topic First time on Beyond Blue.... in Welcome and orientation

First time on Beyond Blue....

Kaspa — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 13:55:19 GMT

Hey, I'm Kaspa. I'm 37, a mum, in a de-facto relationship for almost 19 years and have had - in my humble opinion- more than my fair share of drawing the short straw. Every experience has made the woman I am today. While growing up, my ideals were polar opposites to my life today. I suppose we all have different views on how we'd like to be as an adult but to be so far off has me constantly frowning and asking "why?". I had my first child at 23. Compared to my peers, I was almost a geriatric mum. Unfortunately my mum was born decades too early and had children because it was "expected" or "that's how everyone was back then". Her words. Mum isn't the most maternal and told me more than once that a baby before marriage would be a deal breaker for her. Having our first daughter didn't dissuade her. It wasn't until my. Dad took me to have baby checked out for not meeting certain milestones by 8 months of age. They said she had a genetic muscle wasting disease that can't be cured. 3-5 years they told me. Mums not an ice maiden and this pretty much brought her back into my life until we lost our bub at 3 years old. Every pregnancy my defacto's and I conceive has to be tested. If we left each other it wouldn't be an issue unless we met others that had the same gene. We both have to have it for this to happen. That's my crux issue obviously. It's been 10 yrs but I can still see every detail of her last 24 hours. It's hard for me not to acknowledge her when askd about my kids. Am I supposed to pretend she never existed so others don't feel uncomfortable? Most my friends and family including my defacto thinks I should look at it that way. How? She grew inside me for goodness sake, even mums amongst my friends don't get it. I'm resigned that there won't be many that do but how am I supposed to function when everywhere I turn, I'm told to suck it up or get over it? I was diagnosed with chronic depression and social anxiety last year. I look at my kids and think they deserve so much better than this pathetic feel sorry for me poor excuse of a mother, even my mums lack of affection seems like xmas in comparison. I adore my kids I tell them I love them every day. Having kids saved my life and I'm not going to let anything else ruin our happiness.

thats why I'm here. I hope this is the right place to be. I feel like I'm running out of options.
thanks for taking the time to read this
Kaspa

First time on Beyond Blue....

BballJ — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 14:22:57 GMT

Hi Kaspa, (Awesome name by the way)

Firstly, Welcome to the forums, it takes a lot of courage to post here even though it may not feel like it so kudos on that.

I can't out right relate to what you have been through, as I'm 27 and don't have kids yet but reading your story is intense and i simply wanted to post back. I'm sorry for your loss of your little one, i cannot begin to understand how tough that would of been. One thing i learnt about you from your post is you are incredibly strong and resiliant, you seem to take a lot of bumps in your life and ride them out and come through them. One question regarding your depression and social anxiety, are you or have you seen someone about these issues? You don't have to answer, was just a way to get to understand that side a little bit more.

The reason for my post is that i wanted to point out from what i read you are certainly in no way a "pathetic feel sorry for me, poor excuse for a mum"... You sound so far from that description it was hard for me to even write.... from what i gather and you wrote it yourself, you are a superb mother who just loves her kids and thats all any kids could ever ask for in my opinion, my mum walked out on my family when i was 18 years old (she went overseas and never came back) so i know a thing or two about mums and that side of it and I just simply wanted to point out you seem like a great mum and are doing your absolute best and i am sure your kids know this and try not to let anyone tell you any different.

I'm sorry i am not much help but i simply wanted to let you know I heard and read your story and am here to talk if you ever want too.... you'll find these forums great for that, they have helped heaps with my anxiety and mild depression.

My absolute best for you and your family.

Jay

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Wilma1 — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 22:14:23 GMT

Hi Kaspa, I was so moved by your story. You are not a pathetic feel sorry for me and definitely not a poor excuse for a mum. You sound very caring towards your children. I'm sorry you lost your little one. I don't have children but I did have a foster daughter. Giving her back was very hard even though I knew from the beginning that was what was expected of me. Nothing like what you had to go through I know. I too suffer from depression and know too well the difficulties this adds to life. I haven't been on the forum long, but I'm finding it truly supportive and helpful hearing how others are coming through. I hope you will also hind the support you need. I wish you well today Kaspa. Wishful

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White_Rose — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 23:07:24 GMT

Dear Kaspa

Hello and welcome to Beyond Blue. This is a good place to be and to write about your hurt and sorrow. So many people have had losses and can understand your grief. I had four children and count myself fortunate that I did not lose any of them. However my sister-in-law lost her baby at birth and my daughter miscarried at 19 weeks. Both of the events were hard for the moms and for the rest of the family. A friend of mine lost her eldest son at age 23 in a work accident.

I believe it doesn't matter how old the child is when they die, parents will always grieve. It doesn't just go away. And you had your baby for three years always knowing that one day she would be gone. I can't think of anything worse than watching your child die. Please accept my sympathy. My friend who lost her 23 yo son told me something a friend of hers had said.

Never believe you will forget your child or get over the pain. But the intervals between remembering will get longer.

I thought that was such a reassuring comment and so true. I have never met anyone who blocked out the memory of a lost child. Pretending for the sake of someone else will only make you feel worse. If you are asked then I believe all your children should be acknowledged.

It must hard bringing up your other children knowing the first one would be so many years older and probably none of children ever knew the lost one, or only briefly, and cannot understand why you feel sad. You say you were diagnosed with depression a year ago. Does that mean you are taking medication and/or seeing a counsellor? Experiencing such a traumatic event and coping with your grief afterwards is very hard to do on your own. I hope you have some supportive people in your life.

Your partner is probably also grieving but chooses to put away those memories because they are so painful. Maybe you could both go together to a grief counsellor and talk about your loss. What is happening to you is quite normal. I would be more concerned if you did not get upset.

You sound like a loving and caring mom, one that has been through a dreadful experience and is still struggling with grief. I suggest you explore this web site and read the excellent information that is provided. Start with the blue tabs at the top of the page. You can either download this information or ask BB to send you hard copies. It may be useful to obtain hard copies (no charge for this) to give your husband and friends.

Please write in again.

Mary

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Kaspa — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 23:13:47 GMT

BballJ said:
Hi Kaspa, (Awesome name by the way) thanks😉

One question regarding your depression and social anxiety, are you or have you seen someone about these issues? yes jay, I was seeing someone but I'm not ready to go into all the crap inside regarding Aaliyah. I'm scared to even look at that pandora a box...

you are certainly in no way a "pathetic feel sorry for me, poor excuse for a mum"... You sound so far from that description it was hard for me to even write.... Jay, no one in my immediate family or closest friends have ever said that to me....not even from my own parents. These 8 letters don't seem like much but each character is full of gratitude and affection for u Thank YOU.

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Kaspa — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 23:20:39 GMT

BballJ, I don't think u need to have kids to understand what I'm going through. I'm not like most mums where I put myself on a pedestal and think my kids are the next Bill Gates or Hilary Clinton! As a girl we had a cute shitzu cross called Freckles. We loved her like another sibling and that makes me think that labor and childbirth isn't the only way to be a "mum" or know how to love a child.

I think ur equally strong for doing what u had to with ur foster child. I can see how hard that would be. Promise me u won't belittle ur experiences just so u don't offend another parent or something silly like that. Having a child doesn't make anyone a genius. Some give that impression but I'm DEFINITELY NOT one of them!

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Kaspa — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 23:27:32 GMT

Wishful, I like that username.. Being a foster parent is just as hard if not harder than raising a biological child in my eyes. When it's ur own kid, u can make certain mistakes because they're essentially mini versions of u and ur partner but sometimes it can be detrimental. I know of a boy that called FACS at the age of 7 to ask to be taken away from his mother. Promise me u'll never let others belittle ur experiences just because u didn't birth a child. Most parents think being a mum or dad is equal to knighthood by the Queen herself! I guarantee the Queen never had to push a 30 cm head out of a 10 cm hole to become her Majesty! There's an abundance of unnecessary praise for nothing thses days. U on the other hand deserve that praise. As parents we choose to have kids. U chose to have someone else's which is one hard feat. I've tried to help others but don't have the elasticity within me to extend for another being in need. The fact u did makes u a saint in my eyes.

thank you

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Kaspa — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 23:56:05 GMT

White Rose said: Never believe you will forget your child or get over the pain. But the intervals between remembering will get longer. - thank you for this. It's exactly what I needed to read.If you are asked then I believe all your children should be acknowledged. - I do do this but am always met with a roll of the eyes or a snide comment about milking sympathy. What these people don't get is by saying that, they make me feel like Aaliyah never mattered to them. Who am I referring to? My parents. It must hard bringing up your other children knowing the first one would be so many years older and probably none of children ever knew the lost one, or only briefly, and cannot understand why you feel sad. - I decided early on that having another child while Aaliyah was alive wasn't wise. My 2nd was born 16 months after we lost Aaliyah. My 3rd came 20 months after that. We tried and tried to conceive after our 3rd but each placenta had to be tested for the muscle disease. There is a 1 in 4 (25%) chance that each baby (/placenta) will test positive for the condition. That's 75% chance my baby's will be healthy but that's not how it went.... My dads a fraternal twin with another set of female fraternal twins as his siblings. I fell pregnant with fraternal boys but both tested positive. There's no indication that boys get this more but I've never had a successful boy pregnancy yet. I had the option of a subsidised fertility PGD IVF (Pre Implantation Genetic Diagnostics) treatment but we fall pregnant looking at each other and didn't want to take the spot from another couple that couldn't fall as easily. We finally accepted our fate and didn't want to turn sex into a dreaded event. That's when I fell pregnant with my 4th. She was a surprise and a determined little angel. I know the month prior we didn't.....well...you know. But apparently, and my GP confirmed it, that sperm can wait for an egg if warranted. I thought they died pretty quickly but the female ones last longer. She's our little miracle and kind of the instigator for my current situation. Not my baby girl, but the fact we have a newborn, a 5 week premature newborn after 8 yr gap.You say you were diagnosed with depression a year ago. Does that mean you are taking medication and/or seeing a counsellor? - yes and no. Counselling isn't easy for me because my issues revolve around Aaliyah. Broaching that isn't something I'm ready for. Not sure I'll ever be ready...Mary

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White_Rose — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 02:17:02 GMT

My Dear Kaspa

Thank you for your response. I'm always nervous talking to someone about loss and grief as I may put my foot in it. Seems I have not done so this time. Great!

My knowledge of biology has just received a boost. I too thought sperm needed to reach the goal pretty quickly or die. Well, we are supposed to learn something new every day.

Those who respond to you with unkind remarks are not worth bothering about and certainly don't sound like friends. After I had posted to you I remembered several other friends who lost babies through a miscarriage. Generally, if asked how many children they had they would say X number, which included the lost babies, and add, but they had lost Y number. I don't think anyone ever saw this as milking the situation.

If your friends don't want to know the answer then perhaps they should stop asking the question.

Aaliyah is a pretty name. May I make a suggestion to you? On her next birthday or the anniversary of her death, can you have a small ceremony for her. Depending on your beliefs this could be in your local church, perhaps a park or maybe in your own garden. I worship in an Anglican church and holding a memorial service is always acceptable, no matter the age of the person remembered. Perhaps you may like to think about this. It's a way of remembering and also letting go of some of the pain.

I imagine Aaliyah's funeral was extremely distressing and you may not remember much of it. This is a way of saying goodbye in whatever way you want. If you feel your children are old enough to understand in some way they could be included in the service. Telling them about the time Aaliyah was with you is also comforting. I don't know if you have photographs of Aaliyah, but if you do I hope they are on display with the other family photos.

You say you are not ready to broach the Aaliyah issue and I respect your knowledge. I do want to suggest that leaving it too long can be even more painful. No matter when you set about this taking this journey it will be painful. It will require courage and love and a desire to be the best you can be for your other children. No, not forgetting Aaliyah, but giving the other children their time in the sunshine. Please think about it and perhaps have a chat with your GP. I gather you are taking meds.

Talk it over here with your BB family.

Mary

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Wilma1 — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 20:29:31 GMT

Hi Kaspa, I've been reading through Mary's post, very wise and thoughtful. Like her I don't want to say anything wrong. Thinking back, re my foster daughter, it was the empty arms, empty heart. She has left her finger print on my heart. She's now a grown woman. In the beginning I thought about her 24/7. That has lessened, but I will never forget about her. Like your little one she has given me memories, wonderful and difficult, letting go is hard. I will be thinking about you. Kaspa, you are not alone. Wishful

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Kaspa — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 14:18:04 GMT

White Rose said:
My Dear Kaspa

Thank you for your response. I'm always nervous talking to someone about loss and grief as I may put my foot in it. Seems I have not done so this time. Great!

- it's not possible to offend me when discussing Aaliyah. Not in this situation anyway. I know all you put down came from a caring and thoughtful place, the fact each of you took the time to read and comment on my post, humbles me.

White Rose said:

Well, we are supposed to learn something new every day.

- I've always said those who think there's nothing new to learn forfeit their ability to grow and mature.

White Rose said:

Aaliyah is a pretty name.

- she's named after the R&B singer that died on a plane crash with her dancers. While pregnant with her in 2001, I awoke one morning to my alarm (which is my fav radio station) broadcasting that Aaliyah had died over night. It felt right.

White Rose said:

May I make a suggestion to you? On her next birthday or the anniversary of her death, can you have a small ceremony for her.

- that's a great idea! My kids just started their 2 week school holidays as well.

White Rose said:

I don't know if you have photographs of Aaliyah, but if you do I hope they are on display with the other family photos.

- not of Aaliyah.....yet. I'll do it as soon as I can. I forgot all about that too!

White Rose said:

I gather you are taking meds.

- I forgot to answer this before! Yes, I recently changed after 10+ yrs.

First time on Beyond Blue....

Kaspa — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 14:19:19 GMT

White Rose said:My Dear KaspaThank you for your response. I'm always nervous talking to someone about loss and grief as I may put my foot in it. Seems I have not done so this time. Great!

White Rose said:Well, we are supposed to learn something new every day.

- I've always said those who think there's nothing new to learn forfeit their ability to grow and mature.

White Rose said:Aaliyah is a pretty name.

White Rose said:May I make a suggestion to you? On her next birthday or the anniversary of her death, can you have a small ceremony for her.

- that's a great idea! My kids just started their 2 week school holidays as well.

White Rose said:I don't know if you have photographs of Aaliyah, but if you do I hope they are on display with the other family photos.

- not of Aaliyah.....yet. I'll do it as soon as I can. I forgot all about that too!

White Rose said:I gather you are taking meds.

- I forgot to answer this before! Yes, I recently changed after 10+ yrs.

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Kaspa — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 14:26:04 GMT

Wishful said:Hi Kaspa, I've been reading through Mary's post, very wise and thoughtful.

I agree! I'm glad I decided to do this!

Wishful said:Like her I don't want to say anything wrong.

not possible!

Wishful said:Thinking back, re my foster daughter, it was the empty arms, empty heart. She has left her finger print on my heart.

I understand exactly what you're talking about it. That's a great way to put it too,

Wishful said:Kaspa, you are not alone. Wishful.

thanks to all of you, I'm starting to believe that's truly attainable...

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white knight — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 14:39:43 GMT

Hi Kaspa, welcome

I have nothing to add. I just wanted to let you know that many people like me read posts and not respond.

I just admire you and feel sad you lost your child but proud as punch for your courage

Tony WK

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Wilma1 — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 07:36:54 GMT

Hi Kaspa, just dropping in to say hi and wish you a good day.. By the way I liked the pooch you had Freckils. I have a little girl, the one one the post pic. She's my family, she's amazing. Take care. Wishful

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Kaspa — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 10:15:05 GMT

I'm honoured to have a great Community Champion peer at my post let alone comment!! I knows it's not that big of a deal but I'm a lil'starstruck nonetheless!

thanks🛡White Knight⚔

FYI, I'm a "serial peruser" that rarely comments so I understand what you're getting at. For any others that may do the same please read this:

Unfortunately, throughout your lives there'll be many instances where you'll come across someone that's lost a child. Most people find it hard to think of the "right" thing to say or do when truthfully there isn't anything to say or do! I'll never forget having to plaster a Barbie™ smile throughout Aaliyah's funeral. By the end I swore I'd slap the next person that said "I'm so sorry" or "you poor poor girl". I know, I know, I sound kinda harsh but my feelings were polar opposites to those attending that day. Saying I'm so sorry makes the grieved instantly remember the parts they'd most like to forget....well it did with me anyway. Besides, being Aaliyah's mum was an honour. I'm nowhere near spiritual or religious but I do believe G-d chose me specifically to be her mum. I was 23 when she was born and when I discovered I was carrying her, I started the necessary processes to help pull myself out of homelessness. Having her saved my life, sanity and reinstalled a sense of self worth I'd long forgotten. None of that deserves to be apologised for! Not one second was wasted while we had her and every moment since has deepened my love for all my children - born or not (between bub #3 and #4 I had 3 miscarriages, 5 positive test results for the genetic muscle wasting condition. Positive tests on two seperate placentas because it was a fraternal twin pregnancy😔they were boys* too). Next time you're in the position of greeting a mourner, think about what you'd like to hear if you were in their position. That's if you can sympathise. Never empathise with anyone or anything if you've never gone through a similar situation. Empathy implies you HAVE had similar experiences. Sympathy is how you feel when you HAVEN'T gone through something but can still feel pain because of it.

take care my BB people!

*muscle condition isn't gender specific

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White_Rose — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 21:02:15 GMT

Hello Kaspa

How are you going these days? It's always difficult to know how to express your sorrow when a friend/family member loses someone dear to them. With my friends who lost their adult son I just walked into their home and gave a big hug. I think that says it all. I'm not big fan of hugging but there are many times when it's good and says all you would like to say.

There are far fewer children who die when young these days, and I think this is one of the reasons why we get so uncomfortable. It's great we do not lose so many little ones and when we hear of the death of a child we are shocked. I think this is why we feel so awkward with the parents. It's something that has been outside our experience but has touched us, in a different way, but we lack the skills to offer comfort. Even in saying that I know comfort is not what you want, but it's the best we can offer.

Thank you writing your post above. As Tony WK has written, so very proud of you and your courage. Keep talking to us. When you hold your ceremony for Aaliyah can you tell us about it? I would very much appreciate it.

Do you find taking (presumably) antidepressants is helpful? I find they take away the raw edge and allows you heal. Continue to take care of yourself and your family.

Mary

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Kaspa — Sun, 25 Sep 2016 23:29:56 GMT

White Rose said: Hello Kaspa How are you going these days?

I'm going okay Mary, thank you for your concern😊 I noticed you're also a Community Champion and I'm sorry for not realising it sooner! It's so humbling to know BB regulars are interested in my post!

White Rose said: When you hold your ceremony for Aaliyah can you tell us about it? I would very much appreciate it.

When we decide (I'm in a house with 4 women and 1 guy! Decisions like this (where my 8 and 10 year old girls are concerned).....involves a lot of debating whilst learning about decibels and their level. Especially the socially acceptable ones. Very important so they can learn to talk to each other like they actually like each other!

White Rose said: Do you find taking (presumably) antidepressants is helpful? I find they take away the raw edge and allows you heal.

I was on medication pretty much the day after I lost Aaliyah. I stayed on that for too long and wasn't effective anymore. While pregnant with Aubree (Aubree is how I see think the female version of Aubrey should be) earlier this year, I'd stopped it because the pregnancy hormones alone were doing the job (I don't like taking tablet remedies for simplistic ailments. I think we have enough within us to fight the common illnesses.) Once born I started on another medication. I've gone up in dosage once and it seems to be doing its job so far

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White_Rose — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 06:10:57 GMT

Hello Kaspa

Thanks for keeping in touch. We are all interested in your posts, stories and progress. It is this community network that helps us to keep going in the toughest times. Offering tips, suggestions and general support is what we do for each other, especially when our difficult personal circumstances have been set on a more even keel. Perhaps you will find you are able to post to others who are struggling as you get stronger.

Mary

I would love to hear about your ceremony when you are ready. I appreciate that having a number of people involved in the decision making can lengthen the preparation time but the result will be fantastic. I hope it will be a joyful celebration of Aaliyah's life and bring healing to you and your family.

Antidepressants can be both a blessing and a difficulty. I have tried many different SSRI meds and basically they either don't work or have horrendous side effects. So now I have been prescribed a medication from the original group of AD, Tricyclic drugs. And oh bliss, oh rapture, they work fantastically and have no side effects. That alone is a cause for joy. I have finally resigned myself to taking antidepressants for the rest of my life. I don't like the idea at all and maybe, when life stops getting in the way, I may be able to stop taking them. Meanwhile I will make the most of my life and take meds with the same attitude as I take food. I need some every day.