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Personality Disorder Pathological

Loner_in_Hiding — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 10:35:48 GMT

I have been in mental health sector all my life since adolescence, I am totally screwed up and consistent dysthymia and major depression reactive to adverse life events ie. non-melancholic depression.

This past year or so I came to acute realisation that all my problems have only been manifestation of the core issue, that is, a personality disorder which I am very hesitant to name because this particular PD is so reviled, sensationalised and misunderstood. It always features as villainous.

You may have guessed what it is already although my pathology manifest in less known way, the way coined 'vulnerable', 'hyper-vigilant' or 'covert'.

I hate, ashamed of myself ,and tormented, for possessing such psyche of this personality disorder. I cannot deceive myself unlike so many others apparently unaware of their PD.

I have drifted lower and lower , more and more isolated (vicious depressive cycle) since I left Sydney about 8-9 years ago, going further away from capitals and lost professional psychiatric support. Only just existing by looking after my very demanding dog: the only family/friend I have got.

She has heart ailment now that numbers her days- lucky if she stays for another year.

I am in a desperation now knowing what would become of me when she finally goes.

I am so tired of my life which best described as a total failure.

Since I am famililess/friendless and a total stranger to a regional town where I live now who cares if I go? I have never been such a thing as valued community member.

Since every expenses are paid automatic direct deposit and my DSP coming in the same account, nobody would even know.

Personality Disorder Pathological

geoff — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 21:45:05 GMT

Hello Loner in Hiding, thanks for your post, however I think that you would get a better reply from Dr.Kim, and there is a thread called 'Ask Dr Kim', so if you like to type in Dr Kim in the search box above, it will appear. Geoff.

Personality Disorder Pathological

Loner_in_Hiding — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 02:09:50 GMT

Thank you for your input Geoff.

I think I scared ppl off.

Personality Disorder Pathological

Guest8901 — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 02:35:50 GMT

Hi Loner. No, not scared off! And can I say "welcome" to this fabulously supportive site.

Just dont have any experience or knowledge in your personality disorder. Whatever it may be? I'm sure you are able to disclose exactly what it is, if you would like to? Villainous? You certainly dont sound it, and I would welcome further information if you're comfortable to provide it. You wont be judged here Loner. We all have our own MH issues and, although yours may not be as well understood as some others, its still very important that you have a voice and somewhere supportive to come and talk. I applaud you for having come here. And by you having the courage to talk about it here, it will help fellow MH sufferers and the wider community, better understand your particular personality disorder.

I hope you feel safe enough and confident enough to come back and say more.

I too love my dog. I have a Tenterfield terrier, by the name of Charli. She's the best mate you could ask for. She is aging now though, being 9yo, and I honestly dread the day I lose her. So far, touch wood, she's in good health. But I certainly can understand and feel great empathy for you at the thought that you will lose her soon. My heart goes out to you.

I would welcome further discussion with you, if you would like to. Like I said, I cannot offer any specific advice regarding your PD. But I do feel for a fellow human being who is obviously suffering. And I understand feeling vulnerable, hypervigilant, shame, self hate, as well as feeling isolated, depressed and SI. I experience both anxiety (from PTSD) and depression, so although the diagnosis is not the same as yours, many of the resulting symptoms are common between us.

Kindest

Amanda

Personality Disorder Pathological

Loner_in_Hiding — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 03:12:50 GMT

I haven't energy to explain well right now and my English is limited.

The thing is,... Eating Disorder, Body Dysmorphia, Obsessive Compulsive rituals, severe anxieties, BPD along with permanent Dysthymia overlayed by major depressions I have all had them since very young age. But can not help myself knowing they have only been the symptoms of my core issue which is the PD I dare not name but you know which.

I became very ashamed and hating myself by the time I was 15 I locked myself up in my house and never set my foot out side for 2 years then long hospitalization-

What I am getting at is, I am acutely introspective to the point of puritanical to know the psyche of this PD festering inside myself which stops myself acting in the way this PD is usually known for.

Regular run of the mill psychologists in a regional town I currently reside can not see this PD in me - I have to spend months of counseling to educate the last psychologist with academic papers from the net because she just could not understand. I subsequently left this practice because it was out side her capability.

I am now desperately seeking somebody to work on my core issue probably in the form of psychodynamic therapy. I have to travel Melbourne way to get proper help and I am so tired because of depression.

I have only been treated for the said symptoms in which I have stated in the past because they were immediate and pressing but never the core problem. I came to the realization that unless it is properly recognized and dealt with, I would never find a solace in my life. The emptiness, feeling of defectiveness are eating me up leaving a huge hole inside me.

I have drifted down, away from cities and more and more isolated (vicious depressive cycle) - and older I get, less possibility of turning my life around.

So that is my justification for being here however I have got my indictment from lack of response that I do not even belong here.

Personality Disorder Pathological

Loner_in_Hiding — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 03:27:19 GMT

Thank you so much for your kind words Amanda.

It's Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Have not yet been officially diagnosed although the psychiatrist I had in Sydney mentioned 'cluster B' in his records of me and I was Borderline for years - which made me look into this personality cluster further in recent years in desperation and came to the conviction.

It pains me to explain to when I contact new therapists because it is not known for NPDs to be aware of their own pathology.

I appreciate your effort to connect with me Amanda, wishing you and your dogs well also.

Personality Disorder Pathological

Guest8901 — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 06:11:53 GMT

Thanks for your response Loner. As for your English, I read nothing in your posts to indicate that English was not your first language. All good.

Firstly, I want to provide the following information for the benefit of other readers. I don't want anyone thinking you're some sort of a monster, when you're clearly not (:

It's true that Narcissists are often spoken of unfairly and critically. It's important for everyone to know that it's a MH issue, just like any other MH issue spoken of here and in real life. You do belong here.

To be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) a person must meet five or more of the following traits:

A grandiose sense of self-importance
Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance or beauty
Belief they're special or unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people
Require excessive admiration
Have a very strong sense of entitlement
Exploitative of others in order to achieve their own ends
Lacks empathy and unwilling to recognize or identify with feelings and needs of others
Often envious of others or believe others are envious of them
Regularly shows arrogant, haughty behaviours or attitudes

Most PD's require a long-standing pattern of behaviour in order to be accurately diagnosed, and NPD is no different in that regard. So it's typical that your official diagnosis is yet to be made, despite being well into adulthood. Interestingly NPD is more prevalent in males than females, and research shows it affects around 6% of the general population. It's far more common than most people realise, and often undiagnosed.

Are you aware that NPD symptoms typically decrease in intensity with age? By the time they reach their 40's or 50's, many find the extreme symptoms reduce somewhat. Perhaps this offers you some hope?

It's not known what causes NPD, though its believed to be due to a combination of biological, genetic, social and psychological factors. Treatment of NPD usually involves long-term psychotherapy with a therapist with appropriate experience. Medications are often prescribed to help with specific symptoms.

Yes it is highly unusual for someone with NPD to admit or accept they have it. The fact that MH professionals appear in dispute about your diagnosis must be frustrating for you. I have some experience with narcissism, in fact I live with one. I love my husband despite that.

I will talk further when I can, if you'd like?

Amanda

Personality Disorder Pathological

Loner_in_Hiding — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 03:53:36 GMT

Hi Amanda, it has taken me while to respond to you -first of all, I appreciate your kindness to defend me for this wicked PD, but I am in a conundrum.

This being still official, it is no fault of your own at all to site these definitions. How would you to know or even care, it's not even about yourself at all but YOU Actually CARE.

I do not know if your beloved husband is a good fit to DSM-5 but because the definitions ignore vulnerable aspect or manifestations of NPD it is incomplete. and in itself fueling and perpetuating to create the commonly held view of NPDs : it only focuses agrressive exhibitionic aspects of NPD completely ignoring vulnerability, lack of self esteem and depleted aspects/manifestations of the NPD.

It does paint the picture of a narcissist whom one must run as far away as possible from.

I am not saying they are wrong, and many indeed may fit the definitions but it is Many arguments have been presented for years to improve the diagnostic manual of NPD and this exerts below from paper published by the American Journal of Psychiatry titled 'Narcissistic Personality Disorder: Diagnostic and Clinical Challenges ', is one of such arguments:

Diagnostic confusion surrounding narcissistic personality disorder reflects the disorder’s highly variable presentation and the wide range of severity that can characterize narcissistic pathology. Individuals with narcissistic personality disorder may be grandiose or self-loathing, extraverted or socially isolated, captains of industry or unable to maintain steady employment, model citizens or prone to antisocial activities. Given this heterogeneity, it is far from self-evident what such individuals could have in common to justify a shared diagnosis.

Personality Disorder Pathological

Loner_in_Hiding — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 03:56:56 GMT

Continued:

The DSM-5 criteria (Table 1) to some degree sidestep this question by providing a rather narrow and homogeneous definition of narcissistic personality disorder characterized by a pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, entitlement, and lack of empathy. However, while these criteria capture important aspects of narcissistic pathology, they provide inadequate coverage of the broad population of individuals who receive the diagnosis in clinical practice (9–11), and they fail to cover core psychological features of the disorder, including vulnerable self-esteem; feelings of inferiority, emptiness, and boredom; and affective reactivity and distress (11). Furthermore, because DSM-5 criteria are, a priori, limited to observable features of psychopathology, the description of narcissistic personality disorder in Section II of DSM-5 does not address underlying psychological structures or dynamic constellations that can be seen to organize and unify the various presentations of the disorder.

I apologize with all these excerpts. It must be boring if there is no relevance to you.
More later with a Proposed Criteria for NPD and regarding NPDs in later years also on causalities. Got rather long sorry again must exhausting to read and I am exhausted.
Kind Regards,
LiH.

Personality Disorder Pathological

Guest8901 — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 04:24:36 GMT

Hi Loner, and thanks for responding. Yes, I do care! And I appreciate you enlightening all of us to the lesser known aspects of NPD. Obviously there are many variants to a person who has NPD. As is the case with many MH and personality disorders, no two cases are exactly the same. And when it comes to MH, there is so much the so called experts are still mystified about. Its not nice being put into a pigeon hole and told that its where you belong, when you dont logically (or typically) fit the perceived or better known criteria.

I'm glad you are making the effort to educate all of us, and I thank you for doing so. Perhaps in the process, you may be helping yourself?

No need to apologise for your excerpts. I do not find the discussion boring in any way. I very much appreciate your perspective. Who better to discuss it than someone who is experiencing the disorder?

It is true that throughout the forums you do find a lot of discussion where narcissistic personalities and tendencies are criticised. I guess its understandable given the public and common perception on what a NPD person is. But generally it comes from people who have only the commonly held and highly critical views. Sadly, out of frustration, I have been critical too.

Clearly this is a highly distressing disorder for you to cope with, judging from the fact that you have isolated yourself and withdrawn from the world. Was there any particular point where you decided to do that, or was it a succession of things over time?

If you'd like to concentrate on any of the other related/unrelated (?) issues you have, I am happy to do so as well. For example, I too suffer from OCD. A coping mechanism I've been told, developed to cope with PTSD related symptoms. And having PTSD, I also experience anxiety all the time, often severe. I also go through periods of deep depression. So if you'd like to discuss any of this, please go right ahead. I also realise you may be keen to educate readers about your particular pathology with your NPD. So I look forward to hearing more from you about criteria and causalities. With regards to my husband and his narcissism, he is typical of the list I provided above, very much typical. 😞

Anyway this is your thread Loner, and you have the freedom to discuss whatever aspect of your MH that you choose to on any given day. You may get comments from others however, if you discuss some of the more common MH issues, eg anxiety and depression.

Hope to talk again.

Amanda

Personality Disorder Pathological

Loner_in_Hiding — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 06:37:42 GMT

Mandy, can't help welling tears in my eyes you touch me so with your generosity and kindness- Sympathize also about your OCD -such an all consuming, highly debilitating thing that is.

Personality Disorder Pathological

Guest8901 — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 07:06:24 GMT

Aww, thanks for telling me that. It actually means a lot, especially today.

Sorry for being the cause of the tears welling in your eyes, but hopefully they are relieving or happy tears? I know I get like that. Happiness is far more likely to bring tears to my eyes, than sadness. A bit silly? Perhaps.

Yes the OCD is a nasty piece of work. For me it fluctuates in its intensity, usually along with the PTSD 'episodes'. But the compulsions and obsessions are there every day to some extent. Do you get the particularly bad intrusive and distressing thoughts with it too? I get that when it gets bad, but thankfully not all the time.

I know you feel that it isnt treating the core issue of NPD, but have you found counselling to be of any benefit to you with regards to your OCD and general anxiety? Have you had any formal therapies for them?

I will keep checking back with you Loner, but I need to go now and get some dinner happening. Since I gather you are on your own, together with your canine friend, are you a decent cook? You mentioned that you have an eating disorder as well as body dysmorphia. I hope you are able to eat something adequately nutritious as much as possible.

Another thing we have in common is that I also live in a regional or rural area. I live out of town, but not too far from a small village. Did you like city living? I note you were in Sydney, so it meant quite a big change to move to a small regional area.

Do you have any hobbies or interests to help full your days? I love sport, almost all sports really. I used to play a lot of them too, but am a bit past it now unfortunately. Do you follow cricket, footy, soccer? Commonwealth Games are coming up soon, perhaps you enjoy watching some of the sports there? I have recently started doing some sketching, which I find very engrossing. I'm not very good at it, but I do enjoy it. It allows some time to myself and takes me away from my thoughts for a time.

Okay must go, but please talk any time you feel like it. I will get back to you as and when I can. I'm sure others will also jump on board to offer their support as well.

Mandy

Personality Disorder Pathological

Guest8901 — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 11:44:33 GMT

Hi Loner,

You've not been around all day today. Just checking in with you to see how you're doing. No pressure at all to reply, just interested to know you're okay.

Mandy

Personality Disorder Pathological

Loner_in_Hiding — Mon, 26 Mar 2018 02:43:51 GMT

Hi Mandy it seems it's only you who has in touch with me ( I hope this doesn't make you feel burdened). This I am not just talking about this virtual world but also with outer reality. That, I am grateful that I still have someone to chat. You are so infinitely caring to check in on me. I needed it, your warmth, especially today.

I am finding it extremely difficult to get the right help. I live in a regional Victoria (Latrobe Valley). As my hiding in shame tendency got worse and worse, it also become very difficult to get my way around out side this area.

I nave had a several specialist medical appointments in the last three months which made me to venture out via public transport for the first time since my relocation to the area 5 years ago - and this is so hard- being in populated area- I feel so weak and inadequate and more shame on top of anxieties associated planning catching the train on time to minute detail.

I have a chronic dermatitis and supposed to take up UV therapy 3 times a week at the location further towards West ( more populated further it gets towards Melbourne) about 4 stops away via rail and I have not been able to commence this.

Today was a day I resolved to start this, then I received another phone call from a psychologist turning down taking me and threw me into the darker place can not possibly go out catching a train today.

The psychologist mentioned above says there is only one place that could possibly offer me the help I need, Spectrum, that's the name of the organization.

This place located in dead centre of Richmond Melbourne and a satellite clinic at a fringe of Melbourne.

I have had the local community mental health triage support in touch with me in the past month or so but now they terminated my case because there is no therapist/psychologist for me in this 'catchment area' -none trained/experienced enough for the complex issues I have.

I dread that unless I travel to the capital, there would be no help around if there ever was a help - how am I going to manage that?

I am totally and absolutely on my own now to seek psych help and that fact is there is only myself who have authority to begin getting on for change. There is nobody even to know I ever existed thus I am the last and only person to look after my well-being.

It's looking bleaker by the day Mandy, I am wounded totally and slipping even further.

Personality Disorder Pathological

Guest8901 — Mon, 26 Mar 2018 06:37:47 GMT

Dear Loner. Thanks for getting back again, I was actually relieved to hear from you again. I thought I may have frightened you off? (: I'm very happy to continue to chat with you. Sorry it took me a while to get back to you today however. I needed to go into town earlier and this afternoon we have had a series of power blackouts. Urgh. No computer, no phone .. thanks to the good old NBN. So its been a disrupted day for me.

No I dont feel burdened by the fact that its currently just you and I talking here. I have every confidence that as people read your posts and get to know you a little better, there will be others who come on board to offer their support as well. Sometimes it takes a while. You sound like a genuinely nice fellow Loner, and I'm so dreadfully sorry that life has been such a struggle for you. Life is so unfair at times.

I recall reading on some other thread that you must have posted to early on, that you are 53yo. Is that right or am I mistaken about that? Actually its unusual for someone to be completely without any family or friends. Is it that you have isolated yourself from everyone by choice? Or, given you said English is not your first language, do you just not have any family here in Australia?

Loner, do not feel obliged to answer anything that you are not comfortable in answering. I understand that living in a regional area, privacy and the need to maintain anonymity is important. It is for me too because I live in a rural area. Be reassured however that these forums are moderated to ensure anonymity and safety for all members. So within reason, I hope you feel free to speak openly.

Oh dear, I'm sorry that on the day you resolved to make an effort to resolve your dermatitis issue, that you received the bad news about another psychologist turning you down. That must be so disheartening for you.

I really have no solutions for you Loner, as sad as that makes me feel. I so wish there was something I could say or do. I know it may sound pathetic, but please bear in mind that although today has been a terrible day for you, it wont always be this bad.

I wonder would you benefit by talking to a telephone help line when you feel this bad? Have you used them before at all? You can phone Lifeline on 131114, or else the Beyondblue help line on 1300 22 4636. Sometimes it helps to talk to a real life person. Please tell me you will seek help if things get worse for you. I'm worried about you.

Mandy

Personality Disorder Pathological

Guest8901 — Mon, 26 Mar 2018 20:44:19 GMT

Morning Loner,

I hope today does not seem quite as bleak as yesterday felt to you. I'm so sorry that you have now lost your only remaining support in the local community mental health triage. It doesnt sound right that they will no longer support you because they do not have the right therapist within your area. Surely that means you need them all the more? I would really like for you to call the Beyondblue help line on 1300 22 4636. They would be able to recommend organisations or professionals in your area who could help you. Yes I realise you have a very specialised and complex array of issues. And if it means having to go to the city in order to see Spectrum, then I hope you are able to aim to do that. Thats where I would have thought your local MH triage support would have been able to assist you. Very dissappointing that they cant.

We need to find some support and treatment for you. You should not have to do all this on your own, and it makes me angry that you are. Anyway, Beyondblue may have some ideas, would you please call them? The number is a 24 hour one. (:

I just want to point out before I go, that there is no reason for you to feel shame about your disorder. You did not choose this. You are not causing anybody (other than yourself) any grief or pain. Please stop blaming yourself.

The Latrobe Valley is a beautiful part of the world. I live in northern NSW, about an hour inland from the ocean. I hope you find something today to brighten your world just a little. Please do not give up hope Loner.

I may not have much access to the computer today, but I will check back in later in the day.

Mandy

Personality Disorder Pathological

Loner_in_Hiding — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 09:05:13 GMT

Mandy I am very grateful of your continuing support of me- Thank you but can't thank you enough.

I have been trying to gather some energy to answer your queries regarding how I came to be here at my age - no I am not offended at all that you ask just needing more energy to do. I am intending to explain.

Mean while, if you are curious about my state, my kind of NPD manifestation, please check this document called 'NPD Basic A brief overview of identifying, diagnosing and treating Narcissistic Personality Disorder'. You can access it online and it's in pdf form

It's a 20 page document very concisely expressed, just skip treatment sections if it gets too much although you may find it relevant regarding your husband.

I am full on insecure self-criticising type since very young age although at some stages in my earlier life tried 'grandiosity' or 'perfectionism' as coping mechanism but never stuck with me. My self-loathing was too great for that.

I liked your way of making light of a bad situation re: internet outage by the way- way to go girl!

Personality Disorder Pathological

Loner_in_Hiding — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 09:21:56 GMT

PS. I had a stint in Lismore about a year or so before I moved down here. The subtropic climate didn't agree with me unfortunately but I miss some people I met there.

Personality Disorder Pathological

Guest8901 — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 11:59:04 GMT

Dear Loner. No need to thank me, I enjoy talking with you.

I just typed in that detail you provided, but it didnt bring up what I think you referred to. I will try again using another search engine. I am interested in reading it, as it will help me to understand you a little better. And I do want to. I expect it will also be useful in my own experiences in dealing with my husband. By the way, since mid last year he is very ill. In fact suffering from an incurable disease, so I am nursing him most of the time. Recently I had to give up part time work because I wasnt coping well with both hubbys illness and my own MH issues combined.

I'm sorry your short stint in Lismore did not work out. It sounds like you met some nice people there. We could have almost been neighbours. Is it the humidity that you did not like? I must say that the Latrobe Valley would suit my own preferences much better than Northern NSW as well. I find heat and humidity very draining. We moved up here from southern NSW a number of years back. Hubby likes hot humid weather, so he is right in his element.

What breed is your dog? I realise she has a heart condition now, so I expect that limits the amount of exercise she is able to do. Are you still able to take her for short walks occasionally?

Can I ask whether you gave any further consideration to calling the Beyondblue help line 1300 22 4636? They may be able to point you in the right direction with regards to obtaining some appropriate help and support in your local area. What about online NPD support groups, have you looked into that at all?

How do you fill in your days Loner? Are there things you like to do, places you enjoy going to?

Okay its nearly 11pm and I'd best head off to bed. Please come and post any time you feel like chatting. I'm often around and will reply when I can. Actually today the Forums were down for something like 4 hours through the middle of the day, which was a bit worrying. So between that and a number of power blackouts here over the past 2 days, its been a real pain in the butt.

Right ... good night then. Catch you next time. Remember ... you can post here any time.

Mandy

Personality Disorder Pathological

Loner_in_Hiding — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 22:10:19 GMT

Type in "NPD basic pdf' it will come up as 'NPD Basic National Education Alliance for Borderline Personality...', and written by Elsa Ronningstam, Ph.D. McLean Hospital. Harvard Medical School.

Oh no, how unwell is you husband? I hope he is in better place mentally. He is blessed to have you.

My dog's breed has been unknown, but usually place her under 'Maltese Cross' category for convenience. I got her from a dog pound in Windsor NSW. She has an albino streak with a part blue eye making her to have very low tolerance to heat even mild heat. She as Mitral Valve Disease as well as long standing severe anxieties and fear agression- has been on a curtail of meds for all these plus glucosamin. She gets around ok fine so far as long as it's cool however her lesting breathing rate has been increasing (breathing rate important indication) and i'd be lucky if she lives for another year - Have you got your dog checked for heart murmur? It is good to be sure of absence of it, small breed dogs are prone for this congenital disease.

I got to go coz I have to walk her- it's always been exhausting to look after her - we have had unhealthy dependence to each other.

Will talk soon.