissistic husband, but somehow they have become best buddies. Again I think they do this to spite me.