topic Hi in Welcome and orientation

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Chris87 — Tue, 20 Sep 2016 10:13:54 GMT

Just wanted to introduce myself. Male, 29.. (sounds like a dating website) 2 year old son who I love more than anything in this life. Police Officer 6 years, just about to graduate as a lawyer. Had a rough time around December last year, admitted for a short time. But been suffering my whole life. Nine months with one to two appointments a week with a Psychiatrist later, you can say I know a little about whats going on. I don't listen to diagnoses, and to be honest they are a load of... but only you can figure that out. I have seven 'labels,' from that little book the DSM, but let me tell you when you have a psych that doesn't believe in medication or the way psychiatry is headed, you soon learn where your problems come from. If you really want to know whats going on upstairs and take control of your life, think causes, that's it. What caused the mood, what caused the anxiety? Sometimes the cause is so small or so stupid (perceived) we refuse to acknowledge it, and hence blame it on the label. Toss the labels, lets talk about causes and triggers. I tossed all the medication too, well the majority, but I don't know if I can talk about that here. Anyway, I want to speak with like minded people about life's challenges. Nice to meet you, Chris.

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PatT — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 10:01:51 GMT

Hi Chris,

I'm one of the community champions on the forums here. Lovely to meet you over this text based conversation. The thing with psychs is that they're a dime a dozen but so often you meet one that really helps you. There's a reason that they have the education they do and we assume they know more about the psyche than we do. They do, but sometimes they're uncommitted to their jobs and sometimes they're just working on an outdated education. Personally, it took me to find quite a while to find one I really clicked with but when I did we worked through a lot of my issues - PTSD, depression, anxiety, bipolar and so on. It's generally a trust issue as well, even at the most subconscious level.

At the end of the day your mind is literally the thickest pavlova you've ever seen, each layer piled on since you were born, some layers are rotting and decayed, some are preserved and wonderful. Looking at it from the top there is no way you'll be ever to easily extract the rotten ones, you have to dig deep and gradually pull them out until the rest of the pavlova resembles something wholesome. Sorry for the metaphor I was eating pavlova when I wrote this.

Be open, be easy.

Pat.

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geoff — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 18:41:39 GMT

hi Chris, can I just say I like your metaphor Pat.
My last psychologist was someone who didn't believe in taking any medication, even for pain, because he believed that you can talk your way out of being in pain, stop OCD, don't need antidepressants or any other medication to help you with any issue you have, but I told him that I totally disagree with his principles and ended our association.
Of course it's up to the person what they decide to take and no one can be forced to take them.
It would be impossible for you or anybody else to be able to feel comfortable talking to every psych, because personalities clash, ideas are different and when you talk with them both conversations go in different directions, which means that you will turn off listening to them.
What we all go through in life can be easy for some people, and how lucky they are, but for others it's like tryng to push a wheelbarrow full of concrete up hill, it's a struggle, but I believe that you have come to a site where all of us have had enormous challenges, and that's why we are here. Geoff.

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blondguy — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 20:39:22 GMT

Hi Chris

Welcome and thanks for the great post. There seems to be a few health professionals that are anti-meds which is sad as there is a chemical/biological change that occurs with some disorders which make them physical in nature too. Pat and Geoff have made some great points on this above

One of the smartest moves I made was to start anti-depressants 20 years ago. They kept me successfully employed and provided me with a platform on which I could heal using the various coping mechanisms to improve/ heal even more.

You make a good point about all the various labels given to a seemingly growing list of psychological disorders. I also think that too many of these labels are counter productive to healing. Even though I have had acute anxiety since 1983 and depression from 1996, I try to get things basic where terminology is concerned.

'Labels are for soup cans'

Just opinion but I think medication (where appropriate) is a must. To suggest that someone get over depression by thinking happy thoughts is the same as telling a diabetic to think happy thoughts to reduce their blood sugar levels.

Great topic Chris 🙂 Thanks again for your post!

My kind thoughts

Paul

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Kazzl — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 03:17:06 GMT

Hello Chris, thank you for posting your perspective on the forum I am sure it will be of interest to many members.

I wish to say that while you are taking a positive approach, your methods might not be suitable to everyone, especially the tossing out the medication bit.

My label is bipolar disorder type 2. What caused it? Genetics. Medical science largely agrees now that genetics accounts for approximately 80 per cent of bipolar cases. (Source: Blackdog Institute) Some studies have mapped the brains of bipolar subjects and found physiological differences. I know it's genetic in my case because it's in my family. And, I know it's for life - there ain't no cure.

Some people can manage bipolar without medication. Others like me, who need to be stable to work and maintain relationships etc, can't, or at least don't want to take the risk, given that according to a study from the US, an estimated 25 to 50 percent of bipolar people attempt suicide. By taking medication we are taking control of our lives.

Whether we use medication or not depends on severity, life circumstances, life responsibilities and our own reaction to their efficacy. I'm glad tossing out the medications and labels worked for you, and I'm sure it does for others. But I caution against advocating a one-size-fits all approach on what is a very very complex area of medicine and psychiatry.

And labels are just names for conditions, don't use them if you don't want to. But I find mine useful as a way of understanding and explaining what's going on with me. As I would if I had a physically manifesting condition like diabetes or Parkinsons.

Best wishes

Kaz

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Starwolf — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 03:29:59 GMT

Hi Chris,

Thank you for initiating this interesting thread. It is good to know that you have found a therapist who suits and understands your specific needs. Such professionals are invaluable allies to have on your side.

I understand where you come from. I have pulled myself out of depression, anxiety, DP/DR disorders and PTSD while remaining medication free throughout the long journey. But I have also learned that different approaches suit different people... and we're all different. I have successfully used strategies that I wouldn't recommend to anyone else. I just couldn't take on that responsibility but favour the old Horses for courses perspective.

Like in all areas of Life, what works wonders for one could be a total failure, even dangerous for another. What seems to work best for all of us though is keeping an open mind.

I wish you all the best on your personal journey.

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white knight — Thu, 22 Sep 2016 06:23:50 GMT

Hi Chris, welcome

This "open mind" suggestion is spot in terms of ...well everything to do with mental illness.

You have a reasonable track record of employment. I've done- RAAF, Pentridge prison officer, dog ranger, security, control room operator, railways investigator and ran my own private investigation company for 18 years. But when I was initially and incorrectly diagnosed with bipolar 1 and ADHD in 2003 I knew zilch about those disorders.

So the following 6 years was tolerated with the wrong medications...12 different types in all. I could have turned my back on meds then and there. But we got a second opinion in 2009....bipolar type 2 (like Kaz above) , dysthymia, depression and dwindling anxiety. An accurate diagnosis.

So another course of meds. Wow, what a difference. My main symptoms of bipolar 2 are bad moods. You say "find the source, the trigger etc" nope, sorry to disagree but most of the time those chemicals in my brain if not medicated create their own mood recipe when they feel like it...no trigger required.

So in the last 7 years a fine tuning of my mood stabilisers has been done once...early 2016. I also take a low dose of ad's. Too high a dose can make bipolar sufferers manic

So what about psychs and your comments about them.? Well with that "open mind" I believe all medical professionals have their slice of importance. Most aren't available to vent to 24/7 like beyondblue is so beyondblue has their important slice also as friends willing to listen have their importance.

Finally, challenges. Well I'll leave you with a thread I wrote some time ago. Circa 1982...please google it. And thanks for your post.

Topic: 30 minutes can change your life- beyondblue

Tony WK

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MarkJT — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 08:40:42 GMT

Chris, great thread this - challenges conventional thinking at times. I have had some excellent psychs and some where i reckon i was teaching them!

On the subject of knowing your triggers, you are preaching to the converted here. I know my triggers and early on in my journey knew that i was never going to able to avoid them all. Once i was strong enough and trained myself up to handle it, I went about, in a safe way, deliberately engaging those triggers to get the power back of them and back onto me. Had to tactically retreat a couple of times but for the most, it worked a treat.

For example, after i got out of hospital, i suddenly found the thought of getting on a train a fully anxiety driven thought so i went to the train station on a quiet line at midday knowing that the train would be virtually empty. Got my music on to ground myself and got on, sweating bullets, shaking but knowing that i was in the process of learning to live again so pushed myself through it. Did this a few times and felt the anxiety levels decreasing. Still wont get on a packed train but generally don't have an issue getting on them now.

When ever i have a crap day, i backtrack and assess what i have been doing and i can generally pin point where i buggered something up, like poor diet, not enough water, not enough mindfulness etc. So yes, when you get to know your moods and triggers and work out ways to combat them, it makes life a truck load easier.

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Cornstarch — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 09:04:03 GMT

You're such a fighter Mark.

Kudos to you mate.

I really can see your strong spirit.

Lion Heart

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MarkJT — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 11:03:31 GMT

Thanks for the words Cornstarch - appreciate it.

I find the subject of mental health so fascinating and having lived it, just so keen to hear other peoples stories and help where i can. Different people, different stories, different triggers, different ways of coping, different thought processes but in way we are nearly all the same. Like this thread, just so different to all the others i have read. Chris original post makes me think in a different direction and consider different approaches, so continuing to learn.

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Chris87 — Fri, 23 Sep 2016 12:10:53 GMT

I have been on a fair few medications from anti-depressants, Beta-blockers, Benzo's to anti-psychotics, and for a long time. The thing is, sometimes you have to make a distinction between people who are really messed up, and people who are just going through a rough time and do a bit of CBT and they resolve their issues in 6 weeks. I am not trying to put down those people in anyway, but a distinction must be made for the best treatment to be made available. I won't tell you the labels from the DSM because I don't think it really matters. I have a complex view on the world, mainly extremely negative, brought about from childhood experiences and mental neglect. I disagree with a chemical imbalance for mental disorder as there is no scientific evidence to support this (if you disagree, please provide a link to a peer-viewed study not paid for by a pharmaceutical company). I admit there are some correlations in the some evidence on brain mapping etc, but these are correlations not causations of mental illness. My life is still very turbulent, but I know there is a cause for everything, even if you can't identify it. The goal is to search your brain long and hard for the trigger, either real or just a mental manifestation. It can be as simple as a thought, or as complex as hearing a gunshot (as in PTSD). Life without meds is tough, don't get me wrong. I have seen 7 different psychiatrists in the past 12 months (for a variety of reasons inc work for reports), who have all given the same diagnosis and suggested similar medications. I see a psych who doesn't prescribe but works on history and causes. You know in most Countries anti-psychotics are only prescribed during the psychotic episode. In Australia, they are prescribing them for long term use. I found it easy to accept all the diagnosis and just say, OK so I have this and that so that's why I feel this way. But there are other ways, and I think the first step is knowing your problems. By that I mean not the labels, but WHY you have the labels? I believe it's genetic or biological etc. It's genetic because of how you grew up. Did you know anxiety is contagious? Really it is. It's the only emotion that is. Stay in the house with an anxious person for a while and you will get anxious. Grow up with one, and you will have anxiety as an adult. It's evolutionary, keeps everyone safe in camp from the bears. Your past holds the key, trouble is sometimes its easier to say, I have x,y,z rather than facing the demon.

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MarkJT — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 06:48:33 GMT

Chris, out of interest, have you ever sat down with people that are the same or close to the same as you? I mean most people in this forum have one or more mental injuries or illnesses of varying kinds but we are all different in our own ways. Have some open & honest dialogue about what it is like to have so many labels and that a heap of different meds has not overly worked. You obviously have strong opinions on the subject and i think that you are well researched as well. To me that shows that although you have and are still going through some rough times, it will not define who you are which is awesome. I have found sitting down with crew that know what PTSD is like to be sometimes more beneficial than a psych session. Just a thought.

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white knight — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 07:15:25 GMT

Chris87,

Please allow me to question your self imposed theories.

Firstly you have seen 7 psychs and "all diagnosed similar or same diagnosis and similar medications". A combined wealth of psychiatric knowledge of about 140 years or more likely much more.

But then you went to another psych.

" I see a psych who doesn't prescribe but works on history and causes".

This is obviously been your preferred treatment. However what you are doing is advertising not to seek treatment in the traditional way. In using medications etc.

You talk like you know a lot about psychiatry but I'm worried that you think you know more than at least 7 psychiatrists and probably 90% of those now practicing.

I'm concerned that members here will be tempted to follow your lead and not obtain the psychiatric care they need.

Thats why community champions here, regardless of their experience in offering advice from their all round experiences, do not project to members other treatments other than traditional care eg "seek advice from your GP."

We are not trained in psychiatric care so we don't promote our knowledge as if we do.

As far as labels go there is a good reason for them. Illnesses are different.

Tony WK

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Cornstarch — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 07:30:28 GMT

I concur with you Chris, the diagnostic system is far from perfect and so are the treatments.

My childhood was swinging door of ongoing parental neglect and parental mental illness. When I was in year 11 and 12 my father was gone to a mental health unit for 9 months, and then when he got home, Mum was admitted to the same hospital, the hospital I spent my first born weeks in myself.

So I don't want to throw labels around & I agree the entire system is so frustrating, but from what you've described you're like me -

not PTSD on the rocks

but complex PTSD.

They are treated completely differently.

I can't see how you could possibly cope with such complexity without creating a healthy therapeutic relationship to clinical psychologist. I hope modern medicine also has something help you too, even if it just alleviates some of the worst symptoms.

Again, a very frustrating process to "shop around".

But it is worth it. Never let them go when you find them, even if you have to travel long distances.

Feel free to share more.

But totally understand that we don't always want to, and we are all very different personalities.

Take care.

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Kazzl — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 08:40:05 GMT

Hi Chris - here are some refereed journals you might like to look at on the role of brain chemistry and genetics regarding bipolar disorder. As I said, I know what my causes are.

Also, you say 'It's genetic because of how you grew up'. That's not my understanding of how genetics works. From what I understand genetics is what determines your physiology, what you're born with; 'how you grew up' is socio-environmental influence, what happens to you after you're born.

Anyways, here are the articles from psychiatry and genetics journals:

The underlying neurology of bipolar disorder, published in World Psychiatry, the journal of the World Psychiatry Association
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1525098/

Volumetric brain imaging findings in mood disorders, published in Bipolar Disorders, an international journal of psychiatry and neurosciences.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1034/j.1399-5618.2002.01157.x/full

Neuroanatomical abnormalities as risk factors for bipolar disorder, Bipolar Disorders http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1399-5618.2005.00238.x/full

Genetics of bipolar disorder, published in the Journal of Medical Genetics. http://jmg.bmj.com/content/36/8/585.short

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Cornstarch — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 08:49:47 GMT

I agree with Kaz,

Bi-polar 1, that is in my family, absolutely positively has strong genetic/familial links, threads, what-ever you want to call it. Of course, mental illness is confounding in the sense that scientists as still trying to figure out all of the variables and how they contribute to the onset of such terrible conditions.

Bi-polar II is the controversial one that scientists keep arguing about in medical journals because it can be mistaken for other things for many, many years and people are often mis-diagnosed.

I completely understand your frustration with "the system" Chris, but there isn't a sad story behind everyone's mental illness, it can be just plain old biology that we yet have answers for.

There's no sad story behind the schizophrenia in my family for the last 100 years that triggered it developing per se, but it is a very sad story once someone develops it.

Devastating in fact.

Good luck, and always welcome to vent your frustrations here.

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Kazzl — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 09:04:34 GMT

Thing is, I think everyone should learn about their conditions, so they can make informed choices and decisions about treatment, medications etc. That doesn't have to mean delving into academic journals (even though I do). But it does mean keeping an open mind, learning what you can, asking questions and, I think, being willing to accept that not all approaches fit all people with mental illness, and not choosing a theory because it's what you want to hear. And certainly not thinking you've found the answer for eveyone.

I researched bipolar when I was diagnosed because I wanted to know what caused it and I wanted there to be a simple treatment or cure. I wanted something to tell me that all I had to do was X and I'd be better. I learned that, as is the case for most mental health conditions, it's not that simple. There is no X. It's a complex jigsaw which, for me, has medication, talking therapy and self-care as the pieces, and even then they don't always fit perfectly.

That is not to say Chris that the approaches you advocate won't work or help people. But what you suggest is just one approach.

Regards

Kaz

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geoff — Sat, 24 Sep 2016 20:07:37 GMT

hi Chris, if antidepressants weren't able to help and control mental illness for anyone then why do the doctor's and psychiatrist's prescribe them, there are journals on 'chemical imbalance for mental disorder' that's what all the psych's learn about, and when you look at what has happened with you, then why do you feel negative and surely the mental neglect you experienced as a child must mean that you have an imbalance in the brain and was then starting to form this irregularity, and for you to see 7 psychiatrist's in 12 months surely must be telling you something that you didn't agree with any of them, because you had all the answers. Geoff.

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blondguy — Mon, 26 Sep 2016 16:05:38 GMT

Hi Chris...I have responded above with no judgement as per your existing mental illness

Chris'87 said: " I don't listen to diagnoses, and to be honest they are a load of... but only you can figure that out"

The forums are a safe and kind place to have your say and you are more than welcome to do so.

I think you would benefit from frequent ongoing therapy to assist your mental health issues.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain re your denial of your current mental illness.

Your thread is open if you have a question Chris

Paul